Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

The Commons: ‘Building costs for the water feature are $57,000′

by Aaron Wherry on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 6:55pm - 78 Comments

The Scene. Michael Ignatieff was quick to define the terms of this afternoon’s debate, referencing “ce faux lac” with his first available sentence. After the Prime Minister had shrugged a response—Mr. Harper perhaps aiming for non-chalance, but seeming rather to be barely awake—Mr. Ignatieff moved to expand the complaint.

“Mr. Speaker, what do fake lakes, gazebos and boats that do not float have to do with security?” he wondered aloud, shaking a loose fist at the government side. “The issue is not just the waste of money, it is that the summit promises to deliver so little on climate change, on women’s rights, on jobs and growth. This summit looks like a billion dollar speed bump on the road to the real summit which will be in Korea at the end of this year. How can the Prime Minister justify this expense for so little possible result?”

The Prime Minister nearly sighed his response. “Mr. Speaker,” he said, “this is a historic change of position for the Liberal party to be against a multi-lateral process such as this.”

In and of itself, this was maybe not much in the way of retort, but worse, it did not rhyme—a quality that would seem to explain why this fake lake has come, in a few days, to have surpassed so many other less rhythmically monikered matters of public policy.

Mr. Ignatieff tried again, this time appealing directly to the prose of novelty t-shirt sloganeers. “Canadians are asking simple questions like ‘we spent $1 billion and all we got was this lousy fake lake?’” he reported. “That is not the end of it. They are asking about the agenda. There is no progress on key issues. Many issues are not even on the agenda. Canadians wanted leadership and what they got was a fake lake. How does the Prime Minister explain this?”

The Prime Minister would explain this with the first of several variations on the proper language for describing this indoor waterway. ”The opposition is obviously throwing around a bunch of falsehoods,” he testified. “For instance yesterday they said there is a $2-million lake when in fact there is a $2-million marketing pavilion.”

Across the way, Liberals giggled.

“Mr. Speaker, now it is a marketing pavilion as if that changes anything,” mocked Mark Holland with the next opportunity.

Yesterday’s government response featured a half dozen ministers and the sight of Industry Minister Tony Clement standing and turning away from the opposition, as is his odd habit, to plead his case to his own government seatmates. Perhaps seeking consistency and reassurance this day, Mr. Clement was kept to his seat and Lawrence Cannon assigned to carry the day—the Foreign Affairs Minister armed with facts and bureaucratic language and a square jaw.

“Mr. Speaker, media are reporting widely, and obviously incorrectly, that the costs of apparently this artificial lake, which is a small part of the Experience Canada exhibit, is $1.9 million,” he explained with his first opportunity. “Through you, Mr. Speaker, to the colleagues, building costs for the water feature are $57,000.”

This—the sort of sentence that deserves to be on a plaque mounted to a wall somewhere on Parliament Hill—was greeted as some sort of game-changing revelation by the government side. But Mr. Holland had apparently prepared for this. “Mr. Speaker, even if it $57,000, that is more than the annual income of 40% of Canadian families,” he snapped. The Liberals stood to applaud.

“The fake lake and accessories, $2 million,” he continued, now listing the grievances. “Dancers, fiddlers and flowers, $20 million. A boat, $400,000. Distant gazebo and bathrooms, $300,000. An unlicensed security firm, and even a fake lighthouse. Now Toronto, too, gets something. Calling it their signature environmental initiative, the Conservatives are leaving a giant wall of plants—the cost of which they buried under the fake lake. What else are they hiding? How much more crazy does this thing get?”

Once again the Liberals stood to applaud.

Over then to Mr. Cannon, who sought here to summon something greater than all of us—something timeless and pure—to explain the water feature and the gazebos and the rustic toilets. ”We are using this opportunity to be able to showcase Canada. We are telling Canada’s story,” he proclaimed. “We are proud of what we have done. We are proud of what we are doing. We are proud of being able to promote Canada abroad, and we will continue to do it with this amount of money.”

In the reflecting pool then, we see ourselves. In that far-off toilet, we find our purpose. With each gazebo, we stand on guard for thee.

