Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

The Commons: Supporting the troops

by Aaron Wherry on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 6:34pm - 0 Comments

Colonel Pat Stogran sat in a suit and tie at the front of the National Press Gallery, somewhat hunched over his notes, his hands placed on the table in front of him. Every so often, as he read in precisely the sort of impatient, unapologetic, grinding tone one would expect from a colonel, he would glance up from beneath an impressive brow.

To his immediate left sat a man in a wheelchair, a former member of the Canadian Forces now suffering from ALS. To Col. Stogran’s far right and far left sat men with medals pinned just below the right shoulders of their suit jackets. A half dozen other veterans sat in the gallery.

Col. Stogran explained first what he was not here to talk about—the government’s decision not to renew his term as veterans ombudsman. He has held the title since November 2007 and he will relinquish his post in three months.

“What I am here to do,” he said, “is to expose to Canadians what I perceive as a system that for a long time has denied veterans not just what they deserve, but what they earned with their blood and sacrifice.”

If he is to leave his post, he seems intent on doing so unquietly. Indeed, deviating from his initial statement, he speculated that perhaps he had surprised the government that appointed him. That he had been too outspoken, too aggressive. If so, he seemed unrepentant, perhaps even emboldened.

“It is beyond my comprehension how the system could knowingly deny so many of our veterans the services and benefits that the people and the government of Canada recognized a long, long time ago as being their obligation to provide.”

This was merely the preamble.

Col. Stogran pledged here and now to spend the last three months of his term explaining to Canadians “how badly” veterans and their families are being treated. Then, looking up, he raised his voice and lifted his right hand to chop it at the audience. “To all Canadians, these are your sons and your daughters,” he said. “They’re your brothers and sisters. The time is now to do something about it. Make sure this government understands that this must stop.”

He ceded the microphone then to the men at his sides, each of whom testified to some failure or another of the system—tales of bureaucracy, claims of injustice. The tone was at turns angry and frustrated and demanding and pleading and discomfiting. All of it ultimately coming back, implicitly or explicitly, to the three words that have so often been mouthed these last ten years: support the troops.

The term is by now nearly cliche, tossed off reflexively and lightly like a “god bless” after a sneeze. The Canadian soldier is regularly invoked here to proclaim one’s patriotism, defame one’s opponent, avoid uncomfortable questions, and defend debatable actions. But even if the three-word phrase already seems rendered meaningless by abuse, here it was directly challenged. Here the comforting platitude was met with uncomfortable claims.

When it was his turn, the man to Col. Stogran’s left apologized for his laboured speech, the ALS he suffers from—attributable, he says, to inoculations he received while serving in the first Gulf War—apparently makes it hard to breathe and speak at the same time. “My advice to the ministry is if you’re not willing to stand behind the troops, feel free to stand in front of them,” he said.

And even if this too was a cliche, here it seemed crushing.

Few escaped blame for the neglect, for the care not received and the toll untended. The press was beseeched to ask questions, the public was begged to pay attention, the bureaucrats were blamed, the politicians were told to honour their words. The failure was depicted as massive. “The system” was invoked and lamented again and again and again. The stories were myriad and complicated and the discussion often unwieldy. The point seemed to be this: whatever we say as a country that we feel for our soldiers, we do not demonstrate it when most required.

“We line that Highway of Heroes to respect those who have fallen,” said the man to Col. Stogran’s far right. “Let’s start lining that highway for the veterans that come back that are sitting up.”

“If you detect a bit of frustration up here,” Col. Stogran said. “Welcome to my world.”

Indeed, now the colonel vented too, no longer hunched and steady, but sitting upright and lecturing.

“I could go on for hours,” he said when he finally neared a conclusion.

Reporters’ questions were met with only more lamentations. Eventually, someone asked the colonel if he was disappointed in particular with the Prime Minister. Here, Col. Stogran directed reporters to a Canadian Alliance flyer included in the package of documents handed out before the news conference, which featured, he said, a picture of him in the lower left hand corner. Atop the flyer, beside a picture of Stephen Harper, are two sentences. “When we need you, you are always there. Now it’s our turn to defend you.”

Col. Stogran spoke of himself as “window-dressing” and then proceeded once more to lament for the bureaucracy and the workings of government.

