Beyond The Commons

 Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Let's all hate Toronto

by Aaron Wherry on Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:46am - 0 Comments

John Baird, today. “I share the disappointment of many of my colleagues that people who had fought so long, so hard, so passionately against the registry are now feeling the pressure from the two Toronto leaders, Mr. Ignatieff and Mr. Layton,” Baird said. ”We’re all accountable. If we make clear and unambiguous promises in our constituencies and then face pressure from Toronto elites, [MPs are] accountable for that.”

Toronto Star, May 2006. Baird calls himself an “Ottawa boy” but concedes after living in the Big Smoke for about 10 years, Toronto is in his veins. He regularly visits the city, staying at his old apartment, which he sublet to a friend. ”I miss Toronto,” he said.

Tags: , , , , , , ,

Bookmark and Share
Newer Comments →
  • Dot

    Toronto nick: Iron Oxide

  • Richard_S_Argent

    Ladies and Gentlemen, your Parliamentarian Of The Year.

    sigh…

  • LynnTO

    Toronto isn't an adjective, it's a proper noun. At the very least, Mr. Baird, insult us properly.

    • Cats

      Yup, except he's not insulting you.

      He's making a point to Canadians that their local MPs should decide matters LOCALLY and not have them dictated to them from another city.

      If the party leaders were both from Ottawa he would have slammed Ottawa elites. So nope, not hate on Toronto.

      Just a made up narrative Wherry is pushing. Surprised he didn't include that quote where Baird swore at the unpopular city government and the Star took it as a dig against the entire city.

      Looking at the repudiation coming up in the municipal election I see people agree with Baird.

      Best fishes.

      • Amateur Hour

        Yet the police chiefs of cities across Canada unanimously supported the registry at their most recent meeting.

        This isn't about Toronto. It's not even about the long gun registry (note that Harper's government has refused to make this a government bill for 4+ years and is now hiding behind one MP's private motion).

        This is about 10 percenters and fundraising letters from the Conservative Fund of Canada. And Baird being a jerk.

        • Cats

          If the police chiefs make such a good argument then let local MPs have a free vote, do town halls, and come to their own conclusions. Obviously.

          Fundraising ?

          If you don't like the gun registry then a CPC majority will be necessary to get rid of it. Recent events prove that.

          Want to kill the registry. Give money to the CPC or vote CPC in the next election. Simple as that.

          Duh! Obvious Cats!

          • Amateur Hour

            Sorry, you're not being very effective because you're inverting the question, which should read:

            If Harper has such a good argument AGAINST the registry, why has he NOT made this a government bill over the past 4+ years?

          • Cats

            Government bills can be whipped. So it would lose.

            Harper can count. He doesn't waste legislative time to prove a point. He's into serious government, not the kind of stuns you seem to be calling for.

            Debunked you good Cats!

          • ChrisWPG

            LOL Cats, Harper has made so many of the governments bills confidence motions its sickening. If he is so sure that he has the backing of Canadians let him make it a confidence motion and let's go to the polls over this. He's not into serious government that's obvious, case in point, the manual to disrupt committees.

            De-furred you!

          • Cats

            Going to an election doesn't kill the registry, especially if Harper isn't poised to win a majority. That's totally counter productive.

            And passing the bill did nothing until this session when Harper took control of the senate committees by proroguing parliament. And it was in this session that the bill came up for a vote.

            Seems like he acted ASAP to kill the registry as soon as it became possible.

            Cats.

          • Blacktop

            Add on to what Cats says:1. The disassembly of the registry doesn't change control of licensing, required education and custody of guns. It just gets rid of the registry and the requirement to send a ltter if you get a gun. . Hand guns are controlled apart from the long gun registry.

            2. The point the chiefs make about the nuimber of referrals to the reigistry is a smoke screen. Every look-up in the police computer system automatically refers to the registyr whether guns ar involved or not.