Strangely, this did not shame the opposition side. The questions persisted and though the Prime Minister would eventually be roused to wag his finger and proclaim his government’s righteousness and Mr. Cannon would continue to stand and declare things with something approaching certainty, the Liberals would spend much of their afternoon laughing.

The Stats. The G20, 15 questions. Parliament, five questions. The oil industry, three questions. Ethics, Israel, the military and aboriginal affairs, two questions each. Employment, Quebec, immigration, the Arctic, firearms, air safety and the environment, one question each.

Lawrence Cannon, 12 answers. Stephen Harper, eight answers. Christian Paradis, six answers. John Duncan, three answers. Pierre Poilievre and Peter MacKay, two answers each. Jason Kenney, Vic Toews, John Baird, Rob Nicholson and Mark Warawa, one answer each.

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  • Wallace Cleaver

    “For instance yesterday they said there is a $2-million lake when in fact there is a $2-million marketing pavilion.”

    And golf balls were small town cheap?

    A marketing pavillion. Is this why we host a meeting of the G20?

    MARKETING?

    Canada…not a country, just a dish soap…

  • Anon 001

    What about the vanishing fire hydrant? How can Dear Leader justify that?

    … the Liberals would spend much of their afternoon laughing …

    And yet, they still voted confidence in Harper by, for example, allowing the budget, Bill C-9, to pass. Maybe they're laughing at themselves too.

  • wilson

    Hollands Lady Gaga crack yesterday was hilarious.
    I miss Monte Solberg, he would come up with the funniest poetry.

    And when Ontario tourism booms because of the $57k water thingy,
    the media will clam up.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

      Will there be a shuttle bus between Niagara Falls and Toronto so that visitors can view both wonders of the world?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

        Sorry, that was what the boat was for.

  • E.B.

    If the Fake Lake fails to raise the ire of Canadians, look for 100 or so fake ridings for the Conservatives in the next election. That should guarantee a majority.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

    In the reflecting pool then, we see ourselves. In that far-off toilet, we find our purpose. With each gazebo, we stand on guard for thee.

    This made me chuckle.

    While I have no doubt that some examples of G8/G20 spending are wasteful, should we not at least consider the possibility that the "Experience Canada" pavilion may be a worthwhile expense?

    It's not too often that thousands of foreign journalists and dignitaries visit Canada, so maybe it's a good idea to show off a bit. Countries spend millions on glitzy Expo pavilions; perhaps the same principle applies here. The PR value could be worth it.

    • Wallace Cleaver

      Somehow, I'm not comforted that the aim of my government is PR value. Perhaps money would be better spent on REAL value?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

        I understand where you're coming from. On the other hand, Canada spent $45 million on our Shanghai Expo pavilion, and that's purely an international marketing exercise. Was this money wasted?

        Granted, Expo pavilions are up for six months, rather than three or four days, and they get thousands of visitors daily. But given the sheer numbers of foreign press, world leaders and dignitaries that will converge in Toronto later this month, perhaps it's not too extravagant to spend money on an exhibit that shows off Canada?

        • Wallace Cleaver

          I actually spent a lot of time at Expo 67 – as I was living nearby at the time.

          I don't remember any of the pavilions particularly, and although I spent a lot of time travelling the world over the next 40+ years, I'm pretty sure I never made a destination decision based on what I saw at an Expo pavillion.

          More to the point – why are these G20 confabs held? Isn't it in order to co-ordinate policies across the major economies? In what way do flash presentations to bored journalists actually accomplish this?

          I know that the 45 million on the Shanghai pavillion is only a buck or two per Canadian, but it's my experience that a buck here, a buck there, and pretty soon your credit limit is exceeded – q.v. the total household, federal and provincial l government debt at present. Said debt being deferred taxation, I'm planning to increase my savings rate. You?

        • Andre

          The way I see it the point of that expo is to confine the international press to a single room with a screen to showcase what the Government wants the media to see about Canada.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

      You do realize, right, CR, that the thousands of foreign journalists will be reminding their viewers of the serious economic woes they are in/about to be in, as this summit is meant to address? And you expect the viewers thoughts will be, "hmm, nice lake. Must book trip to Canada" ?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/sourstud sourstud

        You're right Jenn, everybody is living in constant fear that we'll be living a real life version of Road Warrior soon. And Michael Ignatieff will be Mel Gibson.