Specific questions need be asked, and specific answers given, about that system. But the fight now would seem to be one of words versus deeds, easy slogans versus uncomfortable realities and the very real business of running a country.

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  • Emily

    Seems it's Mr Harper that 'hates the troops'.

    Too late for this advice to do any good, but I'll pass it along anyway.

    'Don't mess with the vets.'

    • JETSOLVER

      Strange, as a vet I see the current government as the first one in thirty years to even broach the subject, let alone do something about it.

      And then there is the fact that the position never existed until the current government…

      If the LPC has the barest hint of a clue, they'll shut the hell up over this, as in most of our opinions, they created and enabled the rot, the very same rot I battled through for a decade until I could do no more and had to leave early due to PSAC incompetence and malfeasance…

      • craigola

        That's great. Colonel Stolgran and co. beseech people to talk about it more, and you're here telling people to shut up. Are you next in line for the job?

    • some thoughts

      It should now be clear to all that when the Conservatives say they stand behind our soldiers they are telling the gospel truth. Harper and his gang are far to cowardly to lead from the front and of course standing behind them facilitates the innevitable treachery and stabs in the back which are conservative stock in trade.

  • PeteTong

    Sorry this isn't related to the census or the Tamil boat and therefore is undeserving of my precious attention. Unless of course you can tell me how it will translate into movement in the polls…

  • Stewart_Smith

    It will be interesting to see how many of these problems are long-standing and how many were introduced when the government reviewed the Ministry's expenses looking for cost savings.

  • Harbles

    So what is the history of Veterans affairs Ministry run out of PEI ? Why?

    • Richard

      Why not?

  • burlivespipe

    I'm not going to treat this as another example of why i dislike Harper; instead, i think it behooves us all to ensure that Stogran and his men and women are listened to. Instead of being treated like an election prop or 'hot button' issue to capitalize on, the treatment of our soldiers is one that needs to be taken seriously.
    That being said, I await dumb cat's defence of this inaction, or defence of the upcoming attacks on stogran, as it would defend Harper's attack on the grieving parents of soldiers past…

    • Blacktop

      Good plan

    • Tom Richards

      Who cares if you dislike Harper-are you that important ? The liberals were in power for a long period of time after WW2 , how come they did'nt correct all the wrongs then ? Watch out- Stogran is out for a political appointment or as a liberal candidate in the next election.

  • http://stumblingabordeaux.blogspot.com Patrick

    I don't. understand. this. government.

    They pick the oddest battles to fight. They could have left the census alone, and given the vets a little more money, you know, something all canadians could support… It could have been a wonderful summer for them.

    • Emily

      I don't understand it either.

      The census wasn't even an issue….until the govt turned it into a 4 alarm fire.

      'Unreported crime' was obviously NEVER an issue.

      And as far as anyone knew, vets were being taken care of….until they fired the Ombudsman.

    • DeanP

      Wasn't there a comment in Hebert/Delacourt/Taber last week of some senior Tory saying something to the effect of "we pick the smallest hills to die on"? Indeed.

      • tedbetts

        Ian L. MacDonald I believe.

        • Orson Bean

          It was in John Ivison's column in the NP regarding the census flap. Might have been in other articles too.

      • knick

        Except that in this case, it's not at all a 'small hill'.

        • http://stumblingabordeaux.blogspot.com Patrick

          It's a no brainer!

  • Silly_Walks

    This really shouldn't be an issue about political points. We send people off to do our dirty work, we take care of them when they get home. It really should be as simple as that.

    • tedbetts

      Agreed.

      • Blacktop

        Dead right. Or even injured right. In fact we should bend over to make sure they are well-treated and fairly treated.

        • Michael

          Whether they are sick from war related things or otherwise….our vets deserve the best from all of us.

  • hollinm

    Unfortunately I missed the Ombudsman's press conference. Is he suggesting that the government is not paying the benefits that the vets are owed or is he simply suggesting that more needs to be done? If its the latter then we have systems in place to put forward new legislation and have it passed. Its called Parliament.

    • burlivespipe

      You mean the place where Harper plays games like proroguing, committee babblegab, secret meetings and late Friday news dumps? I guess when your staff is busy dialing for dollars no wonder there's no time for doing the people's business — especially if the people are those you don't trust to consult with. That place?

      • http://stumblingabordeaux.blogspot.com Patrick

        you forgot to add "early adjournment for summer vacations" to the list.

