Inkless Wells

Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW
He also offers his thoughtful perspective of Stephen Harper’s last 10 years in his recent eBook, The Harper Decade.

Trivia

by Paul Wells on Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:58am - 0 Comments

Compare and contrast:

I’ve been mystified by Stephen Harper’s willingness to squander so much political capital on an issue as trivial as the long-form census. Only slightly less so by the media’s piling on, treating this as a matter of great national importance, and by the level of emotional investment so many apparently attach to census-gathering.

The opposition? They’re just reveling in the unexpected bounty of low-hanging political fruit, and Tory self-inflicted injury.

I don’t get it. It’s just not that big a deal – either way.

— Charles W. Moore, New Brunswick Telegraph Journal, today

Stephen Harper seeks to diminish or destroy the Liberal Party to replace them with the Conservatives as Canada’s default choice for government. His greatest challenge is to dismantle the modern welfare state. If it can’t be measured, future governments can’t pander.

— Blogger Stephen Taylor, July 22.

That’s the choice, I suppose. Either what the Harper government is doing with the long-form census doesn’t matter, or it does. Obviously Moore has a lot more company than Taylor does. Indeed, lately Moore’s company includes Taylor: since July 22 this whole business has gotten too hot for Stephen’s liking and in his blog and on Twitter he’s joined the nobody-cares crowd, arguing that this whole business is an invention of the “push media,” by which he means news organizations that cover a story he doesn’t like for longer than he likes.

But clearly Stephen Harper thinks it matters, because he has burned two useful ministers, Tony Clement and Stock Day, rather badly in advancing this little project. And I take Taylor’s July 22 post to be an example of the disarming frankness that makes him an easy guy to like. The whole post is worth a look. In his trademark prose style, Taylor describes Harper “integrating seemingly transactional initiatives into something transformative.” You see, the country is suspiciously full of “net tax receiving organizations.” Harper, Taylor writes, “has tried the ideological argument against these groups for years. But ideology is by its nature debatable; removing the framework of debate is his shortcut to victory.”

Removing the framework of debate? “If one day we have no idea how many divorced Hindu public transit users there are in East Vancouver, government policy will not be concocted to address them specifically.” This would be, Taylor adds, “a huge blow to the welfare state.”

This seems to me entirely more credible as a motivator than Clement’s and Day’s late-breaking concern for jackbooted census thugs hauling Jewish or many-bedroomed citizens off to the stockade for failing to divulge their pertinent information. And indeed, to say the least, there’s precedent for this analysis of the way things work, or could: that major social change happens incrementally and through stealth, rather than through the kind of romantic Thatcherite Big Fight for which some of my colleagues are so often nostalgic.

Indeed, Harper and his associates have for decades argued, with considerable accuracy, that comparable change-by-stealth was the preferred method of the Liberal party in power. Harper’s first chief of staff, Ian Brodie, wrote a doctoral thesis and book arguing that “the Canadian government” used the Court Challenges Program (since cancelled by Harper) to advance the agenda of “disadvantaged groups” in Charter challenges. Brodie cites Ted Morton and Rainer Knopff and their pioneering study of what they dubbed the “Court Party,” a loose-knit, like-minded set of “networks of activists and professionals” that “bring together social reform-minded professionals and academics in public interest groups, government departments, independent government agencies, the criminal bar, and the law schools.”

I think this next bit is key. “Morton and Knopff’s central observation is that the Court Party is a political minority in Canada,” Brodie wrote. “Electoral politics is therefore not an advantageous arena for them. The Court Party prefers to advance its agendas through institutions that are insulated from electoral politics. The courts, quasi-judicial tribunals, and the administrative arms of government are arenas where the Court Party’s professional skills and abilities can make up for their lack of electoral support.”

Electoral politics was, of course, advantageous to the Liberal Party of Canada during the early 1980s and most of the 1990s. But Brodie argues that Liberal governments very often preferred not to fight their social fights in the open (in this, by the way, he is joined by many other observers; Chantal Hébert made the same case often during the late Chrétien years). A little help to the Court Party’s assorted representatives went a long way. “The Canadian government has encouraged groups to litigate in Canada, particularly through the Court Challenges Program. It therefore casts doubt on the concept of the disadvantaged group itself.”

The purest expression of this line of argument on Parliament Hill came in 2003, from Opposition Leader Stephen Harper. Ontario judge Roy McMurtry had handed down his ruling permitting same-sex marriage. Harper argued the Liberals had plotted for a very long time to produce precisely this result. “They wanted to introduce this same-sex marriage through back channels,” Harper said then. “They had the courts do it for them, put the judges in they wanted, then they failed to appeal, failed to fight the case in court.”

But reporters protested: Roy McMurtry was a lifelong Progressive Conservative, appointed by Mulroney. “Well, he’s a former Tory,” Harper said. “But whether he’s conservative or not is a matter of terminology.”

Some readers will think this long digression into Supreme Court-land takes me pretty far off topic, as some readers did when I wrote a whole column pointing out that Court Party co-author Rainer Knopff and a similarly-minded colleague worked on the committee that picked the next governor general. The GG isn’t a court, the census isn’t a court challenge. But I think most readers will see how Harper’s longstanding fascination with “back channels” as a means for advancing the agenda of actors who constitute “a political minority in Canada” and for whom “electoral politics is not an advantageous arena” plays, not only in the census battle, but in much of what he has done as Prime Minister.

So, like the Stephen Taylor of three weeks ago, I believe the census fight is absolutely at the centre of what Harper is trying to accomplish as prime minister.

