Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

'That's why I will be standing with Jack Layton'

by Aaron Wherry on Tuesday, September 7, 2010 10:16am - 0 Comments

NDP MP Glenn Thibeault, one of the dozen New Democrats who voted in favour of Bill C-391, seems to have had a change of heart. From the official release.

Sudbury MP Glenn Thibeault today announced his support for Jack Layton’s plan to find a compromise on the gun registry that brings rural and urban communities together.

“I went to Ottawa to work to make our community safer and stronger—not to drive it apart,” said Thibeault. “That’s why I will be standing with Jack Layton, not Stephen Harper and Garry Breitkreuz, on the long gun registry. We need to find a solution that brings rural and urban Canadians together and so far Jack Layton is the only one showing the leadership to do just that.”

… Thibeault had previously voted to send Bill C-391 to committee for a proper study and to learn more about the issue. Since then, countless conversations with experts and local constituents have convinced him that the Conservative position would be a step back for public safety, and that a new way forward was needed.

Tags: C-391, Glenn Thibeault, gun control, gun registry, Jack Layton, long gun registry, NDP

More by Aaron Wherry

http://stumblingabordeaux.blogspot.com Pato31

The reasoned approach prevails!
Mike T.

What does that guy's horse have to say about this?

LynnTO

it would be so easy to quote Mr. Ed on this one, but neigh, I shall not.

danby

That pun was simply awfoal

Crit_Reasoning

Quit horsing around and get back to work. Best to rein in the puns before you stirrup some trouble.

Kevin

Yes, they're leading us down the bridle path.
gottabesaid

…groans… forget the gun registry. We need a pun registry to protect us.
MostlyCivil

It would behoove me to stop reading this thread…

AJR79

Probably something about rural NDP MPs being "all hat and no cattle", and full of horses@#t.

MostlyCivil

If you delete the words "rural" and "NDP" from that sentence, you'll be far more accurate.

Richard_S_Argent

Garry Breitkreuz's ridiculous, paranoid, NRA rhetoric certainly has made it easier for the NDP to rationalize their switch eh?

John D

And for the CPC to ride this issue for another year or so

Dave

All the better to fundraise with.

Greg

The plan, I suspect, all along.

Dave

No need to merely suspect.

Style

Why won't Jack Layton show some real leadership on this? Instead of expecting people to work together on concrete proposals that address their legitimate concerns, he should be out there whipping his caucus and demonising his opponents like a real leader.
AJR79

Any bets on wheter he and Angus will be looking for a new job after the next election.

I know Angus would've been untouchable if he had kept his word, and voted for this Bill.

If he actually stands in the house, and backtracks on this issue, I don't see him coming out unscathed. This is a big issue in Northern Ontario; and we don't much like liars. Even liars with weak excuses.

Dave

Angus is untouchable either way.

Cats

Lol!

There is an avalanche of advertising coming.

Enjoying the deluge CATS!

Dave

They cancelled the ten-percenter program you know.

Cats

The party can pay for them themselves you know ? Plus local radio and newspaper adverts.

Cats!
Dave

They already have, to negligible effect in those northern ridings that have not, and do not, and never will vote for Harper. It's a waste of $10-envelope money, but if it helps keep rural media in the black, it's not a total waste.
Cats

It hasn't worked in the past because the local mps have been AGAINST the gun registry.

Now they aren't.

Things change eh ? Big time.

Changed birds!
Reverend_Blair

Let's not forget all of the people who have had problems with irresponsible hunters, all of the people who have noticed that gun crime in rural areas generally includes long guns etc.. You talk about rural areas like everybody in them is of one mind on the gun registry. They aren't.
Cats

In terms of which voting bloc carries the day they are. A majority of people in rural areas don't like the thing. A majority of people in urban areas do.

Almost 10% of Albertans vote GREEN. We don't go around describing them as environmentalists do we ?

All communities have outliers. It should not detract from us describing their general character.

