Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Australian algebra

by Aaron Wherry on Monday, August 23, 2010 5:24pm - 0 Comments

However loopy matters were here in the early winter of December 2008, we can now look with some pity upon the Australians, they now embarking on their own version of the 2000 U.S. presidential election.

At the moment, with the final count of last weekend’s election still being tallied, the incumbent Labour government has been declared the winner of 72 seats, one short of a majority. The Liberal-National coalition has been declared winners in 70 seats. Of the four seats that remain in doubt, three are leaning toward the coalition, the other to Labour, meaning the two sides could end up tied.

The coalition leads the Labour side on the primary popular vote by a count of 44% to 38%. But Australia’s electoral system also has a two-party preferred ballot and on that count Labour leads the coalition by a count of 50.7% to 49.3%.

One side or the other will have to gain the necessary support to govern from the three independents and one Green who make up the rest of the legislature. The race is apparently on to gain such support, as is the debate over who at the moment can claim greater legitimacy. The governor general would, conceivably, have to sign off, except that in this case the governor general’s daughter is married to a member of the Labour government and so, to avoid a perceived a conflict of interest, the governor general may have to delegate the authority to make this decision.

As far as what follows, it is unclear, from the Canadian perspective, how Stephen Harper’s Rules of Order—coalitions formed after an election are “undemocratic” and “losers” don’t get to form coalitions—would be applied to such a situation. Is a post-election coalition acceptable if it is necessary? What exactly constitutes a coalition? Is it a coalition if one cuts a deal with an individual independent? And, most profoundly, who is the “loser” in the event of a tie?

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  • Not Joe Clark

    Don't they need 76 seats for a majority? Meaning that Labour needs four seats to gain a majority and not only one?

    • kevina

      Well, the Green MP has said he'll support "Labor," not, Wherry, "Labour," so if Labor has 73, you can add one more to make it, in effect, 74. So, they'd need just 2 to get 76.

      • kevina

        But, Wherry did FUBAR the math. 73 is NOT a majority of 150. Sorry, Aaron.;)

      • tedbetts

        Don't forget the Speaker.

  • Emily

    LOL I think we can safely leave Harper's musings out of this. He hasn't gotten it right even once.

    • JamesHalifax

      Emily noted:
      "LOL I think we can safely leave Harper's musings out of this. He hasn't gotten it right even once. "

      And yet…..he still remains the Prime Minister.

      I wonder what would happen if he got it right?

      • Emily

        Well since we all know he's only in there because Libs have had the 'perfect storm' I wouldn't get too excited. LOL

        And after 4 years he's still on a short leash with his numbers in the basement.

  • Blue

    Is there a Separatist`s Party in Australia ?

    In order to have the Iggster Rules of Order transferred to Australia, would it be necessary for the governing coalition to have the support of a Party dedicated to the destruction of the country ?

    • Emily

      You mean the party that was the Official Opposition here?

      • Blue

        Yes, they are called the Bloc Quebecois.

        • Emily

          Yes, a legitimate federal party in Canada. Legitimate enough to be the Official Opposition in fact.

          Hell, if they ran in every province they would likely be the govt. LOL

          • TedTylerEzro

            I don't understand why they don't. It isn't like there isn't sentiment for Quebec to separate from the rest of Canada, outside Quebec.

          • Emily

            Well, from morons perhaps.

          • Olaf

            Scowen, whose book got rave reviews, was an MNA for some ten years and has a degree from Harvard. Not nearly comparable to your academic pedigree I'm sure, but not necessarily a moron, either.

          • Emily

            If he figures Canada can survive without Quebec, he's a moron.

          • Olaf

            Well, you saying it is good enough for me! You have such a pristine reputation for analytical elegance and conceptual clarity, I'd be a fool to even attempt a rebuttal. It would be like arguing against Einstein or Spock.

          • Emily

            I'm glad you finally recognized that.

          • JamesHalifax

            Olaf stated:
            "It would be like arguing against Einstein or Spock. "

            To which Emily replied:
            "I'm glad you finally recognized that."