    • tedbetts

      In the presser, he passed the blame around widely but singled out the government of course because only the government is in a position to do something about it and, despite explicit promises to do so even in their own election campaign platform, they have not. They haven't even introduced anything or tried to include something in the budget.

    • Stewart_Smith

      The Ministry has to render judgement on many cases with regard to eligibility and support levels. One of the sticking points from the interviews is the litigious nature of the Ministry when these issues come into dispute. Clearly there needs to be a process, but by forcing cases to the courts and then using procedures to slow the passage of those cases through the courts the Ministry is playing a very nasty game of wait and see, benefiting as sick veterans eventually die.

      http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/08/17/veter…

      From the Ministry's web site, their new strategic plan sets a very low bar of winning 50% of the cases it disputes… i.e. they are willing to delay paying many deserving vets. Even worse they actually lose almost 60% of those cases.
      http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/dpr-rmr/2008-2009/inst/d…

      If you can't win delay, as a strategy it is somewhat like their approach to Khadr except it is our wounded vets this time.

      • tedbetts

        If you can't win, delay:

        Vets
        Khadr
        detainees
        "financial considerations" for Cadman
        EI changes
        etc. etc. etc. etc.

        • OntarioTown

          Next – an RCMP officer that supports the gun registry.

          Disagree with Harper and you're gone. Now if that isn't dictatorship folks, I don't know what is.

      • dave

        In other words, Veteran's Affairs seems to be being run by folks recruited from the insurance industry and is implementing their policy of deny and dodge on any claims since it works so well there.

        • BGLong

          It's a government department. Policy is set by the political class and implementation is
          carried out down the chain of command to the front line workers who are left to deal with
          the blowback from frustrated citizens/clients. As a result they sometimes get to resent the
          "clientele" … nobody likes being yelled at about things they have no control over … because
          there's no job security in sending the resentment back up the chain of command.

          • Holly Stick

            And the taxpayers are paying the lawyers, so why wouldn't such a government waste our money on these court cases?

        • dave

          As a result they sometimes get to resent the "clientele" … nobody likes being yelled at about things they have no control over … because there's no job security in sending the resentment back up the chain of command.

          No, this really has nothing to do with it. Pro-actively denying claims for any reason whatsoever has been shown to result in people simply walking away from them – which is doubly evil when dealing with people explicitly trained to accede to "authority" because your insurer telling you "no" is frequently seen in that light – so the insurance companies maintain an active position to deny claims for loose reasons and hope you'll just walk away or knock off before you can win a fight. The practice is well documented – consumer shows like Marketplace have done entire episodes on it. Remember, we live in a country where a major insurance corporation fought a losing battle all the way to the SCC to deny a client their home insurance simply because they believed – despite there no physical evidence to be found or charges laid – that the customers "committed arson"…

          This is most likely why VA is looking to push denial of claims; they either delay the process long enough that the person dies untreated or the person just runs out of/doesn't have money to fight so gives up and goes away.

          This is just SOP with dealing with insured now.

      • Blacktop

        You are right, Stewart, as usual. The revamped policy described in the reference is much better for the vet. Possibly for reasons I mentioned previously and possibly the different treatment when the lawyers think they can win ..one, there are still these marginal issues wjere decency would say, "Go ahead"but the case is in the hands of the lawyers and who among the bureaucrats and particularly their lawyers won't try to save money. But some of these are fat-asses who are cocooned away from the reality of what military people go through when they really have to give out. You have heard the story, I am sure. "Days of continuing boredom punctuated with moments of stark terror. What licves in the mind is not the boredom but the terror. And if you carry a physical would or a mental scar, it's much the same.

  • wilson

    Surely the bureaucrats are doing as advised by the experts who get their information from surveys conducted by StatsCan…..
    perhaps the 'party of stupid', as we Conservatives are known here, will take the side of the people instead of the experts, and do the right thing.

    Col. Stogran is doing EXACTLY what he was appointed to do.
    I look forward to the next 3 months of him laying it out there for everyone to see.

    • wilson

      If there is a cash problem, how about we quit subsidizing magazines.

      • tedbetts

        That's a good question that no one wants to discuss.

        Including this government which has decided that Canadian taxpayers should be supporting private for profit magazines of narrow interest and religious magazines/periodicals that appeal only to certain segments of the population. In these times of austerity, Harper has increased funding to magazines and expanded the list of government largesse.

