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 Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

'Voiced with clarity'

by Aaron Wherry on Friday, August 20, 2010 4:53pm - 0 Comments

Gen. Walter Natynczyk comments on Col. Pat Stogran’s previously stated concerns.

“He has certainly voiced with clarity what the issues are,” said Natynczyk, who held the news conference with his Dutch counterpart, Gen. Peter Van Uhm, who has been on an official visit to Canada…

Natynczyk also encouraged soldiers to speak out, whether at parliamentary committees, to the media or in public, about the issues they face and the needs they have, because every soldier is different. ”Everyone’s had a different war, a different fight. Their family circumstances are different,” he said. “I think the bottom line is we can’t do enough for our soldiers, our wounded soldiers.”

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  • Anon 001

    Wow. One more for the Harper hit list.

  • Emily

    Harper will shortly discover that it's really the air force's turn to be CDS, or that Natynczyk doesn't speak French or needs to 'spend more time with his family' or something.

    • Blacktop

      Yeah man! I don't think he has read QR(Air), QR(Can) It used to be that in those regulations there was something about servicemen keeping their mouth shut unless invited by superiort authority. The only superior military authourity to Nat is the GG. Maybe it doen't count. At any rate, Emily, I think you are roght.
      Sincerfely,
      DUDE

      • Emily

        Gen Hillier kinda blew that one out of the water. LOL

        • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

          Hillier was Canada's de facto Minister of Foreign Affairs from 2006 to 2008 and often seemed to be Canada's de facto Prime Minister.

          Punctilious scruples against opinionated bureaucrats are hilariously anachronistic in the Harper era. The public service has been thoroughly politicised, while the highly-placed who refuse to fellow-travel for the CPC have been cowed or dismissed. The PCO and the PMO are now indistinguishable. Thus a process greeted with outrage and cries of "dictatorship" when begun under Trudeau is now met with indifferent shrugs by people who claim to honour Canada's democratic heritage and the arm's-length civil service that is one of its most necessary components.

          • Blacktop

            Yes, I guess I am old school and long out of the game. Even when I was a "Press Officer" as an uninvited secondary duty I was advised to "limit my activities to those that a good host would be expected to do." And also make sure bags are carried etc etc.

            However, considering the swamp that the UN and NDHQ in respect to self-important military-bureaucrats, in reading Hillier in his book and on the news I thought he is probably the best CDS the Forces have seen for a long time. The really good guys (Hillier, the man from Bosnia (forget his name and the other one in Rwanda ) don't worry. But Hillier was a Lib appointee wasn't he?

            I find it interesting that some of the most effective senior officers didn't come out of the place near Kingston. but were high school graduates, or civil university at best. I also noticed at the time of Somalia those graduates seemed to have morphed from courageous officers to miltary bureaucrats trying to cover their own rears.

            Anyway, a CDS is something different than what I was.

            Very important matters carried out by political non-elected self-important party hack. They never bothered themselves with anything unimportant.

          • Jan

            Are you thinking of Lew Mackenzie and Romeo Dallaire?

          • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

            I find it interesting that some of the most effective senior officers didn't come out of the place near Kingston.

            The best CDS we've ever had was, in my view, Guy Simonds, an RMC man.

        • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

          Those old enough to remember the excoriation Trudeau (rightly) received for appointing Michael Pitfield to the Senate should ask themselves what reaction Harper would earn for doing the same kind of thing. My guess? Yawns from the punditocracy, salted with more fawning nonsense about Harper's "chess-playing" prowess, oriented by a moral compass not too terribly ethically different from that which led the craven mediocrities of the inter-war Politburo to greet with astonished awe Stalin’s skillful out-guttersniping of his hapless foes.

          • Blacktop

            Yeah, Man!

  • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

    Why does Natynczyk hate the troops?

    • Holly Stick

      Next it'll be: Why do the veterans hate the troops?

      • Emily

        When the troops hear the news about how they're being treated it'll be 'why do the troops hate the troops!' LOL

        • Blacktop

          I don't know about you but I admire our troops with crap they have to put up with. Why any of them volunteer for Afghanistan is beyond me . It is really hard to decry their bravery and loyalty to the operation and I have strong feeling for the men and women there, particularly for the families of the wounded and dead. t From the Army's view I suppose it is a good training in real action, re-equip, the ground forces and blood the troops, etc. Trouble, it's only good for that theatre. Not the esprit de corps but the tactics etc.