    • Lord Kitchener's Own

      I can see Anderson Cooper on CNN now:

      "Now, I've never been to this "Muskoka" place, but wow, they have this fake lake here in Toronto (it only goes up to my ankles and you can't take a canoe on it, but still…) it's this really cool fake lake surrounded by fake trees, and it has convinced me of what an amazing place Canada is, and that everyone should visit! I've never seen natural wonder reproduced so accurately, and I have to assume that their skillful reproduction is a clear indication that outside of these walls, they actually HAVE some real nature. If the outside of this country is HALF as cool as the inside, you'll be glad you made the trip. Apparently, the city of Toronto is a pretty amazing site too, but I haven't gone over to see the indoor mock-up of that yet. This is Anderson Cooper, reporting from Toronto.".

      • The Real Jan

        This is sounding more and more like a Stephen Colbert set. Wait until he gets wind of this.,

        • Patchouli

          Since they've already written the final communique regarding the outcome of the summit, perhaps indeed the journalists will just report the fake news from the fake lake.

          Surreal.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

        Heh. You could be right. The exhibit certainly seems vulnerable to Colbert-style parody, at least from the descriptions we've seen in the media.

      • Holly Stick

        So what are all those canoes for? Teaching foreign journalists how to make love in them?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/LaxAtlDfwYow LaxAtlDfwYow

      Sorry CR, there is just no excusing this sort of crap – regardless of whether it cost $2 or $2 Million.

      If you've ever worked in large organizations, you'll recognize the symptoms: simple tasks become huge sucks of time and money; in hindsight, it's not clear why a number of (now clearly stupid) choices were made; who decided what, when, is obscured by all the players; basic plans grow beyond recognition as everyone involved adds their own idea to the mix. As a consequence, spending runs wild.

      Diagnosis: no friggin management; no financial management. Prognosis: since we are seeing this pop up repeatedly with this government, likely a chronic condition. Not fatal but apt to cause visible scars.

  • LaxAtlDfwYow

    Come on Steve. Time to make some real money. Surely some wingnut think-tank in the U.S will put up some major bucks for you to drop everything and go their way. Or, how about the serious coin McKenna is pulling at TD? US banks… even bigger bucks! Do some Tea Party consulting on the side. They'll love ya. Come on Steve, doesn't Laureen deserve the big Polar Bear diamonds and the kids some real schooling at elite NYC or DC schools? You know they do. Time to go Steve. Time to take the big advance and finish the book. Finally time to give the family what they deserve, get what you know you deserve and leave us Canadians who are too stupid to understand why we need a Marketing Pavillion lake the hell alone. Please.

    Oh, and when you're gone I promise to vote for the new Con leader. Well except Stockwell, or Peter, or Tony or John or Jim or Jim or.. OK, I'll vote for Rona.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

    Just think of it as "stimulus", Mr. Holland, albeit a significantly cheaper one.

    • http://www2.macleans.ca/ Janice Rose

      A fake lake isn't very stimulating for me, or most people I think Gaunilon, even with canoes in it. Unless, of course, there's lots of wine and cheese to be had. Then, even fake lily pads would be nice.

  • Boogard

    "The issue is not just the waste of money, it is that the summit promises to deliver so little on climate change, on women’s rights, on jobs and growth."

    What an idiot. I mean just dirty stupid. It's not a climate change conference, nor is it a man-hating conference. It is a grownup conference about grownup issues, the world economy in particular. What Mr. Stuck In 1964 doesn't realize is that there are now more women in the workforce than men, and that women do in fact care about taxes and crime and the economy – those are women's issues.

    A woman has a right to know that if she is assaulted walking down the street her assailant will receive meaningful consequences for their crime rather than the hug-a-thug zero consequence policy that the Liberals push. Women have a right to know that their hard earned tax dollars aren't wasted, and that they are not perceived as perpetually unsatisfied grievance factories which would actually inhibit employers from hiring them.

    Climate change? Yesterday's bagels, the emperor has no clothes, le jeu est fin.

    Ignatieff should be focused on the beyond ridiculous cost of this summit, however he is handicapped by being leader of the "Grievance Party" and is compelled to soil the bed by whinging about "women's rights" and "climate change". Idiot. I swear this guy is a Conservative plant, nobody can possibly be this bad at politics.

