Where 'nice' Obama has got us

MARK STEYN: Why would Ahmadinejad take him seriously when even Karzai flips him the finger?

by Mark Steyn on Thursday, July 1, 2010 8:00am - 368 Comments

ATTA KENARE/AFP/Getty Images

In 1939, Capt. Peter Sanders, serving with the Tochi scouts on the Afghan-Indian border, was blown up by a Waziri booby trap and lost his right arm. Shortly afterwards, he accepted an invitation to lunch from the tribesman who’d planted the bomb. Awfully decent of the chap, and not a bad spread, all things considered.

Not everyone cares for the old stiff upper lip: “I spit on your British phlegm!” as the Khazi of Kalabar remarked in what remains the seminal work on Afghanistan, Carry on up the Khyber. But imperialism requires a certain dotty élan. Without it, it’s no fun. You’re just a guy holed up in a Third World dump occasionally venturing out in the full RoboCop to pretend to implement some half-assed multilateral “nation-building” strategy that NATO defence ministers all agreed to at some black-tie banquet in Brussels and then promptly forgot about. Instead of the Tochi scouts—Pathan irregulars commanded by British officers—we now have Afghan units “trained,” or at any rate funded, by Western governments. A headline in the Washington Post captures the general malaise: “Afghan forces’ apathy starts to wear on U.S. platoon in Kandahar.” On a recent patrol through the city, 1st Lieut. James Rathmann stopped at a police checkpoint and found them all asleep in a nearby field.

It’s not just the natives who are dozing. In London recently, Robert Gates, the U.S. defence secretary, complained that the allies’ promised 450 “trainers” for the expanded Afghan National Army had failed to materialize. These are not combat roles, so in theory even the less gung-ho NATO members should have no objection. Supposedly, 46 nations are contributing to the allied effort in Afghanistan, so that would work out at 10 “trainers” per country. Yet even that modest commitment is too much. So the Afghan army will fill up with time-servers and Taliban sympathizers.

Colonial administration was always a cynic’s field. In Lisbon last week, I was admiring the beauty of the jacarandas when David Pryce-Jones, the scholar and novelist, reminded me of the words of Lord Lloyd, British high commissioner in Egypt in the twenties: “The jacarandas are in bloom,” he observed. “We shall soon be sending for the gunboats.” When the weather heats up, so do the natives. In Lloyd’s day, we were cynical about the locals. Now we’re starry-eyed about the locals—marvellous chaps, few more trainers and they’ll do splendidly—while they’re utterly cynical about us. Hamid Karzai has just fired his two most pro-American cabinet ministers and is making more and more pro-Taliban noises. This is a man who for the last nine years has been kept alive only by U.S. military protection. A throne in Kabul may not be much, but, such as it is, he owes it entirely to his patrons in Washington. Why would Putin, Ahmadinejad or the ChiComs take Barack Obama seriously when even a footling client such as Hamid Karzai can flip him the finger?

“When people see a strong horse and a weak horse,” said Osama bin Laden many years ago, “by nature they will like the strong horse.” The world does not see President Obama as the strong horse. He has announced that U.S. troop withdrawals will begin in 12 months’ time. Karzai takes him at his word, and is obliged to prepare for a post-American order in Afghanistan, which means reaching his accommodations with those who’ll still be around when the Yanks are over over there. The new government in London takes him at his word, too. Liam Fox, the defence secretary, wants as rapid a British pullout as possible. When Obama announced an Afghan “surge” dependent on such elements as mythical NATO trainers and then added that, however it went, U.S. forces would begin checking out in July 2011, he in effect ruled out the possibility of victory. Over 1,000 American troops have died in Afghanistan, 300 British soldiers, 148 Canadians. What will our soldiers be dying for in the sunset of the West’s Afghan expedition? What is Obama’s characteristically postmodern “surge” intended to achieve? More Afghan police sleeping in fields? Greater opportunities for women? Take Your Child Bride to Work Day in Kandahar? British troops, said Liam Fox, are not in Afghanistan “for the sake of the education policy in a broken 13th-century country.” And, even if they were, in certain provinces “education policy” seems to be returning to something all but indistinguishable from Mullah Omar’s days. The New York Post carried a picture of women registering to vote in Herat, all in identical top-to-toe bright blue burkas, just as they would have looked on Sept. 10, 2001.

Osama bin Laden’s strong horse/weak horse shtick is a matter of perception as much as anything else. On Sept. 12, 2001, the United States of America had just as many cruise missiles and aircraft carriers as it had 48 hours earlier. The only difference is that the world understood that, for once, America was prepared to use them. That’s why Moscow acceded to Washington’s “request” to use its old bases in Central Asia for northern access to Afghanistan. That’s why General Musharraf took seriously the Bush administration’s “shockingly barefaced” threat to bomb Pakistan “back to the Stone Age” if it didn’t get everything it wanted out of Islamabad. By contrast, a couple of days before, Mullah Omar and the Taliban appear to have agreed to let their al-Qaeda tenants strike America with nary a thought for the consequences to their own country.

Let’s suppose that the evacuation of the twin towers had not been quite as efficient and that the death toll was way up over 10,000. Let’s also suppose that Flight 93 had not been stymied by the vagaries of scheduling and the bravery of its passengers and had succeeded in hitting the White House and decapitating the regime. America was the most powerful nation on the planet, yet Mullah Omar evidently was unperturbed by the possibility of total, devastating retaliation against his toxic backwater.

