Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

One brave man steps forward to challenge the Internet

by Aaron Wherry on Monday, September 13, 2010 4:17pm - 0 Comments

Liberal MP Shawn Murphy expresses concerns about anonymous online comments, is immediately scorned by anonymous online commenters.

“I found that the comments are getting nastier and nastier,” Murphy said in an interview with The Guardian.

“I believe there is a feeling of anonymity out there when people make the comments but as there have been many court cases in the last year from all across Canada that it is very easy for one to get the ISP numbers of the computer that those comments came from through a court order.”

“An Outraged Canadian” responds.

Typical Liberal small minded approach to a problem that doesn’t exist. A lot of us can’t use our names as our comments would be seen as coming from the organizations we work for – especially if you worked in government lets say and wanted to post a comment about how it doesn’t work… I also don’t want my name plastered all around the internet for spammers and the like to grab hold of, but most importantly it will stifle the opinions of tens of thousands of Canadian’s who feel outraged at the crap politicians like Mr. Murphy put us through without an outlet. If someone says something libelous, then by all means go after the newspaper to release the name for the suit, but if I just say that Mr. Murphy reminds me of a long dead codfish, then fair game. If he doesn’t like it, he shouldn’t get into politics.

Tags: internet, Shawn Murphy

More by Aaron Wherry

Stephen Harper

I can see no way in his idea could be misused.
LdKitchenersOwn

it is very easy for one to get the ISP numbers of the computer that those comments came from

Yeah, sure it is.

First, I think it's IP address he's looking for there, not "ISP Number". Furthermore, frankly, what limited good does having an IP address even do you? Does he think it's like a SIN, attached to a specific person for life? 'Cause no one uses dynamic IPs, and every wireless network in the country is secured? 'Cause no one in the history of the internet has figured out how to make it look like a message came fro IP address 1 when it really came from IP address 2? 'Cause your ISP couldn't possibly assign you one address last week, and a totally new address this week!

Whenever discussions turn to the law and technology I get worried, 'cause clearly the people making the laws have no idea, even at a rudimentary level, how the technology works.

Stephen Harper

It's possible to keep records of assigned numbers, if you make it mandatory. BUT the proxy server issue would effectively put an end to being able to track down a saavy poster.
Tony

And your IP is bound to a MAC address as soon as it hits a router – how much would this idea cost The Liberals?
Anonymous Coward

Stop nit-picking the non-technical person. Of course s/he means IP address.
Secondly, even if you'r e on a dynamic IP, your ISP will generally keep a record of which IP was assigned to whom and when. Proxies can keep you anonymous, provided they too don't keep records of who connected and when. Same with VPN services. You could use the onion router, since it specifically is designed to keep you anonymous.

Either way, the point is that when you think you are anonymous, you are less anonymous to some people than you think.

Look at the 4CHAN kid who posted a video of himself abusing a cat. Outraged 4CHAN users figured out who it was by analyzing the video frame by frame and comparing it with other posts by the same person — after 2 weeks of dedicated work they had his name, address and submitted it to the police who eventually arrested him.

LdKitchenersOwn

Yeah, but those 4CHAN people are crazy. I'm pretty sure if we could find a YouTube video of Osama bin Laden abusing a cat, they'd have him tracked down before October.

tobyornotoby

Awesome! Crowd source is easily more powerful than Jack Bauer even on a good day.

Emily

A remarkably stupid comment.
wsam

MP Shawn Murphy sold me hash in high school.

Reverend_Blair

So, you're saying he's okay then?

tobyornotoby

i'll have to take a new look at what he's saying.

Sean Murphy PC MP FU

I have my lawyer on speed dial just in case one of you anonymous cretins decides to libel me or impersonate me. Feeling lucky, punks?
BGLong

Long dead cod fish are considered to be a delicacy in parts of Scandinavia.

That ugly enough for ya ?
LynnTO

The commenter's point about individuals not wanting their thoughts attributed to their organization (and the liability issues that stem from that) is a valid one, and would be better argued if he didn't encase it in partisan rhetoric and insults, which sort-of proves Murphy's point.

Anonymous posting is becoming less of a tool for people to express their opinions freely and more of a licence for people to hurl insults at each other all the while feeling invincible, as though there would be no limits on their free speech or consequences for their actions. There are fora on which this is more of a problem (CBC, are you reading this? Stop letting your commenters call each other candidates for retroactive abortion) and where it is less of a problem (this side of the Maclean's boards, and a selection of message boards I frequent). Nonetheless, it's my impression that the idea that "anonymity is power" is spreading faster than "play nice in the sandbox" values we learned in Kindergarten.

Orson Bean

I agree that, for some reason, the CBC board seems to be particularly toxic. Every time I start reading the comments under any story there, I quickly stop and bail.

hollinm

Orson Bean….have you read the comments on the Globe website? The Globe comment board seems to have been taken over by the Liberal war room. Some comments get a 1000 agrees or disagrees on a particular subject. None of the other media sites get these kind of hits. However, most sites are moderated and so if the comments are vicious then they should be removed which I am seeing more and more of. The idea that someon can write 12 or 15 comments on one story seems silly. It invites trash talk.

tobyornotoby

No it has been taken over by the Partisan Warrior Society. Real people with individual opinions are like waves on pebbles buried under sand. There is no dishonesty so strident as partisan dishonesty.

wellwell

"How am I supposed to savage my $#@ing M.P. with total impunity if anonymous commenting is banned? After all, I'm a civil servant, and I've got lots of complaints, the most prominent of which is that I'm paid a full time salary to perform a job I clearly hate. I need to post nasty messages from my government-issued computer, or I'm going to go postal!"
Sigh

QED
RunningGag

Someone is about to get rolled by 4chan…

As an aside, doesn't Mr. Murphy's signature look like that of a 5 years old? http://www.shawnmurphymp.ca/index-pass.php
name's not important

The only thing more lame than this idea is having to register to comment – well, that and forcing individuals pursuing scientific research being forced to speak only when given permission. The idea that people own others' thoughts and minds is gaining a frightening degree of favour – in the eyes of intellectual cowards and cynics.
Thwim

It seems someone is unaware of rules 5 and 6 of the internet.

Orson Bean

That you don't talk about Fight Club?

RunningGag

You don't talk about Fight Club.

http://onelinecritic.wordpress.com/ DirtyOldTown

Always question a person's sexual preferences without any real reason? And then I think there was something about cats…

RM-CGY

I tracked back to the original Guardian article and am still puzzled by the direction. Law enforcement is able to track back and identify posts of a criminal nature. Is the main concern that people are too nasty on the net? Can we also create laws to prevent people from being nasty in person while we're at it?

YES, people should be nicer. HELL NO we should not create laws to track and identify nasty people. How would you define nasty. Once upon a time HELL NO would have been considered nasty. What would the punishment for nasty be? Someone should rent Shawn Murphy a copy of Demolition Man and see what he thinks of trying to legislate a non-nasty society.
Jim Bowman

This Murphy guy is quite the bitch
Anonymous in Toronto

To the poster who thinks it's hard to track somebody down: yes, you're tight if the law enforcement team is not motivated. On the other hand, it isn't that hard for a talented systems investigator (it once took me 22 minutes to track something to a public library in Albera, but the political decision was not to pursue further. OK, politics. But don't BLAME it on the technology …

Still, anonymous comments in a semi-moderated environment are a staple of the internet and – as another poster noted – I wouldn't dare post under my real name; we're not NEARLY as free as you think.