    • Lord Kitchener's Own

      Wow.

      I think you're going to be really disappointed by how much time all the other leaders at the Summit spend talking about climate change, women's rights, jobs, and growth.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

        My guess: those other world leaders, being grownups, sound like the Charlie Brown teachers to the Conbots.

        Can't prove it, of course, but it explains a lot.

    • Stephen

      I think Ignatieff was talking about this story: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/06/04/summit-…

      Regarding the Conservatives "tough on crime" agenda, perhaps Canadians' tax dollars wouldn't be wasted, if the Conservatives didnt purposefully do nothing so they can keep the crime issue as a political football. Even though it should be pointed out that mandatory minimums do not act as a deterrent to crime.

      • Boogard

        Really? OK, let's make the penalty for rape (sexual assault) probation, I'll let you explain to feminists how that will make them safer. Hey, while we're at it let's not send people to jail for stealing cars, that should vastly deter car theft. We could half Toronto's murder rate by decriminalizing murder, if we are to believe your genius analysis.

        Clown. Of course meaningful consequences deter crime. And I invite you to read the criminal code of Canada and note for which crimes there exist mandatory minimums and report back to us, it will probably surprise you. Some things are open to debate, punishment as deterrent is not one of them.

        • LaxAtlDfwYow

          Hate to be so blunt, but you are just wrong and I think you know it.

          The very strong consensus among those who actually study crime and punishment is that increasingly harsh/long sentences/sanctions are not effective in reducing crime. Period. There is virtually no disagreement in the field. By the way, who exactly are you accusing of recommending no punishment whatsoever for crime?

          Now, one might still argue for tougher sentences on some other basis – say victims rights, or cross national equivalence or vengeance or even economics (although that last one is consistently shown to not to be a net benefit to society) – but your arguments so far are just raving.

          • Boogard

            The consensus was that Y2K would wreak havoc, the consensus was that climate changed was real, the consensus was that we needed to borrow billions to stimulate the economy, the consensus was that Enron was a well run company, etc., etc., in each case it was bunk. My arguments destroyed your little theory, of course rape and murder and theft would skyrocket if they did not draw prison sentences; I must insist you are a sociopath to suggest otherwise.

            Do you think Sven Robinson would have lifted a fifty thousand dollar diamond ring knowing that he would have gone to jail for a very long time? Or do you think – I ask rhetorically – that in the back of his mind he knew he could talk some nonsense about being abused and unwell if he got caught and get off scott free? Psychos like that are playing the public for fools and you are aiding, abetting, and colluding with them to suggest they not draw prison sentences for their serious crimes. You're the problem here, not the relatively and thankfully few hardcore criminals out there; they're just operating within the parameters we set for them.

            The idea that punishment is bad is limited to a small set of taxsucking nihilist radicals in a small set of countries which not coincidentally are failing badly, China would find it laughable. Violent crime is 4 times the rate is was in the 1960s, which is around the time the asocial asshats of academia started wanking about not punishing criminals.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/LaxAtlDfwYow LaxAtlDfwYow

            It's late, so let me just try to reduce your Y2K ignorance a bit. With respect to software, the software industry, and literally million of mission critical corporate and public infrastructure issues (just to name a few items) the threat posed by failure to address to the Y2K issue was enormous and very, very real. I know because I was at a software company whose customers literally spent 100s of millions over the 5+ years in the late 90s to ensure that Y2K-related failures did not damage their organizations.

            You make a common error by assuming that because none of the doomsday scenarios pushed by the media were realised, that there was no threat. Just a hunch, but I'd guess you don't think that of, say, the threat of terrorism in Canada, eh.

            Finally, who, exactly do you hear suggesting no punishments for crime? You keep repeating that. Who on the planet is suggesting that?

          • Orson Bean

            Interesting too, in this context, that Naomi Klein now retroactively assures us that Canada's debt and deficit crisis of the 1990s was entirely illusory, and was just a plot dreamed up by evil capitalists to impose budget cuts and further the neocon agenda, etc. etc. Of course, that's easy for her to say now, as we lived through the thing and survived (and most of us think that's only because of the harsh fiscal medicine imposed by Paul Martin & Co.). It'd be so interesting if there were a parallel universe out there which we could observe, in which we'd followed Ms. Klein's advice, done nothing about it and allowed our debt and deficits to rack up . . .