            To which I respond:

            Umm…Emily, before you collect the accolades there are a few things you need to realize. Olaf may be setting you up to look like a fool.

            For example:
            Einstein – been dead for a while. Arguing with him would be pretty much useless. NO amount of fact, logic, or coercion would work to change Einstein's mind. Great as it was, it was seperated from his body and currently resides in a glass jar somewhere.

            Spock – fictional character. Not real. Played by an actor. One can not argue with Spock….he doesn' exist.

            I think that is what Olaf recognized….and you did not.

            Better luck next time.

          • Emily

            Now that you'rve wasted time trying and failing to explain a joke….

          • Bill Butose

            So you're saying you think the Conservatives AND the Bloc are more popular in Canada than the Liberals?

    • tedbetts

      Do you meant the party the support of which Harper has relied upon a few times on confidence motions to stay in government?

      • Blue

        Yes, that Party. the same Party that signed an agreement to support the Liberal and NDP Parties form a government with 30 less MP`s the the CPC.
        At what price was that support ?

        • tedbetts

          Gotcha. Just checking.

          Support from separatists is OK if it means the survival of the Conservative Party in government.

          Support from separatists is OK if it means the demise of the Liberal Party in government.

          Support from separatists is not OK if it means the demise of the Conservative Party in government.

          Just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly. Which you've now confirmed.

          Conservatives: Our principles don't apply to us.

          • Blue

            You may believe the CPC are in government because of support from the BQ, however, I think the public are well aware that it was the LPC that attempted to hijack our democratically elected government by signing an agreement with a separatist party and take back power with only half as many MP`s as the CPC.

          • tedbetts

            I "may believe"?? Well, thank you for permitting me to have my own opinion about things Blue. How generous of you.

            Actually, Harper's first two budgets passed with the support of the Bloc so it is not a matter of belief but of vote counting so Harper survives as PM to this day because it was "necessary to have the support of a Party dedicated to the destruction of the country" as you put it.

            Yeah, yeah, I know. Again with the facts, eh! Damn they have a way of making the Conservatives look bad a lot of the time.

          • Olaf

            Just to clarify, Ted, you're asserting, as a "fact" that gets in the way of an argument, that having formalized, institutional support of a party via a stipulated agreement for a set period of time is substantially equivalent to having the sporadic, one-off support of that party on discrete issues where your interests align?

          • Crit_Reasoning

            Well, they're both examples of "support from separatists", right? Doesn't this make them essentially the same thing, according to Betts' Equivalence Theorem?

          • tedbetts

            Glad you sought clarification, Olaf, because that is not what I am asserting. I am not asserting that they are substantially equivalent. My ambitions are far more limited: to simply refute Blue in his implication (here, his and Harper's assertion elsewhere) that the Liberals are the only ones who found it "necessary to have the support of a Party dedicated to the destruction of the country".

            Not only did they partner up with the Bloc in suggesting Jean had alternatives, not only did they need the support of the Bloc to take down the Liberal government, but on two budgets – that is, the full financial backing and plans of, and confidence in, the federal government (not just "discrete issues") – the Harper government relied upon "the support of a Party dedicated to the destruction of the country".

          • Olaf

            See, that's why I think it's often good to ask questions, even if you pose them rather pointedly, in response to a (somewhat) ambiguous train of comments. I know, from experience, that you can say that one argument is wrong without saying the exact converse is correct, and it's frustrating when others assume there are only two (black or white?) options.

            As you've reformulated, your point is well taken (at least by me – I think Blue will have more difficulty). Thanks for the clarification.

          • Blue

            But, Isn`t it the nature of a successful minority gov`t to solicit the support of any of the other 3 opposition parties in order to continue as the gov`t as the CPC have done for almost 5 years now.

            The CPC are in the fortunate position of only needing 1 of the other 3 parties at any one time in order to pass confidence votes and you would know better than me, but I think the Liberals voted along side the gov`t more often than the BQ.

