Inkless Wells

Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW
He also offers his thoughtful perspective of Stephen Harper’s last 10 years in his recent eBook, The Harper Decade.

Rights and Democracy: Time keeps on slippin’…

by Paul Wells on Monday, August 30, 2010 11:19am - 0 Comments

Last week I decided to check in on the Deloitte forensic audit of Rights and Democracy, which the agency’s interim president announced in February and expected to receive three weeks later. In May the new president expected to make it public in June. In July he said it wouldn’t be available before the end of the summer. (The electronic trail of all of this can be found by clicking on the “Rights and Democracy” tag at the bottom of this blog post.)

I wrote to the communications people for Rights and Democracy:

It has now been just over a month since I last inquired about the Deloitte audit of Rights and Democracy. I am writing today with some further inquiries, which I hope you’ll pass along to Mr. Latulippe or anyone who can answer them.

1. Has Deloitte delivered the audit?

2. If so, when was it delivered?

3. If it has been delivered, when will it be released to the public and/or the Commons committee on foreign affairs?

4. In the interest of transparency and accountability, please account for any delay between Rights and Democracy’s receipt of the audit and its release to parliamentarians and the public.

5. If Deloitte has not yet delivered the audit, do you know when it will?

Thanks once again for all your help.

Sincerely,

Paul Wells

This morning I received a reply from Gérard Latulippe directly. Here it is in its entirety:

Dear Mr Wells;

I received your email query .

In response to your question as to whether Deloitte has delivered the audit, I am pleased to tell you that I just received the final report. I am sending it to Rights & Democracy’s lawyers to obtain a legal opinion on the report’s contents. It will also have to be translated, as per Rights & Democracy’s Official Languages obligations.

Once the legal consultation and translation are complete, the report will be given to the members of Rights & Democracy’s Board of Directors for discussion .

As to the audit report’s distribution, it is for Rights & Democracy’s Board of Directors to take the decision. In that regard, the only information I can provide at this stage is that the next scheduled meeting of the Board is October 25, 2010.

Please feel free to contact me if you need any further clarifications.

Yours truly,

Gérard Latulippe

Président, Droits et Démocratie – Rights & Democracy

I wrote back, asking whether I understood correctly: Will the Deloitte report not be sent to the Foreign Affairs minister or the Commons foreign-affairs committee before the board meets in late October? Latulippe replied:

It is not clear for me at this point. It will be for the board to decide if they want a special meeting before the October board meeting which [would] involve a special procedure and cost.

I don’t know about all of you, but I’m torn. On one hand, it’s starting to be a while since the new board majority at R&D took it into its head to order up a forensic audit, with the promise that it would cast a proper light on the financial mismanagement that Aurel Braun and his lot had spent months cavalierly alleging. There was, back then, a tone of urgency to the whole project. Results would be made public “as soon as possible” after the board accepted the report, Jacques Gauthier, who still sits on the board, promised. That promise permits, but did not really imply, a two-month delay for the board to accept the report, more than five months after Deloitte blew the original three-week timeline.

On the other hand, one is reluctant to urge the R&D board to get the lead out, since it would “involve a special…cost.” This late-breaking concern for special costs can only be lauded, given that the last time anyone checked, two months ago, the new board majority’s ingenious and breathtaking list of “special procedures” had already blown half a million taxpayer dollars. All of this because Aurel Braun didn’t like expenditures amounting to less than one-twentieth that amount when R&D staff briefed him on his arrival.

So hurry up, take your time, whatever. All I can say, at the risk of repeating, is that I will not ever let this story go until the R&D board coughs up the financial transparency they promised, so many months and so much taxpayer money ago.

Some people, many of them friends of the Harper government who used to like to write about how Aurel Braun and the rest of the cavalry were finally going to set things right at the agency, have lately taken to wondering, with exhausted exasperation and amusement, why I keep at it. The answer is simple. Rémy Beauregard died while he was, by every account, well on the path to cleaning up R&D’s administration and making it an effective global advocate for the human rights all Canadians cherish. Aurel Braun and the gang were already well along in a concerted campaign to smear Beauregard’s name and they did not let his death stop them. Very well then. They will provide proof of their claims, or bear the responsibility such shocking and profligate behaviour deserves.

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  • Kaplan

    It's great that you're posting these exchanges. Revealing, and necessary. I only hope the truth comes out.

    • It's Crazy

      Remember what happened to Helena Guergis?

      • http://www.translucid.ca/site/flacklife-the-translucid-blog/ bobledrew

        I don't remember anyone by that name. Are you sure you're remembering correctly? As far as I know, there is no Helena Guergis, and Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

  • tdotlib

    Keep at it Paul. I, for one, appreciate the tenacity you are exhibiting on this story.

    • SunshineCoaster

      I agree completely. In addition, I hope Paul puts the same effort towards coverage of the Auditor General's report on Canada's Economic Action Plan, in particular the free advertising the Conservative Party of Canada received from this government spending.

  • http://donaldstreet.wordpress.com Mike

    Please continue your work on this file.

  • Emily

    Dateline: 2015

    Paul Wells, once well known in Canada before his mysterious disappearance was discovered this morning by an Antarctic exploration team. He was struggling to survive in a snow hut filled with penguins….

  • Wantanswers

    I won't let it die either, as a lowly reader, no matter how much they think time will wash it away.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ottawa_Centrist Ottawa_Centrist

    Involving Deloitte will be the board majorities downfall. Anything less than concrete evidence (of which there is still none) supporting their claims against Beauregard will illustrate an expensive, out-of-control witch hunt where once a democracy and rights promotion agency existed.