          • LaxAtlDfwYow

            Ms Klein has some interesting ideas but I hadn't heard that one yet. Sounds like Klein and our friend Boogard both like deliberately distorting or willfully ignoring facts that don't match their worldview. What's really frightening is that they are not alone. There are millions of "Boogard/Kleins" kicking around living and breathing cognitive dissonance every day.

          • Hollly Stick

            More likely Orson Bean is distorting something Klein might have talked about; since he did not bother to give a direct quote or link, and since he is a Conservative, therefore almost certainly a liar.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/sourstud sourstud

            I don't think Orson's a Conservative, and I'd still take his word over Naomi Klein's any day of the week.

          • Boogard

            "I know because I was at a software company"

            Oh, well, if a secretary at a software company says so, who am I to disagree?

            #include<stdio.h>

            main()
            {
            printf("Ignorant this, chump");

            }

            You have no idea who you're talking to, chump, so lose the attitude, m-kay?

          • Out There

            The vast majority of the scientific community believes that global warming is a real and threatening phenomenon.

            The vast majority of criminologists believe that tougher sentences do not deter crime. (No one is suggesting reducing sentences for violent crime – that is a straw man.)

            And the vast majority of people believe that women's rights – especially maternal health – are important.

            Oh, and your printf() statement should be terminated by a newline 'n' character. Just sayin'.

          • Out There

            that should be a backslash n newline character – the comments page eats backslashes

          • D.D.S

            are you a typical PC supporter??….because you sound nothing like the PC party folks I grew up with….and just reading the comments here and elsewhere makes me realize that this "new" PC Party is something I want NOTHING to do with….it reminds me WAY too much of the Republican party in the U.S.

        • Stephen

          I'm the clown? Where from my last post did you think that I was advocating de-establishing the justice system? I think if you spent little less time trying to write so sensationally, you might get more positive approvals of your comments instead of negative ones.

          And to a certain extent, I agree with you, meaningful consequences does deter crime. However, all that mandatory minimums do, from my perspective, is prohibit judges from being able to do their jobs effectively. I like to leave things in the hands of the professionals, let doctors heal, teachers teach, and judges dispense justice.

        • cooper

          stupid comment, why bother

      • Boogard

        From your link:

        "The draft, obtained by The Canadian Press, says the world's most powerful countries are prepared to throw money at "all factors" affecting the health of women and children…"

        Throw money indeed, nice to see Canadian Press use such honest language. Government to government aid does not work, that is well documented. Do these phallus holsters have something against men's health, I ask rhetorically? Straight expletiving misandry, this is.

        • burlivespipe

          If the party you so lustily you embrace wasn't toying with your pet peeve — trotting out 'tough-on-crime' spiels only to let them die on the order paper, in the senate, in the holding tank, by broken set-election date law, through multiple prorogation… As long as you keep foaming and writing those checks, they'll always give you a warm and fuzzy. Just don't choak on it.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/canon70 canon70

    Where are the fiscal conservatives when you need them?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

      You looking for Dimitri too?

    • Holly Stick

      Perished of embarrassment at the company they found themselves with.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/sourstud sourstud

      You mean Brian Mulroney?

  • Chantale

    Pretty sure the indoor lake is to deflect any disparaging comments about Canada and its thriving mosquito population.

    Yes, we're that self-conscious.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Dubh Dubh

    This extravaganza isn't to 'showcase' Canada (that shop window metaphor again), it's to showcase Harper. I wonder what he's running for now. He's obviously too good for us Canucks.

    • Holly Stick

      It's all part of his photo-op obsession.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Party_of_One Party_of_One

    You all know that the outcome of these conferences is pretty much predetermined, right? That various functionaries and minions are currently scuttling around working out which t's to cross and I's to dot? That the ENTIRE conference consists of photo shoots, that NOTHING of any relevance will be decided by the "leaders". ? You DO know that, right?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

    "…the Foreign Affairs Minister armed with facts and bureaucratic language and a square jaw."

