Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Information as the enemy

by Aaron Wherry on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:27am - 0 Comments

While an evaluation report of the gun registry languishes in some sort of bureaucratic purgatory, the office of Public Safety Minister Vic Toews explains why you don’t need to see it anyway.

“Canadians don’t need another report to know that the long-gun registry is very efficient at harassing law-abiding farmers and outdoors enthusiasts, while wasting billions of taxpayer dollars,” a spokesperson for Public Safety Minister Vic Toews told the Star Tuesday.

This all may sound familiar. Last November, around the time of the last vote on the long-gun registry, another report was delayed and the office of the Public Safety Minister used nearly the exact same words to explain why. The dispute inspired one of the greatest displays of ministerial obfuscation in modern history from Mr. Toews’ predecessor.

A day later it was reported that the report had been submitted four weeks previous. Last May, evidence turned up that the report had been submitted seven weeks previous.

Tags: firearms, gun registry, long gun registry, Peter Van Loan, RCMP, Vic Toews

More by Aaron Wherry

Emily

Cons treat voters like mushrooms….kept in the dark and fed sh*t.
Richard_S_Argent

I'm trying to figger out what exactly the difference is between Harper's Conservatives and Chretien's Liberals.

I got nuthin'

Any ideas?

Charles H.

The CPC hasn't yet had a catchy name applied to a scandal so that it can be trotted out as excusing every misstep or offence that the LPC commits.

Beyond that? I'm not so sure either.
wsam

Their policies, like the long gun registry.
danby

Liberal supporters acknowledge Jean Chretien's faults as well as his strengths.

Mr Harper is a white knight forever besieged and betrayed by:
1) biased media
2) liberal civil servants
3) evil coalition forces
4) troop hating traitors
5) ungrateful public

RunningGag

You get thumbs up for the phrase 'evil coalition forces'. My enjoys it.

John D

Sense of humour?
Anon 001

Chretien won 3 consecutive majorities. Harper is still trying.

Chreitien had at least one, possibly three, proven, capable people ready and (more than) willing to take over. Harper has none.

Chretien had a sense of humour.

Chretien had the same Chief of Staff and Communications Director for most of his tenure. Harper goes through them like toilet paper.

I'm sure there are more.

… Oh wait. Chretien never wrote a book on hockey.

Sigh

I think that last point is a similarity, not a difference.

Mike T.

Chretien could be cold and calculating to serve his political ends, Harper does it just because its his nature.

And Chretien was further right wing, fiscally.

wsam

Chretien never called Canada a dangerously smug scocialist dystopia.

RunningGag

Shawinigan handshake?

Richard_S_Argent

Whereas Harper had his "good luck son" handshake :)

RunningGag

Mr. Harper has yet to be pied?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afp9H1tLmro

LynnTO

Perhaps not, but Gail Shea has…

YYZ

Chretien balanced the budget.

Richard_S_Argent

perhaps I should rephrase:

"I'm not sure why the Conservatives insist on emulating the worst instincts of the Chretien Liberals."

:)

Olaf

I, for one, appreciate the government censoring the information I am able to access. Canadian citizens in general don't have the knowledge or expertise needed to analyse this type of report; it will confuse us at best and stress us out at worst.

A great philosopher once said, freedom of information necessitates freedom from information. Think about it… harder… exactly. How can we go on with our daily lives if we're constantly being beseiged with reports and information and knowledge? That's why we elect governments, people.

PolJunkie

Are you being sarcastic?

Olaf

No, I'm not. The government is doing exactly what we elected it to do – governing. Every single time they actually release information all they get is more questions from the media and opposition, and then they have to answer those questions by releasing more information, which lead to other questions, and then it just turns into a vicious cycle of questions and answers, a dangerous typhoon of information, and no one has time to actually, I don't know, run the country. Are they the Government of Canada, or Ask Jeeves? If you want some sort of information dissemination service, go on wikipedia or read a book or something.

Amateur Hour

The depths of your ignorance know no bounds.

Olaf

You're at the tip of the iceberg my friend.

Sean

I find the tweets of Clement and Kenney tell me all I need to know. A little bit lengthy at times, though. I eagerly await the post-literate-post-Twitter world where all communications are no more than ten characters and an emoticon.