The toppling of the Taliban was an operation conducted with extraordinary improvised ingenuity and a very light U.S. footprint. Special forces on horseback rode with the Northern Alliance and used GPS to call in air strikes: they’ll be teaching it in staff colleges for decades to come. But then the Taliban scuttled out of town, and a daring victory settled into a thankless semi-colonial policing operation, and then corroded further under the pressure of the usual transnational poseurs. After 2003, Afghanistan became the good war, the one everyone claimed to have supported all along, if mostly retrospectively and for the purposes of justifying their “principled moral opposition” to Bush’s illegal adventuring against Saddam. Afghanistan was everything Iraq wasn’t: UN-approved, NATO-backed, EU-compliant. It’d be tough for even the easiest nickel ’n’ dime military incursion to survive that big an overdose of multilateral hogwash, and the Afghan campaign didn’t. Instead of being an operation to kill one of the planet’s most concentrated populations of jihadist terrorists, it decayed into half-hearted nation-building in which a handful of real allies took the casualties while the rest showed up for the group photo. The 2004 NATO summit was hailed as a landmark success after the alliance’s 26 members agreed to put up an extra 600 troops and three helicopters for Afghanistan. That averages out at 23.08 troops per country, plus almost a ninth of a helicopter apiece. As it transpired, the three Black Hawks all came from one country—Turkey—and within a year they’d all gone back. Those 600 troops and three helicopters made no practical difference, but the effort expended on that transnational fig leaf certainly contributed to America’s disastrous reframing of its interests in Afghanistan.

And so here we are, nine years, billions of dollars and many dead soldiers later, watching the guy we’ve propped up with Western blood and treasure make peace overtures to the Taliban’s most virulently anti-American and pro-al-Qaeda faction in hopes of bringing them back within the government. Being perceived as the weak horse is contagious: today, were Washington to call Moscow for use of those Central Asian bases, Putin would tell Obama to get lost, and then make sneering jokes about it afterwards. Were Washington to call Islamabad as it did on Sept. 12, the Pakistanis would thank them politely and say they’d think it over and get back in 30 days. The leaders of Turkey and Brazil, two supposed American allies assiduously courted and flattered by Obama this past year, flew in to high-five Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The new President wished to reposition his nation by forswearing American power: he thought that made him the nice horse; everyone else looked on it as a self-gelding operation—or, as last week’s U.S. News & World Report headlined it, “World sees Obama as incompetent and amateur.”

If the Taliban return to even partial power in Afghanistan, the unctuous State Department spokesmen will make the best of it. But the symbolism will be profound, and devastating in what it says about American will.

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  • Ariadne

    And they are wondering why Canada will pull out next year? With US will in question, what will happen to their allies, will they left there and be hanged to dry?

  • Revnant Dream

    The Islamic World called Americas bluff under Obama. Now its lost because he folded.
    Thank You to all who have served. Its kept us all in North America & Europe safe for 9 years. I call that pretty outstanding.

    To the Marxists. Expect a bomb near you in the future. If not a knife in the back from your Jihad buddies. You see to them your just filth that needs cleansing. That will be the sowing of this crop.

  • jomo2009

    It's high time the US pulls out of NATO and lets the Europeans fend for themselves. Their combined populations and GDP are both greater than America's. The hell with Europe!

    • minaka

      Agree. America should conserve its treasury and military might, not squander it on ungrateful Europeans who have bought themselves candy (richer social entitlement programs) with the money they should have been spending on their own defense preparedness.

      • ColdStanding

        So, who would you rather the US squander it on? Got any friends that might be more greatful for the dosh?

        Wait, you arn't saying that the US should withdrawl from it's current overseas deployments all together???

        Ha, ha, just joshing. Course you arn't.

        • minaka

          Boy, someone's obsessed. For those lucky enough to have avoided ColdStanding's other comments, they all relate to apologia for Arabs and/or demonizing Israel while being absolutely obsessed with race. There's a pattern emerging. Putting all that together, it's likely he hates Israel because Jews are white and successful in an area of the world noted for its failure.

          • ColdStanding

            Well, I suppose I should be grateful you didn't prattle on for as long as you usually do.

            I knew you were so much more of a "friend of" than you were willing to admit, even to yourself.

            I am also noticing a pattern: I bet you vote for your own pieces.

          • Darren

            LOL the voting system is a joke. I should sign up just so Minaka can Viva_Vivian can vote me down to a level that can't post. That would dove tail nicely with their support of Steyn's battle with Jennifer Lynch.

          • ColdStanding

            What is this Jennifer Lynch business? I'll have a look on the 'net. Despite his protestations below, I still think he gives himself at least one thumbs up. It is a small vanity.

          • Darren

            If you don't know who Jennifer Lynch is, you haven't been reading Steyn for long. She is a lawyer (QC – Queen's Counsel, but Steyn has a witty bastardization of that) who quite wrongly led a Canadian Human Rights Commission battle (I guess) against Roger's Communications (they own MacLeans) because they published an excerpt of Mark Steyn's book that cast Muslims is a negative light. (I am doing my best with this explanation — Steyn acolytes step in at any time.)