            3. The chiefs haven't explained why over 1400 individual; policemen have no use for the registry.

      • Patchouli

        Yes, and everyone knows how true to their constituents the harper caucus is.

        You know, it's time for a certain cat to get neutered. Here kitty, kitty!

      • lenny

        "He's making a point to Canadians that their local MPs should decide matters LOCALLY and not have them dictated to them from another city."

        If that was his point, he would have named Harper who is whipping his MP's votes from Calgary, rather than Layton who isn't.

    • Inkless

      When did city names stop being usable as adjectives? Paris Métro? Moscow Circus? Bronx Cheer? Philadelphia lawyer? Shawinigan handshake?

      • LynnTO

        They're not, I was just being unnecessarily elitist.

      • ahm

        In what crazy world does Shawinigan count as a city?

  • John D

    I think what he meant was:

    "I share the disappointment of many of my colleagues that people who had fought so long, so hard, so passionately against the registry are now realizing that it will remain in place because we were such huge asses that we alienated Members who otherwise would have supported our motion, but hey we get to keep sending those fund-raising letters!"

  • lgarvin

    Hey, give John Baird some credit, at least he's admitting that Ignatieff is a Torontonian. That's only half a step from admitting that he's Canadian.

    Baby steps, Aaron, baby steps.

    • Patchouli

      Good one; this must be the incrementalism flanagan strategized.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ottawa_Centrist Ottawa_Centrist

    I look forward to more piercing insights from the government's house leader. Perhaps via pitchfork.

  • Stewart_Smith

    So if we hear about Baird coming out of the closet, it will be to admit that he likes Toronto?

    • Richard_S_Argent

      Depending on where that apartment of his is located in Toronto he could very well kill two closets with one stone :)

    • Kevin

      Especially Woody's.

    • Amateur Hour

      Sorry, I think that's off base. Baird's sexual preference isn't a political issue.

      His being a idiotic career parasite with no sense of honour, respect, reason or consistency is.

      • Kevin

        Ordinarily I'd agree with you 100%. But his habit of keeping quiet in the face of the homophobic b.s. coming out of the mouths of some of his colleagues makes him a target, IMO.

        • ChrisWPG

          No joke, he is out right? I did read that from a reliable source? I have certainly believed it which is why I have made him a target for exactly what you've described.

          • Patchouli

            No, he's not out; he's been outed, but went back in.

          • tedbetts

            Let's stay away from too much talk about in and out and in and out.

          • Patchouli

            Yeah I don't have time for another shower today. No worries, though: talk of Baird really takes the hot away.

        • Amateur Hour

          On those issues, it is indeed a valid point of debate.

          On the gun registry or disparaging the city of Toronto, it is not.

      • wsam

        Sure it is.

  • Style

    I hope Aaron collects and publishes the series of comparative quotes he's built up. It would be entertaining to own "Wherry's Contrasting Quotes that Are Completely Compatible with One Another".

  • Kevin

    I'm in between. Hated Toronto when I lived there. Love it now when I visit. Must be a support group out there for people like me.

    • Anon

      Ha! I actually hated T.O. until I actuallty moved there. Now I love it!

      • wsam

        I hate you.

        • Anon

          Where's the love?

  • Amateur Hour

    The Conservatives are sucking and blowing on this issue. They complain that the Liberals ARE whipping the vote on a private member's bill and that's not in keeping with "tradition". However, the registry is the product of Liberal policy and the least the party can do is demand its members show up top defend their own policy.

    Then the CPC complains that Jack Layton ISN'T whipping his caucus (esp. the rural members), after complaining that Iggy IS … Baird, Harper and the CPC are just full of it on this one.

    The fact that it is a private member's bill at all underscores that the CPC didn't have the testicular fortitude to make this a government bill in the first place. To claim some kind of moral high ground for not whipping your party for a bill you didn't even have the nads to back as a government is just daft.