            Now the problem with the LPC is that they need the support of the 2 other opposition parties in order to form gov`t. The public might be able to hold their nose while Iggy allowed the NDP to dictate how to tax and spend, but there seems to be a real reluctance to allow the BQ to dictate Intergovernmental Affairs and Foreign Affairs

          • tedbetts

            "Isn`t it the nature of a successful minority gov`t to solicit the support of any of the other 3 opposition parties in order to continue as the gov`t "

            Yes, and the CPC has been able to do so because on a number of occasions they relied upon the support of " a Party dedicated to the destruction of the country".

            "as the CPC have done for almost 5 years now"

            True, when it hasn't cancelled opposition days to avoid confidence votes, prorogued to avoid confidence votes, called elections to avoid confidence votes, broken laws to avoid accountability.

          • Blue

            No, I don`t really believe the BQ are dedicated to the destruction of the country.
            I was just making fun of the fact that a number of hysterical posters here ( Gawd no, not you ) continue to insist that the CPC are out to destroy the country.
            Nobody is listening to your screams in the night.

          • tedbetts

            Excuse me? Make stuff up much? Could you point to where I said they wanted to destroy the country?

            "Nobody is listening to your screams in the night."

            Loud enough to have you come bleating over and over and over. LOL.

          • Blue

            Granted, your posts are not usually of the hysterical type, but I did point that out above.

            But , if I may tell you why I tune out of your posts, and Aaron Wherry`s writings and Iggy`s speeches—they`re so predictable–so repetetious.
            It`s like you guys follow around Harper or Clement or Baird and find the most miniscule reason to tell the rest of us what a bad week they are having.
            After all the created scandals of the past few years, from body-bags to wafers the public are sick of the negativity—if there was a real reason to believe that our country was in any danger from our gov`t, I don`t think you could convince people that you were no longer crying wolf.
            The constant negativity will force all but the most rabid fans of the LPC to tune out. Honestly, I`m at the point where if Iggy just talked about the chances of the Blue Jays making the play-offs in 2012, I would listen intently.

          • s_c_f

            I agree with all of that.

            I think there is some sort of cognitive dissonance that in order to oppose the Conservatives, you have to become a mindless partisan hack screaming bloody murder every minute of every day for the most minuscule and illogical reasons. Then you have to pretend that any opposition to said comments can only be from a corrupt and evil source, or an utter imbecile, regardless of how many millions of people you are talking about.

            I'm consoled by the fact that as long as this type of attitude persists, the Liberals will go nowhere, because it's clear there is no logic to any of it, therefore it cannot possibly convince anyone to change their minds about anything.

        • Be_rad

          "At what price was that support (of the BQ)?"

          If I recall correctly, the agreement was that the BQ would agree to support the coalition gov't in all confidence measures and to not pursue or promote separatism measures for a period of, I think, two years. They would vote their own way on all other matters and would not be formal participants – ie no cabinet positions – in the government.

    • Criacow

      I love this "separatists" as illegitimate meme. These are democratically-elected members of Parliament, and their vote counts the same as anyone else's. It's not like we're talking about Harper and Ignatieff allying with anarchist teenagers in the streets.

      (And yes, Harper has relied on them just as heavily as Ignatieff, if not more so. Because, like it or not, they're MPs and they matter. If you hate them so much, perhaps you should ask why your elected leaders continue policies that force residents of Quebec to feel like they need to vote for the BQ instead of the Conservatives or Liberals.)

      • Blue

        I do not hate the Bloc, but I know who they are and why they are.

        What are these policies from the CPC and LPC that force residents of Quebec to vote BQ ?

        • Emily

          Yeah, they're a regional party. Just like Alberta could have.

        • Style

          If I recall correctly, it is the Conservative party's policy of believing foche is a swear word and the Liberal party policy of embezzling federal funds and buying Quebec votes.

  • BGLong

    The world as we know it shudders and staggers toward its' end …..