          I have not been one to favour that stupid operation as I believe it to be futile (as I have said, as soon as the West is out everying will collapse in the face of renewed Taliban insurgency it will be like a sandcastle on the beach on an incoming tide. I can't see the Afghan police and military standing up without the backing of the West. Just my opinion. I am not sure whether LOL means Lordy Oh Lordy but until I do know it will do.

  • tedbetts

    What a week for Harper.

    He finally returns to the public from his long summer vacation and then this week alone:

    - the Veteran Affairs Ombudsman slams the government's efforts for veterans
    - Canada's top soldier agrees that the government's efforts for veterans has been bad
    - the head of the RCMP says the long gun registry is definitely useful
    - the interim replacement of Cheliak – pushed out for his defence of the long gun registry – defended the long gun registry
    - a report comes out showing political interference with the RCMP and its plans to come out in support of Insite because of recent research showing the government's position to be without facts
    - the PM heads to PEI, but because of how open and accessible Ignatieff has been, the focus is on how he won't leave his car let alone take questions

  • Oliver

    No election until next year. No one is near majority territory. I think the LPC would rather wait than simply try to get their own minority.

    • Reverend Blair

      Never say never. Politicians talk themselves into corners, people forget how to do basic math, public opinion shifts. All sorts of things can happen.

      I think the Liberals are slowly being dragged to the political reality that it's extremely unlikely there will be any sort of majority government anytime soon. They'll settle for a reasonably solid minority at this point, I think.

      Now if we could just get them to back a system of mixed proportional representation…

  • Halo_Override

    Jeez, I hope so. And please let it either be a Liberal win of any sort, or a Conservative majority. Then it'll either mean Canada is righting the boat, or things will go the way they've been going at such an accelerated rate that even the complacent moderates who haven't been bothering to care about politics the past few years won't be able to ignore the orchestrated implosion of their federal government.

    That was a terrible run-on sentence, I know.

    • Blacktop

      Sorry, not a Conservative majority. As a minority they are somewhat controllable.

  • Cats

    Oh yeah because the week was capped off with a new leger poll that totally devastates the Liberals and tells Harper he is doing a good job.

    CPC 37 LPC 28 NDP 16 BQ 9 GPC 8

    WHAT A HORRIBLE WEEK!

    Stupid mice.

    • Jan

      Leger online poll, commissioned by Sun Media. I'd love to see the questions.

    • tedbetts

      I really don't know what is more pathetic.

      Leger releasing a "new" poll (online poll and over a long weekend), three weeks after it was conducted, a poll that was conducted BEFORE subsequent polls showing a very small lead.

      Or Cats (and the many other desperate Conservative kool aid drinkers) jumping up and down in exhileration pointing to this "new" poll as having any meaning.

      Or CPC supporters in general desperate for any good news after such a bad bad week that they would even think to publish this poll so far after the fact or promote this story as having some value.

      You know they are starting to feel desperate when they publish old polls as though they were new and start talking about Adscam!

      What a horrible week for Harper indeed. On that we can agree Cats.

      • Patchouli

        Did he really stay in his car in PEI and invite speculation? I would like to read about that.

        Just think what a gawd-awful ugly election it will be. I would like one, but I know it will be about 30 days of pure evilry.

        • Cats

          He had four stops all across the island so he had to drive back and forth to them.

          That's hardly staying in his car.

          Bizzare birds.

          • Jan

            Sounds like you were with him. Is that you, Dimitri?

        • tedbetts

          In his car, no unscripted questions (if he even took any questions at all, which I don't think he did), buffering him from the people. It's no wonder he's so disconnected.

      • Cats

        Ted Betts clearly knows nothing about polling.

        Leger isn't an INTERNET poll in the sense that anyone can go online and vote. It has a list of pre-approved participants who are polled.

        Because of this it is immune from LONG WEEKEND effects and is therefore the MOST RELIABLE of any of the polls recently taken.

        BTW – Harper's lead has GROWN in other polls since this one. So maybe he's at 40% ??

        Nice try Ted Betts. Complete failure though.

        Grasping mice.

        • Jan

          Pre-screened panel members – just like Angus Reid. Sort of the opposite of random sampling isn't it?
          And why don't they tell us the questions asked? And are you just going to ignore how old the poll is?

          • Cats

            Random sampling has the problem of self selection bias.