    • tedbetts

      Have you evern heard of a party spending millions of its own dollars running a massive advertising campaign in support of a "private Member's" bill before? This was not a private members bill.

  • Cats

    Been over this a million times.

    Rural NDP and Liberal MPS were elected on a promise to kill the registry.
    Urban CPC MPs were elected on a promise to kill the registry.

    Pretty important part of democracy, for which Gordon Campbell in BC is paying a big price, DO WHAT YOU SAID YOU'D DO DURING AN ELECTION!

    Cats!

    • Amateur Hour

      Why, then, has Harper's government not introduced a bill to kill the registry? This is a private member's bill and a pretty weak one at that … if it were so vital to keep their electoral promises and a crucial part of the government's agenda agenda, why has Harper done squat on the matter for more than 4 years? Why is he hiding behind a single MP's motion?

      • Cats

        What's your point ? If Harper introduced a government bill it would lose. Instead he brought in an amnesty that he's renewed four times now. If he loses the next election that amnesty will end.

        If people want the registry gone they'll need to give the CPC a majority in the next election. Only way it will ever go away.

        Obviously Cats.

        • bennji1977

          Or he could have killed it as part of the 2010 Budget omnibus bill.

          Or he could have introduced it as a confidence motion.

          • Cats

            The budget bill concerned ECONOMIC matters and contained no "poison pills". That would have been an instant "poison pill".

            Confidence motion does what ? Causes an election or sends it to the senate where a Liberal majority could kill it ?

            Harper didn't take control of the senate committees until he prorogued this year. This year is when we're holding a vote on the registry.

            Its pretty clear he acted ASAP as soon as a window of opportunity opened for him to kill the registry.

            Obviously Cats.

          • bennji1977

            Really – the senate didn't seem to think so http://www.thehilltimes.ca/page/view/legislation-…

          • Cats

            Any crime legislation in that mix ?

            Everything in there was legitimately economic. including the registry would have been a poison pill and forced the Liberals to show up in force to vote non-confidence.

            Cats.

          • ChrisWPG

            So, for the record, the Cons are afraid to go to the electorate over this because they know they won't win?

          • Cats

            Yes.

            If the CPC force an unpopular election over the gun registry its not likely they would improve their current seat count.

            Agreement Cats.

    • Richard_S_Argent

      Were they elected on that promise? I don't recall hearing anything from the NDP about the registry during the campaign. Could you point me to some proof of this?

      Thanks!

      • Cats

        Do your own research, i'm not digging through local newspapers and debate transcripts that aren't even on the internet.

        In every rural election the registry question gets asked and all the candidates give an answer. I can tell you 100% that the 12 NDP MPs who voted for Hoepnner's bill have all made their objections to the registry known along with countless other rural NDP candidates.

        Cats!

        • Richard_S_Argent

          I wasn't asking you to do *my* research, I was asking you to prove your statement. I'm not sure why this should be so onerous a request.

          Didn't write any essays in high school I gather?

          • Cats

            I love you sophists.

            Its like asking someone who doesn't have the scientific formula for gravity on hand to "prove it".

            The burden is on YOU to prove that common sense and conventional wisdom is wrong.

            You seriously would have us believe the following:

            Rural NDP candidates ran an entire election campaign WITHOUT issuing any statement whatsoever on one of the most pressing rural issues out there ?

            Yeesh. Give me a break Cats!

          • Richard_S_Argent

            Just so we're clear, this conversation has progressed thusly:

            Cats: "Rural NDP and Liberal MPS were elected on a promise to kill the registry."

            Richard: " Were they elected on that promise? I don't recall hearing anything from the NDP about the registry during the campaign. Could you point me to some proof of this?"

            Cats: "Do your own research"

            Richard (paraphrased): "You made the statement, I asked for evidence"

            Cats (paraphrased): You sophist(?!), the burden of proof is on YOU to prove my statement!