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/?p=3781

    enjoy the Canadian reference ..

  • Emily

    Voting is mandatory in Australia too, but obviously it didn't make any difference to the outcome.

    • M_A_D_world

      Perhaps but at least they know that they're a country divided on it's future. Here we have too many potential voters that stay on the sidelines giving journalist a good piece for a slow news week. Regardless of which coalition comes out on top in Australia, they will have a democratically achieved mandate.

      • Emily

        Most western countries have the same 50/50 divide….so mandatory voting doesn't make any difference, and is not a solution to our situation

        In Oz btw it will go to the GG…same as it did here.

        • JSC

          More or less…..

          The governor general would, conceivably, have to sign off, except that in this case the governor general’s daughter is married to a member of the Labour government and so, to avoid a perceived a conflict of interest, the governor general may have to delegate the authority to make this decision.

          • Emily

            Yes, they have one extra kink than we did.

            Not that it helped us any.

        • Not Emily

          Didn't actually read the blog post, did you Em?

          • Emily

            Yes, and all the other articles from Oz.

    • Olaf

      Voting is mandatory in Australia too, but obviously it didn't make any difference to the outcome.

      Which we know for a fact because Emily ran the election again, without mandatory voting, in her laboratory.

      • Emily

        It is believed we get minority govts in Canada because many people don't vote.

        Australia just proved that idea wrong.

        • Olaf

          You do know that who is elected as an MP is based on the percentage of the population who vote for each candidate in a given riding, and not the total number of people who vote in a given riding, right? So, theoretically, we'd have an equal chance of having a majority or a minority government in the country regardless of whether 1% or 100% of the population voted. It depends on who votes, and where those people vote, not on how many vote.

          • Emily

            Are you paying attention at all?

        • LiveBloggin Junkie

          Nobody believes that. You can't find one single solitary example of someone saying that low voter turnout produces minority governments because as Olaf pointed out it has no difference. You have created a straw man out of thin air

          • Emily

            It's been an argument for years and we've all heard it. What IS your problem anyway?

          • LiveBloggin Junkie

            Prove it.

            I'm sure you can find a wiki link to support your claim.

          • Emily

            Go to any coffee shop. At the very least it will stop you being boring on here.

          • LiveBloggin Junkie

            You couldn't find even a single article, web page or blog post to back up your assertion, so you resort to insults. That's quite Harper-esque of you! Congrats!

      • Andrew in Calgary

        I think that the assumption made in Canada (and the US) is that the non-voters are progressive.

        • Emily

          I don't recall anyone making that assumption.

  • Mike514

    I don't think Harper would characterise any one coalition of parties as "losers" since the two main parties are surprisingly very close to each other in both popular vote and seat count.

    If the Labor party had won about two-thirds the number of Liberal Coalition seats, and a good chunk less popular support, and they tried to form government, then I could understand characterising this as a "coalition of losers."

    However, with such close results, can we really state with complete certainty that either party is a loser?

    • Mike514

      A good comparison is Israel, where the two main parties were separated by one seat and less than 1% of the popular vote. With such a close result, I don't think anyone could convincingly call the resulting coalition a "coalition of losers."

      • Blacktop

        Obviously the world is huingering for more democracies. Two Britains (or maybe a Scotland, a Wales, and an Ireland with the rest keeping the Crown, Two Australia (Sidney and everything else),, two Canadas – you guess.

    • Anon Liberal

      I don't think Harper would characterise any one coalition of parties as "losers"
      ———————————————————

      Yes he would.

  • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

    Never ceases to amaze me how the left continues to trip over itself over the 2008 coalition. They still can't stand the fact that it didn't succeed. Worse, they still can't stand the fact that Canadians were never on board. As a result, they've been twisting themselves in knots over the matter ever since, include Mr. Wherry. Bringing up the 2004 letter. Comparison to other countries. It never ends. It's the gift the keeps giving!

