Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Medium and message

by Aaron Wherry on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:01pm - 0 Comments

Michael Ignatieff explains the principle at play.

“This is not how Stephen Harper does politics. Stephen Harper would have you about 25 feet back, he’d have you behind a rope line,” Ignatieff told about 50 supporters in Hawkesbury, Ont.. Ignatieff wore a plaid shirt and blue jeans. ”He wouldn’t take an unscripted question, he wouldn’t wade into the crowd. There’s a kind of suspicion of Canadians, and a suspicion, that God help us, something might get out of control.”

Tags: Hawkesbury, Liberal Express, Michael Ignatieff, Stephen Harper

More by Aaron Wherry

Jan

Just reeks ot elitism, doesn't it?

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Jan….you bet. Some of the pictures of Ignatieff in the media i.e. holding the cheese and carrying out donuts like an effete are priceless and are going to show up in election ads and it won't be just the Conservatives doing it to the poor Count.

For the life me I can't understand how running around the country talking to small groups of Liberals is going to get Canadians to like him more. Oh, I know as he said yesterday he is going to bring politics to Canadians. Yikes!

Jan

Now there's an 'everyone man' way of carrying donuts? Is there a manual for this sort of thing?
http://intensedebate.com/people/NorthernPoV NorthernPoV

Who is the most popular man on the nudist beach?
….
The one that can carry 2 coffees AND a dozen doughnuts!

Robbie Burns

And it's most important how one reacts when things "'Gang aft agley."

For “There is no such uncertainty as a sure thing.”
Lord Kitchener's Own

It's a bit over the top, but it may be a meme worth perpetuating. Of course, it may also be easily countered by photos of the PM at some barbecue somewhere. The PM is definitely less accessible than I'd like, in any number of ways, but from a PR sort of view, I think this type of line might be reasonably easy for the Tories to parry.

Emily

Not with the constant enforcing of the 'Russians are here, Chinese are influencing us, we have a massive crime wave, and there are terrorists under your bed' that we've been getting.

Fear, fear, fear.

Orson Bean

Iggy did what he wanted and needed to do. He got the talking point out there. That's why on balance, I think this bus tour will be a net positive for Iggy and the LPC. They're getting their message out.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

What's the talking point again?

Orson Bean

See the quote in Wherry's post — the stuff in italics. What Iggy said. That'd be LPC talking points.

Translation of talking points: Iggy/LPC good, Harper/CPC bad.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Well, if you can't cite them for me, and if they're hard to discern from a rather long quote, then they're not the greatest of talking points, are they.

However, from what I can gather based on the Liberal-friendly choir on here, I think they're trying to paint Harper as this KGB agent of a leader, and Iggy the next coming of Teddy Roosevelt – based on a quote by Iggy about himself.

Again, if you've got nothing else…..
Orson Bean

I'm not a LPC supporter. But that sound bite, the precise one that Wherry quotes above, made it into the CTV national newscast last night. The LPC is, in that sense, accomplishing what it wants to do through this tour (bus breakdowns and sulfur comments aside): getting their message out. Whether that message resonates and affects voting behaviour in favour of the LPC is another matter.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Orson Bean….what message would that be? I am incompetent because we could not rent a bus that had a viable transmission. There is no message. Listen what the Count is saying. He is going to bring politics to Canadians. What in the world does that mean anyway? Anything he says is a bunch of platitudes that nobody but the kool-aid drinkers are going to believe.

Orson Bean

I'm talking about the message in the quoted text in Wherry's original post. That has nothing to do with the bus breakdown, btw, which you would see if you cared to read the text to which I refer.

You seem to be confusing the effectiveness of a message with the matter of merely getting the message out. By virtue of the fact that the CTV ran Iggy's soundbite in its entirety on last night's national news cast, I think it's beyond dispute that the LPC got their desired message out in that instance. As I have stated more than once, I have no idea whether that message will have the effect that the LPC desires.

Crit_Reasoning

Ignatieff's point would have been better made if he wasn't saying this to a tiny group of committed Liberal supporters.

Stephen Harper would put a friendly group of 50 Conservative supporters 25 feet back, behind rope lines? He'd be too suspicious to wade into a crowd of a few dozen cheering partisans?

