John Geddes

John Geddes writes on politics and policy, with occasional reporting and comment on arts and culture.

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Statisticians and the bedrooms of the nation

by John Geddes on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:12pm - 0 Comments

Of all the strange elements in the government’s case for eliminating the long-form census, the most absurd has to be the Conservatives’ fixation on the census question about how many bedrooms are in a home.

In his statement this evening acknowledging the resignation of Munir Sheikh, the chief statistician of Canada, Industry Minister Tony Clement once again singled out the supposed invasiveness of this particular query.

“We believe it is not appropriate to compel citizens to divulge how many bedrooms they have in their houses,” Clement says, “or what time they leave for work in the morning.”

Now, we all know why inquiring about the hour Canadians begin their commute is offensive—that was the first bit of information the Stasi always collected on their quarry. But why is the matter of bedrooms so sensitive? Does it have something to do with the state meddling in, you know, the boudoir?

If that’s it, perhaps overheated Tory imaginations would be cooled by reading what Statistics Canada itself says about this matter in its handy guide to the questions on the 2006 census and why they were asked:

“Information on the number of rooms and bedrooms in homes and on housing costs is combined with data on the number of persons in households to assess the economic situation of families in different regions. Provincial and municipal governments use this information to measure levels of crowding within households and to develop appropriate housing programs. Information on the age of dwellings and their need for repairs is used by municipalities to develop neighborhood improvement programs.”

I’m going to guess that it would be a challenge to read that dry, sensible explanation and maintain a proper libertarian sense of alarm over state intrusion in private matters. I mean, who writes this stuff—bland and harmless statisticians just trying to do their jobs?

Tags: bedrooms, census, Statistics Canada, Tony Clement

More by John Geddes

estelle

Poor Tony Clement, left hanging out there again, following "His Masters" orders like a clueless lapdog. Anything to protect his boss from criticism. Perhaps some of the questions on the long form need tweaking, to bring them up to the needs of todays Canadian population, and thats a job for an experienced statistician, how are the various levels of all governments, supposed to do any planning without this essential information? See Aster's comment above, right on. Oh I know, they have a fortune teller in the PMO. Remember the Walkerton tragedy & deaths, caused by the Harris govt' cuts to clean water safety. Tony Clement & several of his current cabinet buddies were M.P.P's in the Ontario government at that time. Same Old Same Old…
MUR

Its about time the census is abolished, all it is, is a money grab by the government to sell our information to busness. I have been refusing to fill out the form for years, and now I am justified. Lets not talk about all the times informaton has been stolen, left on hard drives, in filing cabinets, and trunks of vehicles. GOOD RIDDANCE

tono-bungay

There have not been a single instance of Census data stolen, left on hard drives, in filing cabinets, or trunks of vehicles. This has happened to tax data and military and diplomatic information, which have serious privacy and secrecy problems compared to the census. Personal information in the census has protection that is extreme. Most of it is never seen by human eyes before being added up. StatsCan employees have no internet access in their office, and only a handful have access to raw census data. If we want to improve privacy, all other departments require improvements long before the Census.

MUR

What planet are you from—Ottawa?? Just last census they found data in filing cabinets in Edmonton, the census before that they arrested and charged a man in Winnipeg, when they found census reports in his trunk, twice after the census offices closed down and the computers were sold, they found census info on the hard drives. these and more I have the newspaper clippings for. And as to who sees he finished form, well you must have never worked for the census. the person handing out the form checks to make sur eit is complete, they habs it on to their supervisor for final approval and so on up the line, everyone knows what is on your form and they also have your name and address, so much for privacy. So checkyour facts out

estelle

You're an idiot, do you live in a bubble? Wonder how many of the various services or protections established by governmental agencies based on census information you take for granted and use.

MUR

Yup I am a true idiot, Every paper I have read in the last three days are telling me that ( and this is a quote) "we spend huge dollars to get that information and use for our selves. Check the Saurday Globe and Mail and that other Ontario Paper, then you can apoligize, thanx.

estelle

If the Globe & Mail, which by the way I have had delivered for more than 20 years, is more suited to your way of thinking, why don't you comment there. Of course it costs a lot of money to implement the census. We are a large country & our population has changed considerably since the last census. we are in effect a huge corporation. Can you name any big companies that operate efficiently & profitably without spending large sums on fact finding. 'Business Census'. Perhaps I should have said you are myopic.

MUR

You are so close Estelle, I know companies and large corporation and government need information to grow and suceed, BUT and its a big BUT, we the population should not be forced by law to fill out forms the government then sells to private industry. How loud would you scream if "angus-Reid" phoned your house and said if you did not do one of their surveys, they would send the police to your door and arrest you, scary aint it???

Bill Bohlender

Concentrating on the bedroom issue is a small concern, if at all. The census asks much more private questions.. The last time we had the census a great many objected to these invasive questions contrary to what some are saying is minimal. Fining a person, or putting them in jail is rather extreme if one did not want to answer a particular one.
JamesHalifax

Sunshine Coaster wrote:
"Perhaps you didn't notice that the latest recession was caused primarily by housing developers and bankers working in tandem to bilk money out of ordinary taxpayers, until their greed finally burst the bubble"

Actually, you can place blame on Clinton. He was pressured by minority interest groups to enable low-income Americans to buy their own homes. Banks had to lend to people they knew were a financial risk…..and you see the results of that policy. Developers and bankers didn't start the mess.

