Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Michael Ignatieff: Oakville and everything after

by Aaron Wherry on Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:16pm - 0 Comments

About a half hour into an event in a courtyard in downtown Oakville, a middle-aged woman fainted. A doctor in the crowd stepped forward to attend and an ambulance was called. She was out for a minute, then opened her eyes. Michael Ignatieff who had been shaking hands and posing for pictures, came over to check on the woman, holding her hand for a bit, then comforting her husband. The paramedics put a brace around her neck, then lifted her onto a backboard and carried her away.

After the ambulance had departed, Mr. Ignatieff was introduced by the local candidate and took the microphone. He spoke of the woman and the paramedics and turned the moment into an example of public service and compassionate government and then proceeded with easily the most impassioned call to arms of these three days—his tone turning nearly to a yell, periodically sounding something like a growl.

His aides have stopped giving him a script. He takes the stage with a small card on which are written the names of those in attendance he needs to thank, but otherwise he just talks. The basic ideas are the same each time—Stephen Harper is a power-hungry authoritarian who disrespects everything and everyone who would impede his personal ambition, Michael Ignatieff is an open-minded, compassionate man who wants to bring the country together for common cause—but the phrasing and the sequence are left to chance and whole new tangents periodically come up. This is probably for the best. Ultimately this is likely both practically and politically a good thing. But it won’t always work and it doesn’t always work. Mr. Ignatieff is a natural rambler, he has perhaps never answered a question in anything less than a dozen mutliple-clause sentences. This morning, for whatever reason, however tenuous his segue, he got rolling and found some kind of momentum and suddenly the sentences were stringing together like he’d been practicing this sermon his entire life.

He went then to Mississauga for Muslimfest, where the crowd, some of whom were eating lunch, some of whom were chasing children, wasn’t much interested in speeches. He was fine, if decidedly unremarkable. The mayor—Hazel McCallion, who has been in office since Confederation—followed and fared better with a series of cheerleading applause lines delivered like the unapologetic grandmother she essentially is (“I love my Muslim people,” she happily proclaimed).

Then to downtown Toronto for the end of the Caribana parade—the scene a blur of sequins and flesh and feathers. Mr. Ignatieff watched for awhile and then went in, walking the parade route, exchanging handshakes and high-fives and fist bumps. The music swallowed everything up, the bass pounding relentlessly, and the people were warm and Mr. Ignatieff grinned widely. A man in a silver dragon costume gave him a thumbs up. A scantily clad dancer blew him a kiss. On a couple of occasions, he danced. People in the stands waved. Afterwards there were more handshakes, more pictures. Then it was back into a waiting car, bound for the airport. He’s due at a Tim Horton’s in Grand Falls, New Brunswick tomorrow morning at 9:15.

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  • Cats

    I'm Michael Ignatieff and I think we need more schools and more paramedics !

    Errr what ? Those are provincial responsibilities ? Details, details. Like i'm supposed to know anything about this country, I just got here !

    Those evil Conservatives would have left that fainting women on the ground! I'm just like Tony Clement, I was involved in a community effort at saving a life !! Yay!!

    Cats away, with eyes rolling.

    • Margaret

      Cats away?

      • Emily

        On here it's acceptable for grown adults to pretend to be cats.

        • Sigh

          Adult?

          • Emily

            I'm in a generous mood today.

    • Margaret

      Oh. Poster name.

      Take care of those eyes – they might stay that way. Classic sign of contempt too, but I'd love to see an eye-roller who actually gets his eyes stuck there.

    • JoeC

      Ignatieff did more to help the woman than Clement did, and he didn't risk drowning himself in the process. Of course, ultimately, it was the doctor and the paramedics who did something useful, much like the case of Clement, whose wife and father-in-law were the useful ones.

      But, hey, you're right about the provincial responsibility thing. I guess you must want your own party to campaign on cutting all heath transfers to the provinces in the next election. Otherwise they'd be idiots and hypocrites like Ignatieff.

      On a side note, your cat thing has to be the lamest thing I've ever seen on the entire internet. I wish it was so lame it was funny, but it's not. I recommend using a different handle and pretending it never happened. We'll all be happy to play along.

      • frobisher

        "the lamest thing I've ever seen on the entire internet."

        Ah, so you have not yet met the person here named 'Indolent Jedi' or whatever it is.

      • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/josephius Joseph

        Eh, you clearly haven't been around the Internet enough.

        Personally I think it's nice that Macleans seems to bring out such interesting characters, but I suppose I'm easily amused…

    • http://intensedebate.com/profiles/josephius Joseph

      Actually, he "turned the moment into an example of public service and compassionate government".

      I'm not entirely sure where you get the 'more schools and paramedics' from. Or do you think that compassionate government and public service are only a provincial responsibility?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

    The mayor—Hazel McCallion, who has been in office since Confederation

    LOL.

    I seem to remember reading that Hazel and her son were involved in the Pacific Scandal……

  • Margaret

    By the time he gets off this tour in September, his guard is going to be down completely, and we'll get the real Ignatieff.

    • Emily

      You have been all along. It was just distorted by all that Con noise.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

        [youtube wwDLjXb6FCM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwDLjXb6FCM youtube]____His own words, enjoy.

        • Emily

          I've got a better one.

          'The annual gathering of the Writers' Union of Canada took place in Ottawa in June, with many former chairs on hand to offer memories of their time in office. Susan Crean remembered encountering a young, blue-eyed politico at a constitutional conference in Calgary in 1992. When the man learned that she had co-authored a certain book about American domination of Canadian and Quebec politicians, the man responded: "You should not have been allowed to write that book."
          The man: Stephen Harper. '
          http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/less+proud+coun…

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Not even close, nice try though.
            [youtube i6THjLj0XzU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6THjLj0XzU youtube]

          • Emily

            Oh I think book burning is pretty signifigant.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            You lost me with the usual suspects Atwood and Ned Franks. Next time point to an article from Alps or Donolo to make your case.

