Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Meanwhile, in mysterious Ottawa

by Aaron Wherry on Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:35pm - 59 Comments

While the premiers of Saskatchewan, British Columbia, Ontario and Nova Scotia are unimpressed with the head of CSIS, the Liberals want the national security committee recalled to investigate Richard Fadden’s claims and the NDP’s Olivia Chow is demanding answers. For good measure, sources now tell the CBC that the Prime Minister’s Office was aware of Mr. Fadden’s general concerns and the Prime Minister is himself concerned.

Sources tell the CBC the PCO was well aware of those concerns, even if it hadn’t been told the details of who was involved … A source suggested the prime minister was personally aware of the issue of foreign agents trying to win influence over politicans and bureaucrats — even if he didn’t know the details. ”The prime minister is strongly of a view that this is a problem,” a source said.

The source said Harper has an appetite for intelligence beyond that of his predecessors. Intelligence briefers now routinely provide the prime minister with detailed written reports, in addition to their regular verbal briefings.

The CBC’s Brian Stewart also attempts to clear up several misconceptions about the network’s reporting here.

Tags: Brad Wall, Brian Stewart, Dalton McGuinty, Darrell Dexter, Gordon Campbell, Olivia Chow, prime minister's office, Richard Fadden

More by Aaron Wherry

Emily

Honest ta Pete….Cons couldn't organize a binge in a brewery!

Cats

Lol Harper Hater Emily !

I love how the actions of a non-partisan official who's largely outside of politics and indeed outside of government somewhat is now considered a conservative.

Cats loves how hard you guys are working to make this somehow reflect poorly on the PM, because heavens knows EVERYTHING reflects poorly on him ! LOLZS

Mouse

He only has to blame himself and the chorus around him for this ……
perplexed

Do you really think, the Head of CSIS, would have gone public with this kind of information if his suspicions were taken seriously by the PMO?
Of course it reflects poorly on the PMO!!! Who is the boss? Where does the buck stop? Your leader has made it perfectly clear where he thinks it stops by making sure no one lower than a Minister answers for everything!
You cna't have your cake and eat it too, folks

Herbert

it turns out that he was right and Chow was wwrong. The culprits are the Russians and not our buddies in China. LOL

jacob

Man, cant the PMO do anything right? This could have totally been played to Harpers advantage. They have been a disaster since Giorno came on board.

Anon 001

Norman Spector has turned into quite an embarrassment, hasn't he? Perhaps, the CBC should have kept him on the payroll :-)
http://intensedebate.com/people/LaxAtlDfwYow LaxAtlDfwYow

This isn't a case of a senior bureaucrat suddenly loosing his mind and control over his mouth. This is likely a case where Fadden felt that despite significant "proper channel" efforts supplemented by a speech to group of security elites, the PCO was still ignoring or inordinately downplaying his concerns. He probably concluded his only hope of getting action was to effectively go public.

The real question is why would the PCO ignore a national security issue brought forth by the head of CSIS? Political risk for the government, perhaps? I think the answer will be clear when we find out who the foreign player is.

Anon 001

I'll second this. Richard Fadden has spent his entire career in the civil service rising to the position he holds now. Professional civil servants who rise this far tend to be (a) careful, (b) cautious, and (c) tough. He knew what he was saying, and probably has a lengthy paper trail to back it up.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

"This is likely a case where Fadden felt that despite significant "proper channel" efforts supplemented by a speech to group of security elites, the PCO was still ignoring or inordinately downplaying his concerns. He probably concluded his only hope of getting action was to effectively go public."

THAT is not his place!! Understand the implications of what you are saying.

You want the head of CSIS to bypass our heads of state and use the media to make blanket accusations of treason against citizens without any evidence? Do you understand that any public servant of chinese/indian/middle eastern descent is now under a cloud of suspicion because Fadden couldn't be bothered with due process?

We live in a democracy, not a police state! This here ought not to be tolerated in this country. Fadden had no right to do what he did and he must be brought to account for it.

http://intensedebate.com/people/LaxAtlDfwYow LaxAtlDfwYow

So a simple hypothetical: if the head of CSIS finds evidence that senior federal cabinet ministers are in thrall to foreign powers and the PCO stymies his ability to get action from the PM, CSIS should just walk away?

That's not what I want from my national security guys. I want tenacity within the law. I don't want limp acquiescence to politics in security matters.

(BTW, our Head of State is the Queen.)

http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

So a simple hypothetical: if the head of CSIS finds evidence that senior federal cabinet ministers are in thrall to foreign powers and the PCO stymies his ability to get action from the PM, CSIS should just walk away?“

Question to you: If the head of CSIS had evidence that a senior federal cabinet minister was guilty of spying for foreign interest, do you think that he would need Peter Mansbrige to bring him or her to account?

http://intensedebate.com/people/LaxAtlDfwYow LaxAtlDfwYow

You didn't answer my question.