            Anyways, it took a while, but after three hearings, Rogers and Steyn were exonerated. Canada has some wacky free speech laws. I will be the first to admit that. Usually when someone tries to make a big deal out of someone like Ann Coulter, they only succeed in making themselves look bad. The best bet is to ignore hate in free speech because the audience is only going to be larger when you fight it. (Yes, I am well aware of my own complicity in driving Steyn's page views and comments up. Next time I will not comment and see if the totals change.)

            My point is that if I got enough thumbs down from amen choir, I might not be able to post (I don't know if "intensedebate" has such a functionality) and that would be a triumph for the "amen choir" while accomplishing exactly what Steyn's enemies seek for him.

            Internet-based games!

          • ColdStanding

            Ah, yes. Well, I was aware of that, but did not know the characters involved. So, thanks.

            I should highly doubt you'd be banned in the comments section of a free speech advocate. Therefore, have at 'er, whatever your predelictions maybe.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

            That's not possible for an honest commenter like myself with a life, using only a single computer and handle. It's your leftist projection again but despite your best efforts at voting for yourself multiple times, you remain alas permanently mired in the minus column.

            Are leftists masochists? No, they put up with the inevitable negative feedback for their foolish comments on conservative sites because they enjoy being pests so much.

            "knew you were so much more of a "friend of" than you were willing to admit, even to yourself." ColdStanding is referring to friend of Israel here, his pet bugaboo. But I have a compliment on one of my comments about Israel elsewhere from no one else but Cold Standing himself in which he said he took his hat off to me. Proof of my contention that I judge on the facts and am not a broken record like ColdStanding himself who has yet to make a single comment that is not standard issue lefty talking point.

          • ColdStanding

            Oh, come now. You are good for some game, and I like it that you are getting a little ruffer. But, don't put too much stock into my complement, I was just getting to know you. Additionally, I would never, perforce, dismiss the possibility that anybody might, once in awhile, say something intellegent.

            As per this "lefty" short hand you are so fond of using, I mostly ignore it as it appears to be a knee-jerk response on your part. I really think it is a lazy and mostly outdated frame of analysis, this left/right business. Far too Manichian for my tastes.

            Ratings are for smucks. I am a heel, not a smuck.

    • Darren

      I agree. NATO's contribution to the Afghanistan effort has been pretty abysmal. I feel Canada did it's fair share (but I am obviously biased) and maybe Britain, but the rest seem to want to do almost nothing and cherry pick the least dangerous assignments. It's sickening.

      • Darren

        Oh, and before anyone mentions it, obviously the USA carried most of the load.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

          You must have been pegged down by your fellow lefties for your last two factual comments about NATO and the US in Afghanistan. Your brain chip is not completely in place and occasionally you say something off the plantation. Maybe you're young and can escape the darkness one day.

          • Darren

            You're an idiot who thinks s/he has a clue how I think. I am probably older than you and Mark Steyn's silliness is nothing more than a playground for me. Seriously, you're an idiot. Ad hominem etc etc. Try to think without Sarah Palin's talking points in your hand for once. I want Canadians out of Afghanistan. You apparently don't.

            I wish the filters allowed me to say what I really think of you because you don't deserve any better. You don't know me, clown. You disgust me. Try taking your act of the reservation of Mark Steyn's articles and realize you are ignorant garbage.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Viva_Vivian Viva_Vivian

            "you and Mark Steyn's silliness is nothing more than a playground for me."

            "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

          • minaka

            Of all things to set you off it was the observation that you weren't completely in lockstep with your fellow lefties with two of your comments above.

            Hm. Let's see. "Idiot, clown, disgust, ignorant garbage" and the expressed desire to spew even worse sewage if the filters didn't prevent it. Guess we know what type of person the filters are there for.

            And this from a person who makes an unfounded accusation of ad hominem in the same post. You either don't know what ad hominem means or you're a first class hypocrite. For both reasons, and your utter lack of control you are definitely part of the left brigade. The odd correct observation must be the stopped clock right twice a day phenomenon.

            As for your playground analogy, how true. Whatever your chronological age, your emotional age after the tantrum you just threw is in the single digits.

            Afghanistan is a complex subject and above your grade level as you just demonstrated.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

    That take on Iraq you haven't heard of (drawing the jihadis out to battle on ground more favorable to western forces) is so well known it has a nickname the "flypaper theory".

    Someone who calls Obama competent in military matters and thinks he's not ideological has not been paying attention at all. The man hasn't run a lemonade stand and is ignorant and despising of all things military. This is a klutz who pronounced "corpsman" as "corpse-man" three times in one of his tele-promptered readings that get called speeches and treated the Fort Hood massacre of dozens of army personnel by a Muslim spouting the usual call to Allah as a minor event.

    • Incognito

      Oh I've heard it before, I simply forgot the premise.

      If he was ideological about it, COIN wouldn't be the strategy employed right now and he never would have increased the troop levels in the first place. He could have changed the strategy when McChrystal was replaced. He did not.

      As for your ad-hominems, I could care less.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

        What's the "ad hominem"? That you weren't paying attention? You did it again in your consecutive comments above: "I don't believe I've heard that take on Iraq before…Oh I've heard it before, I simply forgot the premise".

        As for Obama, I gave two strong examples of his ignorance of and contempt for the military that merit the descriptors I used.

        "Ad hominem" is not a get own foot out of mouth card that you can fling when you have no substance with which to refute someone else's argument.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/aliasrus Incognito

          Do you know how to argue your point without being hostile and making personal attacks, or is that just part of your sweet nature? :)

          Strong examples of why it would be frivolous to respond to such baseless and petty statements.