          • Emily

            Well see, that's your problem

            You take a simple topic like Iggy's bus stops and turn it into a full-blown election campaign accusing Iggy and all other posters here of numerous evil deeds….when it's nothing but a bus stop thread.

            And claiming Iggy's old statements are important….while Harper's aren't….just make you look silly.

            Take a pill.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Focus Emily. I provided a video with Ignatieff can you try to keep up?

            Ignatieff own words in Ireland 2005 pre-liberal leadership. You have failed in providing a video or a tape from Harper. He worked at Carr Institute in the US.

            Here is a bonus video of Ignatieff in his own words AGAIN. See Emily it is called EVIDENCE, try finding some without resorting to Liberal friendly sources.

            [youtube Ibds01tEO3A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibds01tEO3A youtube]

          • Emily

            No, for one thing you don't know how to post urls, so they are unusable….and Con propaganda to boot…. and for another you focus on things Iggy once said but disregard what Harper once said.

            And finally, this is not an election campaign. It's a thread on bus stops.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Emily "You have been all along. It was just distorted by all that Con noise."

            Can you link the Bills since 2006 the official opposition have introduced into Parliament. This is a minority and they have official opposition days.

            Focus Emily those photo-ops on the Liberal Express he must be stating something of substance right?

            Can you list what a few key policy alternatives besides the NDP eliminate the corp tax reduction?

            P.S. Listing National Daycare does not count. Liberals gutted the Mulroney PC National Daycare plan when they won.

          • Emily

            Yes, Iggy has been visible all along…Con noise just distorted it.

            Now pay attention to the thread topic, and stop campaigning, because I"m not interested in your nonsense.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross

            See, Emily, this is where you reveal the kind of person you are.

            CanadianSense has brought to your attention things that YOU, of all people, should be concerned about.

            If I, personally, had a party leader who had made comments such as the manner that Ignatieff made. That it doesn't seem to concern you — that you want to write off Ignatieff's past positions on, of all things, torture, as "con propaganda" simply reveals the kind of person you are:

            A hard-core Liberal hack. And I'm sorry to say that it's rather undignified.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Hmmm…..there's a video of Harper doing a speech with some kids behind him, one fainted, Harper looked around, turned back and took a swig of water and carried on…all heart and consern.

            BC'r in Toronto has the video on his site.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Why do the radical left make this so easy?

            You compare an individual fainting during a press conference to the police action imposed in several instances under the Liberal regimes.

            Do you prefer the brown or black shirt when you attend rallies?

            Clearly your history of the October Crisis in the 70's, APEC-UBC campus, World Summit -Quebec City, G20 Toronto is to white wash the Liberal actions.

            Pre-emptive detention, suspension of rights is acceptable under a Liberal police state.

            You radicals are a scary bunch.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            CanadianSense, you just don't get it. I've seen you try this crap on other sites and they keep waving you off until you go away – now you think you have a new forum to use your old post-it notes, cut and paste OLD news.

            People aren't interested – don't you get it?

            By the way, I'm not a "radical" left in the least.

          • bugzy

            I see UNCOMMON SENSE is hard at it again acting like a 6 year old spoiled brat bully and dumber than a door knob. Go back to your site dearie and chat with your agreeable buddies there. As they are of the same mind as you are, you should have no problem connvincing them.

          • Jan

            Harper's need to control goes way back but who he knew he doesn't think some books should even be written.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Ya, the so-called freedom of speech – - only when I say so Harper. Sounds like the Bible belt in the southern US that think they can decide what you can read or not. Tom Sawyer was one they wanted banned

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Religious intolerance seems to be a pattern from the left in regards demonizing Christians.

            Social Background Characteristics: The Shrinking Liberal Core
            The Liberals were able to coast to victory in 2000 with the support of two key groups:
            visible minorities and Catholics. By 2008, the Liberals could no longer count on their loyalty.
            The visible minority vote dropped 14 points between 2000 and 2004 (see Figure 2).3 The main
            beneficiary was the NDP. The Liberals did not lose any further ground in 2006, but in 2008, they
            lost a massive 19 points. And now it was the Conservatives who benefited. In fact, minority
            voters were almost as likely to vote Conservative in 2008 as they were to vote Liberal.
            http://ces-eec.org/pdf/Anatomy%20of%20a%20Liberal…

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Okay, for the last time CanadianSense, I am totally not interested in your neverending babble.

            I don't care who's religious or not. I was referring to people who think they can tell you what to "read".

            We apparently have freedoms in this country – even to believe or not believe in religion. It's a person's personal choice.

            Besides, I believe in separation of church and state as does Christ.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            You claim not to be a bigot by citing a case of Tom Sawyer being banned in the US and infer the Prime Minister is limiting free speech and you invoke an American tale from southern the Bible belt as your litmus test. ( Projection and revisionist history?)

            How many people died at the hand of socialist-communist collectivist policies enacted by countries behind the Berlin Wall?

            When Tom Sawyer has his books banned which party was in power? We Democrats in support of free speech an racial integration?

            When the Japanese were interned, Italians rounded up, Jews denied entry during the exodus or Commonwealth Sikhs turned away what political parties were in power in Canada?

            I don't need to invoke the pattern of framing Canadians in Western Canada as bigots, stupid and extremist Christians who are un-Canadian.

            Perhaps you can apologize the millions of people of faith for pushing your ideology.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            What is your problem? I'm not a bigot, I used that as an example because it was the first thing that came to mind.

            By the way, whoever was in power made no difference – it was a certain extreme religous group – not government.

            Now – listen up kiddo – I'm not interested in your constant babble about things anyone can look up.