            By getting them to fill out personal information they can use that to weight the results to the census to make sure they have a representative sample.

            So what if its old ??

            Things have only improved for Harper since then according to other polling companies.

            Victorious Cats!

        • tedbetts

          Oh. Cats. So. Disappointing.

          Not only online but online and pre-screened? From a self-described conservative media chain headed up by Harper's former director of communications, delivered waaay after many other polls from later date and after a really really bad week for Harper. Hmmmm.

          "Grown in other polls since this one". ???? LOL.

          Nothing but lies, lies, lies, lies, of course.

          But now your not even trying. Remember the Harper mantra: for a good faux outrage to work, and when you lie your head off, at least try to make some small part of it at least somewhat plausible.

          So sad and disappointing.

          • Cats

            Wow you don't follow polling. Those were taken around the same time.

            EKOS from then to now has GROWTH.

            Oh and nice crazy insane batty bit about some Sun Media conspiracy to fake the results.

            Just pathetic fish.

          • tedbetts

            Oh. Cats. So sad. Really getting pathetic and desperate.

            There's an old saying: when you've hit bottom, stop digging. Or, in other words, when you've been caught out in an outright fabrication, exposed for all to see, stop making things up.

            As another saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own set of facts. It's no wonder Conservatives are so adverse to facts and knowledge.

            So don't be so outraged when facts don't go your way.

          • Cats

            Ted Betts you can have your own opinion but NOT your own facts:

            EKOS – "TORIES CLAW BACK SMALL LEAD"
            http://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2010/08/tor…

            Harris Decima – "Conservative Support Shows Resilience"
            http://www.harrisdecima.ca/news/releases/201008/8…

            Get over it TED. The Conservatives are showing GAINS since this Leger poll was taken !

            Victorious Cats!

          • Curious

            Cats! Stop already. You were caught out in a complete fabrication and this floundering around picking and choosing some polls and ignoring the bulk of the polls, saying the EKOS poll doesn't matter when it shows the Cons down but does matter when it shows them slightly up, comparing incompatible polls is just making you look worse (didn't think it was possible).

            This kind of weak floundering is what happens when you are so outraged and sick with Ignatieff Hatred Derangement Syndrome that you can't think straight or logically and need to just make things up.

            Sometimes you just have to let go, walk away and save the fight for another day.

            With conservatives like you it's no wonder the vast majority of the country is progressive liberal.

          • Cats

            The BULK of the polls ?

            Three polls show gains for the CPC. Three polls show modest losses.

            And yet we're supposed to ignore the good news and think the sky is falling on Stephen Harper ?

            Give me a break CURIOUS.

            Ted Betts got called out on his nonsense.

            I have now been proven right with my factual evidence.

            VICTORY IS MINE CATS.

          • Holly Stick

            Stupid Conservatives cannot learn. The sooner we boot them out the better.

          • Curious

            Cats: You cited the Leger report as a new report that caps off a good week and then said Harper has grown from there.

            You know nothing. Nothing about polls, certainly. Maybe catnip. And certainly how to lie.

            Scurry away in shame. You've been de-clawed and neutered.

          • Cats

            Curious the latest EKOS poll has shown growth from the previous EKOS poll taken around the same time as Leger.

            That's a direct comparison.

            Assuming Leger's baseline of 37% and the growth trend seen from EKOS (as well as HD from an earlier time frame) we can say that Harper is on an upswing.

            Clearly you no nothing about polls. In fact nothing in general. And you and Ted Betts certainly know how to lie and then foam at the mouth with faux outrages.

            Cats out!

          • Curious

            Catnip.

            You are ridiculous.

            On the one hand, you discount EKOS saying it doesn't count and is worthless and the Leger/Conservative online pre-screened poll is right. But then you turn around and say well, no EKOS shows a growth now so it must be OK. And THEN you try to use the growth from those polls to extrapolate [that is a big word, I know, elitist me: it means "To infer or estimate by extending or projecting known information". "Infer" is just kind of a fancy word for educated guess. And "educated" well, never mind this could go on forever with someone like you] where a Leger poll would be today. tooo tooo funnnny.

            And THEN you try to say we are the ones who don't know how polls work. Now that is ROTFLMAO funny. I bet you believed Clement when he said a larger sample size could make up for the loss of random sampling in the longform census!!