Of course, Ignatieff is almost certainly correct that Harper wouldn't take unscripted questions from non-media types while cameras are rolling, given his penchant for ultra-tight message control.

Emily

Well actually he's talking to you, and everyone else in Canada.

The stops aren't restricted to Lib supporters you know.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Well actually he's talking to you, and everyone else in Canada.

Sure, but in the quote above, Ignatieff was specifically addressing the assembled crowd ("Stephen Harper would have you about 25 feet back, he’d have you behind a rope line"). The media reports seem pretty unanimous in describing Ignatieff's bus tour audiences as "supporters", but as you point out, it's certainly possible that there are a few non-supporters in the crowd.

Emily

He'll likely repeat it in many places, and I can guarantee there will be non-supporters there, as well as the uncommitted.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Emily…..oh yes the stops are for Liberal supporters. Many of the caucus and the grass roots don't have much use for him. Speaking to small groups of Liberals is not going to mean anything to Canadians who already have an impression of him and don't much like him.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

CR……the Pm does not way into crowds and everybody knows that. Having said that I have not had any trouble meeting him at one of the party's meetings.

Holly Stick

You didn't notice the snipers getting a bead on you?

Jan

Iggy had Brian Lilley in the back of his car last night. Can you imagine Harper allowing any reporter in his vehicle?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Harper has traveled with journalists before.

Curious attempt by the usual suspects to portray Iggy as, all of a sudden, some kind of "man of the people" because of one visit. Not only that, but it's Iggy telling everyone how common he is, as opposed to just going out there and doing it – being himself. "Hey, look at me, I can do this. Can't I?" Yeah, that'll work.

Personally, I think this strategy is way off. But, when you have nothing else, what can you do, right?

Because, just look at the results.

Jan

Much more creative than anything the Cons have come up with. Good for them.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

You mean a faster than expected economic recovery and healthy lead in the polls just doesn't cut it these days, does it. Interesting.

Anon 001

That's all you got? We don't suck as much as Europe. That's it — the essence of Harperian achievements?
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

No, that's not "all I've got" because it's not what I wrote. Next.
Emily

We haven't had any economic recovery, and not even the Tories believe their 'lead.'
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Ah, Nola, you never do quit, do you.
Emily

No Fred, but you should…while you're ahead.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

My name/profile eventually links to who I am. I have nothing to hide. You?
Emily

I said nothing about hiding Fred. I'm aware you're doing free advertising on here, but you're a very confused individual.

You can't argue on points, you just post partisan rhetoric with no back-up. I assume that's why others call you a Conbot.

When that fails, you attack other posters.

You are a waste of time.
Livebloggin Junkie

Care to back up your partisan rhetoric that there hasn't been an economic recovery when in fact Canada has seen economic growth for the last three quarters and job growth in 9 of the last 10 months
Emily

Obviously you don't read the financial section.

No one's sure if we're in for a double-dip, or a crash. Portugal just got it's rating reduced.

The 'other shoe' is dropping. In fact there may be a whole rack of shoes.

We are part of a global economy you know.

Harper never saw the 'recession' coming, so don't go by him on how 'healthy' we are.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

So, Nola, you're basing your agitation against Harper on things that have yet to happen? Have you read the financial section and actual Canadian economic numbers, or simply Liberal party instructions? That you have to deny the economic growth that has actually happened here pretty much says it – about you and your party.
Emily

You are a boring hack, Fred.

I don't waste time on partisan tomfoolery. Bye.
Livebloggin Junkie

Obviously you do not know what a recession even is, but you do a terrific impression of Chicken Little.

Yes, Stephen Harper did not see the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the attendent credit crunch, but Harper did say in his year end interviews of 2007 that he was concerened about slowing growth in 2008. In response he moved the GST cut ahead putting $5 billion in consumers pockets just when they needed it most.
Emily

Yes, I'm very aware of what a recession is….we haven't had one.

It's why I put the word recession in quotes…'recession'.

Harper broke our govt by lowering the GST, and blew the surplus as well.

We are seeing the results in the highest deficit in history, and the ongoing tsunami of the global crash.

I guess if YOU are employed, you don't see the big picture though.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

So Liberals would raise the GST? Maintain a surplus, especially with an NDP coalition? Whatever, Nola.
Emily

I said goodbye Fred.