            ———-

            I'm afraid the burden of proof is indeed on you. Sorry.

          • Cats

            No Richard. Let's be clear.

            You made a statement.

            "I don't recall hearing anything from the NDP about the registry during the campaign."

            You're honestly going to have us believe that rural NDP members went an entire election without answering this question ?

            No citizen asked it. No reporter asked it. No debate asked it ?

            You not hearing something or you not being hand fed proof of something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

            Its conventional wisdom that nobody gets elected in rural Canada without promising to kill the registry. Chantal Hebert has written a column on how this may cost some of those rural NDP members their seats.

            Cats.

          • Richard_S_Argent

            But what, dear Cats, was my statement in response to??

          • Pat

            Actually, to prove your statement you have to do more than establish the candidates campaigned on abolishing the registry. You also have to establish they were elected on that basis. The gun registry is not the number one issue for everyone.

            Not that I believe you will grasp this concept, since you seem to still be having trouble with teh need to support your own assertions.

          • Holly Stick

            You guys are so mean, expecting Cats to do research to back up his lies with.

          • Cats

            Look, I got you guys started:

            NDP MP Nathen Cullen: http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/houston-today….

            "Speaking on behalf of Cullen, Constituency Assistant Shelley Browne said that the Skeena-Bulkley Valley MP’s stance is the same now as in the past five years."

            Do your own research Cats.

          • Cats

            He's some more quotes:
            http://www.scraptheregistry.ca/quotes/

            Alex Atamanenko, Dennis Bevington, Nathan Cullen, Carol Hughes.

            There's four with anti-registry statements pre-last election.

            So far the research is proving me right…

            Victorious Cats!

          • Richard_S_Argent

            Can you double check that bclocalnews link? It's not working.

            Also, only Bevington's quote was both before the election and unequivocal about voting to abolish the registry – the others either express concern about it or were given after the election (and therefore cannot be conclusive proof that the candidates campaigned on, and were elected on an anti-registry platform)

            (hold off on the popping that champagne).

          • Cats

            That Cullen link isn't working, I think it got cut off when I c&p'd it. Anyways it was found on a google search after two seconds of typing in "nathan cullen" gun registry.

            I don't have any more time for research. I'm sure someone has a more complete list of quotes out there.

            Its pretty clear that the 12 rural NDP MPs have sold their electorate a bill of goods. Let alone a Liberal MP like Larry Bagnell who will flat out lose the next election.

            Expect a 3 seat sweep in the North for the CPC.

            Cats.

          • Richard_S_Argent

            It's not clear at all actually.

            Again, only one of those quotes fits the criteria of being before the election and unequivocal about killing the registry – Bevington's. And even that one was in 2006, not during the election campaign – so I'm uncertain how this proves that "Rural NDP and Liberal MPS were elected on a promise to kill the registry"…which remember, was your statement that began this conversation.

          • Cats

            Actually CATS!

          • bennji1977

            Now I know that you will state that not all rural Canadian's are farmers, I am sure that there very few farmers that are urbanites.

            With that being said, given that the long gun registry is one of the most "pressing issues out there" one would think that the Canadian Federation of Agriculture would at least make mention of it in it's 100 page policy manual.
            http://www.cfa-fca.ca/sites/default/files/file/Po…

        • ChrisWPG

          Nope, I did the research and can't find a single rural riding where the NDP said they would scrap it during the last election.

          • Cats

            Really ? So those 12 NDP MPs who voted to kill the registry just stunned everybody ? None of us saw it coming ? Totally blind sided their constituents ? Had managed to get elected while completely gnoring one of the most pressing rural issues out there ?

            Give me a break. That defies basic logic.

            We don't have access to debate transcripts or small town media writes ups from North Ontario.

            Not having access to something and something not existing is not the same thing.

            Cats.

          • ChrisWPG

            if we don't have proof we shouldn't make outlandish statements, so this should save you some typing?