One last thought. Taylor is (was?) sure the ultimate goal of all this manoeuvering is to “dismantle the welfare state.” It’s entirely possible to suppose that, at least over the medium term, which could last decades and indeed maybe forever, the real result would simply be the realignment of massive state action to serve the electoral interests of the Conservative Party. If one day we have no idea how many rock-ribbed family-values farmers and small tradesmen of Icelandic, Ukrainian, Scottish and Irish descent there are between Kenora and Kelowna, it will be easy enough for Tony Clement and Stockwell Day to claim there are 147 million of them and every one needs a tool-belt tax credit and a little something extra to help raise the kids. That choice, of course, will come later. First Stephen Harper believes he must kick out the slats of the world the Liberals have been building since Trudeau.

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  • SHWM

    "Taylor is (was?) sure the ultimate goal of all this manoeuvering is to “dismantle the welfare state."

    Of course. The man who just spend fifty billion on stimulus, who has massively increased program spending, who has increased the size of the public service and given them healthy raises, and who can't throw bags of cash at provinces in the name of equalization fast enough, wants to dismantle the welfare state, something that has never been done anywhere in the world.

    I suppose it's possible, but here is the thing about Harper: he is a demagogue, which is the exact opposite of a dictator. It is said that a demagogue is one who says things he knows to be untrue to people he knows to be idiots. It is also said that democracy is the belief that the people know what is best for them and they deserve to get it – good and hard. Harper really, really likes being PM, and the best way to keep his job is to pander like a mofo, which is what he is doing and has done for the past 3+ years. Sure, Harper may want to dismantle the welfare state, he might also want to sleep with Megan Fox, and the latter has a much better chance of happening, as long as we live in a (pseudo) democracy.

  • Thwim

    Yeah, that's my overall feeling as well. The risk is pretty minimal in either event. I do think it's slightly more if we're relying on combining information from separate institutions, not to mention has additional overhead costs, but that still doesn't move it beyond minimal. The entire argument seems to be either a red herring or a paranoiac's rantings.

  • no more non-partisan

    Harper is thinking long term. He believes that with the growth in Asian economies the world is going to be a more competitive place in all respects- economic, academic etc and that Canada is not prepared for this future. Our society and our businesses are "fat and lazy"- see our immovable productivity numbers. He is moving us toward are more competitive position (Europe is doing the same thing but as result of their economic circumstances). Smaller government more competitive enterprises, less group rights and more individual rights. (The census is all about group rights) This move will include dropping corporate welfare- a la Coyne. We have too many protected industries (telecom, media, agriculture) and protected labour. There are not enough entrepreneurs among us to maintain our prosperity. The European model has hit the wall and that is where we were headed prior to 2006. (Actually Martin had been trying to point the ship in the right direction but lost to the other view within the Liberal party). Meanwhile we should enjoy the ride. The "groups" represented by the Court Party and the corporate interests will scream as Canada becomes fit for prosperity in the future.

    • NorthernPoV

      Provide evidence that Harper is instituting SMALLER gov't, please.

  • Leigh

    Some of the invvestigations into what lead to some of the financial disasters of recent years said that leaders surrounded by echo chambers fell off the cliff.

  • http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

    Intearlligent?

  • JamesHalifax

    I'm a big fan of getting rid of the welfare state.

    If one can work….and chooses not to. Please feel free to starve. I don't care until I am forced to pay for your laziness.

    If someone in Canada has a car, a TV, a cell phone, and a Sony Play station………and still claims to be victim of circmustances requiring Government (read: MY) help…….sorry, you are NOT poor. You just make bad decisions and act irresponsibly.

    And that is YOUR fault….not mine.

    Social assitance is meant for the genuinely needy needy…..not the lazy.

  • Holly Stick

    "…So I'm here trying to raise the level of discussion, while others engage in name-calling, etc…"
    Look in the mirror, hypocrite.

    • zalmox

      Hmmm. Below in this thread you claimed not be responding to my comments because they '"are not interesting" – evidently, though, you find them interesting enough to follow them for days on end through the thickets of one of the longest threads on the boards right now! In any case, look above and you'll see that whereas I cite actual academic sources, and engage other commentators' arguments line-by-line, you've actually added nothing substantive whatsoever beyond more name-calling. Now, if you had actually tried to defend Leigh by discussing some of the primary sources which he claims to have read, that would have been substantive. But I'm sure you've never actually read any of them either.

  • Leigh

    I know one thing that you don't know. How to be polite.

    • zalmox

      Yeah, I'm not really worried about that in thread full of people who randomly throw around words like "liar", "faker", "hypocrite", et.c, all the while giving absolutely no evidence whatsoever of having any knowledge of the subject they're commenting on, and are unwilling or unable to provide any substantive information besides these kinds of random accusations and baseless assertions. In any case, you haven't provided a single argument, citation or piece of evidence. If you want to engage primary sources, excellent. Again: I can cite relevant passages from Sein Und Zeit if you like, and then we can analyze them to see whose claims they bear out. Or, you can make cite something yourself. Or, just continue to lie on groundless assertions and empty insults.

  • http://www.torytattler.blogspot.com ToryTattler

    I started saying this on July 17th via Twitter and on my blog…well before Taylor admitted it. It's all about slashing social spending…and I'm glad the media are coming around to talking about it. Keep on it Wells…this is much bigger than a question about bathrooms or jackboots.

    I guess the "hidden agenda" is back on the table.

  • http://tigeronpolitics.wordpress.com Ben (The Tiger)

    Pretty accurate, I think.

  • http://www.robedger.blogspot.com/ Robin_E

    This is one of the best blog posts on Canadian politics that I have ever read.

  • Anon 001

    Stephen Harper does not want to dismantle the welfare state. He just wants it to work for his friends. The guy has the most bloated Cabinet and PMO staff in history. He is not against welfare. He is against it going to people who do not vote for him.