  • ZestyMordant

    Thanks for keeping on these guys Paul. I'm looking forward to seeing what's in this report that's taking so long.

    I sure hope they send it to a different translator than the one used for the gun registry report….

    • KOL

      … or the Grewal tapes.

  • Style

    Call their bluffs – they're all about transparency but worried about costs? Great – offer to have Macleans pay for and host the special board meeting. We'd all love to tune in to the webcast. We could hear firsthand any arguments for not releasing the forensic audit.

  • Standing By

    This makes me wish we had a US-style civil litigation system where people could mount a civil suit for wrongful death.

    This apparent "shocking and profligate behaviour" deserves nothing less.

  • PolJunkie

    "All I can say, at the risk of repeating, is that I will not ever let this story go until the R&D board coughs up the financial transparency they promised, so many months and so much taxpayer money ago."

    Glad to hear it because it is pretty clear to me that the Board is waiting you out, banking on you to eventually move on since everyone else has.

    Looking forward to you post on the week of October 25th.

    • Thwim

      I don't think so. I expect that the "legal representation" will suggest to them that they not release large chunks..

      ..as it may incriminate them.

      That said.. my biggest problem with this series of reporting is the titles Paul uses. Now I've got that damned song stuck in my head.

      • PolJunkie

        "..as it may incriminate them."

        Incriminate? Technically speaking, there is no crime here. Just unconscionable behavior on the part of the Board. And the lawyers cannot stand in the way of the House Committee if it demands access to the docs.

        Or can they?

        • tedbetts

          Well, until very recently, Parliament was supreme and it set the laws of the land. Over the past year, we have come to the painful realization, as confirmed explicity by the PM last week, that Harper "makes the rules" whether it comes to what Parliament can see, who it can call for witnesses, what documents the public is permitted access to, and even who we get to vote for (apparently we don't get to vote for the Liberals, NDP or Bloc next time, but only the "coalition"), etc..

          • Be_rad

            Back when prorogation was the story, I had an exchange with Jack Mitchell on this. Our Parliament was never "supreme" in the technical sense of the term. Its laws have always been subject to being overturned; first by Westminster and then by the Supreme Court of Canada. In addition, the Charter further limts our Parliament's ability to legislate, which is also enforced by the SCC.

            Holding the Executive to account is a function of Responsible Government – the House of Commons is the judge of the Executive and can take its powers away when it loses confidence in it.

            Just a quibble, since I agree with the gist of what you are saying, just not the term.

            To parody Cats:

            "Wheelies!"

    • Halo_Override

      I picked out that same line to copy-paste, in order to state that it was easily the happiest single sentence I've read in days.

    • tedbetts

      "since everyone else has"

      Big Correction: as should be apparent here, of those who followed this from the first, I would say most are still following and indeed probably more than originally.

      Keep it up Paul. The microcosm of this government.

  • nameless lurker

    "All I can say, at the risk of repeating, is that I will not ever let this story go until the R&D board coughs up the financial transparency they promised, so many months and so much taxpayer money ago."

    Thanks. This is worth pursuing to the bitter end.

  • Blacktop

    In the meantimw, our rights? Are they safe:<)

  • http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

    Keep at it, Paul. At least until you've uncovered the Conservative Minister that's stalling the release of the report.

    • Peter

      Interesting point about that Minister, whoever he or she is. Why would they try to wait Wells out?

      The stalling seems to imply that the government's planning an election just around the corner. If another trip to the polls was a year off, they'd have it released and deal with it now with plenty of time to spin it their way, and it would be forgotten by 2011.

      • tedbetts

        You don't understand this government then. The first request for the detainee documents came in 2007. It is now 2010.

  • http://thebrownretort.blogspot.com Robert Viera

    Keep at it, Paul! Don't push too hard though. You wouldn't want to give one of them a heart attack.

    • DBM

      I laughed, so I guess I'm going to hell with you.

  • danby

    Rights and democracy?

    Left behind by autocracy

  • Stewart_Smith

    Stephen Harper said he would never appoint an unelected senator.
    Stephen Harper has appointed lots of unelected senators.

    Stephen Harper said Canada should have fixed election dates to keep PM's from using the timing of elections for partisan advantage.
    Stephen Harper then called an election for partisan advantage.

    Stephen Harper said we would not run a deficit.
    Stephen Harper then ran a massive deficit.

    Stephen Harper said he would not lock up irritating journalists as political prisoners.
    Paul, ever wonder about those new prisons?

    • It's Crazy

      Stephen Harper knows on which side his bread is buttered. He loves his job too much.

  • Blue

    I may be off -subject, I know, but I`m trying to figure out what the purpose Of MacLeans.ca is.

    Is it really the internet vehicle of Macleans—Canada`s National News Magazine or is it just a place where Emily and Holly can hang out and complain about everything Harper-like ? Maybe it`s a place where Stewart and Olaf can display their brilliant and witty minds—-if that`s the case, then we could use more like them.
    But if it`s a place for News, why are we talking about some little known hang-out for semi-retired politico hangers-on where some hokery=pokery may or may not have happened ?
    Or, why is Aaron Wherry posting the umpteenth article about a minor change to a statistical questionare ?

    The past 4 days most of the national newspapers in the country were posting numerous articles about the arrest of four young Muslim men who are suspected of being involved in terroism activities that would involve the destruction of buildings and the people inside them in Ottawa.
    That`s news guys ! The only reference to this news was Andrew Potter wondering whether the RCMP may have been racist in the naming of the Operation.