Take the pom poms elsewhere.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Wow, you're even using the exact same slogans as the Bourque boards, Nola. Doesn't anyone provide you with some new material? Geez.
Livebloggin Junkie

"Yes, I'm very aware of what a recession is….we haven't had one"

Clearly you are not because we did have one from Q4 of 2008 to Q2 of 2009.

What 'results' are you talking about from the 'highest deficeit', which adjusted to inflation or using % of GDP is actually lower then any deficiet since 1975 save for 1997.
Emily

No, we didn't have a recession…that's just a convenient media name. You'll have a new name for it shortly.
Livebloggin Junkie

What do you define a recession as?
Emily

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession#Definition

Better definition this time around tho was DEW…or Distant Early Warning.

You might also want to look up several other names you'll become more familiar with shortly.

'Stagflation', 'Depression', 'Crash' and 'What fresh hell is this???'
Livebloggin Junkie

So, you accept the widely held definition that a recession is two or more quarters of negative growth in GDP but still insist that Canada did not have a recession?

Even though we had negative growth in Q4 of 2008, Q1 of 2009, and Q2 of 2009. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/GDP-Gro…
Emily

Sigh. Reread what I just said.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Just curious… why do you call him "Fred" and why does he call you "Nola"?
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

I call her Nola because that's the name she went by as a Liberal party troll on the old Bourque Newswatch boards. Same M.O. Same posting style. Everything. She calls me Fred because, well, she's a Liberal party troll. lol. I hope that clears things up for ya.

Oh, and "Jan" was "bc" over there – Nola's one-liner sidekick.

Ask around. lgarvin knows, so too does the "observer" dude on here.
Emily

Because as I said he's a very confused individual, and since he calls me by the wrong name I return the favour.

Also he attacks posters rather than arguing points, because he's incapable of doing anything else.
Jan

I was referring to the NDP response. They must have some writers on board.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Jan…except one problem for the Libs. Harper has the job of PM Ignatieff does not. So the onus is on him to convince the ordinary Canadian he deserves the job. Up to now he has failed miserably.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

"…There’s …a suspicion, that God help us, something might get out of control.”

Thankfully there are no such worries concerning the Liberal bus tour.

http://intensedebate.com/people/LynnTO LynnTO

The bus wasn't so much out of control as it was out of repair.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

Yep. Everything's under control – we wanted the bus to break down so that we could encourage discussion of metaphor amongst Canada's chattering classes.

Lord Kitchener's Own

and it WORKED!

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

Chalk yet another victory up for Canada's Natural Governing Party. The CPC should just concede now.

Dee

Iggy makes a valid point. When was the last time Harper did an open-ended, public townhall with a non-previously-selected-ready-made-audience, and took questions from any voter in attendance? Iggy has done it many times and is doing it now. Stephen Harper is apparently allergic to this kind of open, democratic exercise in public speaking.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Frankly, it's the same 'old, same 'old from opposition leaders. They all do this. Then the good ones who actually win elections go onto run a tighter ship, well, because they're now running a country.

For example, Obama went for months without even holding a press conference.

But I do find it interesting to see how eager some are on here to develop this particular talking point; that Iggy has somehow become a man of the people. Again, I guess when you have nothing else….

Personally, I don't think Canadians see a problem with Harper on this score, which makes that talking point that much more confusing. People know that opposition leaders make promises, then they do what's best for them once in power. Especially Liberals.

Dee

So, you don't think Canadians have a problem with Harper not doing unscripted, public-hall style meetings with the public? Riiiiight. I guess that is totally unrelated to public poll findings where voters consistently describe Harper as "secretive". I think it is safe to say most Canadians value openness and transparency from their leaders. Harper and the Conservatives clearly aren't keen on either judging from their pre-chewed, readymade political "events" and the way they govern.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Amazing to see how many on here are so willing to jump on this latest vague Liberal talking point. Like I said, if nothing else works…..

Will those surveyed answer "yes" to a poll that asks if Harper is "secretive" after having heard it from liberal types in the media all the time? Ah, yes. Do I think it will have any bearing on the next elections ballot box question? Absolutely not.

So, again, I'm not really sure what's being accomplished with any of this. Don't think it will resonate. Don't think Canadians will buy that Iggy is somehow a reformer, or that we even need it.