Olaf

Words get kind of tiresome though, even if you limit them to 10 words. I would be more than happy with a picture book, that had icons indicating policy issues and then a picture of the party representative using body language and facial expressions to indicate my appropriate response. For example, we could have pictures of a long gun picture of a guy filling out a form, and then Toews with a angry/frowny face and a two thumbs down. That would tell me just about all I'd need to know, and in only a few seconds so that I could go back to playing snood!
Sean

I take it you've seen Stockwell Day's PowerPoint presentation arguing against gay rights, then?
Olaf

Oh yea! In that one he's making an 'icky' face and provides a useful visual aid that definitively proves that man + man = skeleton getting hit by lightning bolt. That really spoke to me. Fortunately, he used to tour the province and give that presentation to us kids in elementary school back when he was an Alberta MLA, so I've been on right side of the issue from day one.
Crit_Reasoning

Ah yes, I fondly remember those classroom presentations. That's how I learned that on the sixth day, God created dinosaurs, and on the seventh day He liquefied them and buried them under Ft. McMurray.
Olaf

We called them "Day Days". And after the presentations and the mandatory screening of "The Ten Commandments" (or was it a recording of an NRA rally?), we got to eat hot dogs and dixie cups in the gymnasium. Ahhhh memories…
tedbetts

Hey! You're onto something there Sean. Save time and increase efficiency by reducing the amount of words we use/need and reducing the excess communication. The first language to aim to reduce words instead of increase words. We could even give it a name to distinguish it from English. I don't know. How about "NewWord" or "NewTweet" or maybe Newspeak or something.

BCer in Mtl

Given that a vote is imminent on the subject matter of the report, one would hope that at least all duly elected representatives see the report upon which they may help base their individual decisions in the vote; making it public would actually allow for the people in their ridings to hold their members accountable.

But, maybe I am completely out of line here, perhaps father Vic does know best.
http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

You are, of course, leaving out that they release / generate supportive materials, and only censor the bad stuff.

YYZ

Yes he is, don't listen to his lies. ; )

Richard_S_Argent

I suspect this might be another time that a winky might've been helpful :)
Crit_Reasoning

Yes, imagine what would happen if humble citizens like us had access to information that might contradict the government's version of things. That might lead citizens to question other things the government has been telling us, which might in turn lead to a loss of confidence in our elected leaders, political instability, and possibly even anarchy. You don't want anarchy, do you? Riots, chaos, hippies in the streets, dogs and cats living together?

Phil

You don't want anarchy, do you? Riots, chaos, hippies in the streets, dogs and cats living together?

I was OK with anarchy until the part about dogs and cats living together; that's where I will have to draw the line.

ColdStanding

Cats and dogs living together was a Bill Murray line in the '79 movie Stripes.

Olaf

I thought it was Ghostbusters. Mass hysteria!

Sean

It can only lead to rampant hamster polygamy. Mark my words.
BCer in Mtl

I often see remarks here from Cats, but I have to say I don't recall seeing any from someone named Dogs. Even so, I didn't know they even knew each other.

ColdStanding

You have access to all kinds of information already, and you aren't really making use of it.

(The use of "you" in the above statement was meant to be taken as a global you-but-not-just-you you.)

Amateur Hour

"That's why we elect governments, people."

Unless this is sarcasm, your argument is profoundly wrong on almost every level.

We elect MPs to represent us in Parliament. Parliament forms a government.

Blocking a report about a policy's effectiveness interferes with our elected officials making sound policy decisions as our representatives.

Olaf

Oh, quit being so naive, will ya? Our MPs will read reports and make sound policy decisions when I'm the Queen of England. Until then, the backroom boys and girls will do a bit of polling and strategizing, tell the party leader which side of the issue they should be on, the party leader says "well, of course, I held that position all along", and makes all of the party MPs vote in favour of that position, who then tell their constituents they held that position all along. It's quite degrading, actually.

These type of reports just make matters worse, because it's just another document that partisan analysts will scour for examples of why their pre-established position is right, and their opponents pre-established position is wrong. Then they'll relay to their supporters only those facts that support their position and pretend any countervailing factors don't exist, then partisans buy their party position hook, line and sinker, pat themselves on their backs and say "finally, a decision based on principle; we are moral giants", while normal Canadians tune out. No, I courageously refuse to be complicit in this farce.