    • Blue

      …………Maybe you`re waiting for Steyn to return. Maybe there is no way to Harper-bash with this story, but it`s what people are talking about and it is News so even if it doesn`t fit the Agenda, it still deserves one serious posting.

    • brooster

      Your post is known in political parlance as "changing the channel" (with apologies to Wherry for an expression that is not only an analogy, but possibly an anachronism…do people still "change channels")?

    • Sean

      Good lord, man. It's the dog days of summer. Cut them some slack.

      Also, the blogging floor of this building has never promised to be a comprehensive news portal.

      Finally, this is a pretty silly post to file your b*tching under. In the future, pick one that doesn't involve original journalism to complain about their lack of news content.

      • Be_rad

        Brooster and Sean said everything I wanted to say in reply. Deflect, obscure, muddify (thanks Fotheringham!).

      • Blue

        I certainly did not intentionaly pick Paul Wells post to file my b*itch under. I think he`s the best of the bunch here. His post just happened to be on the top when I ranted.

        But if this is a place to bounce intelligent thoughts back and forth, and you seem to be one of the smart ones here, I would like to know what you think makes young Muslim men like these ( health workers, doctors, etc.) get involved in a scheme like this alleged one where the only goal is the destruction of people and buildings.

        Maybe we are not supposed to talk about this. Maybe it`s too sensitive a subject in our multicultural society. I just hope we don`t regret our silence sometime in the future.

        • Sean

          The website has swallowed my response, probably thinking it was spam (or perhaps heeding my advice below and deciding to retire me). Anyway, it contained the links to four or five 'need-to-know' articles in recent days on the very story that concerns you. Let's keep this thread about Rights and Democracy, but have a go at your question on one of those posts.

        • Halo_Override

          A desire to find a personal meaning for their lives in a seemingly arbitrary world. Incremental addiction to the emotional heat and thrill of vengeance, danger, and extreme actions that break near-universal taboos. Feelings of powerlessness to change things through orderly, gradual, non-violent methods. A sense of community combined with the excitement of a secret society.

          I don't see multiculturalism as having anything to do with it. That's my view.

        • George

          What made Orwell travel to Spain fight on the losing side of a muddled war?

    • John W.

      I think it has to do with not following the PMO led herd in Ottawa all the time. Then there's the crazy idea of having an independent free thought once in a while and being allowed to pursue it. Not much of that over in Kory's shop I suspect.

    • YYZ

      A coupe of thoughts:

      First, in general, there's no reason that Paul can't write about this and for others in the magazine to write about the terrorism arrests. You may be right about the lack of coverage overall, but that's something to take up with the news editor. However, it doesn't mean this story doesn't warrant some coverage.

      To your first thought — the purpose of MacLeans.ca — and the standards around it — it's always tricky for journalist blogging– my personal view is that they should not be held to the same standard with respect to style and depth of reporting as it relates to opinion, but should be held to the same standard with respect to authenticity of facts.

      In short: I do not come here for news. I come here for debate — which I find stimulating — and to learn. News is a bonus. I also think this site is primarily for political junkies. cont'd.

      • YYZ

        When everything's working well, we can have intelligent discussions about the validity of the gun registry, or the long form census, or how question period should be structured. Ususually one does have to deal with slogging through some crap to get to really good debates, but I personally have learned things and changed my opinons on them based on participating in these discussions.

        Finally, I do think there is something to snippits like Paul's post here, or lots of Aaron's brief posts — they often wouldn't warrant a full story in a magazine, but add information and insight in a useful medium.

        • McC_

          "slogging through some crap to get to really good debates"
          don't forget the jokes; the wry humour of the Stewart Smiths and Olafs around here keeps me scrolling down to the comments!

          • YYZ

            Indeed!

    • SunshineCoaster

      Have you noticed in the past that when "most of the national newspapers in the country" were writing about something, Paul Wells didn't adhere to the herd mentality? I think that is why most people follow Wells' articles so frequently. I think it is also worth noting that some other national newspapers seem to be religiously avoiding the Rights & Democracy issue; like perhaps Demetri Soudas told them to.

      We need Paul Wells to keep on writing the opinion pieces he fancies, no matter what Soudas or anyone else says. And we don't need ALL the media in Canada to write about ALL the same things ALL the time.

    • tedbetts

      Blue, with respect, you clearly don't get it.

      First, it's a blog site, not a daily news site.

      Second, it's a blog adjunct to a magazine which by its very nature takes a step back and observes both larger trends and stuff not covered by the daily news.

      Third, the story just broke on the terrorists. If I remember correctly when the Toronto 18 were charged, it came out on the blog site but not immediately.

      Fourth, you are mixing up your frustrations between the blog post and the commenters. One of the really great things about this as a blog site is how free the discussion is among commenters with little interference. There are relatively few commenters like you or Cats or others who just rant and troll. Not only that but despite being so very open, the commentary is often very excellent and I've learned a hell of a lot of additional info on different topics (especially Parliamentary procedure).

      • Crit_Reasoning

        Blue, with respect, you clearly don't get it. (…) There are relatively few commenters like you or Cats or others who just rant and troll.

        I'm confused. Why did you include "with respect" at the beginning of your response to Blue if you're going to accuse him of "just ranting and trolling"?