          I'll revise that then: I could care less than responding to you.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

            I believe you mean couldn't care less. What you said means you care.

            Aside from the grammatical error, that's lib fallback position #3 to hide their lack of argument: "Oh, I'm not responding because my opponent is beneath my notice". Sounds better than "because I have nothing worthwhile to say but can't stand anyone to have the last word" but it only fools another lib.

            Why don't you just fall silent instead of trotting out one smokescreen after another hoping someone will mistake it for a devastating put down? Right now you're really not proving that you could(n't) care less but care too much.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/aliasrus Incognito

            Yes, you are technically correct.

            Actually, I don't think that you are beneath me. I thought that your line of reasoning was unfair. Mistakenly, I responded in kind. I didn't find your points particularly effective, but I figured that you were unlikely to change your view anyway; Why argue at that point? As for whether I'm liberal, I suppose you came to that conclusion because I disagreed. Regardless, that's a pretty big generalization you've made.

            Great Double Bind! I could try one of my own, but I will refrain as I do not wish to go down this route any longer.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

            I will change my impression that you are a liberal as soon as you start taking non-lib positions.

  • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/hottiemcsorry hottiemcsorry

    hater.. fuck you

  • George Waugh

    Dealing with Islamic Jihadists is like trying to water ski on a mirage. As the saying goes, "be damned if you do and be damned if you don't". The only language these b..tards really know is, "I'm going to kick a.. until there are no more Taliban nor al Quada left alive!" and then proceed to do it. Anything less than that and you're considered a pansy.

  • carol

    Steyn, this article says it all. I love your brain.

  • Danram

    *** sigh *** John McCain would have made a great president. Instead we stupidly elected a laughably inexperienced, "made for MTV" naif who has no clue how the real world works outside of Washington DC and the south side of Chicago.

    • minaka

      Don't know about great but at least he unquestionably loves his country. Who even among Obama's most fervent fans can point to any sincere words or behavior that indicate Obama loves America instead of despising it, apologizing for it to a world of its inferiors, and remaking it as fast as he can into another socialist backwater? He in his wishful thinking has even said that the USA is not a Christian country and that it is one of the largest Muslim countries (not even in the top twenty numerically). Mr. "I've visited 57 states" seems woefully ignorant of the country he now leads.

    • Darren

      John McCain would probably have been an excellent president when he ran in 2000, but he was perceived as too centrist by the GOP and they set about systematically undermining him so they could get the chimp in there. It's hard to say what difference McCain might have made, but I'd like to think he wouldn't have ignored intelligence data until it was too late.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

        Calling a man whose IQ is very likely higher than yours a "chimp" reflects more poorly on you than him.

        • Darren

          "very likely higher" and then it hits the thumbs up on her own comment. I gave you another thumbs up since it makes you feel special.

          You are now saying W is a smart man huh? Just reply and say, "I think George W. Bush is a smart man."

          I mean, he has an ivy league education. If I said I were Princeton-educated, you would probably say, "Ah, product of a liberal private college!"

          Some of your cronies will actually use "Harvard-educated" as an insult. You might want to add that to your tool belt. I'll hit the down thumb after I post to give you much-needed help with your self-esteem.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

            Why do you keep repeating the fallacy that one can hit the thumbs up for one's own comment? Lord knows, you wouldn't be languishing in the minus column if that were true.

            I'm assuming you mean the IQ definition of "smart" that doesn't take into consideration the theory of multiple kinds of intelligence.

            I think on the evidence (same military entrance exam) George W Bush is slightly smarter than Kerry, and on the basis of deeply buried academic transcripts, smarter than Obama and judging by your comments, definitely much smarter than you. So if HE's a chimp, that makes all of you…

  • wyn

    So once again I ask – who is Obama working for? The Islamists? Or the Left? I am reading Andrew McCarthy's latest book, the Grand Jihad, and think that Obama and his Leftist political cohorts believe they are using the Islamists (or letting the them play the dark horse role) to push their agenda of subverting American culture and institutions. But what the consequences will be different. What they are realy doing is gutting our culture and making it easier for the Islamists to fill the void. "Something always trumps nothing," McCarthy wrote. The Afghanistan fiasco is but another move in that direction.

  • http://shavingleviathan.blogspot.com Jeff Perren

    “World sees Obama as incompetent and amateur.”

    It's only amateurish incompetence if his goal is to win. At this juncture, that's highly doubtful.

  • "lynne"

    you are one of my very favorite columnists. your article are always right on the mark. you have said it better than anyone else, and we are in for a long, difficult time unless and until we get this man in the white house out of the way. the sooner the better, i say. obama has ndone more damage in less time than anyone could ever have imagined."lynne" keep up your essays-they're great! "lynne" in mpls., MN.

  • Joanne

    Barack HUSSEIN Obama was too late to screw up Iraq, so now he is turning Afghanistan into the next Vietnam. And don't you think he is not doing it on purpose, either.

    • Sarah

      Did your caps lock get stuck there or do you think there is some actual significance to his middle name being a very popular name outside of Kentucky? If you do think it has significance, then please share. I mean, sure it's useful shorthand for Sarah Palin to plant seeds of hate among those willing to pay her 100K for a speech, but I'm not sure how else it would warrant being spelled out in caps.