          • Cats

            The fact that I don't want to spend an hour researching things means I shouldn't repeat what's common knowledge ?

            What i've read in article after article ?

            Give me a break Cats. Rural votes HATE the registry and yet somehow all these rural MPs got elected while supporting it or ignoring the issue ?? Even though the CPC candidates make it an issue election after election.

            Go do your own research. Here's a start. NDP MP Nathen Cullen:
            http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/houston-today…

            "Speaking on behalf of Cullen, Constituency Assistant Shelley Browne said that the Skeena-Bulkley Valley MP’s stance is the same now as in the past five years."

            That would include the 2008 election right ?

            Cats.

          • ChrisWPG

            Yepp, your right Cats, you found one NDP member who said they were against it during the 2008 election, and according to your article still is, I don't see this strengthening your argument.

          • Cats

            He's some more quotes:
            http://www.scraptheregistry.ca/quotes/

            Alex Atamanenko, Dennis Bevington, Nathan Cullen, Carol Hughes.

            There's four with anti-registry statements pre-last election.

            So far the research is proving me right…

            Victorious Cats!

          • ChrisWPG

            oh, that's a source I'd like to site in my next essay!! FAIL, but please don't bother trying again.

          • Cats

            Wow. So you asked for facts, got presented with them, and now don't want them ?

            Ok, just checking.

            Do your own damn research and stop making outlandish claims that everything we know about politics is wrong unless we spend hours digging up sources on the internet but ONLY THE RIGHT SOURCES.

            Give me a break.

            Ridiculous cats.

        • tedbetts

          Shorter Cats: I'm lying through my teeth so piss off.

          • Cats

            Shorter Ted Betts: See above.

            I got you started on the research. I'm sure someone has a list of past remarks MPs have made on the registry. Aaron Wherry is good at this stuff, no ?

            Only when its used to highlight CPC flip flops of course. Never when its a Liberal or a Dipper flip flopping.

            Cats!

          • tedbetts

            You are the one making the assertion here, Cats.

            And you are the one who can't back it up with a single quotation. Ha!

            But instead trying to pass the buck of responsibility for proving the truth of your own statements on to others. How bloody typical.

          • Cats

            A single quotation ?

            Um I just linked to a whole raft of quotes.

            How bloody typical. Ted Betts doesn't know which way is up.

            Typical Cats.

          • http://scottdiatribe.canflag.com/ Scott_Tribe

            Ted at least can make his statements and insults without hiding behind an anonymous handle.

          • Cats

            Actually Scott Tribe i'd be embarrassed to associate my name to that chicken scratch you put out on your website.

            Mmm K? 90% of the people here don't include their first and last name on the internet.

            That's just stupid. Good way to get hit with identity theft.

            Cats!

    • ChrisWPG

      you can huff and puff all you want during an election but that makes you no less accountable to all the people in your riding, and no urban Cons were elected over the gun registry, they were elected because the left/center vote was split. And don't make me get out Harper's list of broken promises….

    • LynnTO

      Do you really want to open that door, Cats? I mean, really? Because there is a whole list of things on which every party, including the Conservatives, have flipped.

      • Cats

        I do Lynn.

        Two wrongs don't make a right. Hold everyone accountable for breaking promises, including the CPC.

        Cats!

        • http://dougsamu.wordpress.com doug_rogers

          "Two wrongs don't make a right."

          That "Two Wrongs make a Right" is the whole of the CPC platform!

          • Cats

            Zing!

            Falling flat on your face Cats.

      • tedbetts

        Including the current PM. And on the initial vote that actually implemented the gun registry no less. Harper was for the gun registry before he was against it.

        • Cats

          He voted against the registry by third reading.

          Facts Ted ?

          Shorter Ted Betts: I'm lying through my teeth.

          Caught some mice.

          • ChrisWPG

            so he flip flopped then. I see.