Dee

By calling it a "vague Liberal talking point" suggests that I got this observation of Harper's unwillingness to participate in public forums from other political parties press releases or something. I didn't.

Anybody with open eyes (and minds…. you might want to look into that) can see that this is Harper's and the Conservatives modus operandi. And frankly it is a gutless and fairly cynical way to to do politics. Do Canadians like this hermetically-sealed approach to politics? Apparently a majority of them, so far, don't.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

No, by "vague Liberal talking point" I mean this rather bizarre rush to somehow manufacture a populist Iggy after a quote in which he pats himself on the back for wearing jeans or something. Many of you seem to be jumping on it right on cue, aren't you?

Again, I don't think Canadians buy it, so I'm not sure why some of you are so desperate to sell it.

Harper keeps being blessed by the quality of his opponents, I'm afraid.
Dee

This from an obvious supporter of a party that rolled out Stephen Harper in a sweater vest for populist purposes. Every, and I mean every, political party rolls out the populist, just-plain folks tropes during its' campaigning.

My point is that many Canadians have had an opportunity to ask Igatieff questions in open forums. Harper is apparently afraid of doing these or is too obsessed with controlling his party messaging to have a real interaction with Canadian voters who have concerns.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

I don't have anything to do with Conservative party policy or marketing, or anything for that matter, nor would I ever try to be someone else's stooge and parrot their lame talking points for them.
Dee

Coulda fooled me… the phrase "Conbot" comes to mind.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Of course it does. You seem to do "knee-jerk" quite well, and lash out at anyone who dares to criticize the Liberal party agenda. Thanks for showing up.
Dee

Dimitri Soudas, is that you? Thanks for coming out, eh?
http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Dee…when you have nothing intelligent to say resort to name calling. Its number one in the Liberal hand book. There are no other real Canadians other than those that support the Liberals.
hollinm

Dee…..perhaps if the Libs tried to manage their messaging a little better they wouldn't be at 23% in the polls and its leader at 14%. Try it sometime. It may work for you guys.

Once again you Liberal sycophants focus on process, tactics and strategies. In the meantime the PM is governing the country and getting recognized for his efforts in the polls.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Dee….maybe that's the trouble with Ignatieff. Maybe if he kept his mouth shut and didn't show up the poll numbers for the Libs would go up. Despite you gloom and doom Harper is still beating the pants of Ignatieff in all leadership polls.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

Lol, you must really have a hate on for Ignatieff, if you are willing to describe Obama as a good leader.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

You know, it's funny. You scolded me the other day for not reading your oh-so-well written posts properly, but here you are telling me that I've described Obama as a good leader when I precisely have not. Again, funny that.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

"Then the good ones (ones referring to leaders from a previous sentence) who actually win elections go onto run a tighter ship, well, because they're now running a country. For example, Obama went for months without even holding a press conference."

Sounds like your saying Obama is an example, an example of someone now running a country, an example of someone who ran a tight ship, an example of someone who won an election, an example of a good one, an example of a good leader.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Well, for one thing, I started a new paragraph, and simply offered up Obama as someone who doesn't mingle very often.

Those "good ones" I referred to are Canadian opposition leaders, like Iggy is now.

A "tight ship" is in reference to communications and such, and in no way reflects the quality of governance. Only an obvious necessity.

Clear things up?

Good. Next.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

lol
http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Stewart_Smith. Speaking of Obama. I don't know if you are watching American politics but there is going to be an explosion in that country the likes of which we have not seen in a very long time.

The Dems are going to lose the House of Representatives in the fall and maybe even the Senate. Obama unless he changes course is going to be a one term president.
chet

Vote Liberal

We're Fine with letting things, "get out of control".

That will definitely appeal to the teenage crowd, and seems eerily in line with liberal supporters reactionary defence of the anarchists shenanigans of late.

And what a perfect contrast to Canada's banking, financial and business sectors, all "under control" under the Harper regime.

I not sure a bit more anarchy is what the average Canadian is looking for these days.

hollinm

Dee….obviously you are talking about him speaking to high school kids who aren't old enough to vote and the university crowd who probably never vote even though they probably can. Let Ignatieff get in front of a crowd with ordinary folks and let the questions fly. Can you imagine what would happen? Mr. Ignatieff why did your party support the Conservatives 105 times in the House of Commons. Answer….I was afraid of an election.

