Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

In pieces

by Aaron Wherry on Saturday, June 26, 2010 4:26pm - 33 Comments

The fire was apparently a police car. Our Stephanie Findlay has photos. Retail stores, banks and a least one strip club have reportedly also been attacked. Via Twitter, the NDP’s Olivia Chow condemns.

Hope the pp using violence #G20 would be arrested as they are hijacking thousands of peaceful pp, esp women/children.

Black Bloc pp have nothing in common with the peaceful rally. All they are doing is to justify huge security spending.

Tags: G20, G20 policing, G8, Olivia Chow, protest, Toronto

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http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Completely agree with Olivia Chow. With every window that gets smashed and every police car that gets torched, the Black Bloc is helping to justify the massive police presence at the G20.
Cats

The "Fake Lake" story has already been debunked and the security costs proven worthwhile.

Marky Mark's criticism of the event has now fallen flat. Can't wait for Mr. Alexander to take his seat in the next election.

Cats would love to hear Harper Hating Emily's opinion or Hardcore Liberal Partisan Ted Bett's views though!

Mike T.

Except that we already know the exact same level of security could have been provided for much cheaper, we don't know if spending less would have made any difference, and we don't know if increased police presence itself acted as a goad to the violence.

Just because some scary things are going on doesn't mean we should desert thoughtful analysis.

TedTylerEzro

I'd say the last argument, "increased police presence was a goad to violence" doesn't exactly help the protester's case, given that there doesn't seem to have been any police provocation.

Mike T.

We have no idea what happened and rushing to judgment is foolish. And whether people approve of their "case" or not, the issue was the bottom line of the costs involved.

Cats

Disgusting.

Mike T. everybody! Disgusting. You just endorsed the disgusting action of the protesters and the violence they committed with your disgusting attacks on the police.

They provoked this ?? Really ? That's beyond the pale.

The bottom line is not costs actually, the bottom line is the safety and well being of Canadians who have been put at risk by the disgusting protesters you just endorsed.

Cats finds your objections to the 1 billion spent on security to be outrageous.
Mike T.

I suggest you read your original comment and those following it once more.
Cats

I suggest you do the same and retract your miserable sentiments.

Have a mice day! Best fishes!

Dave

“pp”?
embee

My feelings from the beginning were that the problems inherent in holding the Summit in the down town core of a city outweighed any advantages. Seeing the 'thugs' doing their thuggery confirmed my view — until someone with a weirder brain than mine pointed out that if the Summit had been held at a military base or elsewhere that allowed for easier crowd control, that a group would still no doubt be thugging around in downtown Toronto because it really isn't the Summit that is the focus, but the media attention available due to the Summit.

My sympathies to the issue groups whose message(s) are lost in the violence.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

Yeah, no. My sympathies to the issue groups who have issues. Protesting at a big event because a bunch of media are in town doesn't get out your message–at least I've never seen anything other than "the protestors" which really doesn't highlight the social issues of concern. In fact, if your group is known to be protesting along with the thugs, your credibility suffers. Why not pick a day when nothing is going on, and cause reporters to come specifically to find out what you're upset about. That way, the thugs might not know about it until it is too late.

I see no value in "As protesters marched dowtown, some broke off from the group, destroying a police cruiser, smashing bank windows and ripping mailboxes from the sidewalk." All we can take from that is that all these protestors don't like police cruisers, bank windows or mailboxes. Does nobody care about children anymore? Aboriginal rights? Social justice? Because I'm not hearing anything about it.

TedTylerEzro

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Most of the crowd is organized by professional people. If they really wanted to, they could simply come up with some plans to organize the protesters that would exclude the few troublemakers from their crowd.

I may be overly cynical here, but I have the feeling that they don't mind the troublesome few among their group as much as they claim.
http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

Jenn,

I agree with you completely. I have no issue with demonstrations by those who wish to highlight their issues. It is part of our democracy. But protests for protests sake are just silly and provide cover for anarchists.

Out There

My sympathies to all of the peaceful protesters whose agenda was ruined by the few intent on causing damage.

And kudos to the Toronto police, who by all accounts have handled the situation well.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Party_of_One Party_of_One

Just heard Mansbridge discussing the attack on CBC vehicle with a reporter in the field.