      George WALKER Bush…does that scare you? It scares me! It reminds me of bad TV from the early 90s

      • Sarah

        And one more point on the HUSSEIN issue: Obama was born in 1961. Saddam wasn't the dictator of Iraq until 1979 — you know, back when he was actually a US ally against Iran. So, you're suggesting Obama's evil, Marxist, wife-leaving father was also a seer and wanted his son to be named after a future ally turned enemy of the US?

        Come on, kids, own this one. She's one of yours.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

          The original commenter made no connection to Saddam Hussein. That's all you.

          Hussein is a common Muslim name and that's presumably the only point the commenter was making. The Obama camp reacted like you during the campaign and made groundless accusations using the empty word Islamophobia against anyone who dared mention his middle name.

          After he was safely elected, that same middle name was flaunted as were Obama's dozens of sadly unreciprocated overtures to the Muslim world. A partial list includes bowing to the Saudi King like a headwaiter while giving a chilly nod to the British Queen, proclaiming incorrectly that America is not a Christian country and is one of the largest Muslim countries numerically (not even in the top 20) and offering to defend Islam against any criticism anywhere as well as the "right" of women to wear face coverings.

          The Hussein in BHO's name is clearly meaningful without recourse to Saddam.

          • Sarah

            As much as I would love to take your word for it, can you link to a story in which Barack HUSSEIN Obama's people actually played up his middle name as a selling point to anyone?

            Oh, and are you saying Obama is the first president to make nice with the Saudis? I really don't care if Obama gets a second term, but I just want to ask if that's how you see things.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

            "President-elect Barack Obama says he plans to use all three of his names when he takes the oath of office in January, giving voice to a name that was was rarely used during the campaign except by critics.

            In his first post-election newspaper interview, with reporters from the Chicago Tribune and Los Angeles Times, Obama was asked: “Do you anticipate being sworn in as Barack Obama or Barack Hussein Obama?"

            He replied: “I think the tradition is that they use all three names, and I will follow the tradition, not trying to make a statement one way or the other. I'll do what everybody else does.”

            In fact, all presidents have not used their middle names when taking the oath of office…"
            http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081210/pl_poli…

          • Darren

            And that link was him making nice to the middle east? I mean, I did learn some interesting things from the link (some presidents were sworn in with and some without middle names), but that is him making nice with the middle east?

            Seriously?

          • minaka

            I gave a link comparing the Obama camp's different attitude to his middle name before and after getting him elected. There is a ton of stuff on his making nice to the Middle East. Start with his Cairo speech as an exercise in backside kissing. Speaking of that, get a load of his combination head waiter bow and curtsy to the Saudi King on You Tube.

            You waste people's time by either being uninformed or pretending to be. It's standard lefty tactics to go to a conservative site, be as much of a nuisance as possible, make no substantive comments, but name call, demand evidence for everything while giving none in return, then nit pick. What you think you accomplish with this is a mystery.

    • Paul Monroe

      "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" ?
      That was cheap.
      One can do much better when criticizing Obama.
      "… so now he is turning Afghanistan into the nest Vietnam"?
      Well, he actually inherited that big messy situation from Mr Bush.
      I think that if one thinks that "war" can be won, one should become a soldier and go fighting in Afghanistan, as many brave people have done. (And some of them are now back in the US saying for anyone who one wants to hear that the situation there is untenable).

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/bignotbuyingit bignotbuyingit

    Why doesn't Canada take over the mission, then?

    And, why did most Canadians support Obama's election?

    • minaka

      Canadian opinion molders including in public education, perhaps even most Canadians by now are reflexively anti-American, the one bigotry they allow themselves without recognizing it as such. They like to think of themselves as superior across the board in a way they would never dream of doing regarding the Chinese, the Saudis, Zimbabweans, Mexicans, anyone else you care to mention. Obama shares Canadians' poor opinion of America so…

  • LeChat

    You can't engage in nation building when there is nothing to build with. If you want to win in Afghanistan, you need to be there for a very long time. I don't think that the western countries have the fortitude to do that. They will be sorry they didn't.

    • Ariadne

      You hit the nail on the head. With this generation, when everthing is just a click a way, a day is like forever. Nowadays, most people want to have an ideal clean war where combatants are the only casualties and results must be instantaneous. With this kind of mentality, there is really no point for much else, let alone nation building.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/DanielShays DanielShays

    The question of why Ahmadinejad would take Obama seriously is but the beginning of a much longer series of questions. Why would Al Qaeda, Chavez, Castro,Mugabe,Putin,Kim Jong II or any of the other thugs strutting about the world stage take him seriously either? Obama and his administration are weak, feckless and, increasingly, pitiful.They resemble small children abandoned by chance on the mean streets of a large city. Pie eyed and frightened.Completely unable to look after themselves, much less discharge the obligations of a great power.Hopefully, Bismarck was right and divine providence will look after the United States until grown ups replace this hopeless mess

  • http://Inthisdimension.com InThisdimension

    Here are the undisputable facts:

    Obama has done more harm to America’s economy, domestic politics and military forces than did Hitler or Imperial Japan prior to mid-1942.

    Obama must be dealt with as any other enemy of the state: defeated unconditionally.

    Pussyfooting around until November – and assuming against ALL logic that the New Black Panther gig in PA was not just a trial run that worked – is insane.