            Get it?

            I have no need to apologize and certainly don't take demands from time wasters like you.

            You can't even comprehend – I don't care what a person's beliefs are, it's their business.

            You are such an idiot.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            You excuse your bigoted statement against religious tolerance by citing it was the first thing that popped in your mind.

            You than follow up with more ad hominem attacks about someone you know nothing about and than claim you don't care about religious freedom.

            You than repeat/label censorship as an extreme religious activity and not fault of government. You are excusing the actual actions of people in elected government, enforcement, judiciary who are enforcing, enacting, passing judgment on the laws on the books.

            Is it possible your revisionist attempt of the US Old Southern HISTORY of trying to frame this about Harper (those scary radical Christians "Republicans" in the bible belt) does not stand up to scrutiny?

            You than repeat your rant about religion as an example extremism and intolerance.

            Ontario Town states "I believe in separation of church and state as does Christ. "

            You appear to be in denial of how your are using the statement above.

            My guess is you support removing Christmas reference to God in every public space because it offends your own beliefs.

            In your defence," I am not a bigot, I should be allowed to disparage Christians and Conservatives regardless if I don't know anything about U.S. history."

            Did you attend the Mel Gibson School of Public Speaking?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Read my lips – I have absolutely NO interest in your babble and uninformed attacks on what I believe or don't believe.

            Now if only I had a fly swatter handy, I could get rid of this pest.

            A response from you again is wasted – I will deleted, because you are hyperventilating on nonsense.

            Get the message?

            Bye

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Another ad hominem attack, these posts are "cached'.

            I am glad we cleared up your anti-religious tirade and fear mongering of "free speech" as a threat from the Federal government in Canada.

            Being anti-Harper does not give you a license to demonize Christians.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Ha, ha – this is too funny – I AM a Christian. Early days – Methodists that later joined up to form the United Church. My mother was a Sunday school teacher when she was young and I could go on.

            You probably know that a group of Christians in Florida are planning to burn the Qoran…..other evangelicals have come out against this- some are extreme and some are not.

            Pretending everything is perfect because someone claims to be Christian is childish.

            So, cut the crap.

            You do exactly what is instructed by the CPC – take someone's comments and try to twist them to the extreme.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            "You do exactly what is instructed by the CPC …" – Ontario Town

            Again the pattern is repeated ad hominem attacks.

            The only twisting (back pedaling) that has taken place is your attempt to repair your bigoted post.

            Again trying to invoke your personal belief and your mom's background does not excuse your comments.

            You failed in trying to pin the Conservatives as anti-free speech or they are religious extremists trying to push a hidden agenda.

            That fear mongering has been tried and failed in 2006 and 2008. You will need to improve your partisan talking points.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68toCAiPIjo

            …it was a Liberal government that implemented the new conservative domestic agenda – lowering taxes on the wealthy, privatizing crown corporations, cutting social services to the poor, eliminating health and safety rules.
            http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/72828…

            With cooperation of opposition leaders Manning, Day, Harper in opposition the Liberals were able to pass several budgets.

          • Blacktop

            I think it arose because the original Refolrm party people went this way and that way and were regarded as fools – what they needed was party discipline and that's what they got. The media just loved to sop up the way-out offerings then./ Notice how there aren't many now?. Reporters hate silence.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            It was no mistake by the strategists of the "big tent" party to frame Canadians from the West as religious freaks that don't represent shared values. They demonized Manning, Day and supporters of Reform as bigots, backward and UN-Canadian. (Some in the media participated in group think repeating the scary hidden agenda narrative as they exploited the limited French speaking of party leaders)

            The CPC party is a construct compliments of the tactics by their political opponents. Conservatives chose to unite and provide an alternative to the dominant political party that held the title of natural governing party.

            The CPC have a well run organization based on a real grassroots consisting of a large number of small donors. The Liberals have NEVER recovered from Chretien ensuring his legacy by cutting off the Bay Street and Big Union money into the federal political landscape.

            Chretien created the ultimate political welfare class. In 2008 in desperation of losing those political subsidies the most successful political party in Canada was forced to join the Democrats and Separatists in blocking the November Economic Update. Backroom Liberal strategists never imagined they would fall from 38% to 26% within six years.

            The Democrats and Green have been growing their base at the expense of the "big" red machine.

            They over reached, created a backlash from the general public that resulted in a public opinion poll on December 8, 2008 to 46% for the government against the coalition of three stooges.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross

            And those who supported the coalition have never forgiven Canadians for that.

            The Conservatives may not yet have comprehended how to convince a large swarth of socially-liberal, financially-conservative Canadians to support them — but the Liberals sure have unwittingly figured out how to drive them away.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            It depends how you define a large swath. I linked this earlier but is relevant to the movement of socially liberal, financially-conservative voters.

            In November 2009 the incumbent Government in the midst of a recession picked up fifty per cent of the seats in by-elections across Canada. (2/4) The Liberals were shut out. They lost ground in every contest except for the Independent Casey riding because they did not run a candidate last time.

            The CPC picked up a long held seat from the Separatists in Quebec.

            The Public opinion polls may state a closer horse race, but when it matters the loss of support in voters can not be dismissed or resolved by another empty suit at Liberal HQ. Votes are counted in Canada.

            Social Background Characteristics: The Shrinking Liberal Core
            The Liberals were able to coast to victory in 2000 with the support of two key groups:
            visible minorities and Catholics. By 2008, the Liberals could no longer count on their loyalty.
            The visible minority vote dropped 14 points between 2000 and 2004 (see Figure 2).3 The main
            beneficiary was the NDP. The Liberals did not lose any further ground in 2006, but in 2008, they
            lost a massive 19 points. And now it was the Conservatives who benefited. In fact, minority
            voters were almost as likely to vote Conservative in 2008 as they were to vote Liberal. http://ces-eec.org/pdf/Anatomy%20of%20a%20Liberal….