Sigh

I eagerly await your ascension to the throne.
Phil_King

But your majesty, aren't you equally complicit if you simply ignore what is being done in your name?

No matter how much one may wish to spin facts, if there's nothing in the report to go on, then… I guess you end up with the current conservative position? LOL
Amateur Hour

"Then they'll relay to their supporters only those facts that support their position and pretend any countervailing factors don't exist, then partisans buy their party position hook, line and sinker, pat themselves on their backs and say "finally, a decision based on principle; we are moral giants", while normal Canadians tune out. No, I courageously refuse to be complicit in this farce.""

Given yours is a succinct description of the Harper Government's approach to policy-making and public engagement, I take it you will "refuse to be complicit in this farce" and not be voting Conservative. Or are you holding out for the Queen's return, this time as an absolute monarch, who can simply appoint smart people to run things and dispense with this tiresome democracy?

Stupid: the new black.

RunningGag

Stupid: the new black.

RACISM!!!!1!
Amateur Hour

It's a fashion statement , ya rube.
RunningGag

I blame society.

PolJunkie

Oh wow… There's no sarcasm. Olaf is dead serious.
YYZ

I'm enjoying this.
http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

But no one elected this government. We don't have a popular vote, and if we did, they wouldn't win it. So I don't think you should be so quick to hand them the keys to the T-Bird.

Olaf

But no one elected this government.

Huh? Care to flesh that one out a bit? Was there a military coup I missed?
http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

We didn't directly elect "a government". So even if you want to ignore our Westminister system, we're still left with a government that didn't get close to half the votes, and doesn't have half the seats. So how can we just let them say "trust us, you don't need to know"?

I'm saying that your position would be scary in a majority situation, but is just nutty right now. The Cons only govern for as long as the opposition doesn't oppose them.
Amateur Hour

I tried to point that one out above … to no end, I'm afraid.
Olaf

Who said we "directly" elected "a government"? You said "no one elected this government", which I took to mean the government was somehow not a democratically elected government because it "didn't get close to half the votes, and doesn't have half the seats". However, I'll admit that your words could be construed in the annoying sense of "we don't vote for governments, we vote for MPs, who are asked by the Queens representative to form governments *snicker snicker*", like someone ignoring your substantive point and correcting your grammar.

But your critique would seem to apply to most previous governments. Only two since WWII have had more than half of the popular vote ('84 Mulroney and the Chief, with Uncle Louis coming close). Martin had 37% (less than Harper). Chretien had 41%, 38% (less than a percent more than Harper), and 41%. Every other government has been around the 35-45% range (within which Harper is), even before the Bloc changed the math. So I'm not sure what you're saying here.
http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

Well, fine, but I also think it's crazy to suggest that governments should be able to selectively suppress information, even if they're a majority. Or even with 50+1% of the popular vote. I was just saying that in this case, it's even nuttier, since it's a minority government.

danby

A great philosopher once said, freedom of information necessitates freedom from information

Hmmmm. That's a deep thought….. looks to be about six feet deep.
I tell you what. You get in and use this tape measure to confirm the depth and I'll throw shovelfuls of dirt on top to make sure it doesn't get away…..

There's a few extra shovels. Can anyone give me a hand here? :)
Phil_King

Sorry Olaf, a lot of times you make sense, but I think you're reaching on this one, and your reach has exceeded your grasp.

The release of the report would allow for informed debate amongst those who are perfectly capable of comprehending it.

Your opinion of the average Canadian notwithstanding, many of us can easily read and understand such documents.

Most politicians are not experts on the topics they cover. There's a reason why they traditionally hire thousands of experts to develop policy after all. So we elect representatives not as experts, but as individuals tasked with finding the facts and making intelligent decisions based on those facts. So while I agree they do this work so others who can't don't have to, they are still just a link in the chain so to speak, not a chain on their own, and when they openly disregard or hide facts and can't convincingly explain why, I think their motives should be questioned.

Frankly I see no argument to defend hiding this information beyond protecting the government's image.

PolJunkie

He's being sarcastic. He can't possibly be serious.

Phil_King

Yeah well he is a bit of a contrarian, and hopefully is being sarcastic, but then you never know with Olaf do you?

At least he makes things interesting? LOL

Phil_King

And of course now he's come out and clarified his sarcasm and revealed his cynicism, so I guess you were right.