    • tedbetts

      Um, half the "left" did not support the coalition according to polls. Canadians just don't think that "coalition" is a game to be played to get anyone into power (2008) or keep them there (as Harper is trying to do by attempting to delegitimize coalitions of democratically elected representatives).

      • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

        Oh, I think Canadians made themselves quite clear about what they thought of the opposition's idea of coalition building in 2008, and I'm sure they'll do it again if and when they get the chance.

        In terms of numbers, if Harper is getting the support of half the voters on the issue, and the opposition is splitting the other half in three, you can see why the PM is eager to bring it up when he can — and infuriate the left while he's at it!

        • Standing By

          I sincerely hope that the conservatives continue to misread Canadian public opinion on the matter of a coalition. I'm glad they think that the circumstantial success of their 2008 lies and misinformation campaign shows that the coalition issue is a winner for them. I look forward to Harper making this an issue in the next campaign, and encourage him and his supporters to continue to ignore the fact that about 7 of 10 voters want him gone.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            You seem to be in the minority, even among your fellow coalition supporters. Most of them seem to get furious every time Harper brings up the prospect of another coalition. The opposition tried it before. Why wouldn't they try it again? And why wouldn't Canadians react the same way they did the last time? Like I said, it's the gift that keeps giving.

            Oh, and I don't think Canadians resent Harper like you do. His party is the most popular in the country, and even those who don't vote for him don't necessarily want him gone like you do.

          • Standing By

            The problem with Canadians is not the idea of a coalition, but mistrust/dislike of Ignatieff as the resulting PM.

            If the Libs can sell Ignatieff in a campaign (and maybe they can, maybe they can't) then the prospect of forming a coalition government won't be an obstacle. In fact, it may embraced as a welcome solution to our Harper problem.

            But I'm quite happy with conservatives misunderstanding this dynamic, so have a nice day.

            See http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canad…

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Our Harper problem? You mean YOUR Harper problem. It's that kind of thinking that led to the coalition failure in the first place, isn't it?

          • JSC

            Now that Canada is the only major Commonwealth Country without a Coalition, perhaps they won't be so against it this time.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Well, coalition supporters kept pointing to other countries as an example, and that didn't work. What they don't get is that coalitions might be alright, but the one that the opposition tried to force on us in 2008 wasn't. I've never seen such illogic when it comes to one issue in Canadian politics. Coalition supporters keep jumping through hoops trying to make that square peg fit a round hole, so to speak. For example, while they keep telling is that the coalition was a great idea, they get furious at Harper for even mentioning it. So, I'm sure it's a fight Harper wants, and some of you, too, for whatever reason. We shall see.

  • Emily

    Congratulations to Australia btw.

    They did better by their female PM than we ever did with Kim Campbell.

    Maybe Oz is more advanced than we give them credit for. LOL

    • JSC

      Kim died on the sword of Mulroney.

      Her major defeat had nothing to do with her being female.

      • Emily

        Kim was the most popular PM in history over that summer.

        Mulroney was forgotten.

        When it came to an actual election….she not only lost, but her party was wiped out.

        • JSC

          "Mulroney was forgotten. "

          I doubt that…Certainly not by me…I still think he should be put on trial for Treason.

          • Emily

            Wild assumption on my part….I assume most Canadians are at least bright enough to be able to tell Kim and Brian apart.

            PS…if you're Con you want to put everybody on trial for treason

          • JSC

            After Brian and the PCs sold us out to the USA with NAFTA, especially when it comes to Water and Oil…I vowed to never vote PC again.

          • Emily

            If we didn't have Free Trade m'dear, you'd be selling pencils on a street corner.

          • JSC

            Wrong!!!

          • Emily

            Well, you'd find apples hard to come by, so I went with pencils.

          • JSC

            LOL…

            Wrong again.

          • Emily

            Without free trade we'd be dead.

            Canada was founded on free trade, survives and thrives on free trade, has free trade agreements with more countries than the US, and is currently negotiating free trade with the EU.

            We were ahead of our time. Today it's part of globalization.