Look, I'm simply suggesting that Fadden hasn't lost his mind. He made a deliberate choice in all likelihood with a pretty good idea of the potential consequences – for him and for others – of that choice. He's a bureaucrat, not a frickin' artist or rock star. He thought this thru. I've no doubt that he had a damn good reason for doing what he did. You may not like it and want to punish him. Ok. All I'm suggesting is that it would probably serve the nation to understand what he is concerned about and why the PCO appears to have ignored him rahter than leaping immediately to beat the sh– out of him.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

Yes I did answer your question.

And no, I don`t think that Fadden has lost his mind. I think that this man forgot his place. I think that Fadden was reckless in doing what he did and may very well have jeapordized ongoing investigations by making blanket accusations against people of foreign descent.

If I wanted live in a country where this kind of McCarthyism was permitted and encouraged, I`d move to China, the country Fadden seems to want to protect us from.
MostlyCivil

"If I wanted live in a country where this kind of McCarthyism "

Now, to be fair, that's not the best comparison. It's quite well documented that Senator McCarthy had no actual proof, nor did he ever approach his higher-ups or his president to discuss his allegations. That said, I see your point, but I also don't see how the two of you really disagree in that you both understand he went beyond his normal chain of command and is likely (deservingly or not) to be punished for doing so.

Mr. Fadden made a decision, and the chips will fall where they may.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dubh Dubh

Interesting that no one thinks of Israel.

Anon 001

Israel is not really a consequential power.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dubh Dubh

It is domestically, in terms of votes and campaign contributions.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

I agree to a point. Fadden has seriously damaged himself, his office, CSIS and any real investigation that may be ongoing.

However, as a starting point, I absolutely agree that civil servants at whatever level should keep their mouths shut in public, but at a certain point if the government is ignoring them or blocking them from fulfilling their mandate, especially if it is a legislated mandate (i.e. beyond the powers of the PM unless he enacts different laws), then there is a line.

Having said that, when it comes to the kind of accusations he makes – which, without details impugns a heck of a lot of innocents let alone the race issue – this does go too far and he should be gone.

This thing is just plain weird. There seems to be a heck of a lot that we don't know.

http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

tedbetts, Fadden isn't a whistleblower. He fingered a specific group of Canadians of foreign descent and accused them of extremely serious crimes and produced no proof. Within 48 hours, he backpeddled, leaving everyone to wonder who among us is guilty of treason. Next thing you know, Olivia Chow is fingered. Who's next?

Do you not see how dangerous and reckless this is?

http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

"Do you not see how dangerous and reckless this is?"

And I quote, from the comment not more than 5 cm above your comment: "Fadden has seriously damaged himself, his office, CSIS and any real investigation that may be ongoing. [...]when it comes to the kind of accusations he makes – which, without details impugns a heck of a lot of innocents let alone the race issue – this does go too far and he should be gone. "
Dubh

They don't have to be of foreign descent. And race isn't necessarily an issue.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

Perhaps you didn't pay attention to his words in the interview. He specifically referred to politicians going on junkets to their "homeland."
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dubh Dubh

Missed that. Thanks.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

tedbetts……I agree with you. This whole thing is weird. I suspect the PM is being quiet until he gets the G8 and G20 meetings over with. We have the President of China on a state visit and at the meetings. The diplomatic thing to do is delay until all the leaders have left the country.

The accusations against China are not knew. If Fadden was trying to get a message out he did it clumsily. The other option if he felt the issue was not being taken seriously and he felt it was a priority is to resign.

I suspect we will hear more about this next week. However, impuning politicians and immigrant citizens is not very smart no matter the motive.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

Quite right, the head of CSIS cannot just go on TV and make vague, blanket accusations against an entire class of people (provincial cabinet ministers) without any evidence, any names, any justification. Imagine if the Governor of the Bank of Canada did something similar!

Then again, Fadden can't have done it by accident. I am surely scratching my head, because our airport buddy has a possible motivation, but even then I can't see what good comes of it. I don't really see what the PMO or PCO has to do with it. I mean, must it only be the PM that can tell a Premier to watch his back? Either you have evidence, in which case you charge whomever, or you don't and you secretly watch him like a hawk. The secretly is important in that scenario, so the last thing you'd do is go on National TV and tell him you're watching. Or is it? Is it at all conceivable that Fadden has reason to believe this person/these people are about to disclose something that would affect our national security, and is trying to prevent that from happening in spite of not having the evidence beforehand?
LaxAtlDfwYow

If it's a police state you are concerned about, you best worry about the politicians instead of the bureaucrats:

TorStar

http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

“The real question is why would the PCO ignore a national security issue brought forth by the head of CSIS? Political risk for the government, perhaps? I think the answer will be clear when we find out who the foreign player is. “

Cue the McCarthy hearings…

http://intensedebate.com/people/LaxAtlDfwYow LaxAtlDfwYow

Neither of us know exactly why Fadden acted. Based on who he is and his service to the nation, I think we should at least listen to him. You want to effectively execute him. Who's more McCarthy-like?