  • Eas Coas

    What I've been trying to decipher about Stephen Harper since the 2008 coalition crisis is exactly WHAT his vision is for this country. I buy that he wants to destroy the Liberal Party and I buy that he wants to make this country lean more to the right, perhaps even make it more like the US.

    What I don't understand is: why?

    What merit does he see in these changes? This is not a rhetorical question; I'm not a liberal (or a Liberal) trying to offer puzzlement as an argument. I genuinely want to know what he thinks is the good in all of this.

    Does he want a more laissez-faire (spelling?) approach to economics? A more free market? If so, what's wrong with the one we have now; you know, the one that famously just kicked that recession in the ass?

    Does he want to pander more to the Jewish community, as the Rights and Democracy debacle suggests (among other things)? Is that purely an electoral move? If not, to what end?

    Does he want to make his office resemble that of the POTUS? Fine, but that in itself does not explain the major shifts he is trying to make.

    This is probably an elementary question easily answered by anyone who has followed Harper closely throughout his career, but I'd love for Paul Wells or any one of this magazine's fine bloggers (and commenters) to enlighten me here. What is so majorly broken about this country that Stephen Harper wants to see fixed?

  • zalmox

    Oh, I don't believe that "math" or "science" are anything less than neutral. That's why math and science departments are overwhelmingly male and white, with a smattering of Asians thrown in (though, in relative terms, the Asians of course outstrip the whites by miles). Nothing will confirm gender and racial stereotypes for you like test scores in math and science. That's why feminists, "critical race theorists", "queer theorists" and other left-wing interest groups in the soft sciences and humanities have been denouncing science for decades – cause if you took it as seriously as the people on these boards are claiming, you'd realize, there's a pretty "objective" reason why white men rule this country (although, of course, also an objective reason why the world will be ruled by Chinese men in the not-too-distant future).

  • http://tigeronpolitics.wordpress.com Ben (The Tiger)

    See the first chapter of Right Side Up, if you want to give Wells money. Otherwise, start googling around for articles written by Harper and Flanagan in the 1990s. Or read Harper's Team, Flanagan's book from 2006 about the campaigns he did for Harper.

    Basic insight: diminishing returns once the government gets over a certain percentage of GDP. (A level much lower than it is now.). Basic tactical insight: can't get there from here until the natural governing party is on the centre-right and not the centre-left.

    He is aiming to transform Canadian electoral alliances/alignments. If you want to use American presidential comparisons, he is our Nixon. Preparing the electoral coalition that can then be won later by our Reagan.

  • saskboy

    Harper simply doesn't see enough wealth going to the righteous oil barons of the West, so he's opposed to anyone standing in his mission to bring a more perfect economy to hard working rich people. Everything he does, from playing the piano, to shaking his son's hand, ties into that long term mission. Don't let the distracting details confuse that obvious truth. Everything is a pawn to be played and scarified for the greater good of the economy which currently benefits the wealthy more than those with less.

  • Remain Calm

    I've often wondered this myself. In particular, I have wondered whether he is operating at a gut level rather than from a carefully thought out master plan.

  • knick

    This is another question for which I have yet to find an answer. I sometimes think that Harper is simply delusional. But I also sometimes think that someone like him was bound to turn up sooner or later to test the resolve of the general public to preserve and protect those Canadian values that can seem somewhat vague and easily manipulated in the wrong hands. If nothing else, he has gotten more of us thinking about what it would mean if he ever managed to pull off his major redo of this country.

  • Wascally Wabbit

    Frankly, I find Stephen Taylor's (and ultimately Harper's) argument presumptive and flawed.
    Since Stephen Taylor – in a CBC P&P interview a few weeks ago – designated himself a Libertarian (but just not as absolute a Libertarian as the other talking head on with him – whose name I forget – but I think it was Rosie Barton that ran the interview – so it would have been in the last 2 weeks) – his fundamental premise is that government is too big.
    So – let's look at Taylor's ideal world – where the Federal government just runs the Armed Forces and a DFAIT-lite – Oh – and of course sets the rules for Law and Order!
    Let's say Taylor gets into a squabble about access to his property – doesn't want police coming to his door. He fights back and sues – but he's fighting government (and doesn't have the skills to make his case) – not so big government for sure – but an entity with much deeper pockets than him. Then he discovers – by serendipity (or through Stats Can data) that others are in the same boat. (cont.)

  • John W.

    No Republican right wing ideology is a big part of it. Not just self interest as you say. Harper is sincere. He wants small ineffective government. He's not in it to switch the largesse around.

  • c_9

    Wow. I'm not really sure where to go with this. I would I guess just suggest you go visit a company that is primarily science-based in its operations (as opposed to human behaviour based, so Atomic Energy of Canada Limited instead of BMO, for example – two places I have been). The halls are filled with many more ethnic backgrounds than you suggest, for one. I feel anecdotally that gender is a different story, but I personally have no data on that.

    Honestly, I can't figure out if this is parody, racism, or an actual argument. But I was talking about actual facts and math, not the people that use them.

  • LynnTO

    I can only hope your rant was a steaming heap of sarcasm, because otherwise, I'm just left to refer to it as a steaming heap of something else.

    There's evidence to suggest increased enrollment among other things, allows the lower-scoring group an opportunity to improve their skills and equalize their test scores, decreasing any (in this case) gender gap in brains.

    No one group is inherently more stupid than another – with, I would think, the exception of people who are wilfully ignorant. But that's an equal-opportunity sport.

  • Joseph

    Actually, it's not that straightforward.

    You should read up on the well known psychological phenomenon of Stereotype Threat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat ). It's been shown that, for instance, women perform more poorly on the same math test when told in advance that males usually do better on this test, than when told that males and females normally do the same. Given that the popular cultural stereotype is that math is for boys, it is not at all surprising then that girls don't do as well and are discouraged from these departments.