        • Olaf

          "With respect" is one of those awesome phrases that allow you to say pretty much anything you want without consequences. It's like "no offence" or "As the Prime Minister of Canada, I'd like to ensure the Canadian people that…"

          • Be_rad

            Like coating yourself in Teflon

          • Holly Stick

            Or "the honourable member over there".

          • Crit_Reasoning

            It's too bad, because Ted's otherwise good response to Blue was spoiled by the gratuitous insult.

            Also, the next time Ted starts off by saying: "With respect, CR", I am soooo not going to believe him! ;-)

          • tedbetts

            The with respect was meant to qualify the "you don't get it" which was not meant to be insulting so much as stating a view that he doesn't really get what this online forum has developed into/always been.

            As for "gratuitous insult"… hardly so when I am merely saying about his comment what he himself says about his comment.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            As for "gratuitous insult"… hardly so when I am merely saying about his comment what he himself says about his comment.

            You said he was a commenter who "just rants and trolls". You weren't just referring to that one comment; you were referring to all of his comments. And you dragged out the "T-word", which is rarely used in a non-insulting context.

            Anyway, I thought the personal snarking detracted from an otherwise good comment.

          • tedbetts

            Point taken.

            People like Blue and Cats and a few others though really do fit the definition of troll with their comments: they never add anything to the discussion but a gratuitous fly-by insult or attack. So maybe I was subconsciously being sarcastic when I wrote "with respect" or maybe I should have written "with all due respect" (as in, with all the respect that is due to you and your comments)! ;-)

          • Crit_Reasoning

            and a few others though really do fit the definition of troll with their comments

            Ted, out of curiosity, can you name any anti-Harper "trolls" who post here?

            A general observation: Having followed way too many political discussions on the Internet, I've noticed that the "T-word" often gets used selectively, according to one's political leanings.

            I'm not suggesting that you're doing this, but I'm still curious who you'd identify as a "lefty" troll (if anyone).

          • tedbetts

            I don't know left from right, CR. That's part of the point with these two commenters: clearly anti-liberal/anti-Liberal but they don't ever put forward a view or substantive commentary so I don't really know what they believe in. Case in point, a commenter – forgetting the ID name now – clearly hated the Liberals and attacked anyone who compared Iggy favourably to Harper and so I automatically assumed Conservative; still don't know what they are but they clearly think as bad as the Liberals are that the Conservatives are worse (mark him down as like most Canadian perhaps?). Anyway, on that scale, I think I'd agree with a couple of names put up above – they seem to really not like Harper, and that seems to be the only thing they can comment on, though who they actually support or what they believe (left-right) I don't know.

            Clear as mud?

          • Lord Kitchener's Own

            Ted, out of curiosity, can you name any anti-Harper "trolls" who post here?

            Oh, oh… pick me, pick me!!! I think I can handle that one!

            Have you met Emily?

          • MostlyCivil

            Indeed. There's nothing like a good Emily/Bergkamp fight.

            I mean that literally. There's nothing LIKE a good Emily/Bergkamp fight.

            Sorry, Emily. You're on my "thread skip" list like wilson and Cats.

          • Thwim

            I believe Emily actually believes what she's saying to be true. That, in my mind, disqualifies her for troll.

            Unfortunately, it does open her up for much worse.

            I dunno.. maybe I'm too internet old-school. I admire a well-crafted troll. Hell, I used to be a regular Kuro5hin poster. My problem around here is that the trolls are simply pathetic.

          • tedbetts

            Well, it does have it's practical uses, especially online when you can't get the "tone" as well and when you really are disinclined to use silly emoticons. ;-)

          • http://dredtory.blogspot.com/ Sir_Francis

            …one of those awesome phrases that allow you to say pretty much anything you want without consequences.

            "As a conservative…" is another. It's quite brilliant, really: it allows the user to receive from an undemanding audience the right to speak on behalf of conservative principles without having demonstrated that he actually holds any conservative principles. These days, it's a phrase that should really be reserved for punch lines, or, at most, dirty limericks.

            Of course, "I'm not racist, but…" as always been a huge favourite of mine. Sadly, it's quickly becoming obsolete, now that prognathous bigots don't feel quite as urgent a need to apologise for being existential verrucas upon the body politic as they did a decade ago.

          • Olaf

            You lost me at "prognathous". Then again at "verrucas". Otherwise, true. Plus, usually bigots nowadays have the minimal foresight required to maintain a roster of token acquaintences they can point to in order to deflect such charges. For example, my friend Manuelo here. Say hola, Manuelo!

            As a great philosopher once said: "How can I hate women? Me mum's one".

        • Blue

          CR—tedbetts is still p!ssed at me because I thought he was just being repetetive in many of his posts in his loyal Party effort to make the CPC look bad.
          And if there is a problem here it is that many of us tune out because many of those who constantly give the thumbs down to people like myself, no matter what I write, are constantly fearmongering that the cons are trying to destroy the country.
          Now this is a country that most of the world regard as a left-of center benevelent democracy. That`s why I get impatient with many of the commenters here so I`ve come up with my own means of censorship. I just don`t read the posts from the Emilys. But, when I`m here, I always read yours and Jenn, and myl and Sean ( what the hell happened to him ). Unfortunately for ted, I`ve emilyed him.

          • tedbetts

            I guess I asked you one too many times to show where I've thought Harper is "trying to destroy the country", eh, Blue? When evidence-based policy is not your thing, why should we expect evidence-based accusations, eh, Blue?