All of these events are orchestrated and you know it. Do you honestly believe the Libs were going to take the chance that nobody would show up to listen to the Russian Count?

Dee

There's clearly no satisfying uber-partisans such as yourself hollinm, so I won't waste typing time.

Nevertheless, re: your comment: "Let Ignatieff get in front of a crowd with ordinary folks and let the questions fly. Can you imagine what would happen?"
Like many Canadians, I've actually been at a public hall-style meeting with Iggy answering any and all questions. He ably handled the various queries (for the most part) with honesty and wit. Sadly, I haven't had a chance to attend an open town-hall meeting with Stephen Harper, and potentially ask him a question. Because there are none…

Livebloggin Junkie

Iggy has hit on the best campaign slogan for the Liberals.

"Vote Liberal, and something might get out of control"

Orson Bean

That raises an interesting question to me, which is whether Harper's control-freak tendencies are actually something that would motivate non-aligned voters not to vote for him.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

I honestly don't think Canadians see Harper as a "control freak". They see him as doing a job, and he's not that bad at it. The only people who seem to complain are those who fully expected a Harper-led government to revert to some old Reform habits. That it hasn't happened I'm sure has been a source of constant anguish for some.

Orson Bean

I didn't say that I thought Canadians (meaning Canadians as a whole, or a substantial majority) see Harper as a control freak. I think there's certainly evidence that he is a bit of one. I'm not making any kind of moral judgment or anything like that about whether it makes sense to have tight communication and event control when you're PM. But I think it's quite clear from the record that Harper believes in running a very tight, disciplined ship in this regard. Some people see that as a virtue, others clearly do not.

What I find much more interesting, though, is the question of whether or not that LPC line of attack is or will be successful, i.e., whether pointing out and hammering away at this control-freak tendency will actually pay any political dividends for the opposition.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Cool. Thanks for clearing that up.

Personally, I find it a rather odd line of attack. Maybe they're trying to accentuate the fact that Harper is a bit cold and aloof – trying to preempt the donning of a new blue sweater line, so to speak. And, in fact, now that I think about it, it might not be so bad an idea. Although, at some point, you need something more substantive.
http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Dennis_F The Libs and their supporters are flailing about trying to find something that will dent Harper's teflon coat. However, as I have said before they prefer to focus on criticizing strategies, tactics and processes. Very little about policy other than they do not agree but fail to say concretely how they would be different.

When an election comes Canadians will ignore the white noise and focus on the leadership that Harper has provided the country. That generally is on economic matters and taxation. We can all agree that Harper has done a good job. All of the impirical evidence shows the country is moving forward and is well into recovery. The voter will look at Ignatieff who they believe is not a good leader and the disarray in the Liberal party. They will look at the vague promises i.e. a pig in every poke and will stick with what they know.
http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Orson Bean……good observations. However, history has shown that no party no matter which political strip is going to win office if they is conflicting messaging and each MP freelancing. We have seen the trouble with the lack of discipline in the Liberal caucus i.e. abortion resolution, Coderre and Bevalacqua etc. etc.

Canadians judge leadership by what they see. Sometimes it is the small things and Canadians have witnessed and heard enough to know that Ignatieff is not in control of his caucus i.e. the Senate. They are not going to elect someone to run the country who cannot run his own party.
Orson Bean

Well, I wish I had an accurate crystal ball like you have. That's quite a gift you have there. I assume that you also use it to make financial bets, and are therefore a billionaire several times over. Which is why you have time to make all those posts on this site. As for me, alas, I was born mortal and thus am not in a position to definitively declare who will win our next election.
http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Orson Bean…….like you I am a mere mortal but anybody who follows politics, reads the polls, follows the gaffes of the Liberal leader knows who the odds on favourite is to win the next election. It isn't rocket scientist stuff.
Orson Bean

The last paragraph of that post I was reacting to did not talk about odds-on favourites or anything like that. You were essentially making declarative statements about what's going to happen next election, and which way Canadians were going to vote.