"…A cynic is a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, and not as they ought to be…"
Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914)
Colin

He is clearly being sarcastic. In his more obviously serious moments he consistently reiterates that facts must be publicly acknowledged even if they work against ideological positions, because presumably those ideological positions have independent justification – which should be what is invoked in their favor. The position taken here would be directly contradictory to that one, and is quite obviously tongue-in-cheek.
Phil_King

Not so clear to me on first blush. He does an excellent impression of a social conservative. LOL
RunningGag

Such is Poe's Law.
Phil_King

I was unfamiliar with that particular law, so I expect some others are too.

"…Poe's Law points out that it is hard to tell parodies of fundamentalism (or, more generally, any crackpot theory) from the real thing, since they both seem equally insane. Conversely, real fundamentalism can easily be mistaken for a parody of fundamentalism…"

It certainly explains why so many social conservatives still like Colbert eh?

Thwim

Oddly enough, I tend to agree with your second point on this issue. No, seriously. Part of the reason we elect governments is so that they can specialize in the tasks of.. well.. governing.. thus giving the rest of us the time and ability to go on and do productive work.

Unfortunately, when the government keeps these reports away from its own members.. or simply ignores them altogether.. that's where it breaks down and the rest of us need to be able to access them.
http://dougsamu.wordpress.com doug_rogers

I admire the exquisite level of satire in this. Swiftian.

Anon Liberal

Why do we even need Ministers if they're just going to parrot the PMO party line?

wsam

Harper's mouth gets tired if he has to do all the talkinghimself
Thwim

Hey, we were the ones who wanted stimulus spending. Perhaps next time we'll remember to specify *useful* stimulus spending.

tedbetts

Thank goodness our political and intellectual betters are making all the tough decisions for us. Life is so much nicer without having to worry about having to make decisions for ourselves. I think Canadians are much better of not knowing things and trusting in their government. Whether it's reports on how useful and efficient and cheap the gun registry is, a census, access to information requests, detainee documents the government is legally obliged to provide, whatever… I've got more important things to worry about in a democracy.

Ignorance is strength, afterall.

Olaf

Great minds… something… er… the same stuff… together.

tedbetts

See? It's working! With less information, we're all getting along better!!!

Stewart_Smith

Kudos to the Conservatives for this one. By my reckoning they are only a few weeks from being able to cleverly change their response to.

There is no need to release the report from the Commissioner of Firearms as it is woefully out of date, just like the long form census data. Moreover this government believes it is simply wrong to expect this government to supply information to parliament on a mandatory basis and will instead provide (maybe) some voluntary information for you to look over.
wsam

Is referring to hunters as ‘outdoor enthusiasts’ akin to calling elderly adulterers as ‘super-young booty enthusiasts’?

Sean

That's pretty offensive. Hunters and fishers have spearheaded and supported many policies and movements to protect and preserve our natural lands.

wsam

I have no problem with huntng. The euhemism surprised me.

But then. What would expect from a 'young-booty enthusiast' like Vic Toews, err, I mean adulterer; and new father. Especially because he was so firm on protecting the sancity of marriage by denying it to homosexuals.

Holly Stick

And he's such a credible proponent of morality.

Lord Kitchener's Own

It's like Ducks Unlimited. Sounds like an organization that's all about saving ducks and wetlands, which it is.

What people don't always realize is that they're an organization founded by hunbters who want to preserve wetlands for ducks SO THEY CAN SHOOT THEM.

Dave

And the problem with that would be?

wsam

Vic Eeuwwss impregnated his 31 year old asisstant. He was married at the time and was a bedrock social conservativism known for his opposition to gay marrage because that would destroy hetro marriage.
Lord Kitchener's Own

None, from my point of view, but there are some who would find some irony in what could be described as a "save them so we can kill them" movement.

Sean

I don't see a huge moral difference between responsible hunting and having a section of forest cleared to pitch your tent on in a campground, for example. Both have some impact on the natural world, but both can be practiced with restraint and in a manner that preserves our natural heritage for future generations.

I also don't get why hunters are so easy to paint as bloodthirsty killers, whereas sitting down for dinner at the Keg is somehow a neutral act (and the latter arguably does far more environmental damage than the former).