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross

            I'd be willing to wager that Harper himself would say that he said she shouldn't be allowed to PUBLISH that book.

            After 16 years, I'd be willing to wager that time has coloured Crean's recollection of Harper's remarks — if she's bothering to attempt to recollect them honestly in the first place.

            As for Lawrence Scanlan, this guy has the nerve to mine some rather insipid comments on democracy from a Holocaust survivor because he doesn't believe anyone would dare question the ideas of such an individual.

            It's actually quite contemptible.

  • Darrell

    Listen people, I'm the real Ignatiev, see I spelled it the old Russian Count way. I need to be PM, so I can finish my biography and make it more elitist the my Harvarrrrd buds.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/doug_rogers doug_rogers

      And Harper can write his hockey book and pretend he has friends.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

      Can't wait to hear what you have to say about Flaherty who went to Princeton, or Tim Powers (the sarcastic Con strategist who is related the the very, very wealth Crosbie family) who went to Harvard or Con MP Scott Reid who taught at a university in Australia (just visiting too I guess)………..want more?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross

        Did any of them take that as an opportunity to pass themselves off of citizens of said country (United States, Australia)?

        I disagree with the "Just Visiting" ads as much as anyone. But you are not comparing apples to apples.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

          Ligghten up for heavens sake the "just visiting comment was in jest.

          Some people just can't have any fun

  • Holly Stick

    Meanwhile Harper avoided questions about the crushing of civil rights during the G20 and about the stupid decision to destory the usefulness of the census and waste more taxpayers' money in the process.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

      Liberals should not talk about invoking a Police State to suspend democracy. October Crisis, Quebec 2001, APEC, G20 Toronto. In EVERY case a Liberal was in charge and asked for special powers.
      [youtube 5CWNKp0Uyyw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CWNKp0Uyyw youtube]

      • Emily

        Well the FLQ was ONE case, so don't get carried away. LOL

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross

          Sadly, Emily, the FLQ crisis featured "soldiers in our cities, with guns."

          Yet another Liberal Party canard revealed for precisely what it is.

      • Andrew (not P or C)

        Is CanadianSense soft on terror? Why does it hate our troops?

        • Emily

          I have no idea what it is doing. It doesn't seem to either.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

        They were terrorists and it stopped them in their tracks didn't it?

        Boy, you must keep a catalogue of negatives to try to make an argument – you fail

      • response

        So in your opinion it is justified because it has been done before? Interesting… also interesting is your assumption that anyone who offers an alternative perspective from your own is a Liberal…

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

          I cited actual evidence of the leader of the Liberal party from interviews prior to becoming a politician, you can pass your own judgment.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Sir_Francis Sir_Francis

      Harper avoided questions about the crushing of civil rights during the G20…

      That’s nothing. I’m still waiting for him to explain what he meant by “financial considerations”.

    • Blacktop

      What nonsense -"Crushing ofcivil rights." While many were "peaceful deomstrators" there were also a bunch of criminals who don't deserve to live in a democratic country. If others are so stupid as to put themselves in the middle of thaty trouble then too bad that they got their hair mussed. They weren't protesting the G20, they just brought along their uideologic bitches.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/amherstvw amherstvw

    Allan Gregg on TVO was talking to a US author tonight who seemed to like Obama … oh yeah, the book was something like "Game Changer".

    Apparently, Obama's is naturally "professorial" in his speech and this has apparently caused him extra problems with some of his key projects. The "fired up" Obama of the late campaign (of course) is much more suited to today's "sound clip based" news.

    Given PMSH's apparent need to read only tested lines from a prompter … the increasing ability of Mr Ignatieff to deliver tight, fired-up speeches might make a difference. He will still have to counter the dirty, lazy smears, though.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

      Dion and Ignatieff share the same problem. They spent 99% attacking the government without offering any credible alternatives since 2006. Can you link the alternative Bill(s) sponsored by the Official Opposition since 2006 demostrating the Liberals are prepared to lead again?

      They attack the Conservatives for running a $54 billion deficit. But they offer no indication that, in the face of the deepest recession since the 1930s, they would have done differently.

      [youtube 8JQq84nGBWU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JQq84nGBWU youtube]

      • Emily

        Harper voted for it at the G20….so don't blame it on anyone else. LOL

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

          The Prime Minister gave the order to not arrest the anti-Starbucks socialists in their ninja outfits? He than called to make arrests on Saturday night, he than ordered hundred rounded up and have them stand in the rain for hours?

          It is nice to see you confirm your conspiracy theory about the "evil right wing republican narrative" it worked out so well in 2006 and 2008.

          For G20 problems you should be looking to Dalton McGuinty, David Miller, Chief Blair.

          • Emily

            Harper voted for economic stimulus at the Bush G20 in Washington. Focus.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Are you busy re-writing the history books?

            [youtube vb9pjQ7zfi4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb9pjQ7zfi4 youtube]

          • Emily

            Actually my post is IN the history books.
            http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchiv…

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            [youtube 04Nl5NACLd0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Nl5NACLd0 youtube]

            NDP confirming LIBERALS supported the Conservative budget and betrayed their signed agreements with their coalition partners.

          • Emily

            Harper signed on to a stimulus at the Bush G20 in Washington.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            How is your math tonight? The CPC government are in a minority position and can not pass a single supply bill without at least one party providing support.

            Any idea what party supported the budget and the stimulus in parliament?

          • Emily

            You're not reading any of this are you….just blathering along posting rubbish without paying attention to what is being said to you.

            Harper signed on to a stimulus at the Bush G20 in Washington.