    This also could very well be the case of correlation rather than causation. Just because more women choose not to go into the Maths and Sciences, by no means does that mean they're actually worse at it. Rather, it could easily be due to preferences. Women may just prefer areas of research that are more social in nature. See this article for more rebuttals of the women are bad at math argument ( http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/595540 ).

    As for the Asians, I'm inclined to think their success has much less to do with race and everything to do with a cultural upbringing of traditional Confucian values that encourage study and intellectual pursuits to a far greater degree than stereotypical North American cultural values of football and partying. Anyone who's compared how much more competitive the school systems in East Asia are, will tell you it's all about the cultural influences. And as an Asian who is arguably bad at math, I can tell you the racial stereotype itself, simply isn't true.

  • http://scottdiatribe.canflag.com/ Scott_Tribe

    That would be Mike Brock of the Western Standard.

  • hollinm

    Wascally Wabbit……….you forget that most of the power via the constitution is in the hands of the provinces. The federal governement's powers are rather limited. The feds simply try to force their will (social policy) on the provinces through the control of the money. However, as we saw with the national daycare attempt by Martin if the provinces don't want to do it they will promise anything to get the money and then blame the feds when it doesn't work, cry there wasn't enough money or simply ignore them.
    Yes the feds can offer moral suasion but given the make up of the country, the strength of individual premiers i.e. Danny Williams there is little the feds can do to inflict their view of the country on the provinces.

  • Olaf

    Let's say Taylor gets into a squabble about access to his property – doesn't want police coming to his door. He fights back and sues – but he's fighting government (and doesn't have the skills to make his case) – not so big government for sure – but an entity with much deeper pockets than him. Then he discovers – by serendipity (or through Stats Can data) that others are in the same boat. (cont.)

    I, for one, will be fascinated to find out where you could possibly be going with this, because so far this sounds like something my uncle would say three quarters of the way into a bottle of Jack.

  • zalmox

    There are no "anecdotes" here. The percentage of female faculty in the hard sciences in universities is much lower than in the soft sciences and humanities (science departments are on average about 70% male), and this is consistent with the fact that women have lower test scores at the high end of math and science (men dominate both the low and high end of the test scores). Just facts there. As for many more ethnic backgrounds – again, the numbers relating to university faculty and test scores don't bear out your claims. I skewed things a bit by talking about the Chinese, when Asians in general do pretty well, but there certainly is an ethnic skew. As for your claim that this might be "racism": well, if the facts are racist, that's not my problem. But I'm not even promoting my own kind here: my people (whiteys) do pretty good but, as I said above, Asians do better. Of course, you might deny that things like test scores in math and science are neutral, but that would put you in league with the feminists, critical race theorists and queer theorists who deny that science is ever neutral or objective. And you might say that even despite test scores, university hiring practices are biased, but that wouldn't explain why women and visible minorities do better in soft sciences and humanities, and it might at least suggest – like a dastaradly Conservative – that university profs are biased elitists or something, and so we shouldn't take their "scientific" claims seriously.

  • Lizz

    Could it just be a diversion to make us look away from bigger issues : the cost of the G.8/G.20 and police tactics during these events?

  • c_9

    OK, I'll try a different angle. What I was trying to say is that, regardless of who adds 2+2, or what colour they are, or what gender they are, 2+2=4. I was not trying to suggest anything beyond that. My apologies for inferring anything racist about what you meant, though I'm still a little confused by your comment's organizational structure. :-)

    So, if 2+2=4, then that fact can be used by someone to promote, or denigrate, whatever they think it impacts. But if we start to think that 2+2=4 is an opinion, that damages us, and our country, because our industries and sciences need people who went to school and learned that 2+2=4. That's what I was attempting to say.

    (Yes, 2+2=4 is an absurd example, but that can be swapped out for quadratic equations, calculus, biology, etc)

  • zalmox

    Personally, I don't disagree with your basis claim here. But there are actually many left-wing types in the social sciences and humanities (many thought not all critical race theorists, queer theorists, feminists, aboriginal studies, etc) who do deny it: they claim that science can never be objective or neutral, that it's always the expression of a biased worldview, etc. And perhaps one reason they make the claim that math and science themselves are biased is because test scores in those fields are biased (towards men, Asians, whites, to varying degrees). I'm just highlighting this point not to pick on your comment really, but because it's an irony in the sudden embrace of "science" and "objective" "facts" by various left-wing types on these boards. Embrace science and math all you like: I'm all for that. But if they're objective and neutral, then I'm afraid they don't conform to left-wing ideologies in the way that many people here would like.

  • zalmox

    The "evidence" which you cite is not actually "evidence", as is shown by your description of it as a "suggestion". (In fact, it doesn't even address the relevant points: SAT scores were never what was at issue, because they are not advanced enough. Men and women are basically equal at that level, as are various ethnic groups. It's at the highest and lowest ends of achievement that the difference shows up. The article which you link to never mentions this point, even though that was exactly what the person it claims to be refuting had claimed. In other words, the article is arguing in transparently bad faith, and avoiding the whole point at issue, presumably because the author knows that the left-wing b.s. she wants to promote has no basis in the evidence.) These sorts of reports of left-wing fantasies about a future which will never come (they've been making predictions like this for seventy years or something). But precisely if you were right about this, it would only confirm the Conservative criticism of academia, albeit for slightly different reasons: i.e., it would show that "objective" and "neutral" sciences are not really objective or neutral, that they can "biased" in favour of certain class interests (males, in this case you would be claiming). In that case, university "experts" are not really worthy of the kind of respect that liberals have lately been claiming on these blogs – rather, as feminists, queer theorists, critical race theorists, and aboriginal studies people have been saying for years, science is just a "social construct", a tool of "power", not "objective" or "neutral", etc. So then the question would just be: whose interests does it really serve? Anyway

  • zalmox

    Incidentally, just to be clear about this: I wouldn't deny that something like SAT scores can be "equalized" by things like enrollment programs. There are all kinds of social forces at work there, some of which disadvantage girls, as well as racial minorities. But those kinds of tests were never the basis for the claims which the author of the article is trying to refute. Anyway, precisely if the article was correct, it would still create a whole different set of problems for liberals, as I explain above. (Moreover, you simplify things by saying that I claim that "one group is inherently more stupid than another": it's more complicated than that. For instance, in the case of gender which you highlight, men are over-represented at *both* the *low* and *high* ends. In other words, there are more brilliant men in these fields, but also more men who are just "stupid", as you say).