PolJunkie

Execute him? Exxagerate a little?

As for listening to him, wasn't that the point of his two-day interview with the National? I don't know why he acted. I only know that he chose to do it in the most reckless way possible.

I'm not sure why you have so much faith in this man. Perhaps you know personally. I don't. I'm responding to his actions and those actions are exactly like that of McCarthy. It has already begun. Olivia Chow is the first one on the list.

Who's next?

http://intensedebate.com/people/LaxAtlDfwYow LaxAtlDfwYow

Olivia Chow was tarred by some talk radio guy, not by Fadden. Fadden mentioned provincial ministers and municipal officials. Ms. Chow is neither.
PolJunkie

Exactly! THis is the frenzy that his irresponsible interview has created. He didn't give any names. He just made blanket statements about foreign-borned individuals. That has, in effect, cast a doubt on all of them.

People like Chow are the logical next target. WHy would foreign interest only be focusing on provincial and municipal govts when the key policies that deal with foreign affairs are dealt with at the federal level?

This is the hysteria that this kind of interview will create. Mind you, we don't even know if he has any proof.

In fact, you clearly don't need him to give you proof. You are ready to take him at his word.
hollinm

I don't have much use for Olivia Chow and her politics but the fact that this radio guy would identify her without any evidence apparently is despicable. How does she defend herself herself against this kind of thing? The mud has been thrown and now she has to wear it unfortunately.

Perhaps the kangaroos need to come to back from their vacation and conduct another kangaroo court so that we can see how ineffective they are. Do you think Fadden is going to blab before a committee? He is going to sight national security interests and refuse to talk.

The PM needs to make a statement about what he and his government know about this stuff and put it to bed. Either there is evidence or there is only suspicion. We do not act on suspicion. We need hard evidence. Speculating publicly about whether China or some other country is spying on us or has bribed some of our politicians is not the way to conduct intelligence.

Fadden is an experienced civil servant and as previously stated this whole thing is weird. Loose lips sink ships and Fadden is well aware of this.

http://intensedebate.com/people/BGLong BGLong

Gee, if all this Agent 99 stuff wasn't happening, this might be a lot fun with the media-friendly Mr. Moore….
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/06/23/cop…

http://intensedebate.com/people/BGLong BGLong

And to add to the intrigue …

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/

http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP Phil

If the general public ever gets access to "the rest of the story" (and I'm sure there is a lot more to the story), it should make for very interesting reading.
Mike T.

I'm wondering if he just feels some MPs aren't in lockstep with the foreign policy his office would like, he made some ridiculous comments about their motivations which he then had to backpedal from when he realized what he'd done.

It's just as likely as anything else at this point.
Wascally Wabbit

Brian Topp is having a field day with this in the Globe this morning.
And – why is no-one (especially the Liberals – heck they can't get their talking points lined up this week) linking Fadden's name with that of Richard Colvin…similar situations perhaps – senior government types ideologically disinclined to listen to sound professional advice from senior bureaucrats?

http://intensedebate.com/people/ChrisWPG ChrisWPG

Hey Wabbit,
I know it's pretty early but can you expound on your link between Colvin and Fadden? Colvin was a diplomat who took his information to a government committee and reported what he saw, while Fadden made veiled accusations on national tv. IMHO Colvin is a hero for doing the right thing while Fadden is a twit for jeopardizing our foreign relationships with China while they were en route to Canada. If Fadden felt his concerns were not being taken seriously he should have taken it up the chain of command and if there was no response then gone through the proper channels under the whistle blower act.
On the other hand the National on CBC is looking more like the Enquirer. They claim it took a year to complete the article but one has to question the integrity of the reporter when 1 day after the story breaks it crumbles.

Richard

I agree with you about the National. Completely downhill. This story is almost as bad as Wendy Mesley's piece about the –ahem– merger. Although at least in this instance the CBC had a credible source on camera.

PolJunkie

I'm glad you brought Colvin up, Wabbit.

Colvin handled the release of this sensitive info the responsible way. He went to a govt committee and provided clear information on what he saw and heard. He gave names, times and places.