            That's a federal agreement with a foreign power. It's not open to a vote here.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Nice try focus again. The Liberals signed Kyoto but never lifted a finger to enact it. Liberals had a majority and could have passed laws.

            The Federal Government can sign anything but without support to pass an ACTUAL bill it means nothing.

            Sort of like the Glen Eagles Summit with Liberals promising to raise foreign aid but instead actually cut it for several years.

          • Emily

            Which has nothing whatever to do with the G20, stimulus spending, or even this century.

            If you don't know about the powers of the feds to sign treaties, don't whine to me Canadian Nonsense.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Emily try again.

            Minority parliament needed a political party willing to pass the budget. Since 2006 the Liberals have been supporting this Government in order to avoid an election.

            The agreement in Washington to spend money was not actionable without the willing cooperation and consent of the Liberal Party in Parliament.

            The CPC led government have only had a minority since defeating the Liberals in 2006.

            The box you created is of your own making. You can criticize the priorities of this minority government but you must also than blame the Liberals for supporting and voting for those policies.

          • Emily

            Listen dimbulb….the feds can sign a treaty with any foreign nation without it ever coming to Parliament.

            It has nothing to do with budgets. Or parties. Or your partisanship.

            Nor do budgets and foreign treaties have anything to do with this thread topic.

            You are fighting with the wrong people, over the wrong topic, on a thread that has nothing to do with your hobby horse.

            I suggest bed time.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Wow resorting to ad hominem attacks after failing to make any headway with your fantasy how governments work.

            Treaties signed are ignored on a regular basis. Did you miss that FACT?

            Do you understand how the Federal Government works and needs the confidence of the house to enact legislation?

            I hope this helps.
            http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/index.asp?language=E
            http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/AboutParl_Process.as…
            http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Sites/LOP/AboutParliament/…

          • Emily

            LOL now you're just babbling CanadianNonsense….I suggest bed.

            Treaties are never ignored…sorry.

            You've long since lost the plot line here.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            WOW, another insult.

            Final lesson for the evening Emily apparently your knowledge is much more limited than I imagined.

            Emily states "Treaties are never ignored…sorry."

            Ever hear of this?

            The Treaty of Versailles was the peace settlement signed after World War One had ended in 1918 and in the shadow of the Russian Revolution and other events in Russia. The treaty was signed at the vast Versailles Palace near Paris – hence its title – between Germany and the Allies.

            How did that work out, did Germany ignore it?

            Let's try some more current, maybe you missed all those history lessons about the World Wars.

            You may have missed the fact several Nations are NOT in compliance with the Land Mine Treaty they signed. http://www.icbl.org/index.php/icbl/Treaties/MBT/A…

            Compliance of Kyoto Protocol
            http://unfccc.int/kyoto_protocol/compliance/items…

            Have a good night Emily, best of luck again with your limited understanding of our Federal Government and History of the World.

          • Emily

            CanadianNonsense, go to bed. You need the rest.

            You're into gibberish, not trade treaties.

            I was elected twice.

            Have a nice night.

          • Blacktop

            wrong placement but see below

          • dpt

            elected twice? as what ? official man hating internet harpy?

          • Blacktop

            But then who elected you the policeman/woman of this p[lace?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Glen Eagles – summer of 2005 and by fall the Liberals were brought down.

          • Jan

            How can Harper can claim he whipped the recession with his EAP and at the same time blame Iggy for enabling the same spending? Little tricky, don't you think?

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            We call them partisan talking points Jan. Remember the comments from Ignatieff about the line in the sand for that $ 3 billion "slush fund" he won't approve without details?

            He let it pass without details.

            November Economic Update was threatened to be rejected in 2008 and the CPC were sent back to the drawing board to provide a substantial stimulative budget or lose confidence of parliament.

            http://www.economist.com/node/16060113

            The Liberals should be introducing alternatives in the minority parliament with their own agenda and let the Bloc and NDP weigh in on the best policy.

            If the minority government is unwilling to adopt the will of the majority of MPs they should have their confidence withdrawn.

            Nothing wrong with calling the bluff on either side or making your case before the people through a six week campaign.

            I have heard from both sides an election campaign will help create jobs and be another stimulus.

          • Blacktop

            Only after saying that stimulus has no real effect in the past. I think his Finance gurus got to him.

          • Jan

            Sorry, it was a Federal unit in charge of the security.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Can you link the "Federal Unit" in charge on those decisions to not arrest and arrest on Saturday and Sunday. This should be fun.

            Have you seen those F.O.I requests to get those orders on the ground and where they came from? I look forward to having the Liberal Premier, Mayor of Toronto, Police Chief of Toronto explain the chain of command and the rules of engagement on the ground for the police.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M

          • Jan

            It's the Intergrated Security Unit – same one that was in charge of the security at the Olympics. The commanding officer was RCMP and he ran everything from a command centre in Barrie.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            You are on the record with stating a guy located in Barrie command centre was making those decisions on the ground in Toronto?

            I am still waiting for those links to back up your point.

          • Jan

            They have this thing called Google. Dead easy to find. Good practice for you.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Sir_Francis Sir_Francis

            You are on the record with stating a guy located in [a] Barrie command centre was making those decisions…

            You are on the record with an apparent ignorance of the invention of the telephone.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

            Apparently the concept of jurisdiction of the law enforcement is beyond your grasp.

            Do you have any clue on how security, policing is actually done or are you acting an apologist for the camp in the left with your rant?