  • zalmox

    Since I have to leave for lunch now, it might be worth saying this as simply as possible in case anyone chooses to be "willfully ignorant", as you write above:

    I certainly believe that various social factors disadvantage girls in maths and sciences, and also believe that my own race is inferior in these fields.

    But that doesn't change the facts alluded to above.

  • http://cherniaklawyer.com Jason Cherniak

    You raise two thoughts in my mind.

    First, you seem to suggest that Harper is doing what he believes the Liberals would do in his position. I've often thought that he takes his views of Liberal tactics too far, thus creating a new tactic that is far worse than whatever Chretien did. Keep in mind that from Trudeau taking the state out of the bedrooms of the nation, bringing in the NEP and introducing the Charter, to Chretien fighting the deficit and trying to decriminalize pot and Martin legalizing same-sex marriage, the Liberal Party is often surprisingly open and pushy about its agenda. I'm not positive, but I believe that even the Court Challenges Program was originally hailed as doing exactly what it did. Where was the hiding?

    Second, I think the goal you draw from Taylor's post cannot be acheived. Instead of not knowing how many divorced, Chinese Jews there are, the government will have a guess that is less accurate than they currently have. The end result will be similar policy goals based on less accurate information, thus worsening the so-called problem they are trying to avoid.

  • Dave

    Maybe that's not what he's in it for, but that is what he's doing while he's been in it.

  • Inkless

    You might want to read, if you haven't, Hofstadter's "The Paranoid Style in American Politics." It was about anti-Communism but it applies in other cases: people who obsess about an enemy often imitate the traits they believe they see in the enemy. Often they don't notice they're doing it. If they do notice, they say it's too bad but circumstances force them to act this way. And yeah, sometimes they push imitation to the point of parody.

  • Wascally Wabbit

    Rarely have I agreed with Jason recently – but here I think he is at least half right.
    First, I didn't read that YOU – Mr. Wells – were suggesting that Liberals would do the same as Mr. Harper – rather you suggested that "Mr. Harper and his associates have for decades argued, with considerable accuracy, that comparable change-by-stealth was the preferred method of the Liberal party in power'. the fact that they have argued it does not make it true – as we have found so blazingly clearly with this Census stunt they tried to pull. so we don't agree on that1
    On the Liberals being "open and pushy about its agenda" – we agree. I've been too or read Hansard dialogues of the long and sometimes ponderous dog and pony shows that have moved around the country gathering input on various policies before they are finalized and the red ribbons tied to them. I'd have to do some research – but I believe that the Gun Registry went through such public input – so Candace Hoeppner may find less and less support come September!

  • Wascally Wabbit

    (cont.) Wouldn't he want to join with the others to fight his battle on a collective basis – and – since he is fighting an entity called government – wouldn't he want his legal fees to be paid – by government – if only to be fair? Isn't that what the advocacy groups that he so contemptuously dismisses as Welfare Statist are essentially doing?__

  • Wascally Wabbit

    And Olaf – sometimes your arguments sound as if you and Uncle Jack have been sharing swigs!

  • hosertohoosier

    I think Wells is onto something, but this isn't so much about the welfare state, but rather about the special interest state. The Liberals operated with a group-based understanding of Canada. Canada was a collection of small groups with narrow, parochial interests. A Liberal majority could be crafted by shilling out to the interests of enough of these groups. Harper only beat the Liberals by using this particular set of tools (eg. narrow-casting).

    The elimination of the census would reduce the effectiveness of any such strategy. It wouldn't make it impossible to build a welfare state, by the way. But it would make narrowcasting and group identity politics far less effective. Remember that one thing that is critical about the census is not just that it is a big survey, it is also one of the few surveys that gets broken down by riding.

  • John W.

    Well the Cold War era war planes he's buying answer both our points! Its right wing Republican militarism, and a huge shift of resources away from people and in to war machinery. I don't know who he figures we're going to war with but he must have somebody in mind. Not much use in peacekeeping or insurgency fighting. But it is ideology not just dividing the spoils in a different way as some are suggesting.
    I wish Wells would take a close in depth look at this militaristic foreign policy issue.

  • LynnTO

    Your statement was that nothing would confirm stereotypes like test scores in math and science. Gender stereotypes were an example that you listed.

    I provided an article based on results of a study that indicate that math scores for girls and boys (because, when they take the SAT, they are still "boys" and "girls") do not fit that thesis. Enrollment was one thing they pointed to as something that assisted the equalization process.

    I don't disagree that sociological factors are at play here, and that there are other things beyond that at work, but I stand by my statement that no one group is inherently more stupid than another, however glibly I've articulated it.

    Giving voice to the idea that "there's a reason why white men rule the world" while simultaneously arguing that feminists et al denounce science doesn't actually do anything to reconcile either position to a place where we can actually work to a) improve the opportunities for anyone who doesn't currently have one and b) dump stereotypes in the trash where they belong.