Cats!

Crit_Reasoning

Sudbury may have just become a winnable seat for Conservatives, despite the strong union influence in that riding.

AJR79

I agree that Timmins James Bay going Tory is a long shot. With the right messaging, and campaign I do think they could make a race of it thou.

This is something that has real legs up here, and a constant hammering on Angus' honesty would put a big dent in him. He's been promising to get rid of this since he got elected. There is no other flip-flop that could have hurt him as badly, IMO.

A long shot at best, but worth a try. That's my assesment.
Marion

The last time a conservative came in second place there was in 2000. Wikipedia tells me that Thibeault had four thousand votes on the Conservative candidate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_(electoral_d…

Dave

Layton, yes.

Angus, no.

TedTylerEzro

Well, if Charlie Angus doesn't need gun registry opponents among his supporters, then all the best of luck to him.

I know that the issue of the gun registry helped turn a safe riding for the NDP called "Red Square" into Garry Breitkreuz's personal stronghold.

http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

That's pretty amazing considering Breitkreuz won the seat before the gun registry was even an idea.

Mike T.

FActs aren't imporant. Making a noise machine instead of having to address the issue is important.
TedTylerEzro

Sure, he won the seat beforehand because everyone was fed up with sticky fingers Nystrom and the NDP in general. But keeping him there for 17 years is due to 2 factors.

1) The gun registry.
2) He is an excellent constituency MP.

Reverend_Blair

There were, and are, a lot more issues than guns in Yorkton-Melville. And what did Nystrom do to deserve being accused of having sticky fingers? Besides, Nystrom finished up his career in Regina-Qua'apelle…Andy Scheer's riding now.

Also, I know a lot of people in the area who really don't like Breitkreuz as an MP much, but started voting for him because of the gays, guns and god thing. Gay marriage is off the table, abortion and other religious issues are off the table. What does he have left if the gun registry goes away? Most farmers up there like the CWB and aren't too happy about the Conservative handling of farm programs…especially the lack of cash this year.

I'm not saying that he's going to lose the next time out, but the Conservatives are getting pretty thin on issues in rural Saskatchewan.

AJR79

Angus won't be getting a free ride on this if my circle of friends and family (some long-time Orange shirts too) is any indication.

I believe he still will scape by, due to my riding being full of union supporters to the point of sounding communist sometimes, but he will be much reduced in his margin of victory.

With the right messaging and campaign it could be a winnable seat IMO. It is a long shot thou, I don't really hear a lot of Harper love around here. (and Greenberg is invisible)

Derek

The gun registry was brought in in 1995. Since that time we have had elections in 1997, 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2008 – and in each of those election the Conservatives were the only party that explicitly tried to tapped into anti-gun registry sentiment – and not only did they not win a single seat in northern Ontario – they finished a distant third almost everywhere. If you look at the numbers in most of the ridings held by NDP MPs from the north – it is the Liberals who are their main threat and the Tories are totally out of it.

Dave

Don't confuse them with facts. It gives them ice-cream headaches.

Cats

Yes except the individual MPs in question have managed to hold on to their seats by not supporting the gun registry.

Someone like Larry Bagnel up north for instance.

Best mice!

gar

If supporting this registry would keep one illegal gun out of our country it may be worth it.This registry makes honest people pay to register a firearm.To most law breakers this must be the biggest joke around.We Canadians have been taken to the wire by the Liberals and the left suggesting that this registry does the trick .Before you think it does just one thought. Major cities in our country are full of illegal weapons.In the event of an internal crisis like the one in
Quebec years ago the government could round up every legal registered gun.Do you really believe those who would perpetrate a civil uprising would have their guns registered.So after the legal round up by the feds saying they will protect us who has the hammer.This registry is the first sign of the loss of ones individual freedom

Jenn_

Wouldn't registering cars have been the first sign of the loss of ones individual freedom?

gar

How far fetched can you get? There is a big difference between something that is used on a daily basis to get to their jobs and one who uses something for pleasure or food on occassion.There were 42000 fatal car accidents in Canada last year how many people were killed with long guns?