          • Cats

            He was initially open to the idea. Then he listened to his constituents, he considered the issue and he came out against it.

            A yes vote on second reading is just to send an issue to committee to study something and hear witnesses.

            What i've described is pretty much the legislative process.

            If doing your job is flip flopping then so does everybody.

            Cats.

          • ChrisWPG

            The NDP have been perfectly clear that those who changed there vote did so after consulting there constituents, sounds just like the Harper story you've presented.

          • Cats

            That's fair.

            But if they've broken a promise or mislead their constituents on their position then they will face consequences.

            Harper hasn't had any trouble being re-elected so it hasn't been a problem for him. Interesting to see what happens to somebody like Larry Bagnell or Dennis Bevington.

            You seriously think those two northern MPs can win after this Cats ?

          • ChrisWPG

            Yepp, No doubt about it. Can't wait till the next election to see who's right!!

          • tedbetts

            Kinda sorta exactly like what the some NDP and Lib MPs are doing, eh? The one's you are criticizing.

            Ah! but I forget the golden rule of Conservativism: Our Principles Don't Apply To Us!!!!

          • Cats

            See above.

            Gonna throw some rural MPs out big time if they don't support Hoepner.

            Cats!

          • Richard_S_Argent

            Allow me to link to a comment I made a couple days back about this issue – the notion that this vote will cause the NDP to be ruined in rural/northern Canada just doesn't add up. The NDP won many of those seats quite handily, and the runner up was generally the Liberals. Only 2 ridings (Sault Ste Marie and Bevington's) were close and had the Conservatives running second.
            http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/14/jack-layton-as…

            If the Gun Registry vote is certain to cost the NDP those seats then by the same logic it should also cost the Conservatives some sub/urban ridings they narrowly won (Mississauga-Erindale and Oak Ridges-Markham for example), right?

            (As for the Liberals, they don't have too many rural ridings anyways, but I suppose Bagnell could be susceptible in Yukon – although he won with a 13% lead over the Conservative candidate. In Nova Scotia they beat the Conservatives by a 2 to 1 margin in most rural ridings they hold, so it's unlikely they'll switch Blue)

          • Cats

            The difference is that in the next election the CPC candidate will be the ONLY person who can make a credible argument that a vote for them is a vote to kill the registry.

            As opposed to in the past where the NDP, Liberal, and CPC candidates were all agreeing that they don't like the registry.

            That's gonna be a game changer. And its going to help recruit credible candidates next go around.

            Cats!

          • Cats

            Not sure if it will hurt CPC candidates in urban ridings. Possibly.

            However, the intensity is more on the side of not liking the registry than liking it until you get into downtown urban areas where people hate guns.

            Best mice.

          • MP3

            I'm having so much fun reading this thread – it's a hoot. Cats, you slay me you with your pretzel twisting! Don'[t hurt your back doing it tho'.
            By the way, why won't the cons let their urban MPs vote the wishes of their constituents on this? John Baird representing the good urban folks of west ottawa nepean – any chance you'll vote your constituents wishes on this?

          • Cats

            Baird was elected on a platform of killing the gun registry. All CPC members were.

            They'll vote the way they promised during an election. Wish the rural NDP/Liberal members could say the same.

            Unfortunately they've flip flopped.

            Cats!

  • bennji1977

    Well, we can never criticize this government of being nation builders.

    Glad were are back to hating those Toronto elitists today, b/c it was getting hard hating those Quebec separatists. I mean, I love hockey and would love nothing more than a return of the Nordiques. So much hate, so little time.

    I have to say that I am feeling a little defeated – may be I should move to Atlantic Canada.

    • LynnTO

      Not just elitists, but elites. Apparently, being an elite from Toronto means that you pressure MPs from ridings outside the city to vote against the wishes of their constituents.

      Being an elitist from Toronto just means one points out such distinctions.