Olaf

Exactly. All of the hunters I know actually eat the meat of the animals they kill. Duck, quail, venison, rabbit, what have you. I'm always shocked how people can draw a moral distinction between hunting for food in the wild (barbaric!) and just eating food someone else has rounded up for them and summarily slaughtered (delicious!). If anything, the latter sounds more morally questionable, given the living conditions prior to those animals being eaten.
wsam

Is it easy to protray hunters as blood thirsty monsters?

It's not as easy as protraying Vic Toews as a non-martial sex enthusiast.

Halo_Override

If Vic Toews was a martial sex enthusiast, there would be uniforms and physical struggling, and I don't think any of us are ready to deal with that kind of imagery.

PolJunkie

'While an evaluation report of the gun registry languishes in some sort of bureaucratic purgatory, the office of Public Safety Minister Vic Toews explains why you don’t need to see it anyway."

I feel like I'm in some sort of twilight zone.

LynnTO

I thought I read somewhere that the report is still being "translated". In which case, I wonder if the only copy of the report is sitting on a translator's desk under a pile of papers.

I also wonder if the Translator had to be sent for language training, too.

Jan

It was sent for translation back in March, after fter prodding from the committee. Yesterday, Shelley Glover( did you know she is a police officer?) said it would be released soon. Another Operation Fumble.

Sigh

The RCMP said it could be on their website as early as next week.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/gunregistry/ar…

wsam

Instead of Vic Toews could you please write ‘booty-enthusiast’.

Patchouli

It's okay, little Canucks: our Big Daddy government knows best. We don't need no stinking information, just to be scared (Russian fighter jets! Over Canada!) and overseen.

Holly Stick

Isn't it nice of those Russians to provide Airshow MacKay with an excuse to buy new toys?
http://thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com/2010/07/re…

Jenn_

Do we know who that tenacious reporter was from last November?

Could we get that same reporter to reprise his role with this Minister?

Also, if there is evidence that both the RCMP and the Minister were not completely truthful about when the report was submitted, could a reporter maybe follow up on that discrepancy? I mean, I don't like to think that government Ministers and the RCMP lie to us REGULARLY, as in, any time they ever say anything, but if we never hear a response to these examples, is it because we don't ask, or because a response is never given?

PolJunkie

We are talking about the same press gallery that allowed Harper to do a presser without being asked about the census, yes?

Don't hold your breath.

Style

This is fascinating stuff about how long it really takes to release a document, a day, four weeks, seven…but could somebody point me to the news article that reveals the report's contents contradicted the Minister's description? Because, I tell you, that's what's interesting about the report…
LynnTO

“Canadians don’t need another report to know that the long-gun registry is very efficient at harassing law-abiding farmers and outdoors enthusiasts, while wasting billions of taxpayer dollars,” a spokesperson for Public Safety Minister Vic Toews told the Star Tuesday.

This would imply that the report says that the registry wastes money and harasses law-abiding citizens.

But I don't think that's what the report says, otherwise, I'm fairly certain Toews would be parading it around like it was his newest grandchild. I'd like to see the report, please.

PolJunkie

You betcha!
DBM

What he means is that Canadians have formed a view on the gun registry, and if Fox News has taught us anything, it's that people like having their existing views confirmed – not challenged.

Having one's view challenged is confusing and can make one angry. One becomes prone to stupid statements and irrational activities. One will do almost anything, no matter how dumb or illogical, to avoid acknowledging just how wrong one's pre-conceived view was.

We elect governments to insulate us from that kind of thing.

LynnTO

I know precisely what Toews meant, but my point was that what he said, by juxtaposing the "common view" with the report, implies something different.

In English classes, we refer to such things as double entendres. in Politics, we call it shoving words into (people/places/things) mouths.

WDM

Stephen Colbert would be proud. This is a government of truthiness.
PolJunkie

No. Canada is the sitcom because we seem content to sit back and allow this government to treat us like a bunch of morons. Perhaps we are indeed morons.