Jenn_

I don't know, but that is a good question. Wouldn't it be nice if we could actually have information like that to inform our discussion? But that will never do, and I imagine the sentiment is shared by both sides of the debate. Similarly, the idea that urban folks don't want rural folks to own guns. I think that's a load of bunk, myself, but again I have no information which would back me up. I just know I'm afraid of bears, my co-workers are afraid of bears, and it is reasonable to assume that living in the country doesn't make you not afraid of bears.

But how many do you figure would be too many before controls were put in place for their ownership and use?

Richard_S_Argent

"This registry makes honest people pay to register a firearm."

FUN FACT: According to the nice lady from the RCMP I just spoke with, there is no fee for registering your firearm in Canada!

Dave

Stop facting!
gar

Check Again that is the registry purchase of a fire arm that has been around for years.You do not think the cost of operating the Long gun registry has been cheap 2 billion start up another 120 million a year to operate thats not counting upgrading soft ware every few years

brooster

"…another 120 million a year to operate"

???

Where did that number come from?
Richard_S_Argent

"…another 120 million a year to operate thats not counting upgrading soft ware every few years "

Odd, according to this very website, it costs about 100 times less than that.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/08/26/rcmp-report-lo…

"The report found that the Canadian Firearms Program is operating efficiently at a cost of $1.1 million to $3.6 million per year, and contains over 40 pages of analysis of the effectiveness of the firearms registry in both urban and rural areas."

Blue

I have no doubt that the Billion plus spent on the gun registry has helped to win and solidify Liberal and NDP urban seats especially with the women voters who believe that all guns are evil.
And I have no doubt that when Bill C-391 is defeated it will mean some suburban and rural seats will change to Conservative.
And that`s all the gun registry is –a political football to kick around and gain a few points here and there.
Any thinking person knows it is a useless tool for an increasingly computer-crazy but street–silent police. Just a power grab for police chiefs and a vote-getter for politicans.
Looking back to Montreal, 1989, it would have been better if there was more restrained wisdom than the naive compassion that allows one crazy man to dictate pointless policy.
And I have no interest in guns or hunters but I recognize silly government spending when I see it.
Mulletaur

Either the NDP is a principle based party, or it isn't. If it is, Jack Layton must whip his caucus to help defeat this government bill to get rid of the long gun registry masquerading as a private members bill. If it isn't, Layton can just continue on as he is doing, and his party will pay the price in the next election. NDP voters respect elected politicians who stand up for principles, not so much those who fudge important issues to save their own skins.

gar

Shouldnt NDP politicans stand up for their voters principles that is what they were elected to do?.

Mulletaur

Which of their voters, the urban ones or the rural ones ? This is a division they are going to feel intensely no matter what they do. Also, what about the people that didn't vote for the NDP but are still represented by an NDP member ? Leadership does not consist only of being the reflection of the plurality of views of any given riding. It also consists of using your judgement to do what is right for the good of the country as a whole. The NDP has always trumpeted itself as the party that does what is right, regardless of the electoral consequences. The contradiction between the NDP's words and actions is now brutally apparent. Jack Layton's leadership of the NDP is a busted flush.
Dave

How many Conservative voters in 2006 knew they were voting to "recognize Quebec as a nation"?

Style

I thought democracy was one of their principles and that was why they didn't whip private members bills. Not sure what gave me that idea.

Derek

Layton is doing the right thing by trying to persuade his MPs to agree with him on this issue – as opposed to using dictatorial, Stalinist tactics to get his way. If he succeeds in convincing enough of his MPs to save the registry – it will be a triumph for him and a total fiasco for the Liberals.

Mulletaur

No, it will be a triumph for the Harper Conservatives, and the end of NDP urban representation.