"Shock" and "outrage" on CBC's part are misplaced, IMO. The ONLY reason people are there is to publicize their cause. The CBC (and all other outlets) always have the option of NOT covering the "protests". Of course then, in the interest of "balance", they shouldn't cover the G8/G20 summits, either.

That, btw, wouldn't be a big loss; there really isn't any NEWS being made here, it's all a foregone conclusion, and everyone is just playing out their roles.
jarrid

Don't give media coverage to these professional protesters. The only reason they're there is because of the media presence.

This stuff is all to predictable. And really, really boring. Burning police cars will help your cause, right.

Just say no to the leftist thugs, and give them some serious jail time. Their antics are costing us too much money in terms of beefed-up security.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

I'm slow on this kind of thing, but I presume professional protestors get paid. So I presume someone is paying them. So I presume someone is paying them in order to get a result of some kind. So, what result is this mysterious someone looking for? Is that result being realized?

Because I'm simply not seeing any result worth any amount of money. For both the peaceful protestors with legitimate grievances, and the anarchists whose sole purpose appears to be to increase the amount of government in order to bitterly complain about having to be governed. Okay, I personally think the latter group are crackpots, but if they are paid to be crackpots, they're not the crazy ones, its the guy with the money.

http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

How sexist of you to suggest that the individual with the money must be a guy.

;)

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

How sexist of YOU to assume that the generic term 'guy' means a male.

:) :) I'd wink too, but I don't want you to think I'm a floozie.

http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

How (post-post-post?)post-modern of you to suggest that the word "guy" does not imply male.

And before I venture into very dangerous territory, perhaps you could enlighten me as to the potential gender neutrality of the term floozie…?
http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

I gave it to you as a gift. Because there's nothing gender neutral about it. And while it's fine for you to wink at me, I get a reputation for winking back.

Just so you'd know that my post-modern use of "guy" does not mean I don't live in the real world!

jarrid

Oh, and more thing. Does anyone now doubt that the police have to be given the necessary means to deal with these leftist hooligans?

The democratically elected leaders of the G-8 and G-20 countries deserve media coverage since they represent their nations and are meeting to solve major issues facing the world economy. The wannabe media-driven protesters meanwhile just want to get attention and will go to extraodinary lenghts to do so. They should not be given the time of day. Whether or not they're violent. And then their numbers will dwindle because no one will be there to notice their adolescent attention-seeking antics.

Mike T.

This is how it starts….
http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

The democratically elected leaders of the G-8 and G-20 countries…

Jarrid, how did you kick China and Saudi Arabia out of the G-20?
Out There

Saying that "leftists" are responsible for the property damage in Toronto is like saying that Muslims were responsible for 9-11.

TedTylerEzro

I think that's apt. Of course, I doubt if we agree about what that means.
jarrid

Ahem, good point there MYL.

Let me rephrase that – "the leaders of the G-8 and G-20 countries".
jarrid

The protesters are by and large leftist groups. One thing about the left, they sure love their political protests. I think it makes them feel alive or something.
Gary

Are you trying to say that the pilots of the aircraft that "landed" in the Twin Towers/Pentagon were NOT adherents of the Muslim faith??? They certainly were NOT Swedish Christians!
Likewise with all the Union placards at the protests, I fail to see how most people present were NOT of the leftist persuasion.

madeyoulook

Ted, don't you get it? To these morons, the mere presence of police is a capitalist-pig provocation, and justification for the use of this old glass bottle, gasoline, handkerchief and lighter that such-and-such social-justice peace-loving agent of progressive change just happened to have in his hemp backpack. And they'll be only too pleased to feed this bit of wisdom to any media type willing to swallow it.
madeyoulook

Thanks, Olivia. No need to give a damn about those peaceful men, eh?

Seriously, is it even possible for an allegedly gender-equality-loving Dipper to omit the cursed "especially women and children" garbage?
Anon 001

a least one strip club

Was Rahim or Helena in it at the time?
http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

I'm sorry but property damage, however reprehensible does not constitute "violence." Violence is damage to persons, violence is coercion, violence is putting people in real danger, not breaking windows, no matter how often the property owners, media, and police say it.