    When will we decide that America is worth fighting for? That the lives of our soldiers sent to die in a worthless war their CINC does not want to win -are worth fighting for?

    What will it take before America understands that OUR enemy is Barack Obama?

  • Geechee

    Hillary's campaign spot which asked "Who do you want answering the phone at 2 in the morning?" will prove to be prescient. Just be glad the oil spill wasn't a domestic terrorist attack.

    • Darren

      LOL as if the Steyn crowd would be any happier with Hillary in the White House. That's rich.

  • Perdido

    It may end up being the only inhabitable place left in the Middle East.

  • Perdido

    Does the world wait for America's mid-term elections?

    • Darren

      Why would we. Obama and the lily-livered Democrats can't do much even when controlling all levels. The super majority is gone and the Donkeys will lose a few more this year. It won't change much. If anything, the Obama presidency represents a teachable moment for social studies teachers during the branches of government unit, but that's about it.

      Situation normal….and so forth.

  • Iva Gotrhythm

    If people see the front end of a horse and the back end of a horse, they naturally prefer the horse's front end.

    When Obama proclaimed the Afghan "surge," he simultanerously announced that we''d be exiting stage-right in a year's time.

    Any idiot would instantly recognize that we'd just lost the war because the Taliban and bin Laden will just wait until we leave, take over Afghanistan again and then push on into Pakistan to take their nukes.

    The entire world now recongizes Obama for what he is: The stern end of a horse. The American public, having voted this moron into power, is going to pay a huge price for this particular mistake.t

    By the way, which nation(s), specifically, "like" us more now that our country is run by an imbecile?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

      Cuba and Venezuela. A coalition of two.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/cinderellafe cinderellafe

    Correction: "…in what it says about American GOODwill."

  • Trip

    +6 for a clown casting aspersions on Obama's wife and mis-spelling it in the process.

    Why does MacLeans carry this clown? Oh yeah, page views!

  • Chris

    “by forswearing American power: he thought that made him the nice horse”, my daughter, when young, played with My Little Pony, maybe Obama needs a new name — President My Little Pony

  • Roc46

    I did a tour with the US Army in Afghanistan three years back. I was an advisor living with an Afghan Army unit out in the field. Mr. Steyn's analysis is spot-on. The troops I dealt with were illiterate and, sadly, corrupt. More alarming, the Afghan people themselves didn't seem to care a wit about freedom or fighting for it. Nothing angered me more than risking my life for as people who couldn't give a hoot about their freedom. We're making the same mistake we made in Vietnam; you can't make people fight for their own benefit if they don't see the value in doing so. Thirteenth century country with a stone age mentality….

    • Trig

      Your post sounds a lot like what a friend of mine said when he returned. I was genuinely troubled that he might be lost over there leaving his wife and two sons. I might be considered a leftie by the Steyn choir, but I hate the thought of losing good Canadians trying to turn that place into a democracy. Even Karzai is supposedly a former warlord. Why are good Canadians losing their lives propping up that government? Can't wait until we get out of there.

      • ColdStanding

        Why are good Canadians…

        The short answer is, as always, money. Recent news reports suggest that there are in excess of $1 Trillion of un-exploited mineral resources in Afganistan. Not to mention it's utility as a juristiction where the base componnent of the off-balance sheet securitization of narco-dollars can be made with little fussy interference from the law.

        While your friend, rightly I believe, is troubled by the possibility that he might die a worthless death in Af, recent reports indicate that there is little shortage of Canadians signing up for the military. So much so, that the infantry, at one point in recent history, stopped taking new people for the infantry.

        What do you think this implies?

        • Darren

          Well, it's true that the Canadian military can be a great career. You can potentially enter as an officer, maybe never see combat — especially if you join the navy, and retire with a nice pension after 20 years of service. I used to work as a civilian contractor with the navy and thought long and hard about joining up. I definitely don't consider it easy work by any means, but it is a heckuva lot better career option that a lot of what's out there.

          • ColdStanding

            No, no, I don't mean it is money for the troops and officers etc., but I mean it is money and power for the movers and shakers. When there is a $1 Trillion plus, I ask: Qui bono?

          • Ariadne

            Is that why the Arabians and middle east foreigners (Bin Laden and his thugs) went there to be the voice behind the previous Taliban? Religion is just a front for all those greed?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/straittohell straittohell

    Not that I want to swim too hard against the current, but I have a question: Why are we assuming that Obama even has a choice about his approach? The United States of 2010 is not the United States of 2001. George Bush was able to employ his tougher style because his country was in a stronger position at the time. The United States now owes more money to countries like China than ever before, have an exhausted military, crumbling infrastructure, and an economy on life support. Has anyone considered that Obama is playing the only hand that he has? If I walk into a house and the cupboard is bare, I'm not going to invite people over for a five course meal.

    • Guest

      No! It's Obama's fault. We will consider no other argument. Reasonable discussion does not sell magazines and books to frightened right-wingers.

      Annie get your gun, a brown guy is in the White House!

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

        Why are leftists stuck on stupid i.e. race?

        Is it OK with you if people oppose the policies of Obama's white half?

        • Guest

          If only Steyn and his ilk spoke up before Obama was in the White House. Then we might have a reasonable discussion. He didn't. The tea baggers didn't. Fox News didn't. Malkin, Limbaugh, Kristol etc. They stay on message no matter what.