            You should take a valium before blindly slapping at the keyboard as you have. Your outrage and hatred for everything non-conservative has clearly blinded you from any sense of reality.

            Cats is indeed out. On that we can all certainly agree.

          • Cats

            Pathetic Curious.

            One can disagree with the top line numbers of a pollster because of criticisms over methodological effects while still pointing out the trend line numbers as noteworthy (because any effect methodology has on the top line numbers is stable from poll to poll).

            So how are polls trending ?

            Two pollsters, EKOS and HD have showed growth in their latest polls compared to their previous poll.

            The primary criticism of the Leger poll was that its three weeks old.

            I guess the idea is that Harper has a massive lead but maybe it has dissipated over the last three weeks.

            However, other polls show a positive trend line for Harper.

            Using the Leger top line numbers as our base line and applying the trend line from other pollsters (yes, you can do this) then things are just peachy for Harper.

            (Oh i'm sorry did all that go over your head ?)

            Smarter than you Cats.

          • Curious

            LOL.

            Oh, this really is better than a sitcom, Cats.

            First getting caught lying.

            Then admitting that your lovely Leger/CPC poll is online and pre-screened.

            Now admitting that you are playing games with numbers.

            And also demonstrating the lengths you will go to in order to find some positive news for Harper after a dismal dismal two weeks. Reminds me of the the PMO lining Sussex Drive with staffers cheering as the PM came out last winter to give the appearance of popular support to this least popular PM ever.

            And THEN finishing off with a toddler "I'm smarter than you are" rant that is only missing the "nyah nyah nyah".

            Looks incredibly desperate.

            Poll numbers looking good. Policy coming together. Harper in free fall with Canadians trusting him less and less and liking him less and less, and liking the direction of his government less and less; while the opposite is true for Ignatieff. That's what the polls are saying Catnip. No wonder you are so frustrated and outraged all of the time.

            I'm lovin' it. Feeling good about the fall. Really good.

          • Cats

            Shorter Curious:

            I'm a partisan Liberal. No I can't refute your last point and really shouldn't have joined this conversation with Ted Betts at all since i've added nothing.

            Go Iggy !!

            (Rolling eye cats)

  • Holly Stick

    So some three-week-old Leger Poll is being touted as a new one by various lying Stupid Conservatives including the LocknLoad Sun. Looks like this website is much needed (and no, I don't know who is running it but I wish them well).
    http://sunmediawatch.wordpress.com/

    • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

      Thanks for the link, Holly. Brilliant site…

    • Blue

      OK, so the poll has devastating results fot the Liberals 5 weeks into the Summer Tour and not 7 weeks into it.

      Don`t those Stupid ( that`s a good one Holly ! ) Cons know that it takes at least 8 weeks for a Summer Tour to kick in ?

      • Jan

        Hey, if you need this crap to booster Con morale – fill your boots. Just don't think it's getting by anybody.

      • Holly Stick

        No, the poll was taken three weeks into a tour lasting nine weeks altogether. More lying Stupid Conservative math ineptitude.
        http://farnwide.blogspot.com/2010/08/what-stupid-…

        • Blue

          OH, then, if that`s the case, everything is looking much better for your beloved LPC !

          • Holly Stick

            They aren't mine, but they cannot be as bad as the Stupid Conservatives.

          • Blue

            Why do so many of you refuse to make a commitment to your Party when you have the opportunity ?

            Oh wait, that may explain the poor poll results.

          • Holly Stick

            Why do you imagine that only Liberals care about getting rid of a bad, dishonest government?

  • Blacktop

    All this crap about polls is just that. Apart from died-in-the wool types, it's all a sham. Rigged questions, rigged respondents, questionable statistical method, rigged statistical interpretation. All nonsense. People will change their mind at the drop of the hat.

    The problem here is that except for the died-in-the-wool righteous, none of the parties OR their leaders inspire anyone. Whoever is elected will probably because the other guy is un-elected..
    bluster and lack of real leadership and on and on.

    Forget polls until Spring. Maybe someone will step in a bucket of s**t. maybe someone will inspire, but puleese let's pay no attention to the handlers, polls, press lackeys and party hacks until we have that feeling that:
    1. There is a real issue.
    2. The voters blood is hot.
    3. Somewhere, a real leader comes out of the woodwork, even the ghost of MacKenzie King's dog or his mama but none of these weak reeds before us. Sign me "Desparate"

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