          • Be_rad

            If you are disappointed with the perceived intransigence of other posters, I don't find it a particularly positive tactic to employ in reverse the very atittude and language of those who disappoint you. "With respect."

          • Jenn_

            Thanks for including me, Blue!

          • Olaf

            I must correct your inappropriate use of the term "emilyed". While subject to some controversy among linguists and scholars of the English language, the term is generally used to signify a situation where you attempt to address someone in good faith and provide sound and reasoned objections to their statement, only to be subjected to the most contradictory, illogical, unsupportable and yet entirely arrogant and self-assured stream of one sentence responses, which tends to display only a tenuous grasp of reality or a willful blindness to it.

            Fortunately, this unfortunate series of events can only occur once to each individual, after which they realize it would be more fruitful to converse with a cardboard box.

          • Blue

            Once again you are correct sir and I apologize for my misuse of your inventive term.
            Since I have never attempted to address said someone in the manner you have described I have never experienced the pain you must still feel.

            Therefore I inadvertently used the term in my own way: " emilyed "—to ignore the comment, to assume it will be like their previous 100 comments, To just not read the thing.

          • Olaf

            Sorry, I'm a stickler for terminological accuracy. And if you've managed to learn from others mistakes, you are better than I. Normally, even if people have witnessed the abominable train wrecks such discussions become, they think "well, it can't possibly happen to me, I'll be polite and reasonable and engage this individual in a meaningful way". And it invariably does. It does happen to them. It's most hilarious when it happens to people who self-identify themselves on the left.

          • http://onelinecritic.wordpress.com/ DirtyOldTown

            I try not to get involved in these pile-ons, but It makes me really uncomfortable to see individual posters being singled out for ridicule like this. It's not classy, and it's not necessary either. If someone says something you disagree with or dislike in a thread, then that thread is probably the best place to express it. Bringing up a grudge against another poster into a whole new thread so that others can join in your ridicule of that person seems…well, pretty small and mean.

          • brooster

            Amen

        • tedbetts

          How is it an insult to Blue when he describes his own postings as "rants". As in "I certainly did not intentionaly pick Paul Wells post to file my b*itch under. I think he`s the best of the bunch here. His post just happened to be on the top when I ranted."

  • wellwell

    "… they have to have the whole terrible truth about just how bad [autocratic government] can be before [the people] come to their senses. Let all of the poisons that lurk in the mud, hatch out.”
    (from "Claudius, the God" by Robert Graves)

    Keep going, Paul – this is important.

  • Linda Whitman

    Thank you Paul. I was just thinking today about Rights and Democracy and wondering what was happening with the audit. I'm glad to see that you still care as do so many other Canadians. I'm still hoping that many other jounalists have finally seen what this government is doing to the country and are willing to dig for access to information, continually question responses from the government and get to the truth and inform the Canadian public. It seems in the past that the media gave the Conservatives a free ride and look where that landed the country. Isn't it time that Canadians are provided with correct information to try to make an informed, truthful decision about actions that the government is intending on making to change what Canada has stood for. Keep up the great work.

    Linda

  • NoNameCS

    Thank you, Paul Wells, for your ongoing attention to this story.

    This government — like most other governments, really — is counting on our short attention span to avoid accountability. And when enough time has passed, they start arguing that everyone has moved on, that there are more important things, that it's not what "ordinary people" are talking about.

    The thing is, though, that THIS government campaigned on accountability. They made a public spectacle of their commitment to accountability with a huge piece of legislation that was more about optics than substance. So they largely deserve to be hoisted up on their own petard every time they behave like hypocrites.

    • bonneau

      very well summarized, in my opinion

  • Sean

    Suggestions to improve the comment boards at Maclean's:

    1. Daily limit to number of comments per participant. If for no other reason than to force us outside for fresh air once in a while.

    2. Intense Debate registrants only – I think it balances desires for anonymity with keeping folks a bit accountable.

    3. Force individuals to retire after 100 points. Surely to goodness one has said enough, by that point. (Wait a minute! That'd be me…)

    • Crit_Reasoning

      Interesting suggestions. Here's my 2¢:

      1. I generally agree with this but I fear it would get in the way of some really good lengthy discussions.

      2. I try to encourage ID registration, but restricting comments to those who have registered for ID would seriously discourage comments from new and occasional commenters.

      3. Over my dead body!

    • Halo_Override

      3a. Commentors who reach 100 posts will float up toward the ceiling and explode, which will be considered a great honor and the natural culmination of their life as citizens.

      • Sean

        Boom.

        • Phil

          Sean, what have you done…..

        • Crit_Reasoning

          Sean, did you just delete your account? Man, that's hard core.

          • Phil

            He did seem a bit "off" for the last little while…..and I can't see him taking the bergkamp reincarnation route…….so we might have lost him for good. :-(

          • Crit_Reasoning

            He didn't even say goodbye!

          • SeanStok

            I had to do that quick before I changed my mind. I also wanted to find a way to sign off without going too long or sappy. I've always felt a bit ambiguous about hanging out here so much, and at the end of the day I think I need to focus more on other things, and spend less time glued to a screen.

            There's a lot of folks here I'm fiercely respectful and fond of. Some I think of as friends. I dare not form a list, because I know I'd leave some out. I'm going to hope those people know who they are. Anybody who wants to keep up a bit, please drop me a line at stoktunes[at]yahoo[dot]ca or I've got a twitter thingy now too: @stoktunes.

            Thanks for the conversations and debates, everyone. Thanks to the bloggers for tolerating me in their house.