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Anticipated mandate and responsibility of the Toronto Police:

            * Jurisdictional duties in Toronto including participation in motorcades.
            * Traffic safety on impacted road networks
            * Toronto Police Service
            * Crowd management
            * Crime management
            * To secure the outer perimeter of the MTCC Controlled Access Zone and all other Toronto CAZ areas for guests of the Canadian government at the Summit
            * Assistance to the RCMP upon request
            * Providing specialized services such as:
            * Explosive Disposal Unit
            * Canine Unit
            * Underwater Search and Rescue
            * Marine patrol
            * Obstruction Removal Team
            * Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear and Explosives Team
            * Law enforcement through the Public Order Unit
            * Emergency Response Team
            * Joint intelligence coordination
            * Unified command participation with the RCMP
            * Liaison to municipal government

            In Deer Hurst the OPP had —- LOCAL —– jurisdiction. In BC the RCMP had local jurisdiction during the Olympics.

            You refuse to accept the concept of jurisdiction, division of power and responsibility. Sorry Jan making stuff up might be acceptable for those in the camps of the left, but you need links to back up your claims.
            http://www.g8-g20isu.ca/g20/secur-eng.htm

          • Blacktop

            I think that's right. In BC the RCMP are contracted as Provincial police and exercise that mandate. They are also contracted as municipal police and exercise the municipal mandate. Over all there are units who act as national police. When you are talking about BC you have to know which jurisdiction yopu are talking about, hence different mandates. But the collar can be turned in a flash, I suspect..

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Each force has their jurisdiction, the Airport was covered by Peel Region.

            The disconnect for the rabid left, or anti-Harper forces is they can't see the truth anymore. Here is a great article that sums up the anti-Harper forces on these blogs.
            http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/seco…

            "You spend all your time chronicling the government's many sins – every hint of arrogance, every scandalous expenditure, every missed opportunity. You have a mental note of every misstep by its underqualified ministers, and every mistruth they utter. You're on the receiving end of every underhanded tactic to consolidate the government's hold on power. After a while, you become convinced that there is nothing more important than replacing it at the earliest opportunity. …you make the mistake of thinking that your average voter – who doesn't have the same vested interest, and isn't immersed in the government's day-to-day foibles – feels the same way."

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

        Oh CanadianNonsense – give it a rest. Using the Tory talking points is getting to be quite a bore. Besides, how accurate has Harper been so far?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

          The opposition — in this case the Liberals — has no interest in abandoning petty politics based on innuendo and character assassination. That means it’s up to the government — in this case the Conservatives — to move beyond the poisoned environment that has characterized Canadian politics for the past 10 years.
          http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/stephenharper/…

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            See folks – you answer CanadianSense and you get bombarded with this garbage.

            Say, CanadianSense – do you know what MP got caught spitting on the sidewalk in 1902?

            You are ridiculous.

            What you don't seem to understand is that people can google, etc. and find out for themselves and get pretty bored with this cut and paste nonsense.

            Again, give it a rest – others sites have waved you off.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

    Well, I for one am impressed with this tour…. Frankly, I was uncertain that Ignatieff was physically fit enough for a full blown campaign. I guess the partisan Conservative propaganda worked on me as well; I had some doubts about how Ignatieff would connect in one-one, small crowd interactions.

    He is clearly enjoying this tour and remarkably in recent photos and videos looks younger than he did a few months ago. It is quite remarkable that the academic superstar, and former media celebrity is clearly more comfortable in small, unscripted formats contrasted to his unfortunately stiffness in staged presentations. He is the opposite of Harper in that respect, who really does perform well in scripted TV spots.

    • JoeC

      I think getting out of the Ottawa bubble is good for everyone. More oxygen.

      • burlivespipe

        If leaving the bubble increases better decision making, I dare say open the doors! Of course, when you've tinfoiled your whole room some people will never see the light.

  • knick

    Ignatieff really seems to be enjoying himself on this marathon junket. Odd for someone who, as we've been told time and time again by the 'experts', doesn't 'connect' with the general public. Meanwhile the guy who, as we've been told time and time again by the 'experts', does 'connect' with the general public is enjoying the solitude of Harrington Lake.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/canon70 canon70

      With opinion pieces like the following, it's no wonder he is in hiding.
      http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/power/333935…

      • chet

        Has Susan Riley ever had an opinion piece flattering to Harper?

        I'd be shocked to see one.

        That some folks believe that a partisan leftist attacking their political foe is some sort of guage for things, is surprising.

    • chet

      Emphasis on your word "seems".

      He practically announced that "this is the bus tour where I'll look like a commoner".

      Oh wait, only Harper engages in political calculus. Iggy's intentions are as white as the Ivory tower from where he came.

      • knick

        "He practically announced that "this is the bus tour where I'll look like a commoner"."

        Link?

  • ddd

    I'm curious. Is Ignatieff turning conservatives, or shoring Liberals? Giving a good speech is great. One would hope that a politician would have that ability. Who is showing up to listen? Are there a bunch of local candidates showing up to ride on his coattails?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/VinceClortho VinceClortho

      Not all of them have a natural ability. In fact political speeches are quite unnatural things.

      In a damning indictment, not so much of Ignatieff (since all candidates need to learn how to be a retail pol), but of his previous aides and the Liberal party that thought you could run just anyone no matter their experience. Iggy ddint know what he didnt know, and that was quite a bit. It was the natural governing party disease, I have long said they needed to ban that phrase within the party.

      There may be some hope yet, as I prefer a competitive political system. It tends to raise everyones game.

      Now, this is summer and these are basic skills. But without being able to do a simple tour and give nice speeches the Liberals were completely lost. None of this means they will do any better, but it probably means they have stopped getting worse. All hail Donolo

      • Blacktop

        I prefer when they get rid of the so-called advisors, spin doctors, psychologists and particularly ex reporters, advertising types and so on. They and so-called political scientists are bound up with images, polls. What I's like to see is a real person of integrity, the type who can handle people, crowds, and still stick to what he/she believes in. I think the people are not stupid and see the phoniness that these advisors project so that it is difficult to really see the man/woman who is running. The last time I saw such a oerson it was Harry Truman.