  • Thwim

    Good lord.. stop lying.
    Nobody in the social sciences or humanities claim that science can never be objective or neutral, at least, not anybody who's worth anything in the field.

    At worst, what you'll see them claim is that the type of science and experiements we perform are very often gender biased based on the results that are expected to be found. They're not arguing in any way that science is wrong, but that *more* science needs to be done.

  • Thwim

    That's actually a good point. Previously when Harper has made pure mistakes, such as the Canadian anthem, he's been quick to back off when the response comes in.

    That he hasn't backed off from this one suggests that it's a battle that actually means something to him — ie, there must be a rationale behind it.

  • Gaunilon

    That's an interesting point, but if that were the goal then (a) wouldn't he have eliminated it altogether rather than making it voluntary, and (b) wouldn't he also have tackled the short-form?

  • saskboy

    Maybe it's as little a reason that he's already backed off from as much as he's willing to this year. In other words, if he backs off from this mistake too, then he'll have a losing streak appearance.

  • BGLong

    Hmm … this made me reach over my shoulder and browse through my 40 yr. old
    Psych 101 text. A useful exercise in interpreting political combat. Start with "projection"
    and move on from there. Thanks.

  • http://cherniaklawyer.com Jason Cherniak

    I haven't, but I've now read the part that seems to have been published in Harper's Magazine (of all places) and republished online. The part about emulating the enemy is somewhat scary if it really applies to our Harper, but I can't believe he is quite so "paranoid". Perhaps PM Harper just likes to play on the paranoia of many of his supporters? If I were to believe that Harper fits the personality, I would probably have to be somewhat of a paranoid spokesperson myself. Thanks for the excuse to procrastinate further today. I hate working in hot, humid, yet air conditioned spaces.

  • DerekPearce

    I must say, your avatar is one of the best I've ever read!

  • burlivespipe

    Imagine the Dr. Bantings of the past having to battle, fight and maintain their integrity under these kinds of times and this kind of government.
    Certainly, the idea of a noble cause has taken a hammering due to just the great consumer machine. But Harper and his anti-science, anti-information zealots are making the common good less likely to emerge even as sporadically as it did in the past…

  • zalmox

    You clearly have no idea whatsoever of what is argued in either social sciences or humanities. If you've never heard these claims before, and are not aware that they come from many of the most influential people in contemporary academia,then you're simply not educated in the field.

  • zalmox

    I'm afraid that you're barking up several wrong trees here. To wit:

    "I provided an article based on results of a study that indicate that math scores for girls and boys (because, when they take the SAT, they are still "boys" and "girls") do not fit that thesis"

    As I pointed out above, the article is irrelevant to the thesis, because the thesis has to do with the very highest and lowest percentiles of the population. The SAT does not test for that. It tests a level of skill at which the population is roughly equal. The article is deeply misleading because it deliberately obfuscates this point, i.e., it presents itself as a refutation of a specific claim, but then distorts the nature of the claim.

    "I stand by my statement that no one group is inherently more stupid than another"

    Again, this misses the point. In the case of gender, which you focus on, it is not a matter of women being stupider than men. Not at all. Rather, it's that men are over-represented in both the very highest and very lowest percentiles of mathematical and scientific achievement. In other words, men are *both* "smarter" and "stupider" than women.

    "Giving voice to the idea that "there's a reason why white men rule the world""
    I never said this. I referred to the country, and then referred to the Chinese – i.e., not white people – ruling the world. But that's a side issue.

    Anyway, I would suggest that you inform yourself more thoroughly of the actual nature of the issues at hand, before claiming that a given article refutes a particular thesis. SAT scores are not what's issue; nor is the claim that men are, on average, smarter than women. What's at issue is the very highest and very lowest level of mathematical and scientific achievement (which is why universities, rather than high schools, are relevant).

  • zalmox

    As with Lynne, I don't think that you understand what's at issue – in particular, what is at issue is not how "girls" and "boys" perform in high school. In that realm, everyone concedes that they have basically equal ability, which is why I acknowledged above that "social factors" may influence performance at that level (in various ways). And obviously the fact that you're an Asian who is "arguably" bad at math is irrelevant to broader trends.

  • Holly Stick

    Dunning & Kruger did an experiment on this::

    "…Although there was no gender difference in actual performance, women both reported lower self-views regarding their skill, as well as lower self-ratings regarding their performance on the pop-quiz.
    Quite illustratively, later, when asked if they would like to participate in a
    "science competition for fun and prizes , the women were more likely than the men to decline the invitation"…."
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolved-prima…

    Others are studying 'illusory superiority' as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

  • zalmox

    P.S.:

    The funny thing is, if one looks up the actual study which is reported in the article you cite, it actually confirms one of the the points I'm making: i.e., it confirms that boys are over-represented among both the best and worst students. But again, higher levels of achievement are more important.

  • LynnTO

    If we're going to go down that road, I'd avoid basing it on the cost of the G-series summits, but rather on revelations that the government is considering extending our mission in Afghanistan.

    Cost of G20 – not a vote-changer.
    Afghanistan – vote-changer.

  • John W.

    The war plane purchase is a much bigger story, more important financially and in policy terms, and more unlikely to stand up to public and media scrutiny. So it's worked there, at least so far.

  • zalmox

    And cf.:
    http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolut…

    (a critique of the way the study which you cite was reported in places like the NY Times)

  • Thwim

    Well then..surely you'll be willing to bring citations forward to bolster your argument. I mean, that'd be the surest way to show that you're not simply a liar.