            I'll probably still drop in on Feschuk's board from time to time, but only for the important business of being silly .

            Take care all,
            Sean.

          • http://onelinecritic.wordpress.com/ DirtyOldTown

            I didn't know you as well as some others here, but I always enjoyed your insightful, level-headed comments. You will be missed. Good luck out there IRL.

          • Iccyh

            Dammit :/

          • Halo_Override

            In that case, it was a pleasure being your unwitting straight man / diving board. :)

          • Crit_Reasoning

            So long, Sean, and thanks for all the fish!

        • Dot

          why I keep at it. The answer is simple. Rémy Beauregard died while he was, by every account, well on the path to cleaning up R&D’s administration and making it an effective global advocate for the human rights all Canadians cherish.

          It has been rather apparent to me, from the start, that you have taken this personally.

          Why don't you divulge your sources at R&D so that we can judge for ourselves whether you have been objective, or have been manipulated by others with an agenda/personal stake?

          What level of confidence , if any, did you offer in order to have direct access to internal documents, Board proceedings? Did any breach board/R&D confidence as a result?

          Will you objectively accept the D&T audit once it comes out, or will you selectively look for evidence for some of your positions, previously written, as some sort of justification for your choicer words/allegations?

          • wellwell

            To achieve true balance, Dot, why not allow R&D board members to vet Paul's stories and to spike any articles that make them uncomfortable prior to publication?

            After all, we can't trust Paul's experience and judgement, and he never gives us any sound evidentiary basis for his view of the affair, does he? While we're at it, let's attack the tradition of journalistic privilege in our attempts to defend the indefensible. The survival of a minority prime minister is worth this kind of collateral damage.

          • Dot

            Well, since I can't recall your moniker from before, I'll assume you haven't been following all of his comments etc from the beginning. So, you lack context.

          • Holly Stick

            That's a silly assumption. Not everyone feels the need to add their own comments all the time. Why are you so obsessed with getting Wells to shut up about R&D? Do you have a personal reason?

          • Dot

            Not shut up – be objective. He fails on this file, in my books.

            Many, many months ago, when Wells said he was retiring from the R&D file (which obviously he has not done) I suggested in the comments that the story was sensationalized in the media largely because of the death of one of the main charcters. I got lots of flack and negative scores – but Wells just confirmed his motives here – QED.

          • Inkless

            Wrong again. I said I would "very substantially scale back" my coverage.
            http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/06/rights-and-dem…

            I had written 24 posts on R&D in the six weeks before I wrote that. I have written 10 in the six months since. You're not getting better at this.

          • A_logician

            Replying to dotty posters is a mug's game, but we appreciate you trying.

            Keep up the good work.

          • Dot

            How many offensive R&D twitter comments in that six months trying to get other PPG members to pile on?

          • Inkless

            Wow.

          • Dot

            That many? Yeah, I quit counting as well some time ago.

          • Holly Stick

            What do you consider offensive? Any exact quotes? And do you follow everything Wells writes on Twitter?

          • Dot

            Oh, I can't remember exactl;y – just some gratuitous insults directed at board members – I used to follow on the public board, but then realized it's main use by the PPG was to seek concensus/promote their own causes. A technical group think facilitator. I quit following.

          • Holly Stick

            Watch out they don't hack into your computer, Paul, and steal some emails they can distort into "Wellsgate".

          • Dot

            Holly – you're so easy to predict. Whatever is anti-Harper, you just adopt. At least you're consistent, though. As I have been on this file, though in a different way.

          • Holly Stick

            You know, Dot, what you said above: "…I suggested in the comments that the story was sensationalized in the media largely because of the death of one of the main charcters…" really reminded me of Michael Palin's character in Brazil. He accidently kills a man while torturing him because he has the wrong information and did not know the man had heart problems. He is extremely annoyed at the inconvenience and embarrassment of it all, but the actual person who died means nothing to him.

          • Jenn_

            Actually, Dot, Paul Wells did explain himself in one of the other postings on this subject. You see, the Rights and Democracy Board can put op-ed pieces in the National Post, go on television, etc. to get their side of the story out. But they've issued an edict to the staff that THEY'RE not allowed to talk to the press–so Paul's doing it.

            While I have no doubt Paul does take this issue as a personal mission (I personally suspect this is the incident that lost the Conservatives his vote) he is also the only journalist that I can see (possible exception Kady) that continues to spend any time on this file. So really, one side has the Rights and Democracy Board and virtually all journalists, the other side has Paul Wells.

            And you have a problem?

          • lgarvin

            Wells has made it plain that he his offended by this whole debacle – and that is to his credit, IMO. His indignation has not – to my knowledge – had any ill effect on his accuracy.

            Journalists should strive to be objective but that does not mean that they must be objectively stupid. If the people at R&D are acting contemptuously then contempt is not only warranted, it's required.

          • Be_rad

            Can a journalist/columnist not react in a human way when, in their opinion, a story contains offensive behaviour? PW in this post summarizes his visceral reaction quite openly and succinctly.

            The string of articles on this topic is conveniently available to you by clicking on the tag. Demonstrate where his articles deserve that kind of forensic scrutiny, before he has to defend himself to you.

            My guess is those who were offended by the behaviour and actions of those he has identified were more than happy to supply them without need of favour.

            Are you asking a reporter to accept all things that comes their way without applying critical thinking?

            Dot, in the face of the very clear observations PW has made and your obvious antagonism towards them, why don't you do a more substantive critique of where you believe he has distorted/misunderstood/misrepresented/misinterpreted in his lengthy examination of the issue?