          Tell me one thing you disagreed with Bush on. I'll even help: illegal immigration? Anything at all? Name one thing and then you might not seem like an automaton. I can name many things I don't like about the mulatto in the WH. Just for fun, throw me a bone and name one thing you disagree with W on.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

            Your first paragraph is wrong on all counts. The din of criticism of George W Bush on the conservative side was significant including pundits and grass roots. It actually managed to reverse one of his Supreme Court nominations. Would that the Left were as honest about egghead Kagan's unsuitability (no experience actually judging) and lack of their hallowed diversity (a second New York Jewish Ivy League female on a nine member court).

            Besides the above, I disagreed with Bush's well intentioned No Child Left Behind education policy that teacher unions sabotaged and made into a boondoggle of federal funds enriching themselves while not improving student performance one iota, as well as another proposed amnesty for illegal immigrants instead of enforcing America's borders and laws.

            The gamble that a key Muslim country (Iraq) could be remade with help into a functioning democracy with rule of law and start a domino effect with Muslim populations demanding human rights instead of fomenting terrorism (Iran) was a worthy one because had it worked, it would have saved a lot of lives in the long run, including Muslim.

            However, you can't nation build FOR someone and both Iraqi and Afghani feet should have been held to the fire as to how badly they actually wanted a peaceful existence and rising standard of living. It was a mistake to allow both countries to choose sharia i.e. Islamic law with its propensity to fail both Muslims themselves and threaten non-Muslims eventually.

            It's actually funny hearing leftists with their public education installed chips firmly in place call anyone else an "automaton". Still worshiping Prophet Al Gore? We who escape the sausage factory and media-entertainment leftist propaganda monolith with our critical faculties intact are the free thinkers.

          • Guest

            You've said you're Canadian. Were you educated in a private school? You keep referring to public education as a hallmark of leftie ignorance. Have you ever put your money where your mouth is or are you done with education and now want to deny the right to anyone else? You speak of "escaping the monolith." I hope you live by your credo.

            So, did you disagree with No Child Left Behind before or after the commie unions got in on it? As for his supreme court nomination, they was so laughable nobody could get behind it. I guess W found the limits of nepotism with that one.

            The "left" has been as critical of Kagan as the right, but you probably wouldn't know that because you have already stated you're not interested in reading things you don't agree with. Keep posting, Minaka, I think you might actually be helping the left.

          • minaka

            Your first paragraph is incoherent. I'm a survivor of the public indoctrination system. I have no idea what you mean by putting my money where my mouth is and what exactly am I trying to deny anyone else?

            I've never said I'm not interested in reading things I don't agree with. That's sheer projection of the leftist credo. I said I'm not interested in reading Wikipedia as an authoritative source.

            I read several newspapers so I'm well informed on what leftists are saying about Kagan and your fantasy that they are as critical of her as the right let alone critical at all is laughable. Name one significant opinion journalist or article in one major leftist news source that is critical of Kagan and Obama's choosing her. They're falling all over each other fawning as usual.

            You come to a conservative pundit's column, write several lame comments and then claim I'm helping the left. Really? My comments are converting Steyn readers into lefties? Your fantasy world doesn't transport well from Kos. And if you think YOU'RE gaining any converts here…

            On the other hand, your comments remind conservatives (as though we need reminding) that leftists' arguments are devoid of substance.

          • Darren

            "Your first paragraph is wrong on all counts." "Your first paragraph is incoherent."

            Do you ever get past Steyn's first paragraph?

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            "The gamble that a key Muslim country (Iraq) could be remade with help into a functioning democracy with rule of law and start a domino effect with Muslim populations demanding human rights instead of fomenting terrorism (Iran) was a worthy one because had it worked, it would have saved a lot of lives in the long run, including Muslim."

            Don't me make me laugh. The singular sales pitch at the time was that Iraq had WMDs. When that blew up, all of this revisionist grand strategy about bringing democracy to the savage muslims suddenly appeared. Were you even paying attention in 2002-2003?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

            You're misinformed as always. Why do you bring your misinformation here? It only passes in leftist circles.

            There were several reasons given for invading Iraq prior to the invasion and unfortunately the decision was made to stress the WMD's since that was thought to be the most pressing issue for the West on the basis of the best intel available including from countries other than the US at the time. The leftist media latched on to it (in its usual Chicken Little the Sky is Falling Way like they treated the global warming scam) to the exclusion of the others and later pretended it was the only one. That's the revisionist history.

            However, it is still easy to bring up the entire list on the Internet, the one available to Congress and that the left leaning Democrats as well as conservatives found convincing at the time.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/straittohell straittohell

        You're not helping.

        • Guest

          I am not here to help anymore than Steyn is.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Viva_Vivian Viva_Vivian

            Trolls generally do not help. They simply revel in ruffling feathers by welding straw man arguments or ad hominem attacks. This is why you continue to visit Steyn's column without any idea of how transparent you look.

          • ColdStanding

            OK, _Vivian, riddle me this: What is the implication of this week's column by Steyn?

            I don't want you to re-hash the "points" that he makes in building his arguement. I want you to consider his column as a warrant in support of a claim. What claim is he making (because he doesn't come right out and say it, hence it is implied)?

            I will give you 5 bonus points if you can name the specific current event that prompted him to write this column.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Viva_Vivian Viva_Vivian

            I'm not you're tutor. Keep your "bonus points."