    Not to mention his towering intellect, which is said to rival that of Ronna Ambrose or even Dean del Mastro.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Open_Democracy Open_Democracy

    It's nice to know that the Conservatives got their talking points in order today. Everyone must have been running scared last night what with the anticipation of the Boss being back in the House today. You've gotta look good when the teacher's in the room.

    Why can't the world's media use Lake Ontario as a backdrop? It's real and it's free!

    http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/

  • dave

    I think the big problem with the "Fake Lake" is that there's a real one 5 minutes walk from it.

    With real Islands, trees, and inlets for folks to paddle around in another short distance out.

    For a billion you'd think they could secure that land for a few days too to let people experience nature; especially since it's already largely parkland.

  • tedbetts

    The idea that we need to spend this amount of money for such a short period of time for an event viewed by so very few and not open to the public for an event that is more or less a giant photo op since all agreements have been worked out ahead of time causing so much disruption and loss of business… is absurd in ordinary times.

    In times of austerity when Harper has created the biggest deficit in our history and he is asking others to tighten their belts, this $1 billion plus luxury weekend for the political classes is way over the top and intolerably disconnected with the priorities of Canadians.

    And when that spending is on such absurdities as a fake lake and a jumbotron TV and a gazebo no one will see and a sidewalk to nowhere and other pork and waste, it approaches the intolerable.

    We did not spend this absurd amount of money on the Olympics, which we just had by the way, or at any of the hundreds of international fairs that get viewed by thousands and thousands and thousands of tourists who might be thinking about their next vacation and not a bunch of economic and political reporters who will report on the event and not the scenery.

    This is the wrong way to "showcase" Canada to the wrong people at the wrong time.

    • Andre

      There's a place in Saskatchewan that's in the process of converting their paper mill into an ethanol plant. To me that's a pretty good example of the new economy, and the way forward. Wouldn't that be a pretty good thing to showcase?

      With about half a billion you could build a massive conference center with multiple showcase rooms, mini shopping center, restaurant, bars, living quarters, etc in traditional Canadian architecture. A complex like that would see use in the future because Saskatchewan in about to see and oil and ethanol boom, attracting thousand of businesses.

      I'm pretty sure that the security costs for such an isolated town would only be about 500 million, especially since the G8 and G20 would happen in the same area.

      Voila, bigger impact, half the cost.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/LaxAtlDfwYow LaxAtlDfwYow

    And another thing…

    I lay the blame for this debacle and all the other out of control spending at the feet of Little Jim. Flaherty is the frickin' CFO of this government and it is his job to stop stupid spending before it happens. It doesn't matter if Harper wants a fake lake and a gazebo in Nowhereville or Tony wants to be a steamboat captain. It doesn't matter how may layers of bureaucratic deadwood exist between Jim and the spending. It's Flaherty's job to go to the mat to stop this stuff and ensure the controls are there to prevent it from happening in the bureaucratic bowels. The Finance Minister's FIRST responsibility is to the taxpayers. Not to Harper. Not to the CPC. Not even to his constituents. His primary responsibility is to the taxpayers. Period.

    If Flaherty is not up to the task, then he needs to stand aside. No significant organization with a wuss for a CFO performs to potential for shareholders. This government is becoming a fiscal farce.

    Flaherty's no fool. Well educated. Tough little hockey player. Time to show some of that toughness, Jim. Well past time, in fact. If you're not up to it, get the hell out of the way. The country – your employer – can't afford to let this continue.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

      Canada needs Paul Martin back in the post. I miss Paul so much these days.

    • Dave

      You expect far too much from a personal injury lawyer, which is what Wee Jimmie was in his life before politics. Regarding your other post, Steve and the rest of the cabinet had better pray some think-tank hires them, because no one else will. I cannot for the life of me remember a shallower talent pool than this cabinet. 40 unremarkable people with paper-thin resumes.

      • Holly Stick

        The talent pool is shallower than Fake Lake.

  • http://twitter.com/canadiandmbfan @canadiandmbfan

    Didn't we just spend billions of dollars a few months ago promoting ourselves at the winter olympics? I think we need to try to pay that bill off first before we waste more on a overprice puddle.