        Maybe Ignatieff iis doing the right thing to expose himself to real people. But then again, how many of the people he sees are just stacked their bythe local Liberal machine?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/VinceClortho VinceClortho

          I hear you. Yet I think the best advisors dont change their candidate but try to highlight their real strengths. I dont believe you can ultimately be something you arent over the medium term. It is too exhausting and we have seen time and time again how the real person inevitably emerges, for good or ill.

          As for exposing Iggy to real people, its a good move…both for him and for the elctorate. 1) He had been locked away in "elite cosmopolitan world" for decades. That has its advantages but you might be rusty outside of that world…2) Ottawa is not Ontario, and Ontario isnt Canada. So once again, you need the experience and they need to experience him. If the latter part fails, well better now than in an election, this is for any candidate.

          Once again, any progress MI makes is an indictment on the previous chiefs of staff and advisory team. They would like to say he was unmouldable. This doesnt mean Donolo can create "David" hear, since I beleive there is still a way to go. But the previous crew couldnt make ANY progress

          • Blacktop

            I am not a party peron obviously. In fact I rather liked Ignatieff when he first appeared on the scene. Yes, I suppose anyone with guts can maintain his real persona. My experience with the media was not extensive but I had enough that it made me want to puke. They just want to sell space and see their name on it. There are a few with some sense of proportion and dignity and some of them blog here. If he meets and talks to "real people"and not just what his handlers want. I suspect those same people will see a real leader. If they see a puppet they will back off quickly.
            I think the same would happen with Harper. If they are a bit wooden then obviously they must be puppets. I think Harper has got away from that but sometimes he speaks his mind only to have his handlers say no. I think the stimulus thing is part of that because, as an economist , he knows that stimuli may work for a minute but casue more dislocations ion the long run.

            But I like what I see when they get out and press the flesh. My limited experience is that the press are just waiting for a slip-up, a line just to justify their per diem. I once had a BBC guy tell me that the only reason they covered Royal Tours was because a plane might crash and they would be there to ghoul the story.

        • burlivespipe

          "The last time I saw such a oerson it was Harry Truman."

          C'mon, you gotta credit Pearson for being the Canadian version of the unchangeable and au naturale candidate.

          • Blacktop

            Yes, I suppose so. He has been made a great Liberal hero but he was part of the very left wing liberal mandarins that ran Canada before he went political. . I think it should be noted for his softness over the Herbert Normans affair mainly because of his former association. . Although Norman was said to be a card carrying communist by McCarthy, Pearson defended him and soought to revover him from Beirut where he had gone after the accusation was in the op-en.(He had been ambassador . Pearson stood up for him but Norman dived off a roof in Beirut before we cool;d pick him up.
            (see http://www.canadianmysteries.ca/sites/norman/home…

            But Pearson had the heart of most Canadians with his äw shucks" personality. But he had a hidden side which I saw a few times while ferrying him here and there. Of course he was not campaigning at that time. I always thought of him more as a cikvil servant because he actually never did go really political. Which Harry Truman certainly was from the day his tie shop went broke.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Sir_Francis Sir_Francis

            …he was part of the very left wing liberal mandarins that ran Canada before he went political.

            The mandarins put in place by Mackenzie King throughout the 30's and 40's, including Pearson, were actually not left-wing by any reasonable standard. These were the people who, through loyalty to King, acquiesced in his sabotage of R.B. Bennett's version of the New Deal which formed the basis of the Conservative Party's campaign of 1935. King's Liberals were heavily anti-Keynesian, anti-interventionist, and de-centralist. It was the total mobilisation that was required to fight the war and C.D. Howe's virtual nationalisation of all industry, rather than any inherent left-wing bias, that turned the Liberal mandarinate into interventionists.

          • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

            About the Norman Affair, Pearson stood up for the man more because he had been the object of a program of vile character assassination on the part of the loathsome McCarthy than out of personal loyalty (Norman and Pearson had not been very close). The loudest outrage over the affair actually came from the Conservatives, who demanded swift Canadian retaliation for what they considered an unacceptable example of American interference in Canada's domestic affairs. In fact, the Norman Affair is often cited as the trigger for a new era of anti-Americanism (particularly in the Conservative Party), something that had lain dormant throughout the Second World War.

          • Blacktop

            Both posts must be the historical version. Not the way I remember it. Norman was a close colleague of Pearson. And most of the great Liberal social achievements were certainly left wing by the standards of the time and were developed and instigated by the mandarins as the politicians thought they could afford them. Post war there was a real fear that the CCF was getting too strong and might actually get in. Groundless fear, of course. . I don't know where you get the RB Bennets version stuff. He was all for choking everything off. Remember the Bennet Buggy? It was as symbolic of Canada's depression as Grapes of Wrath was in the US. And I don't know who wrote history you read but it does not check out against reality in my opiniion. In fact I have found that the history written by historians often does not match up with the reality of the time. One should add "History according to. . . .".
            I respect that you must be well-read. If you are then you must be familiar with thät adage. I too took a fair amount of Canadian history and my prof, the late Lt. Gov of Nova Scotia warned us about that., and that you must go to original documents if possible. Just as you can often not trust what you read in the newspapers

            Our attempt to recover Norman failed because he jumped. He was told he was homefree but still did it. Why? Probably because he WAS vulnerable.

          • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

            There's nothing uncomplicated or arcane here. Bennett's 1935 program was heavily interventionist, and Bennett went into the election after having broadcast a series of radio speeches announcing that laiseez-faire capitalitsm as Canada had known it was finished and that the Conservatives were now the party of economic reform (rather prescient, actually). In fact, a break-away Conservative, H.H. Stevens, formed an even more interventionist party, the Reconstruction Part, in order to push for a even broader Canadian version of the New Deal.