  • zalmox

    It starts with names that are so famous that they hardly even need to be cited: Heidegger, Rorty, Derrida, Foucault, among others. They have influenced literally countless people, and there are an innumerable number of studies reflecting their arguments in various ways. It would be impossible to give a representative or non-arbitrary summary of their influence here. That's why I say that the fact that you're even asking the question shows your simple ignorance of the area. For publicly-accessible controversies of some relevant themes which have made into the popular press from time to time, one could look at places like this:
    http://www.cpsa-acsp.ca/papers-2009/Widdowson-How…
    http://www.cpsa-acsp.ca/papers-2006/Widdowson-How…

    There is also this famous story:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

    But as I said, these ideas are so widespread and influential (and come in such a variety of forms) in the left-wing academy that one could not begin to summarize the phenomena here. Which is why I say that if you don't know anything about it – i.e., if you claim that it's a "lie" – then you simply have had no substantive amount of contact with higher education. What a pathetic waste of existence you must be – calling people "liars" and asking for "citations" for claims which would be self-evident to anyone who had the most minimal level of exposure to the subject you're pontificating about.

  • zalmox

    For another brief summary of some the issues see here:
    http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_resear…

    But again, I know this hopeless with an idiot like this – anyone who knew anyone whatsoever about the subject wouldn't be exposing their ignorance so blatantly about the subject which they claim to be defending.

  • Thwim

    Your examples show that bad science can be published.
    They do nothing to bolster your claims that humanities are claiming science can never be objective or neutral. Heck, your first examples are, if anything, bolstering my claim that the humanities are calling for *more* science.

    If you want to argue that the humanities publish bad science, that's a different argument and one that while it may have some merit, I would also argue is hardly confined to just the humanities. That's the entire point of scientific journals, after all.. to get ideas out there and have the ones which are faulty found out and quashed.

  • hosertohoosier

    a) I don't think he thinks he could get away with eliminating the form altogether. Making it voluntary would merely reduce its value. Also, insofar as their was data, a voluntary census would tend to overstate the proportion of conservative-leaning groups (white people, Anglos, old people, etc.).
    b) The short form does not give you enough information for interest group politics.

  • Lord Kitchener's Own

    Afghanistan – vote-changer.

    Only if the Liberals aren't on board. Or, if you think a lot of CPC voters are going to jump to the NDP or the Greens.

  • Holly Stick

    I think cost of the G20 is very much a game-changer, along with the economic stimulus that has been mishandled. People always understand the problem with politicians wasting taxpayers' money.

  • zalmox

    You've obviously made no attempt to read any of the sources which I cited, and you also understand nothing of the process of academic publication. Specifically, you write that: "they do nothing to bolster your claims that humanities are claiming science can never be objective or neutral"; in fact, that is explicitly what they do claim! Anyone who had taken the trouble to actually read them would see that. You go on write something which is utterly irrelevant at the same time as it shows your complete ignorance of how academia works: "That's the entire point of scientific journals, after all.. to get ideas out there and have the ones which are faulty found out and quashed.". No. Certain ideas are up for debate. Simple and obvious factual errors are never supposed to make it into print: that's called the peer review process. Which you know nothing about. "Your first examples are, if anything, bolstering my claim that the humanities are calling for *more* science". WTF are you talking about? That's nowhere in either of the paper cited. As for going on about "humanities publish bad science" – again, nothing to do with anything. Rorty or Foucault had nothing to do with publishing "bad science". They had something to do with denying that science was ever objective, neutral, or anything more than a social construct. If you knew anything at all relevant to this subject, and if you took the time to actually read the sources cited, you would have some inkling of this. You're just making up random nonsense. What an idiot.

  • Gaunilon

    Yep, that works. That's the first rational explanation for Harper's census move that I've see thus far. I still think "blunder" is more likely though.

  • Holly Stick

    It's reported that Harper did want to make the short form census voluntary as well:
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100802/nationa…

  • zalmox

    You've evidently made no attempt to learn anything about the claims at issue, because the "experiment" discussed in the popular journal which you cite has nothing to do with them. Neither does "illusory superiority". They just have nothing whatsoever to do with the relevant arguments. Even if the theories which you cite were completely correct, they would do nothing to address the issue, which you don't seem to have understood at all.

  • matt

    But if the data is less robust, does that mean it doesn't exist and can't be used to make policy decisions? The long form is not being scrapped. It is not being made useless. It is being made less useful.

  • Holly Stick

    I'm not actually interested in discussing your ideas with you, which are of marginal if any relevance to the post in the first place.

  • Joseph

    On the contrary, they would offer an alternative explanation for why there seems to be a skew towards males at the top. It's because psychological biases exist which encourage more men to stay in the sciences to the very end, while females are more likely to abandon what stereotypes tell them they're not supposed to be good at.

    As for why there are both more males at the top and the bottom, it's also well known that females put a higher premium on intelligence than males (at least in part because they are culturally expected to be more social and therefore rely on talking things out to solve problems, an activity that requires more intelligence). Thus, these two effects, one that discourages them from reaching the top end, and the other that encourages them to act smarter in general, and thus pushes them away from the bottom end, effectively produce the distribution you have mentioned.

    In many ways, it's a variation on a well known, and very potent psychological phenomenon, known as the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy.

  • zalmox

    I was not "discussing" anything with you, but rather just pointing the absolute irrelevance of your post ; moreover, pointing this out is necessarily not marginal, since it is the subject about which the post to which you were commenting on was responding. To put this another way: your existence is parasitic on mine.

  • Holly Stick

    I was responding to Joseph's comment which had actual substance to it; your comments are not interesting.

  • madeyoulook

    I suspect Banting would have had more trouble with the animal-rights crusaders than with Harper, in these kinds of times.

    I will with great sadness shake such a sense out of my thick skull if you have an audio surveillance tape from 24 Sussex with Harper's voice saying "Diabetic kids? Who needs 'em? Let 'em just die already!" Or words to that effect.