          • Dot

            I'm at a library right now, travelling through, and only have a few minutes left – so don't have the time to write a complete list as you request – but go through the comments there – I've been pretty explicit of my criticisms – where I thought he was biased and I have also acknowledged his expertise in other areas, though they may be embedded in a few Wherry pieces.

          • Be_rad

            I'm sorry, you're selling, I'm the buyer. Nothing in what I have read over the last several months that PW has written has struck the chords you are trying to say are there. I'm not inclined to do the work to find your arguments and collate them so I can distill the ones that might make your point. I'm lazy that way.

          • Stewart_Smith

            Dot, I have to give you credit. This is the most nuanced "lets all move along", "no story here" attempt I have seen on this site. Equating Paul's passion for ferreting out the details with bias is not completely absurd and raises lots of interesting debating points. However, you are also clearly passionate about this story and in a non-trivial nonpartisan way.

            No doubt you want to remain anonymous, but can you provide us with some context for why this is important to you?

          • Dot

            Stewie, are you or have you ever been a member of a professional organization with standards, or become say a PEng where you are required to pass an ethics exam and practice accordingly?

            Have you ever been schooled in corporate governance, org behaviour, set up an internal audit dept, prepared audits after carefully hearing both sides of an argument objectively, written reports after allowing all parties an opportunity to respond and give their side of the story, prepared recommendations – presented and defended them at the Board level?

            No? Well, that should perhaps partly answer your questions. I doubt Mr Wells has either.

            Sending someone an email 4 hrs or whatever before publishing deadline and expecting them to drop their other work and respond promptly, and then criticise them for not doing so is so far off my professional radar, as are many other items on this file.

          • Holly Stick

            Does that carefully listening to all sides of a story include checking to see if anyone is actually lying? Or have had time to carefully prepare their own spin?

            No doubt reporters get on some people's nerves by popping up and wanting answers right away, but that's the nature of their job. I dare say it's useful to catch people off guard sometimes.

          • Dot

            In audit (long time ago) if you are making findings they must be fact based, and in the audits that I did, you would make a finding, then give responsible management the opportunity to respond – and their responses would be published right under the audit findings.

            If you didn't have the facts to back up your argument, you would carefully word the report with "it appears", "this suggests" "there appears to be an inconsistency" etc.

          • Stewart_Smith

            To answer your questions, yes, yes, yes, no, no, no. I have served on several boards but none of them have ever overseen a meltdown such as happened at R&D. I also doubt Mr. Wells has done auditing work.

            I have also dealt with the media on several occasions, usually under banal conditions but not always. Frankly, dealing with them effectively (which is not just giving them what they want ) is a responsibility that comes with the territory if you are working in an area of interest to the public, especially if you are using public funds. As a result, there should be people within an organization such as Rights & Democracy that can deal with the press on short notice.

            I am taking from this that you object to the way that Wells has gone after this subject and presumably stayed with it after the traditional news cycle is over. Fair enough, although frankly that is exactly the origin of the accolades as well. I guess I was fishing for whether you had unique insights about R&D specifically.

          • Dot

            Well, I don't know if your media communications efforts were undertaken at Bruce Nuclear (didn't you once say you worked there?) but I dare say a nuke facility would be well prepared in dealing with media than a hole in the wall tiny gov't funded institution – in open revolt including their communications personnel.

            So, remember what happened when they did actually bring in a communications consultant? The guy came onboard here and asked Wells in one comment section what the hell he was doing (relax pw, I am paraphrasing) So I looked on twitter – what was all the fuss? pw was trash talking about him, making innuendos about seeing him in Ottawa earlier. And for quite some time later, snide remarks about Prime Communications, or whatever it is called (pw- note the use of the word whatever)

            Did the board, under constant assault by the PPG make a few bad moves? Perhaps. And that's why they'll pay until Wells is finished with them.

          • Holly Stick

            I assume you are referring to Peter Stockland, once a columnist in my local paper. Here's the post, which has much illumination in the comments.
            http://www2.macleans.ca/tag/peter-stockland/

          • Inkless

            It was seven hours before deadline, not four. Gauthier promised an answer before reneging. I posted the entire correspondence, both sides of it.

            You keep demanding facts and then misstating the facts. It's weak.

          • Holly Stick

            What does the auditor say to this side of the story, Dot?

          • Dot

            4 hrs or whatever

            seven hours before deadline, not four

            immaterial

          • Holly Stick

            So much for fact-based findings.

          • Dot

            Holly, come down off your anti-Harper horse would you?

            Here's your vocabulary lesson of the day:

            im·ma·te·ri·al (m-tîr-l)
            adj.
            1. Of no importance or relevance; inconsequential or irrelevant.
            2. Having no material body or form.

            ——————————————————————————–

            Now, what would be material here is an acknowledgement by Wells that Directors are part time positions, and that most have other things to do – like teach classes and/or prepare for them, run organizations, and have lives outside of being on the beck and call of Mr Wells and his bully pulpit (although he appears to think otherwise).

          • Holly Stick

            Shuffle those goal posts! Something else material would be that bullies who face staunch opposition tend to whine that they are being bullied.

            Why would you say Wells has a bully pulpit? He doesn't work for Fox News North.

          • Holly Stick

            Also, throughout this entire thread, I have not mentioned the name "Harper" once; so why are you accusing me of being anti-Harper? Could it be that you are a Harper employee?