Aster wrote:
"Yes! And if I choose not to tell "some busybody beaurocrat (sic)" (i.e. City Hall )how many toilets will be in my new house (or if I will have a sceptic system, or if I will simply dump by waste into the steet…) then that should be my right too! Where do this wackjobs learn their political philosophy from… Sesame Street? "

Aster…..come back when you gain another 20 IQ points. Once you've done that and break the 100 mark, come back with something sensible.
JamesHalifax

Aster noted:
"I don't believe that this government particularly cares about non-existant privacy issues. I suspect that scrapping (or rendering useluss) the long-form census is part of the long-term goal of this government to reduce government intervention in society "

Great…that's why I vote for them. Less Government is exactly what we need. The only people complaining are the parasites that feed from those who actually DO make a contribution and create wealth.

Here's a hint……if you are able bodied and fit,

It is not MY JOB to see you have food on the table or a roof over your head. If you are able to work….you SHOULD BE WORKING.

If you are holding out for a job that you think is worthy of your talents and letting ME pay your way….then you are a leech, and the job you refuse to do, is a job you don't deserve in any event.

For all you unemployed Liberals out there who have not yet managed to belly up to the taxpayer trough….I bet your having second thoughts about that useless degree now eh?
Chris

Mr. Potter, I think you are right to bring the power/knowledge conjunction to bear on the analysis of the long-form census. As you say, to mobilize power to change individuals and phenomena, we need knowledge about it. You can’t figure out how to reduce traffic deaths until you know how many there are and how they happen. And, despite Tony Clement’s cheap shots, you can’t determine how many homes are over-crowded without knowing how many bedrooms and occupants these homes contain. (The Maclean’s John Geddes had a great post on this.) So, yes, the long-form census is about extending the state’s power to address certain problems.
But your post falls apart in your “left vs. right” analysis and your use of Foucault. Foucault argued that power in society was not wielded solely by the law-enforcing state or by capitalists, and for that reason he was neither a traditional liberal nor a Marxist. He argued that there are other kinds of power, used by bureaucrats and schoolteachers and doctors and, yes, statisticians. Sometimes that power is used for good, and sometimes for exploitation and marginalization. The real question is whether knowledge and power are used to achieve objectives that, after reflection and discussion, we can agree on.
I applaud those who raise concerns that information collected about us will be used to control our behavior in ways we don’t want. Totalitarian regimes have done that. So have right-wing ‘democratic’ governments. (Anyone remember McCarthyism?)
But, as other posters have mentioned, reliable information is required for good government. The real question is this: What social problems were targeted by the information-gathering of the long-form census? What actual abuses of that information were feared?
That is the debate we need. Not the Conservative red herrings that the census takes too much time or that individual information would become public (wholly unfounded, given StatsCan’s safeguards). And not whether government statistics are a “left-wing” or “right-wing” concern.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PeteTong PeteTong

Don't you think it's weird that they dropped the u from neighbourhood?

Potentially Tony Clement thinks the government has no business developing housing program and neighbourhood improvement programs
Joy

This issue is directly tied to personal social programming. People who do not plan to access individual social spending (and who haven't in the past) question this because they do not use the product.

People who have used social programs and plan to continue to use them, know that they must provide personal info to an overseeing body who will then use that info to decide what government assistance they qualify for and how much.

This discussion has to end with the age-old More Government or Less Government. The more Government aid we want, the more information we will need to provide so that aid can be planned for and provided. You cannot have both a social state and privacy.
Anders

Obviously neighbourhoods don't need programmes, as people who can spell words properly can figure things out for themselves. It's those poor buggers who can't change their language settings in MS Word who really need the help…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

What? Where did they do that?
http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

But you are just wrong. Unless you consider roads, hospitals, fire halls, buses, schools, shopping malls, hairdressers, water treatment plants, churches, sewer maintenance, Tim Hortons, municipal tax assessments, and so many more, to be 'personal social programming'.
Mike

Sorry Joy but i hit the thumb down when i meant to hit the thumpbs up!!

I think the bad press you are getting about your comment is that most people don't understand what a social program is. The conservative lot that the average Canadian has become, would rather pay less taxes than to have good quality services, or social programs available to them.

They mistake more government to be more taxes as opposed to better positioned social programs…
Joy

The point is that roads, hospitals, fire halls, buses, schools, shopping malls, hairdressers, water treatment plants, churches, sewer maintenance, Tim Hortons, municipal tax assessments are general benefits. No other information is needed except the basics – age, density, etc. Things like sewer maintenance don't need info other than that.

I usually consider things like Tim Hortons, malls and hairdressers to be private institutions – not public services (nice as they are, we don't deserve them due to the taxes we pay)
Herbert

We get them despite the taxes we pay. We might get many more services if we paid less taxes. Did you know that New York State in the good old Hew Hess Of Hay is concerned that their elections are now skewed toward government employees and those that are paid indirectly by the state. Those people are now 52% of the population there. They will always get a government that will support public sector wages. Non government unions will also vote that way. Guess who is sucking the hind tit there.
Herbert

We get them despite the taxes we pay. We might get many more services if we paid less taxes. Did you know that New York State in the good old Hew Hess Of Hay is concerned that their elections are now skewed toward government employees and those that are paid indirectly by the state. Those people are now 52% of the population there. They will always get a government that will support public sector wages. Non government unions will also vote that way. Guess who is sucking the hind tit there. Is that productive? I don't think so. You want more of the same thus I condemn you.