Fadden, on the other hand, tarred all foreign borned civil servants with the most egregious accusation one can ever make against a person in such a position. He provided no names other than to make it clear that they are immigrants and, to make matters worse, backpeddled the next day with an even more nebulous media statement. Within 48 hours of his interview, the MSM started to point fingers are some of these civil servants, namely Olivia Chow.

Similar situation? I think not.

Cracking-wise

How long before someone calls Richard Fadden anti-Semetic?

You cannot insinuate about Isreal like that and expect to get away with it.
IhearYou

Irwin Colter's kids joined the IDF.

Richard

No Canadian citizen should be permitted to serve in a foreign army.

I mean, if we're going to prohibit people from taking up symbolic titles in another country, then we should similarly prohibit taking up arms as well.

http://intensedebate.com/people/LynnTO LynnTO

I'm fairly certain that's not practical. If you grow up in many foreign states, military service, at least for a time, is compulsory.

To then say that those who have served cannot be citizens of Canada once they move here, jump through our immigration hoops of fire, and pass a citizenship test and take an oath doesn't make much sense.

Also, what of our soldiers who are seconded to the USAF on missions (in the Middle East, comes first to mind?)

http://intensedebate.com/people/ChrisWPG ChrisWPG

Lynn,
A little comprehension goes a long way. Richard didn't say that if you had served you couldn't become a Canadian, he said if you were Canadian you shouldn't serve in a foreign army.
It's early, all is forgiven : )

Richard

Precisely. And Canadian soldiers who are seconded are still Canadian soldiers. I have no issue with that.

I take issue with the hypocrisy of stripping one's citizenship for accepting an overseas peerage, but turning a blind eye to citizens who serve in other countries' armies.
wsam

Does it make it better if they are fighting Arabs?

http://intensedebate.com/people/NoNameCS NoNameCS

Clearly, this government is unable to manage its relationships with its senior bureaucrats.

That's what happens, I guess, when Cabinet and the PM are more attuned to populist politics than managing a large government.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

Wark is on point, as always, in his column printed in today's Ottawa Citizen.
wsam

Maybe Fadden is talking about the new gang at Rights & Democracy? Ariel Braun et al …
dcraig

Olivia Chow is demanding… the NDP are demanding..the libs are demanding…. in all these cases demanding is an adjective not a verb.
Adam

Olivia Chow doth protest too much. Both her and hubby are solidly in the thrall of Chinese expat voters, including those with business ties to the homeland.

The Layton-era NDP totally dumped its 'Blue Socialist' (socially-conservative, social-democratic), working-class and farmer base in favour of ethnic and urban business voters, a la New Labour. Proof is in the NDP's complete silence over the massive outsourcing of Canadian jobs to Chinese workers, even on Canadian soil:
http://www.bclocalnews.com/vancouver_island_south…

All the NDP like to talk about is the red herring of the Canada-Colombia free trade deal–China never gets a mention. Nor does the NDP like to dwell on the PRC's miserable human rights record, brutal racism and colonialism against the Uighurs, Mongols and Tibetans, or the torrent of dangerous goods that Canada allows into the country (lead-contaminated toys, melamine-tainted food), even as the Chinese have the gall to ban our 'unsafe' beef. Chow Chow and Jack Russel are, for all intents and purposes, business lobbyists for the PRC, in Parliament.

old fogey

Right on Bro. one might add the mp from Winnipeg who gets up during statements by members in parliament and supports Israel for any crime or atrocity committed against its neighbors.If new Canadians (serving as elected m.p's )are so concerned about what is happening in the country they came from, go back and correct it. You are here to serve CANADA ,not your former homeland.
Herbert

We all know now that it was the undemocratic republic of Russia who had the spies. We all know too from previous revelations that China is up to their necks in to this sh*t too. i wouldn't be surprised if the USA was into it here as well.

peter

google "sidewinder report" +csis…the problem is neither new nor resolved. I wonder if fadden will suffer a similar fate to the front-line officers who tried to go public during Chretien's reign?
wsam

Didn't that right wingnut, the old MP from Wild Rose in Alberta, Maurice or something, he always wore a cowboy hat, didn't his son serve in the US Marines?

How many Canadian politicians have had relatives serving in the British Army?

The fact is Canada is a country of immigrants. Many people are going to be just as attached to their homeland as they are to Canada, or more so. It's a fact of life here.

Serving or loving causes pertinent to countries other than Canada, such as Isreal, or Ireland, Scotland, we find acceptable.

And some we don't, like supporting the Tamil Tigers, or Somalian Islamic causes, etc …
http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP Phil

FYI, Myron Thompson was the Reform MP with the stetson.
wsam

Thanks.