  • Alan

    Stephen Harper was born and raised in Toronto. He has a master's degree. I'm not sure what John Baird's definition of "Toronto elites" is but I'm pretty sure it would include the Prime Minister.

    • ChrisWPG

      when you include the economist who couldn't see a financial meltdown on the horizon, was forced into stimulus spending he said he would never spend, and well let's be honest, you can tell he's lying when he opens his mouth, in the group of elitists, it makes me glad i'm just part of the chattering class.

      • Orson Bean

        Wow, three LPC talking points in one short post. Nice job.

        • ChrisWPG

          Those may be LPC talking points, but they are also facts, sometimes there isn't a lot of difference, sometimes there is.

          • Holly Stick

            Orson thinks that if he calls something an LPC talking point, that's the same as using evidence and research and hard work to refute it.

    • Amateur Hour

      I guess a guy who wears a tux to the symphony and dines at Hy's and hobnobs with executives, ministers and senators isn't an elite … if he lives in Ottawa and lies for a living.

      Me on the other hand, a manager of a small business with a wife and a mortgage, who supports charities and pays his taxes … I'm an elite because I live in Toronto and can think without talking points? Because I can see nothing wrong with restricting ownership of some types of weapons (handguns), licensing long-gun owners and registering the long-guns themselves … I'm an elite?

      Mom will be so proud.

      • wsam

        Hey, elite-boy. Don't spill your latte.

        I bet you hate the troops.

        • Amateur Hour

          "I bet you hate the troops."

          You mean my Dad, uncle and half the males in my family on both sides?

          • Cats

            Not you I see.

            Yep. Thought so.

            Cats.

          • Amateur Hour

            No, I worked for defence agencies developing defence systems and technologies, not in the uniformed services. Someone's got to actually make the kit, ya know.

      • Patchouli

        Your mum did well, Amateur, very well.

        Good post.

  • Alan

    My understanding (which admittedly might be wrong) is that he could make pretty much any bill a confidence one. The real issue is convincing the GG that it was a confidence issue. If he tried that on this bill, I would imaging/expect/hope the GG would turn him down.

    • ChrisWPG

      like the last two prorogations(is that even a word?)? This time it will be with a GG he appointed, I can't see him not getting his way to create a dictatorship at this point.

    • Amateur Hour

      It would be a tough slog to convince the GG that a private member's bill defeated by a majority of the House was indeed a vote of non-confidence in a government THAT ITSELF REFUSED TO EVEN SPONSOR THE BILL or whip it's own caucus on the vote.

    • Jan

      When's the new GG being sworn in?

    • Holly Stick

      "…I would imaging/expect/hope the GG would turn him down. " Oh, what a missed opportunity! Surely you mean she would shoot him down!

  • wsam

    Conservatives only have urban votes if you count Calgary as a stand-alone urban area and not a suburb of Houston.

    • Orson Bean

      I forgot: it's wrong to slag Toronto, but it's right to slag Calgary.

      • Holly Stick

        I'm from Calgary – I thought that was funny.

        And I want to keep the gun registry, so that makes me one of Baird's Toronto elites.

      • ChrisWPG

        you have to consider your audience, notice the majority of Con supporters here don't sign up for accounts because they would be embarrassed by there low cumulative scores.

  • McC_

    (1 of 2) Posted this two weeks ago, and I think it still applies "It would be bizarre for the PM to declare a Private Member's Bill to be a matter of confidence, because by definition, such a bill is the private initative of an individual Member of Parliament who is not part of the "Government" (even though she is a member of the governing caucus in this case; i.e. she is not a member of Cabinet). One could say that where a PMB gets at fundamental matters of policy it might make sense to make it a confidence matter, but I would note that Pablo Rodriguez's C-288 "An Act to ensure Canada meets its global climate change obligations under the Kyoto Protocol", which received Royal assent in Parl 39.1, was not made a confidence matter, the government instead argued that it was out of order."