I agree that the current odds would favour the Tories, but that's the current odds based on current circumstances. Things can change very quickly in politics, particularly during a campaign. Personally, I think the most 3 likely outcomes are, in order of likelihood, are:

1. Tory minority
2. Liberal minority
3. Tory majority.

http://intensedebate.com/people/lgarvin lgarvin

There's a good point that Hunter Thompson made years ago when he was following around George McGovern for Rolling Stone. (The material he gathered was eventually used to produce Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail, the best thing he ever did, IMO). Thompson wrote that they only reason McGovern would spend any time at all around a loose cannon like himself was because the long-shot McGovern campaign was absolutely desperate for coverage of any kind.

I get much the same vibe off of Iggy here… He's trying to make a virtue of necessity.

Orson Bean

Absolutely agreed on Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail — an underrated book by HST, full of great anecdotes and some real nuggets of political insight. His other truly underrated book is The Great Shark Hunt.
http://intensedebate.com/profiles/tigerinexile Ben (The Tiger)

But sometimes it works — see Harper Summer Tour '05.

Gary

Iggy Tour 2010
Meeting Canadians one at a time provided the bus makes it!
Har Har!

http://intensedebate.com/people/MostlyCivil MostlyCivil

Good lord man! Have you registered your devastating wit as a lethal weapon?

Gary

Perhaps I should.
It would be about as useful as the gun registry in preventing death due to laughter!

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

Why are there no protesters at Ignatieff's events? Has he really said and done nothing to offend anyone? The guys advocating a further troop commitment to Afghanistan, and nobody bothers to protest? He says China's communist government has contributed to the greatest advance in human rights in history, and nobody wants to protest? Is he that low in the polls?

Emily

You think you could wait until there's been more than one event?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

Have you got something planned?

Emily

LOL no, but I'm sure others have.

chet

It's worse than hate, it's….apathy.

Iggy just doesn't matter to Canadians.
http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Style…..he is that low in the polls and nobody cares what he has to say because they know they will not vote for him in the next election.
http://intensedebate.com/profiles/tigerinexile Ben (The Tiger)

Honestly — and this is going to seem like partisan snark, but it's a real impression — he changes his views around so much, it probably confuses the protestor crowd.

One week — not losing sleep over Israel knocking down a building in Lebanon; next week, it's a war crime. Comes up with the Green Shift, now denies paternity. Calls for Guergis's resignation for months, then denounces the PM for ditching her too quickly. Calls George W Bush a better humanitarian than most of the UN, backtracks quickly once in Canada.

If you don't like Ignatieff one week, just wait a bit — you'll find something else soon.

How can you demonstrate against a guy like that? Spend your time preparing, and he'll agree with you. Where's the fun in that?!

http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

I think Aaron and the rest of you have missed the big story out of this…

apparently Ignatieff escaped the cheese factory without a hairnet photo-op!

Considering the consequences, this is a huge victory.

lgarvin

He may have escaped the hairnet photo, but it wasn't exactly a clean getaway.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

You can't really expect to visit the cheeze factory and get away scott free.

On the plus side, we know that he has the smile to play the lead role in the Grinch.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Stewart_Smith……the man takes awful pictures.

Lord Kitchener's Own

Do you suppose the ACTUAL Chez Piggy (a very nice little restaurant in Kingston) could sue the NDP for using their name???

When I saw that menu, at first I thought it was quite a coup that the bus tour was being catered by Chez Piggy! LOL It was always a tough place to get reservations at on the night of any formal at Queen's!

http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

Hey, I have actually been there too. An excellent restaurant to be sure. More important question:
Do you suppose we good get anything for our excellent endorsement of that establishment on this august pages?
Jan

My God, they serve argula on their roast beef sandwich !!! There's goes the 'man of the people'. meme. Obama was hammered for weeks after he mentioned the spicey green.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Did you actually see the photo-op that he left behind? A hairnet would have been better, no?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

"Stephen Harper would have you about 25 feet back, he’d have you behind a rope line,… he wouldn’t wade into the crowd."

That's the problem when you smell like fire and brimstone: the crowd scatters in utter panic every time you try to wade into them.

Lord Kitchener's Own

Plus, there's a "rope line" for Hell now???

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

There didn't used to be, but then strategists became worried about the effect on CPC morale every time an entire front row of audience members got sucked into the depths amid screams of despair at motivational events.

http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

Wow. I just knew in my soul there was a good reason to remain unafilliated with any party. Thanks for confirming that I had it right.