            Mackenzie King' Liberals argued that Bennett's program was outside Dominion jurisdiction—a constitutionally correct objection that was later backed up by the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council—and ran a campaign based on economic orthodoxy. There was nothing fiscally “left-wing” about the Liberals until the early ‘fifties. C.D. Howe was about as arch-capitalist as it was possible to be. Liberal interventionism was a strictly post-war phenomenon.

            Probably because he WAS vulnerable.

            Norman's main vulnerability was that he was gay.

          • Blacktop

            Interesting. I didn't know that. And that was not acceptable then.

            You have your view, I favour what I knew then. I am not so sure about RB Bennett. When I was a kid in the depression he was blamed for doing a Hoover and not helping things at all. M. King recovered power on the basis of Bennett's record. But then this whole thing is straying off the point of the thread. . I'll concede that Pearson was publicly the guy next door who like base ball etc. But I still like Harry as the real guy of the people. End.

          • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

            But I still like Harry as the real guy of the people.

            Diefenbaker comes close to Truman on that score.

            Truman was a much better politician and party leader, of course—though I think it might be slightly unfair to judge a Democrat who piggy-backed on an electoral and bureaucratic machine created by FDR and a guy who was thrust atop an Ottawa technocracy that had been built almost entirely by an alien Liberal Laurier/King/St. Laurent axis.

          • Blacktop

            I think to each it was the only way to go And yes, Dief the Chief had the common touch for sure. He was always very kind to those that carried him – but that is just my experience. I remember him before he was PM and he was straight up and made you proud to be a Canadian when his lib colleagues were sloshed out of their minds in the Shannopn terminal. One eminent lady when she saw us asked if we were based in Ireland!

          • Blacktop

            But then later I guess he was a leadership disaster.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Sir_Francis Sir_Francis

            I remember him before he was PM and he…made you proud to be a Canadian when his lib colleagues were sloshed out of their minds in the Shannopn terminal.

            Heh. Dief was teetotal (like any good Baptist). When he had to socialise with drinkers (e.g. Alpha-male Tories and Bay Street types like George Hees and Grattan O’Leary), he would carry a glass of scotch around strictly for show. One glass would last him all night and would be poured back into the bottle at the end of the evening.

          • Blacktop

            The issue for me wasn't whether one was dry or wet but how the person treated underlings. Dief was a gentleman, drinker, baptist or whatever. The ones that made me be ashamed were drunken slobs who couldn't wait until the plane was safely off the ground before they headed for the keg. And then lived it up in foreign lands as if nobody could see them. Where was the press then?

      • ddd

        >stopped getting worse

        Pretty low bar. I'm wondering if the speech Wherry is referring to is what I heard snippets of on CBC where he managed to call me a fool for not enjoying filling lengthy government forms.

  • geo

    "Then it was back into a waiting car, bound for the airport. He’s due at a Tim Horton’s in Grand Falls, New Brunswick tomorrow morning at 9:15."

    Air Bus?

  • chet

    Wherry's been focusing laser like on Clement these days,

    but when he jumps in dangerous waters to save a drowning woman….birds chirping.

    Yet here his his, mentioning the brave Iggy holding a woman's hand for a minute… in front of the press gallery, that is.

    • Ex-Pat Nflder

      You got it chet, the liberal media have decided they love Iggy again,i have been watching how they are turning out all the stories how Iggy is really finding his way and how at ease he is with people he meets,the liberal media are trying to set the stage for Iggy for PM, the worse thing is there are a lot of stupid people out there that will buy into the crap the liberal media are selling. Don't buy it people Iggy is just another liberal looking out for himself and his crimnal pals in the liberal party.

  • chet

    Interesting how the focus of the tour seems to be all about his image. Like there is some pressing need to rebrand him.

    I wonder what gave them that silly idea.

    I also wonder if they think one barbecue tour in the middle of summer, where the only people paying attention are diehard politicos that go to this site, will accomplish anything of the sort.

    • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

      You may be looking for substance (beef) where none exists?

      An adult conversation is not on the radar for the Liberal Party. They have stated because the Conservatives released their platform slowly the last time, they will repeat the Conservative strategy.

      They also cite how the Green Shift was unfairly attacked and they won't repeat the same mistake of allowing the CPC to define the next Liberal leader or his platform.

      Only during the official campaign will Liberals share their wonderful ideas on how to save Canada from the global recession. Until than they will attack and than whip 30 Liberals to skip the actual votes that might cause an election.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

    Actually, she never criticized Layton – I have my suspicions there

  • Cam

    She was scared of count Iggy- its that simple.

  • Ex-Pat Nflder

    Wherry or Wells same liberal garbage,working real hard to sell you Iggy as PM material.I allways thought that Mcleans was more middle of the road when it came to politics,but it appears to me its getting that same liberal slant that the rest of the Canadian media has always had.Come on Sun TV, its at the point where i can't find news without the liberal slant and its time to expose these jerks for what they are.

  • Guest

    I happen to know the 'woman who fainted'. She is a gracious woman in her mid-seventies who, after losing consciousness and falling down 3 stairs and landing on her face against the hard cement, was rushed to hospital where she remained in intensive care for 4 or 5 days. She is still in hospital awaiting surgery as a result of the fall and other complications. Hours after the incident, Mr. Ignatieff called her from the Bus to see how she was feeling. His genuine and warm concern was greatly appreciated.

  • elw

    I am that "middle aged woman" referenced and I can tell you I was very happy to have been graciously spoken to by Mr. Ignatieff followed by calls from him, from his team and by the local candidate, Max Khan, and Debbie McGill, Fiona Fraser, Wendy Bodnoff, the Everitts and many others who demonstrate the future of Canada is one of a "gentler, kinder civil society", Thank you to all who demonstrated this to me and my family. P.S. Universal health care is amazing!

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