          • JSC

            So you think that without NAFTA,(The way it is), we'd be a 3rd world country with 30 million of us all selling pencils and apples on street corners?

            WOW!…Incredible!

          • Emily

            Trade or die, toots.

          • JSC

            I don't believe it's the way to go.
            I'm Anti-Globalization.
            Out-sourcing jobs overseas,
            Selling our natural resources to Foreign companies and Countries.
            I don't agree with it.

          • Emily

            Well it's happening anyway, so you'll have to get used to it.

            We also GET outsourced jobs, and buy companies and resources in other countries.

    • jdude

      Really? I suppose you merely read the headlines opposed to following previous Australian elections. Labor has had PR issues for as many elections as I can remember. You must not know of half the gaffes Gillard and her "genius" PR team has put together, rather pathetic if you ask me. Her along with Rudd nearly gave the coalition a win.

  • Bill Signal

    Labour should just go for it. They have catered too long with the right over the past three years. No wonder many of their supporters are looking eleswhere. Do your job and look after the country as Australia wants them to do. Support the people that voted for you

  • tono-bungay

    Protect us from a complicated electoral system, where the counting gives a different result from the voting.

    • Chris B

      Like, say, the 1996 BC Election, where more people voted for the Liberals than the NDP, yet the NDP formed a majority government? Or the 2001 BC election where 30% of British Columbians voted NDP only to find that the NDP received 2 of 79 seats?

    • Joe You

      Umm, what?

    • Dave

      The counting is the voting, as per whatever rules the democratically elected legislature have put into place for turning votes into seats. Uncomplicated electoral systems can give wonky results just as easily as complicated ones.

  • Loraine Lamontagne

    Australia doesn't have a Bloc but they don't have leaders or a prime minister who believe it secondary that Australia end up as one national government or two national governments or several national governments. Which is fine because there is no difference between such a position and that of the Bloc.

    They do however have a party called the National Liberal Party of Queensland. They have gained 21 seats. They are part of the Coalition of parties.
    http://vtr.aec.gov.au/

    Caught an interview of the three independents on ABC and it is noteworthy that all are former Nationals, either in federal or in state politics.

    • Kelvin

      The independents say they'll try to work as a bloc when deciding on which party to support. I think that's fair, given the precariousness of the situation, that they should try to maximize the stability of whatever government they'd support.

      All three are indeed former Nats. Though quite a few commentators have noted that the reasons that they're "former" may be big enough to trip up any attempt to work with the Coalition. As Bill Casey can attest, Hell hath no fury like a former conservative scorned.

      The fourth independent is Andrew Wilkie in Denison (TAS). He's said he'll work with either side, but his history is that he was a former intelligence officer that made pointed public criticism on the Howard government on the (mis-)representation of intelligence on Iraq, and he won mostly based on Green preferences (he formerly ran for them). I'd say the ALP is much better positioned to get his support than the Coalition.

      In any scenario, either side WILL have to deal with the Greens, as they hold the balance of power in the Senate.

      • Loraine Lamontagne

        Tony Windsor was particularly 'agitated' when he explained why he had become an independent and his the reasons for his antipathy toward the Howard government for their decisions which affected Windsor's constituency greatly – and negatively. There is no Bloc in Australia but there are regional tensions, particularly from Queensland, which generates much of the Australian wealth – not unlike Western alienation here.

        One thing that shocks me, as an aside, is the residual influence of colonization on both Canadian and Australian politics. Considering the results of the UK elections and the terms of the negociated deal it seems to me that UK politicians are more aware and educated about the role (or lack thereof) of the crown in their political affairs. The document signed by the UK Conservatives/LibDems is a roadmap for avoiding the implication of the crown in political matters. But in Australia and in Canada, our reflex is to turn our sights towards the GG, as if they could or should be acting in these matters rather than the elected parliamentarians.