          • Dot

            OK, I stand to be corrected. Direct me to a position on this blogsite that is anti-Harper where you have taken an opposite position. I'll check back tomorrow.

            And no, not involved with Harper or political parties in any way whatsoever.

          • Holly Stick

            But other threads are immaterial to this discussion.

          • Dot
          • Dot

            Oh, just when I read twitters of Wells where he threatens to write another mag column about R&D if they don't respond to him in a set period of time, reiterates that when he says he will do it in two weeks and indicates he means it, and then follows through with yet another crtitical R&D column, he qualifies in all senses of the term (proper and improper def

          • Holly Stick

            You don't actually know what a bully pulpit is, do you? Check out wiki, which calls it "…a public office or other position of authority…"; you know like Harper has and like he wants Fox News North to have. Not like what Wells has.

            You rightwingers are always whining about being criticized. You don't like it, then behave better. Strive to earn respect. Be what you would seem to be.

          • Dot

            Dictionary: bully pulpit
            n.
            An advantageous position, as for making one's views known or rallying support: "The presidency had been transformed from a bully pulpit on Pennsylvania Avenue to a stage the size of the world" (Hugh Sidey).

            http://www.answers.com/topic/bully-pulpit

            Nice to see Holly's true colours by calling me a "rightwinger." Rather desperate.

            Holly (n)

            A rather prickly bush, easily pruned.

            h/t Dot's* web dictionary -

            *more authoritative than wiki

          • Holly Stick

            With your example fitting my definition "…a public office or other position of authority…"

            Who exactly is forced to read Maclean's, or anything by Wells? Employees of Harper probably are, since they have to know which messengers to attack.

          • Dot

            Seems to me it was you that attacked my comment string. "Come into the parlour, said the spider to the fly."

            Anyway, this is getting boring. Adios Madonna. :)

          • Inkless

            It would be hard for me to take this personally. I never met Rémy Beauregard and did not know anyone associated with Rights and Democracy, except I suppose Ed Broadbent and Joe Clark, when my coverage began.

            My source today was Gérard Latulippe. I believe the board majority at Rights and Democracy has no dispute in fact with anything I have gleaned before from other sources. Board member David Matas has in fact used the accuracy of my reporting as a rebuke to other critics:
            http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/06/rights-and-dem…

            As for whether I will "objectively accept" the audit once it comes out, I am surprised. Of course I will post it here in its entirety, every page, as I have posted or linked to every new development in this debate. Then I will offer my interpretation. Others may offer theirs. You, for instance.

            That is, I will post every page the R&D board dares release. For the rest, if there is more, I will seek to obtain it by every means I can. I'm like that.

          • Dot

            Have you ever met the former Executive Director of Rights and Democracy – the one that was there from the start – and was the secretary to the Board – now fired for insubordination?

          • Inkless

            I can't find anyone who held the title of Executive Director. Are we talking about Marie-France Cloutier? This would go so much better if the only name you left out of these discussions was your own.

            Oh wait — no it wouldn't. I don't reveal the names of sources who give me useful and accurate information in exchange for anonymity. Certainly not to anonymous interrogators.

          • Dot

            The Jane Taber school of journalism – "accurate information" unattributed.

            Here – want to do some investigative journalism – next time you're at homecoming? Cross reference graduates engineering '82 , MBA 89. I would tell you where the schools were located relative to the journalism school, but I doubt that would help.

          • Inkless

            I'll get right on that, the next time I get together with my classmates from journalism school.

          • Dot

            Or speaking of interrogations, something yiou can do right at your desk. Go to the BCUC hearing archives, enter "Canada slips in world rankings" c 1994 , and you'll find a lone intervenor questioning the senior management of BC Hydro on productivity, efficiency – it still stands up rather well, and years and years before others jumped on the bandwagon. An area they should perhaps return to and stay focused on.

          • Dot
        • http://onelinecritic.wordpress.com/ DirtyOldTown

          OMG – the internet ate Sean!!!

        • McC_

          *whispers* "…and like that … <whoosh> … he's gone!"

        • Halo_Override

          Aw, jeez. Come back — I promise to keep my Logan's Run references to myself!

          ;_;

  • McC_

    well played…

  • tedbetts

    Keep it up Paul.

    Seeing the microcosm of this government under a microscope is vital journalism.

  • Halo_Override

    Fly like an eagle, Paul. Let your spirit carry you.

  • peter

    I have no idea what the end game of the Board at R &D is, however, as Mr Wells keeps relentlessly reminding us, "where there's this much smoke there's gotta be a fire starter somewhere". Who (or what) is the arsonist? I'm guessing this story is not making his bosses happy, or some of his colleagues. I suspect someone will hang politically for this, I just don't have much faith it will be the party responsible for it. That said I think Mr. Wells (whom, it seems, I disagree with about many things political) should be rightly respected for at least trying to get to the bottom of this fetid pile.

    • Johnny Flag

      Funny you should mention an arsonist at R&D, Peter. Board chair Aurel Braun compared himself to a fireman putting out an arsonist's flames at R&D in one of his bizarre letters to the editor on the issue, this one in the Globe and Mail on April 17…

      It must be noted that the late Rémy Beauregard, on Jan. 7, 2010, actually voted with the board majority and against those senior staff who favoured giving financial assistance to terrorist-linked organizations. It is sad when the firemen are confused with the arsonists, and sadder still when the firemen are attacked for using the necessary amount of water to put out the flames.

      Aurel Braun, chair, board of directors, Rights and Democracy

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