Style

Yes, Stalinism is what urban New Democrat voters demand . If Jack abandons that, he will have to rely almost solely on the Taliban vote…

Dave

Staliban Jack?

Style

I want that t-shirt.

Dave

Really. This is the hottest button that CPC headquarters has, and they want it to be around for years to come. If it looked like Heppner's bill would pass, there'd be a delegat of Tory MP's on the next available Challenger to the closests airport in Canada where the fog was closing in.

Cats

Timing of a private member's bill is strictly up to the private member in consultation with the speaker.

She would have yanked the thing.

I can tell you right now that 100% of the CPC caucus will be in their seats voting against Holland's motion regarding her bill.

Calling you out Cats!

Dave

They aren't going to put pennies under the gravy train.

Cats

I just think your analysis is way off. Maybe you're right about the backroom boys.

But Candice Hoeppner is a true believer. She 100% hopes this thing dies. And there is ZERO way that she's going to let anyone in her own party not show up and vote against Holland's motion to kill her bill.

Cats!

Reverend_Blair

Yeah, but she's a backbencher not known for her…let's call it political acumen, to be polite.
Cats

And what's the dream of every backbencher? Killing the registry would be a huge notch on her belt. It would certainly help her move to the frontbenches one of these days.

That's why I think the analysis about how the CPC don't really want this to pass misses the point.

Its not in the hands of party strategists. Whatever happens will happen. There is no "fix" being called in here.

Pundit Bashing Cats!

Jenn_

Doesn't anyone else think it's strange that the debate revolves around whether the Liberals shouldn't whip their votes and whether the NDP should whip their votes, but nobody ever mentions the Conservatives? Like, it goes without saying (which it does, I grant you) and therefore urban voters will just forgive their MPs. Well, why?

Style

The Conservative MPs aren't reversing their previous votes. No change, no cost. Was that a Woody Guthrie song?

Jenn_

Well I get that they aren't part of Wherry's scorecard, but surely you aren't saying a political party gets a pass on criticism on whether to whip their MPs or not, if they ALWAYS whip their MPs? Because that's, uh, strange logic.

Style

No, I'm saying the Liberal MPs are being forced by their leader to *change* from how they've always previously voted. The Conservatives aren't whipped on every vote, but on this issue the caucus has been consistent so nobody is going back on a commitment they made to their constituents.

Reverend_Blair

Yeah, this wasn't an issue that was discussed much in the last couple of elections in the 'burbs. Not a lot of hunters in Tuxedo or Charleswood here. There are a lot of people not happy about gun crime though.

gar

I think we must have a registry for knives they kill more people than guns .They say the long gun is used in most suicides.We better make an offense to hang yourself or use gas.We must stop all this.Bring on more laws so honest people can watch the crooks break them
Cats

The proposal was no penalty of any kind for the first offence and then the usual penalties after that.

If you decriminalize it then you need to do so for every offence, be it the first or the fifth.

Cats!
hollinm

Does the naive NDPer realize there will be no legislation passed to change the gun registry? Like the Liberal proposed amendments which may be unconstitutional, the changes proposed will not do anything to solve the problem. The registry does not reduce crime or save lives and has cost Canadian taxpayers billions.
Those rural MPs who do not support the bill will lose their seats in the next election.
http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

What's this about potentially unconstitutional amendments? How's about a link?
Cats

It has to do with the proposal to decriminalize the first offence for not registering.
Its not possible to have something in the criminal code with no penalty.

(Even Liberals Holland and Reagan have admitted they are opening a can of worms with their ideas.)

Cats!
Mike T.

Why bother?
Dave

Wow you sound exactly like the talking points that family man Vic Toews spouted on the political shows an hour ago.
Cats

Ok ? Except my post was from 7 hours ago.

They aren't talking points by the way. Its just a fact.

Pretty much everyone, including Liberals, acknowledge that you can't have a crime with no penalty.

Called you out good and now you're sore, CATssszsz! YEAH!