What other civilized and democratic nation would allow its government to get away with saying something like this? It's not like Harper bothers to do this behind closed doors anymore. He's now opting to lie directly to our faces.
http://www.translucid.ca/site/flacklife-the-translucid-blog/ bobledrew

I find Minister Toews to be a great disappointment as a parliamentarian, and I find his publicly-demonstrated hypocrisy nauseating. This sort of dissembling doesn't surprise me in the least. I'm a bit surprised and disappointed that grassroots Conservatives have not protested his continuing in politics.

wsam

We could also refer to Vic Eeeuwws as a 'non-marital sex enthusiast'.
PolJunkie

Like that's specific to Toews? Have you met Tony Clement? Peter Van Loan? Jason Kenney?

wsam

Tony Clement diddled his assissent.

The only thing Jason Kenney is diddling is the desert tray.

Stewart_Smith

Some of this is making Pat Martin's declaration a lot more understandable.

Emily

Harper seems to be trying to give Saparmurat Niyazov a run for his money on sheer flakiness.
danby

Coming this fall:

“Canadians don’t need another report to know that the government books are rock solid, with every cent fully accounted for. There's just no need wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on Auditor General reports" a spokesperson for Prime Minister Stephen Harper told the Star Tuesday……
Stewart_Smith

“Hello citizens, I am Vic Toews. Do you want to read that report? Of course you do. Will I let you? You know I can't. Look at Stockwell, now back to me, now back to Stockwell. Hear us speak. The words we say are just like the words in the report. Do they say the same thing? Listen to me, listen to Stockwell, now listen to me. They almost do, sort of. You're in the woods, a stag nearby. You take your shot! The stag becomes the census and the census is dead. Anything is possible when your government can redact like a man. Silverfish handcatch!

tedbetts

Well done.
wsam

I like.
john g

LOL. Brilliantly done.

SHWM

Federal government civil servants "evaluating" a government program implemented by federal government civil servants. Of course they're going to report it's the bees knees, no matter how many billions it costs or how ineffectual it is as a crime solving tool. Toews's spokesthingie is right, who cares what the bureaucrat's report says?

If you are a liberal, you oppose the firearm registry as it is illiberal, an unreasonable layer of bureaucracy of little use at enormous cost. Support it if you wish, just don't call yourself a liberal because it is the opposite of liberal.

lenny

That should be, "no matter how many gazzillions it costs…"
lenny

Might I also suggest you replace "no matter…how ineffectual it is as a crime solving tool", with, "no matter how difficult it makes crime solving"

LaxAtlDfwYow

What strikes me lately is how little effort Harper and his minions seem to be putting into defending all this crap.

Honestly, does anyone take a Soudas overnight release of yet another Russian bomber flight as a serious attempt to defend an untendered and perhaps unnecessary fighter purchase? Does anyone take Toews seriously when he makes deliberately misleading and frankly absurd statements as in this case? Does anyone take Clements defense of s***-canning the LFC as reasoned argument?

They're not even trying anymore. I can't help but think that in private, they must be having one hell of a good laugh. Harper to Toews: "And that bull about Canadians not needing to see reports. Forcrissake, Vic, I almost spit my coffee on Dimitri when he told me!"

PolJunkie

"What strikes me lately is how little effort Harper and his minions seem to be putting into defending all this crap."

Why would he? The outrage (except for the census) has been minimal. Harper will likely get away with it… again.
Stewart_Smith

I agree, Dimetri was a stud as a barking dog in his former role, but since his promotion he is just another Peter, at least in principle. Without the PMO's PR machine the Conservative Ministers are pretty hapless in taking anything to the public.
wsam

Toews impregnated his John Baird.

http://twitter.com/theEARLofSWIRL @theEARLofSWIRL

- The Harpocrites are the party that say are AGAINST the idea of "The Nanny State", yet "…we don't need to see the reports"!!!!

-I am insulted that they just keep using the same spin and lies on every issue – c'mon PMO, make up some new ones
john g

How ironic. We are getting warnings about the dangers of suppressing information that does not support the chosen narrative…from the Canadian media.
danby

I pray it wasn't homo

Holly Stick

Mary Walsh made the same joke when she gave him chocolate milk.

Crit_Reasoning

Olaf's right – it's from Ghostbusters, not Stripes. :)

Phil

Grrrr……would you guys please make up your minds. ;-)

In any event….Thanks! Did not know that. I did see the movie way back when, but never since. :-)

However, I do know that Ghostbusters had a more memorable soundtrack.

NorthernPoV

Another Orwellian statement from a Harper minister.
Another brief flare in the blog sphere.
Another awesome silence from the indifferent masses and their mass media hypnotists.