      • brooster

        Wow, nice attempt to change the channel with a totally irrelevant comment. I'd guess you're a Tory supporter.

    • Emily

      Oh I don't think there were any 'experts' advising that vets should be cheated out of their benefits.

      The biggest expert here is the one they are firing.

    • danby

      Col. Stogran is doing EXACTLY what he was appointed to do.

      So is Kevin Page and that sure hasn't helped the PBO, has it?

    • http://scottdiatribe.canflag.com/ Scott_Tribe

      They havent listened to him for 2 years, 9 months.What makes you think they'll listen to him for the last 3 months?

  • tedbetts

    Pat Strogan*, former Veterans’ Affairs Ombudsman.

    Munir Sheikh*, former Chief Statistician.

    Paul Kennedy*, former RCMP complaints commissioner.

    Richard Colvin, former Senior Diplomat in Afghanistan.

    Linda Keen, former Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission president.

    Adrian Measner, former CEO of the Wheat Board.

    Remy Beauregard*, former President of Rights & Democracy.

    John Reid, former Information Commissioner.

    * Appointed by Harper.

    • tedbetts

      Robert Marleau*, former Information Commissioner.

      Bernard Shapiro, former Ethics Commissioner.

      Marc Mayrand*, former Chief Electoral Officer.

      Jean-Guy Fleury, former Chair of the Immigration and Refugee Board.

      Kevin Page*, still hanging on despite all efforts to undermine him.

      * Appointed by Harper.

    • tedbetts

      And even his own:

      Bill Casey, former Conservative MP.

      Helena Guergis, former Conservative cabinet minister.

      Garth Turner, former Conservative MP, Progressive Conservative cabinet minister and leadership candidate.

      • Emily

        Jeez….you forget how many bodies there are in the cupboard after awhile.

        Thank you for keeping track!

      • danby

        well done ted

      • Harbles

        Oh help us Benny Hinn.

      • David_M.

        You're going to need to add one more Ted.

        • tedbetts

          Unbelievable!

          • Emily

            They're dropping like flies!

          • David_M.

            How does a bus keep moving with that many folks under it?

          • Emily

            LOL getting to be a bumpy ride I would think!

          • Holly Stick

            Thank you Ted. Stockwell Day upped the numbers drastically:
            http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/otta…

            Part of their general war on the public service, it seems:
            http://ofgodsandothermonsters.blogspot.com/2010/0…

          • tedbetts

            Actually, that Stockwell Day announcement highlights a different part of the same issue.

            Stinging from criticism that they took all that prorogation time to come up with a budget that was anything but austere and increased spending (including a huge increase to the PMO budget), they sent Day out to make this big announcement that 245 positions were being eliminated to save money at a potential savings of millions.

            The reality of couse was much different. Of the 245, I think 75% were unfilled positions, another 20% were just finishing their appointment term and maybe 5 or so were actually being ended early for a grand savings of about $30,000 to $100,000. Culture of deceit reigns almighty.

      • Michael

        You rule Ted. Thanks for keeping track.

      • lib2

        get a LIfe looser!

        • Holly Stick

          Another Stupid Conservative speaks up.

      • Phil

        Yeah, yeah, yeah….but Garth Turner, now that one is understandable. ;-)

    • Blue

      Thanks for the list Ted—your yo` man`s work is not going unnoticed. These good people you have mentioned were simply doing their jobs, pulling in their 6 figure salaries, preparing themselves for their indexed retirement when their idealogical rug was pulled from under them by that evil Harper. Why can he not let these dedicated civil servants mould their departments in the way their political feelings lead them ?
      Does he not understand these good servants want to just put their time in without any interference from any representative from the people.
      Thanks again Ted and by the way those cons are just trying to destroy the country !

      • tedbetts

        Um, no, Blue. These were civil servants doing their job which in most cases here involved acting as an independent watchdog over some part of the government or government services. They were doing their job and got fired, forced out or smeared for doing it.

        But I take it you, like Harper, prefer your governments unaccountable between elections, now that the Conservatives are in government. Fortunately, Canadians strongly disagree.

  • Oliver

    From what I understand the Martin government started cutting Veteran's Affairs budget.
    This could turn into something very interesting. And hopefully it'll be a force for positive change.