    • McC_

      (2of2)"However, "bizarre" does not mean impossible, and my understanding is that the PM can declare any vote a matter of confidence, because (again, by definition) the Government declaring that a vote is a confidence matter makes the outcome of that vote an expression of confidence in the Government."

      "From the online Compendium of Parliamentary Procedure on the Confidence Convention: "It is not always clear what constitutes a question of confidence. Motions which clearly state that the House has lost confidence in the Government, motions concerning the Government’s budgetary policy, and motions which the Government clearly identifies as questions of confidence, are usually recognized as such.""

      • Richard_S_Argent

        So, theoretically he *could* declare this a confidence motion, but because it's a PMB it would likely be difficult to convince the GG to recognize it as such?

        I guess the heart of my question (which I fully admit to being far too lazy to look up myself :) is whether there are any limitations on declaring a vote a confidence one or if there's a procedure that needs to be followed – i.e. whether he can do so on the 3rd reading when the first two weren't.

        Again thank you for your reply!

      • tedbetts

        It has to be a government bill in order to declare the confidence "in the government" was lost on a vote.

        • Richard_S_Argent

          so at the very least the government has to sponsor the bill? (Which I gather they did not in this case?)

          • MP3

            this is not a government bill so it can't be a confidence vote. If they were serious about scrapping the registry they would have submitted a government bill within the 5 years they've been in power. Whether they want to have an election on the gun registry by declaring it a government bill and a motion of confidence would be more than risky it would be downright stupid. You wouldn't be able to keep the clowns like Breitkreuz down – and it was his antics with the police chiefs are a cult and police just want to confiscate our guns nonsense that helped turn public opinion and gave the opposition parties the momentum on this.

            Besides, why actually succeed and get rid of the registry when your campaign to get rid of the registry can go on and on and on, and you can milk donations out of your base. Pretty soon though the base is bound to catch on that they're just being played, right? Right?

  • Mark R

    I agree Cats and Style.

  • Patchouli

    Ha! If you don't count that little TO burb Pearson was from, then I guess that would be

    STEVE HARPER!

    hahaha! good one!

  • tedbetts

    This is not a government bill so he can't say to the GG he's lost the confidence of the House when this vote is lost.

    Harper would never have the guts to go to an election on this issue. Especially after it loses on a "private" members bill first.

    • burlivespipe

      No, worse is that Harper will flip on his money tree hat and just turn the defeat of this bill to rattle the crazies for cash. And it'll work.

  • DianeG

    He's trying to widen the urban vs. rural gap. Meanwhile, here in Kitchener Waterloo area there is lots of support to keep the gun registry. Oh wait, maybe we are all elitists too. After all we have the Perimiter Institute and the Centre for International Governance in addition to a lot of farm folk. Guess we fit the category. Plus Toronto is only an hour away. Uh-oh.

  • Skinny Dipper

    Ah Toronto! It's not as bad as Lethbridge.

    • Gary

      Not sure what you KNOW about Lethbridge, but it is probably the most Liberal city in Alberta. David Swann, Current Provincial Liberal leader was born down the road a bit. Liberals are routinely elected there to represent the city in the Legislature.

      • frobisher

        Pretty awesome art gallery, too.

  • gottabesaid

    Nice to see Baird getting the latest session off and running in the spirit of non-partisanship and co-operation, just like he said he would. Separatists, socialists, Tamil migrants, Toronto elites… who else do I need to add to the list of those to fear/despise?

  • Dave

    I for one am glad to see this softer, gentler, squishier, more concilia-Tory John Baird.

  • http://stumblingabordeaux.blogspot.com Pato31

    I don't mind the Toronto bashing! Then again, I might just be jaded since I'm from Winnipeg.

  • PeteTong

    I'm a Torontonian elite and proud of it. And I can tell you why Baird misses Toronto but you would probably delete the post.

Newer Comments →

Previous

Next

From Macleans