            Troll harder, Guest/ColdStanding/pdpd/CowardWhoHidesBehindAliases.

          • Darren

            Sounds like a Tea Partier. What's his/her country back, but can never really explain much beyond that.

            Bet you were the one carrying that "keep your government out of my Medicare" sign, right?

            And as for the coward thing, just how brave are you coming here as "Viva_Vivian"? That is an alias, is it not? You do know what an alias is, right?

          • ColdStanding

            I don't know why you'd think I'm a TP'r.
            I like and use Medicare.
            Thanks for the comment on the pissiness over alias. It is as if they never made comments on the internet before, where the use of an alias has a long standing tradition.

            To me, this is like on line poker, a great place to practice opinions. The feed back is great!

          • Darren

            That was a response entirely meant for Viva-Mark Steyn should have my babies-Vivian. This comment system leads to endless confusion, it seems.

          • ColdStanding

            Right-o.

          • ColdStanding

            No shame you haven't the stuff to answer my question. I realize it is hard for you pride to admit it, so I'll let your truculence go.

          • minaka

            ColdStanding comes to a conservative site, makes various unsubstantiated accusations and lame comments that get squelched handily, then starts handing out homework assignments.

            As usual he uses the unsurprising lack of response to flatter himself and the cleverness of his imagined "trap" instead of recognizing that neither he nor his assignment interest anyone here.

            It's ColdStanding who should now read people's minds including Steyn's with his usual accuracy instead of the author's words and explain to all of us what Steyn really meant and what the motivating incident for the article was. The swami sees between the lines and tells all. This should be good.

          • Darren

            Hold on, McCleans is a "conservative site?" You should really try commenting on anyone other than steyn before you make that claim, Minaka.

            Steyn isn;t even that respected outside of his tiny circle. If Harper is a Steyn fan, I would dearly love for him to start spouting some of Steyn's (or 5 ft 5's) talking points. Watch that minority gov't become the opposition in a hurry.

            For my part, I will change my vote since the last election because of you. I voted for a conservative MP, but next time, the LIberal candidate will get my vote because I can't stand the thought of voting for the same party as you.

          • minaka

            Do you intentionally make yourself dense? We are all on the site for comments on Steyn's article. In fact, you and other lefties recognize and make much of the fact that you're surrounded by conservatives here.

            And your childish rationale for how you're going to vote instead of examining the candidates and their party platform is worthy of a five year old. As though anyone here believes you ever voted conservative. Why stop at liberal? You're classic Dipper material.

          • ColdStanding

            Trap? What trap? It was a straightforward question. Do you know nothing of Confucius's four corners method? Just joshing, of course you don't.

            Given what Steyn wrote, what are the wider implications of his conclusions beyond the specific subject matter of his piece?

            If there be any "trap" or "gotcha" waiting to be sprung (dang you are paranoid) then it be that I have drawn my conclusions.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Viva_Vivian Viva_Vivian

            Darren and Coldstanding are the Tweedledee and Tweedledumb of Macleans — not McCleans — magazine online and should not be paid any more heed than absolutely necessary. Turning their arguments, if you can call them that, on their heads is an easy task and the "stuff" that follows is merely sand slinging child's play and gelatinous trolling. Neither have an interest in anything Steyn has to say or any knowledge about the topics at hand and only come here because they enjoy ruffling the feathers of conservatives. Questions asserted as truth, sarcasm in place of submissions, and racist accusations disguised as "jokes" about their opponents are the only "tools" in their arsenal.

            Back to the basement they go.

          • ColdStanding

            And Viva_Vivian and minaka are the minaka and Viva_Vivian of Maclean's.

            Seriously V_V, do you think that you make substantive arguements? I don't think that you do, so, that is why I skewer you. Contrary to your appraisal of me, I have, to the best of my, admittedly limited, ability done my thinking prior to posting here. So, when I read someone, such as yourself, posting from a viewpoint which I have come to oppose, then what point is there in "tutoring" as you so kindly said once? The answer is: none. So, get over yourself.
            continued…

          • ColdStanding

            And how do you go about determining how much attention you will pay or is absolutely nessessary? Seeing as your feelings seem a little hurt, here is some guidelines I will for your posts. Given my history of posting, it is likely that I will find what you post to need skewering, and will do so as I am free to do so. As an aside… mockery, sarcasm, and condescension are fairly commonly used tools for skewering. If you find what I say to be disagreable or what have you, then feel free to post back if you want me to know your counter opinion. I will respond (probably). If you arn't interested in an exchange, and you don't seem to be too much above name calling, then don't post under my comments or mention me in your posts.

          • ColdStanding

            Nice and simple. You can go on making your, umm, arguements, at ease in the knowledge of how not to attract un-wanted trollisms.

            All the best,
            ColdStanding.

          • Ariadne

            Must be a professor from those "Universities", University of 0 perhaps?

    • Ariadne

      I believe what people are questioningis his direction of where the Afghanistan war is going. He sabotaged their own efforts by announcing next years withdrawal right after sending a surge of military units to Afghanistan. I do not have a military mind, but that seems like counter productive- more like duh? Was he expecting a nintendo game where war is instantaneous just by a click of a button? He urged and pressured Canada to stick in Afghanistan, yet he planned for his troops to go, what kind of dumb idea is that. Is he planning to make us Canadians and other UN Forces his sacrificial lambs?

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