  • TwoYen

    I have just spent the past month in Australia. This was a major defeat for Labour, not a victory for Abbott. Gillard has serious PR problems and none of them have to do with the fact that she is a woman. The premier of NSW is a woman and her gender has not hurt her ability to win. Gillard wore the unpopularity of Kevin Rudd, who was a control freak and introduced a series of unpopular policies.
    At the same time, most Australians are uncomfortable with Tony Abbott. and aren't particularly enamoured with him becoming prime minister either. The election deadlock was just about the most accurate reflection of the public's mood I can imagine. Abbott will need the support of the three conservative independents to get his majority, but they all have reservations about him. The irony is that Gillard has a good chance of securing their support and will end up remaining as PM with the support of three conservative independents holding the balance of power.

    • Mike514

      Gillard wore the unpopularity of Kevin Rudd, who was a control freak and introduced a series of unpopular policies.
      Gillard was a part of Rudd's government, and therefore must share at least some responsibility for Rudd's policies. Are you suggesting that Gillard should be completely immune from any criticism of the Labour government under Rudd?

      • Mike514

        In fact, she was deputy PM under Rudd, not a mere backbencher. Can anyone credibly distance her from Rudd?

        • TwoYen

          I am not suggesting at all that she can avoid any responsibility from her time in the Rudd cabinet. That's why she suffered such a devastating defeat considering the unpopularity of Abbott. It was precisely because she was a member of the Rudd cabinet that she wore the defeat.

          • Mike514

            My bad. I thought you were blaming Rudd while absolving the rest of his party/government. I would assume that Australians were fed up with Labor in general, and not merely Rudd. When you singled out the unpopularity of Rudd, rather than Labor, I guess that's where I mistakenly inferred that you were separating the two.

    • David_M.

      Wow TwoYen, you really get round the world!
      Were you in Australia specifically to observe the election?

    • Emily

      It's amazing. Apparently Aussies can't tell women from men either. LOL

    • s_c_f

      The election deadlock was just about the most accurate reflection of the public's mood I can imagine

      That's the great thing about democracy. Elections don't lie.

    • TwoYen

      I should have said that Gillard "may" end up remaining PM with the suppport of the independents since the outcome is still not certain. Abbott still could emerge victorious if he can convince the independents to support him. The Green Party MP has said he will support Labour although his leader has pretended the vote is open for negotiation. We likely will have to await the final tally of the preferences before the negotiations can be completed.

  • Mike T.

    austrailegebra?

  • herringchoker

    What an assinine post. The Australians have been holding elections under the current rules for the best part of a century, so I'm sure they'll muddle through somehow.

    The fact is this was a close election and its reflected in the results (although I note that Aaron has excised the first-party preference vote of the Greens and the independents from his tallies. Together they took 18% of the vote.). In that respect it's no different than the Nova Scotia election in 1998, the SK election in 1999 and the NB election in 2003. In each of those cases, it took a few days (and a few recounts) to determine who was going to govern.

    Any comparison to 2008 is fatuous. In that case the winner was clear on electiion night. The procedural jiggery-pokery began two months later, ala the Jack & Gilles plan to change the government without asking the voters.

    • Loraine Lamontagne

      I thought the procedural jiggery-pokery began a little less than two months after the election, when the government tabled an economic update including a slight surplus and their decision to change the rules for political financing without ever having mentioned it to the electorate.

  • Joe

    When I first came to Canada from Australia a few years back I was amused at how little people knew about it. Now I am truly amazed at the knowledge people have and the interest in it's political system. Unless of course the above are all Aussie expats.
    I wonder if the political systems between Aust and Canada are that dissimilar.

  • Sluggo

    As of 5 September the Coalition has 73 confirmed seats labor 72 with the Coalition have the the popular vote in the bag. It is not a majority, needing 76 seats. the sole green has signed on to Labor .
    Julian Gillard is a non-elected PM. A union lawyer, control freek,lesibian, with a gay hairdresser for a partner !!! Rudd was not good, however if Australia get her they are out of the frying pan and deep into the fire. Let us hope common sence prevails

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