  • zalmox

    No doubt you found his comment substantive because you're uninformed enough to understand that it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the subject on which it purports to be commenting – in other words, your interest is stimulated by your ignorance of the subject, like attracting like. But you must know something about a subject in order to gauge its' substantive components, and since you evince no knowledge whatsoever of the subject at hand, we may conclude that the lack of substance as it appears to you is simply a reflection of your own ignorance. Moreover, while you may assert that my comments are not interesting, you evidently find them interesting enough to read and comment on, moreover, they were the entire catalyst the comments which you yourself are commenting on – so, you are commenting on Joseph's comments, which are simply comments on my comments which means that, really, you have me to thank for that.

  • Joseph

    I appreciate the effort. Unfortunately, if zalmox can't see the reasoning behind our arguments, or even their relevance to the topic at hand, I suspect his confirmation biases are blinding him to their significance, and there's not much we can do to convince him otherwise.

  • Tim

    What is interesting is that in Alberta the Conservatives have for decades been essentially the party of power and have had the mechanisms to use government to do as they place(In many ways in Ontario conservatives had even more power from 1945 to 1985) yet is Alberta or for that matter Ontario under PC rule all that out of the Canadian mainstream as defined by Federal Liberals. How would Ontario or Alberta if the Liberals could do whatever they wanted be all that different than they are today.

  • Joseph

    Well, I was responding to your statement that: "Nothing will confirm gender and racial stereotypes for you like test scores in math and science."

    I showed that there are confounding factors that cast this presumption into doubt. I also offered an alternative explanation that cultural differences may have a greater impact than genetic differences. This is supported by papers such as these ( http://www.pop.psu.edu/general/pubs/working_paper… ) where it is shown that first and second generation Asian immigrants do better in school than third generation and beyond (possibly because they've assimulated into American culture at that point).

    And fundamentally, how people perform at the lower levels of education will have a significant impact on enrollment at the higher level. Early advantages in high school will only be magnified with time in undergrad and beyond. Thus, stereotype threat is a logical explanation for why in the long run, most of the experts in the fields at the top end up coming from those stereotypically advantaged groups.

    I am simply trying to show that your argument does not necessarily follow from the facts you offered, and that alternative explanations can be found. If I have somehow mischaracterized your argument, please explain how.

  • Leigh

    Have you actually read in depth any of the philosophers you point to? One of the best bits of advice I learned at graduate school is the need to read the original sources and not rely on commentary.
    The two papers you have attached to your posting make some pretty dubious claims about "postmodernism". The so-called 'postmodernism' the authors rely upon bears very little resemblance to what serious philosopher, such as Rorty, Foucault, etc., actually wrote.
    This is what makes it difficult to engage with your argument in a meaningful way because at best, your argument is about the reality of bad scholarship. Nor do you offer a critique that rises above the level of name-calling. These philosophers may have inspired "countless people" but they certainly weren't trying to inspire people to do the kind of drivel of which you accuse them. And the sources you use to back up your argument only repeat the problem.
    Bad scholarship is bad scholarship, and there's a lot of it out there, but it's not the fault of Rorty, Derrida, Foucault and Heidegger.

  • Leigh

    With each posting zalmox proves over and over again his inability to see past the end of his nose.

  • hosertohoosier

    I agree that blunder is a likely cause.

  • zalmox

    You present as alternative explanations what are not in fact mutually exclusive alternatives. For instance, culture can go hand in hand with genetics, which I point out above myself. Thus, it should come as no surprise that second and third generation Asian performance "assimilates" in general, but Asians continue to be over represented at the high end. The study which you cite doesn't address that, so I have no real objection to the study.

  • zalmox

    You have a nagging tendency to posting vapid personal insults and baseless assertions not matched by any corresponding ability to provide any substantive – arguments, evidence, etc – commentary. Basically, for you, accusing someone else of personal insults is a form of personal insult, because you are unable or unwilling to write anything actually substantive. My guess is you were never actually in grad school.

  • Holly Stick

    If you were in grad school, you should have lost some of your arrogance and learned to argue without insulting people.

  • Guest

    Ha Ha Ha………Holly "THE POT" Stick.

  • zalmox

    lol, do you imagine that academics are known for their humility? Obviously, you've never been in a faculty meeting or at an academic conference. And, actually, I keep citing actual academic sources and provide detailed responses to the specific points others make, while you do nothing but write one-or-two line insults all the while claiming that you find my comments to be "not interesting". What a loser you are, Holly.

  • Holly Stick

    You are no academic, faker.

  • zalmox

    As it happens I am one, moron, but also, I never actually claimed to be (having been a grad student does not amount to being an academic, just having spent some time in academia, as opposed to being employed there). All that I've done in this thread in "academic" terms is provide citations to academic work – something that you and your friends prove chronically unable to do, even when accusing me of being able to do so! In this, you lie, just as you lied above when claiming not to be responding to me because, you wrote, my comments were "not interesting" – when by now it's obvious that you can't stop reading them or replying to them. Look, titles of any sort, academic or otherwise, aren't all that important right here. However, being able to understand and cite and discuss work by experts in the field certainly is important. That is why I keep citing actual academic sources and provide detailed responses to the specific points others make, while you do nothing but write one-or-two line insults all the while claiming that you find my comments to be "not interesting". What a pathetic little loser you are, "Holly".

  • zalmox

    Still waiting for your citations from the primary sources which you accuse me of not citing! Or would you like to me suggest a section from Sein Und Zeit for you to begin with? (Since we're reading primary sources, we might as well read them in their original languages, right? After all, something which you must have learned in grad school is that if you really want to claim expertise in a source, you must learn the language in which was written, right?) Over to you, grasshopper!

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