    • Emily

      He noted the problems he is raising are long-standing and cover both Liberal and Tory administrations. However, he focused most of his criticism on the most recent government policy shift, called the Veterans Charter.
      Adopted in 2005 by the Liberal-led minority Parliament under Paul Martin, it was officially launched the following year by Prime Minister Stephen Harper as part of a package for veterans that included the new ombudsman position and a new Veterans Bill of Rights.

      • Blacktop

        So both get some credit. It is particularly appriate for the Libs as under Trudeau and Chretien they trashedall theree services. The F18 contract was just a sop to Bombardier despite the fact that the Winnipeg firm beat them on price etc.

        • Emily

          Yeah, yeah

  • tedbetts

    Stephen Harper's double-speak on Veteran issues from 2006 – Present:

    [youtube t3_cexKleY0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_cexKleY0 youtube]

  • BGLong

    Over the years my wife and I have helped a number of veterans elbow their way through Veterans Affairs.
    The first thing we learned early on is that (in our experience) the initial application is almost always denied.
    Then we learned that if the denial is appealed, the real negotiation can begin. It's a long and often humiliating
    process for elderly people who deserve better but if persistence is applied there can be a successful outcome.

    And, in our experience, when there is a standstill an MP can … but often doesn't … help. We are fortunate in this
    part of the country that Peter Stoffer has taken this on as part of his life's work and is open to assisting veterans
    who are not his constituents nor supporters of his party. I'm not his biggest fan but on this he is excellent.

    Oh, and the initial step used to be a visit to the VA website to download and print out the application forms,
    especially for VIP benefits. That option has now disappeared from the website. Even the local federal
    service office can not access them.

    • Orson Bean

      It would be interesting to me to see how our VA department works in this regard in comparison to the Veterans' Administration in the US, which is a huge program down there (given the comparatively large size of their military and the considerably larger wars they have fought in the last decades). It would be interesting to get the informed view of somebody like Scott Taylor on this.

      • Harbles

        Or Australia perhaps. Lower Population and slightly smaller armed forces but four times as much spent on Veterans affairs.

    • Blacktop

      I know that many of the VA hospitals in the States have been closed after the huge remnants of WWII and Viet Nam no longer require custodial (Long-Term) care but how this might affect the actual delivery of care and associated services I don't know.

    • novagardener

      A BIL fought for 17 years on behalf of his Father. IIRC Peter Stoffer was a big help. His Widow finally received some compensation.

  • tedbetts

    RMR: Rick's Rant – Soldier: The New Political Prop:

    ""Perfect timing this past week when every headline was dominated by the humanitarian crisis in Haiti that the government let it be known – very quietly – that the purchase of armoured vehicles is now on "permanent hold". Or waht a civilian would call "cancelled". Turns out, it [the announcement of the purchase of armoured vehicles with dozens of soldiers] was just a photo op. Perhaps, a new low in Canadian politics."

    [youtube kCadyzQ4w1k&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCadyzQ4w1k&feature=player_embedded youtube]

  • Emily

    Ick!

    I'd be more likely to tell him….'get help'!

  • austinso

    I guess we now know what "standing behind the troops" really means to Harper and the CPC, as in using them as a prop for their BS.

    • Blacktop

      Actually, give both Harper and teh Min Def soem credit. Not many in their positionn before put themselves in harm's way. Either could have take an IED anywher in the area.

      IT is one hell of a lot more than any Liberal PM or MIn Def did , not to mention Trudeau, who as a nonserver in WWII seemed to despise servicemen.

      • brooster

        Reassuring to see that those expensive photo ops "at the front" are impressing at least one person.

        • Blacktop

          Come one! If you knew anything you know that everywhere is dangerous there. Photo op or not they were where where the troops were . You're a pretty sour case. Give credit whhere credit is due, even if it hurts.

          • brooster

            Hey, the crass way in which this government has used support for the troops for their overtly partisan purposes brings out the cynic in me. Excuse me if I don't give them "credit" for occasionally sneaking in and out of the theater to get their pictures taken with the troops..