TwoYen

I think that Mr Ignatieff is exaggerating a tad in his comments. Those responsible for security for all three of Canada's prime ministers since 9/11 (and even before, but to a lesser extent) have required that crowds be restrained by rope lines or other such measures. Moreover, all party leaders including Stephen Harper take unscripted questions from supporters. No story here.

Dee

Re: "Moreover, all party leaders including Stephen Harper take unscripted questions from supporters."

The question really is: do party leaders take unscripted questions from people that aren't necessarily supporters? MIchael Ignatieff, so far: yes. Stephen Harper: no. That's the issue.

RDB

Didn't John Tory try for this sort of thing against McGuinty last provincial election? It's not the sort of issue that really resonates and is pretty easily upstaged.

Mike R

You are right. All that the PM needs to do is have an event where he takes questions and wades into a friendly crowd. Easily arranged. Expect to see the PM interacting with actual voters any day now. It is, after all, BBQ season.

wilson

''Why are there no protesters at Ignatieff's events? ''

Because he is inconsequential.
Same reason that crowd of 50 were not behind a rope, being watched by security, no one has threatened to behead him.
http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

Oh brother:

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff said Wednesday he would like to create a federally funded program to allow young Canadians to work overseas and gain international experience.
On Day 2 of his summer-long cross-country tour, Ignatieff told people at a town-hall meeting in Kingston, Ont. that international experience is not something that should be frowned upon.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Ignatieff+env…

"Spending time outside Canada ain't so bad." A fine argument.

"Spending time outside Canada is sooooo important I'm committing your future tax dollars to sending folks abroad." A pathetic attempt to use OUR MONEY to turn your "just visiting" negative into a positive.

Keep this up, and I'll head over and unscrew a few bolts on that bus myself.

Orson Bean

My impression was, Jesus, John F. Kennedy created the Peace Corps 50 years ago. This isn't exactly original and visionary. Plus, it's not like there aren't a zillion other programs and opportunities out there already for young Canadians to go abroad for all kinds of reasons (NGOs, university exchange programs, other charity/volunteer orgs, etc). Pretty much any young Canadian who wants to go abroad these days and gain "international experience" has a modicum of brains and moxie can easily find a way to do it.

Seen in that light, this really is the LPC grasping at straws. If this is them rolling out that long awaited policy stuff, then wow, talk about lame.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

Hey, it's Paul Martin's Canada Corps announcement! Is this some sort of obscure joke by Ignatieff, reannouncing Paul Martin's entire foreign policy? Or does he just not know about Paul Martin and his policies?

madeyoulook

Ignatieff: Starting today we’re going to get on a bus and go to every province and territory between July and September, if it doesn’t kill me first. We’re going to stop at every legion hall, every barbecue, every Tim Hortons and shake every hand in the house.

From the liberal.ca blog and event announcements:

LEGIONS: Zero

TIM HORTONS: One
(14) Napanee

BBQs: Five or Six, if you count a sidewalk grill serving pancakes & sausage
(10) Calgary Stampede Breakfast
(12) Orleans
(13) Cornwall
(14) Peterborough
(15) Durham
(16) Brampton

HANDS SHAKEN: not tracked

KILLED HIM FIRST? Thankfully, no.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

One Tim's visited. Only 2,799 left…

madeyoulook

Oh, brother #2:

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff says he has a personal stake in supporting artists in Canada, as well as the CBC…
“For 20 years I lived six months at a time. No safety net. No pension. No coverage. That’s the life of an artist,["] he said. ["]I lived the insecurities of it, I lived the thrill of it. The thrill of being your own master. I lived the thrill of reaching an audience with no help from anyone except for what was coming out of my pen. I understand this world. I understand its risks; I understand its perils.”…
“[Harper] doesn’t get it. That’s not the Canadian artistic community. They’re hard-working, self-employed entrepreneurs, struggling to create markets for their vision.” http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/836036…

Hard-working self-employed entrepreneurs thrilled at the choice they made, of being their own master. A nice description. Very romantic. Let's throw millions & millions of other peoples' dollars at them. Yeesh.
Emily

Well, that's true enough.