  • andycanuck

    So is Iggy going to make a pledge never to host any international meetings in Canada, or Olympic Games (sorry, Toronto), and that all visits by foreign dignitaries will have minimal budgets with frugality the number one priority when he forms a government? Why can't a visiting President Obama catch a cab from the airport? Especially if the money savings aids thousands of starving Canadian children.

    BTW, how much did the Vancouver APEC cost, including pepper spray and plates?

    • hosertohoosier

      I'm not sure about APEC, but Kananaskis ran about 300 million. However, that is because there were far fewer delegations. Since 2008 the costs of hosting the G8 summit have spiraled just as the importance of the G8 has increased.

  • chet

    An honest assessment of this whole affair would be to compare the costs to other international events in other countries and our previous ones.

    Of course an honest assessment wouldn't involve the media parroting false claims of millions spent on a fake lake.

    The 105th prorogation was an earth shattering blow to our democracy…the previous 104, not so much. Now the umpteenth international conference is suddenly a scandelous frivolty.

    The pettiness of the opposition and the willingness of their leftist patrons in the media to go along with it, is staggering.

    All the while, Harper leads our country to the top of the economic pack and moves towards a majority government.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/doug_rogers doug_rogers

      Speaking of parrots… "Point of order!, Point of order!"

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

        Actually if Baird would have thrown in a few "awwks", it would have at least been memorable theatre.

    • D.D.S

      the last G8 cost the host country 40 million…………Harper is spending 1.1 billion ON SECURITY ALONE and they weren't even licsensed to operate in Ontario!……..

  • Lizz

    It is all so tacky. Not cheap – just tacky.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/sourstud sourstud

    To keep this in perspective: The $57,000 "fake lake" could be paid off in less than 3 years with the money that Judy Sgro's been defrauding taxpayers with her little mortgage scheme.

    • D.D.S

      I am surprised you didn't fit Adscam in there somewhere………you do realize that "it's the Liberals fault" is getting awfully tiresome and losing it's power to induce fear………..right?……who is the PM right now!!…….

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/sourstud sourstud

        It is also significantly less than what the Liberals stole during AdScam. Thanks for the reminder DDS. There's also the significant difference that the media center will promote Canada, while Liberal boondoggles always involve them enriching themselves and their friends. There's a big difference between spending money poorly, and stealing it out-right.

        • Dave

          Pacific Scandal Pacific Scandal Pacific Scandal

          There, I feel better.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

      Apparently you are not aware of the two sets of rules.

      Pablo, Judy, Derek are Liberals.

      Perhaps the CBC send a news crew, book a flight, interview a private detective to add more flavour to this inappropriate use $ 57k in the tourism pavillon.

      Kudos to the Peter crying wolf mob, they are consistent.

  • hosertohoosier

    Hosting the G-8 and G-20 gives Canada the ability to set the agenda on a discussion of global regulations with trillion dollar implications, and of issues (like the maternal health initiative) with billion dollar price tags. At the same time, vast numbers of delegations will be in Canada, creating a fertile environment for private and public deal-making, potentially worth billions in trade and investment. Moreover, the value of the coverage associated with hosting a summit like this is estimated to be in the hundreds of millions (at least according to the Gleneagles report). We are also saving hundreds of millions of dollars by hosting two major summits concurrently as opposed to separately, although there appear to be some cost overruns.

    But of course, the real issue is a $57,000 fake lake. Perhaps the Liberals believe we should host visiting delegations in church basements, have KFC cater dinners, and ensure security by issuing whistles to delegates. Sometimes the lack of perspective exhibited by my fellow Canadians amazes me.

    • soitgoes

      Getting a little dizzy here…

    • ex canuck

      It is not your fellow Canadians who lack perspective; it is the Liberal opposition and their woeful attempts to find an issue of substance. Canadians should weep.

    • D.D.S

      the last g8 cost the host country 40 mill..Harper is spending 1.1 billion…..my "perspective' is JUST fine thank you very much

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Geiseric Geiseric

    no

    really

    my wife did none of the shopping

  • Holly Stick

    Join the facebook crusade to save Fake Lake!
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12593375077…

    "…Fake Lake must not be drained – future generations have the right to know."
    http://stageleft.blogspot.com/2010/06/save-fake-l…

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