          • Holly Stick

            Real soldiers don't like MacKay wearing a uniform he has not earned the right to wear, which appears to be illegal:

            "…One of the overarching foundations of a confederated and democratic Canada is that the Canadian military is a civilian controlled operation. When General Andrew McNaughton was appointed Minister of National Defence in 1944, during the 2nd World War, he assumed his duties as a civilian and appeared in civilian clothing…"
            http://thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com/2010/07/gr…

          • Blacktop

            Wearing the clothes but he is not wearing "uniform". Someone n Western civvies would be an easier target. Also a flak jacket is not a unoform; it is protective gear. Your blog reference doesn't know what he is talking about. It is the army that puts him in the rig for his own safety.

          • Holly Stick

            That photo of him in a uniform was taken in the Netherlands. Was he in a lot of danger there? Other marchers are wearing Western civvies:
            http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/gal/photos-eng.asp?i…

          • Holly Stick

            Blacktop, you should have actually gone to the first link I prolvided and read it before pretending you knew more about the topic than the blogger at Galloping Beaver. You might also have noticed that he is not wearing a flak jacket in the photo there, but a uniform.

      • tedbetts

        Chretien went over at least twice. He just didn't bring a whole photography entourage and make empty grandiloquent speaches out in the open for show.

        Harper also blocked the GG from going over because it would steal some of his thunder.

        Harper never left the compound so I find the fear of IEDs within the Canadian camps highly, shall we say, unlikely.

  • tobyornotoby

    I'm not sure I'd hitch my wagon to Stogran's horses if I were the Opp. parties. He went out of his way to avoid ascribing blame to the Harper Government to instead blame bureaucrats in successive governments, and specifically hinted at some sort of conspiracy eminenting from the PCO as the cause of his non-reappointment (in an As it Happens interview a few minutes ago).

    Surely the Government in charge for his entire period of appointment is responsible. Or is he just another Conservative running against his own government?

    • tedbetts

      He not so subltly singled out Harper for using him personally as a prop as Wherry points out, but he certainly swept in the prior Liberal government.

      • tedbetts

        Also, there is the obvious point that his term is not being renewed. I think I read that the government, which created this position, is not replacing him with anyone.

    • Blacktop

      I'll take Strogan's view any day. By my own expertikence I think the govt means to do right. Unless someone has put a bomb under the VA bureaucrats, I'd put their concern for vets on the same level as Indian Affairs for mnative Indians.

  • dave

    I was told … that it is in the government’s best interests to have soldiers killed overseas rather than wounded because the liability is shorter term,” Stogran said.

    Which just goes to show that the bean counters are firmly in charge at Veteran's Affairs.

    • Emily

      Niiiice, really nice.

      Didn't say that to them on the way over tho, did they….

      • Mark R

        This is why I do not like the Tor star. They…… the entire quote. The full quote is.

        “I was told by a senior Treasury Board analyst, who shall remain nameless, that it is in the government’s best interest to have soldiers killed overseas rather than wounded because the liability is shorter term.”

        Another bureaucrat said that.

        • Emily

          A senior treasury board analyst…with Stockwell Day in charge.

          Oh, did you think the analyst was the one making policy?

          • Mark R

            You mean..Sort of like the Sponsorship scandal. Where Chuck Guite the bureaucrat said he was following orders from Alphonso Galianao and Jean Chretian?

          • Emily

            Hey buddy…this is the 21st century, not the 20th.

            Update your calendar, before you tell us all about Trudeau again.

          • Mark R

            Until Liberals find the missing millions….I refuse. heh

          • Emily

            There are no missing millions….so give it a rest, and join everyone else in 2010.

          • Mark R

            You are wrong.

          • Emily

            Harper has had 4 years to investigate it…and you know he would do so….and you know if anything….however tiny…. had turned up the Cons would have made it into screaming national headlines.

            There are no missing millions, there never were.

            Political hype is all it ever was.

            So turn the page on history, and move on.

          • Mark R

            Gomery said he could not track where something like 50 Million bucks went. Lawsuits were launched to get it back. I think a few million was recovered.

          • Blacktop

            But, my they are painful memories, aren't they? The libs haven't had a chance to continue their games. But to be fair, the rot and corruption was mainly in Quebec, once the bastion of liberalism..

        • tedbetts

          And that makes it any better? What happened to the Ministerial accountability we were hearing so much about? The one the Conservatives were quick to trot out when they wanted their staffers to break the law by not appearing in committee to testify.

          • Mark R

            I missed the part where everything that is ever said by any employee was the same as a minister saying it. You are being ridiculous.

          • tedbetts

            I'm not the one being ridiculous. The Conservative government is: they are the ones who are breaking the law by preventing their staffers from testifying about what they (the staffers) said or did. Yet in that case, the Conservatives say you can't speak to the staffers or bureacrats because of ministerial accountability.

            Anyway, that's really an aside that shows the government's complete lack of principles and total disregard for the law.

            The point here i would say in all seriousness is that no, the Minister should not have to know about everything that is ever said by any employee. That would indeed be ridiculous.

            But what would be equally ridiculous would be to suggest that the Ministry knew nothing about all these complaints since Stogran and the Liberals have raised it privately and in public many many many times over the last 4 years. I would also be very surprised if that was the very first time that Stogran repeated that statement.

          • Mark R

            I actually agree with Stogran. And angry that they do not do more for Veterans. I have contacted my MP about this. The only problem I have with him is where has he been for 3 years. It took his planned end of term to speak up. Seems disingenuous.

          • tedbetts

            Well, I have heard his complaints before and they have been reported on in public, repeated by the Liberals in QP, etc. Which is nothing compared to what he has been doing behind the scenes like a good civil servant. Read around the blogs: anyone who knows and certainly every vet I see commenting, even those few who disagree with him, all say he was very outspoken about this, even though this is the first time you may have heard about it.

            In fact, it is because of his speaking up so much that he is being let go and Harper isn't even bothering to appoint a replacement.

  • Blacktop

    Better not send a list of the speakers to the PPCLI.

  • John D

    While I can understand Stogran's frustrations, I think he is letting the Government and Parliament off easy by blaming bureaucrats. The buck stops at the top and it is shameful that no one has adressed his concerns so far. I don't really care about the politics of it – it is shameful that it has come to this – but it's time for the Government to fix the problems.

    • tedbetts

      The issue has been raised a number of times in QP by the Liberals over the last 4 years, but still nothing.

  • tedbetts

    He looks a lot like DeNiro in the photo, doesn't he?

  • Trim

    It is a disgrace for Canada, It is a shame that it had to go to the boiling point . Governmental abuse is increasing in Canada at all levels . Govt treats every citizen as a cheater ,unless proved otherwise , they are abusing the soldiers and unfortunately the writer of this article has no respect for soldiers, adding insult to injury , those who talk about patriotism all the time and flood the streets of all major cities with cheap made in China paper flags, plugging the drains and adding to the garbage must show real patriotism by supporting the basic human right of these soldiers , if not as soldiers then as human beings. Harper is responsible for Governmental abuse that has increased since he came into power. he wants every one to fight till the supreme court to get basic justice. most people give in allowing the Govt to extort and abuse the human rights of its own people . Brag about all the good things about Canada and forget about what the Colonel says!
    There is not shortage of people who will celebrate when this mean King Harper is out of power.

  • peter

    The fed's version of WCB. Someone needs to look into the training of the bureaucrats who staff these organizations. The people who offer these services in every jurisdiction seem to have all attended the same charm school. It has to be by design. Who sets the standards? What organization offers accreditation? BTW Conservative bashers, Gulf war I was back in '91, so this problem is institutional, not political.

  • JamesHalifax

    Emily noted:
    "he focused most of his criticism on the most recent government policy shift, called the Veterans Charter.
    Adopted in 2005 by the Liberal-led minority Parliament under Paul Martin,"

    The fact that this ill- treatment of VETS started under the Libs is no reason to carry on bad policy under the Conservatives. I want Stogran to name names of these beaurocrats and let them face the music. Unfortuantely, the red-tape brigade have been there for successive Governements and it will be hard to change the corporate culture.
    Beaurocrats in charge of public policy tend to focus on the monetary issues and forgetting about the human factor. Until the beaurocrats who see soldiers as mere cost drivers change their tune or are ousted, we'll keep seeing these problems.

  • JamesHalifax

    I think we need to change the beaurocrats….not Governments.

    As for the Libs pretending to care about the troops….don't make me laugh. They're the bunch who consistently mistreak the Armed Forces.

    Budget cuts
    Disarming our Forces
    Force Reduction Program
    "Soldiers….in our streets…with guns"

    Sorry Libs…..stop trying to score points on soldiers….and try working with the Government to come up with a solution.

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