Colby Cosh

Colby Cosh

Maclean’s man in Edmonton writes about everything. Follow Colby on Twitter: @colbycosh

The recurring question that haunts pro-lifers

by Colby Cosh on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 8:53am - 0 Comments

Libertyville Abortion Demonstration: still my favourite YouTube video of all time. No scripted comedy will ever make me laugh as hard as the monkey-puzzle looks on the faces of anti-abortion protesters when the filmmaker hits them with the question “If abortions should be illegal, what punishment should be imposed on the women who have them?” Most if not all of the interviewees are experienced at making nuisances of themselves in the name of a grand moral cause; none, clearly, are similarly experienced at unassisted moral reflection. I will never understand how the interviewee who answers the question “It’s kinda between a woman and her God” and the one who says “I leave that to society to decide” managed not to blush to death. Most certainly they didn’t skulk off home and leave the patients of that clinic alone.

At Slate.com yesterday, William Saletan updated the comedy of the pro-life double standard with a dark twist, pointing out that the State of Virginia defines dilation-and-extraction abortions as felony infanticide but exempts from prosecution the women who order, pay for, and benefit from such procedures. The law in question was the work of Governor Bob McDonell, who has refused executive clemency to a condemned murderess in an analogous situation.

Although [Teresa] Lewis didn’t pull the trigger, the governor observed, she “paid for the firearms” and “intentionally left a rear door to their home unlocked” so that her co-conspirators could commit the murders. For this, she will die.

Like other conservatives, McDonnell believes that the taking of human life, even by proxy, must be gravely punished. And like other abortion opponents, he claims that the right to life “applies to every American—born and unborn.” Yet every day, thousands of women do to their fetuses what Lewis did to her stepson. They pay to get rid of an unwanted life, and they provide access to the victim. What punishment does McDonnell propose for these women? Absolutely nothing.

Saletan does not raise the question, as he might have, why abortionists should be charged with infanticide rather than homicide. Surely this rather blunts the “message” the law is intended to convey? Indeed, one might ask how, if gametes are entitled to the full protection of the law the moment they are joined, our noble Christian forefathers ever arrived at such a concept as “infanticide”, which introduces one of those odious distinctions between life and life.

The technical answer is that, in traditional Christian civilizations which happily hanged swine thieves and counterfeiters, experience taught the magistrates that babies were sometimes discarded or destroyed by frantic, unbalanced postpartum women seeking to conceal evidence of sexual misconduct. (History’s joke on pro-lifers is that the law, in a more theocratic era, was obviously more concerned with policing that “misconduct” than it was with the life of any infant—much less a fetus.) In such an environment, “pray for the poor distracted women rather than punishing them” was really a strong argument—much stronger than it could possibly be in our libertine, egalitarian age.

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  • GreatWallsofFire

    "Just because one does not consider the potential for life to be on par with an existing life, doesn't mean we don't respect the awesome potential or the implications about the nature of our reality that the existence of such potential represents."

    Shame your respect for the awesome potential doesnt manifest in even a scintilla of legal protection in any form. The treehouse I built for my kids is subject to greater legal protection in current Cdn society than that bunch of cells with awesome potential.

    Getting back to the original

    • Phil_King

      I don't understand the argument in favour of legal provisions of any sort. How would that even work?

      "Sorry maam, but you can't have an abortion because we don't consider you to have the appropriate respect for the awesome potential of procreation"???

      Not everything is about legality. In fact I'd argue that laws exist mostly as a function of maintaining peace and order, not forwarding easily debatable moral positions.

      But that's hardly the only aspect of society that matters. There's also societal messaging that individual groups can take up the cause to promote.

      Unfortunately I've yet to see a website or speak with someone from the anti-abortion camp who can forward a cogent argument without reverting to hyperbole and the misrepresentation of fact. They all seem to lean on the visceral crutch and this drives the majority away. It mirrors the debate on "god" in this manner, and makes most people disregard the good points they could make and undermines the intelligent debate we could otherwise have.

      • GreatWallsofFire

        "I don't understand the argument in favour of legal provisions of any sort. How would that even work?"

        The same way that competing rights are balanced today. Examples pop up virtually every month. I have a right to my religious beliefs, which tenets include considering homosexual activity to be a sin, you (though not necessarily "you", PK) have a right not to face discrimination because you engage in homosexual activity – there you go, two rights to be balanced. In current Cdn law, there's nothing to be balanced because there is only one right – that of the woman to undergo an abortion. In essentially every other western democracy, there is some recognition, however limited or fleeting, of the rights of the unborn. Look to one of those countries to see "how would that even work".

        "Not everything is about legality. In fact I'd argue that laws exist mostly as a function of maintaining peace and order, not forwarding easily debatable moral positions."

        The web comment equivalent of "I'm losing, so I'm taking my ball and going home".

        "Unfortunately I've yet to see a website or speak with someone from the anti-abortion camp who can forward a cogent argument without reverting to hyperbole and the misrepresentation of fact. They all seem to lean on the visceral crutch and this drives the majority away.."

        I plead guilty to the hyperbole part, but challenge you on the misrepresentation of fact part. And in terms of the "visceral crutch", by all means enlighten us as to how to talk about the act of slicing apart a fetus or boiling it to death in saline solution less viscerally.

        • Phil_King

          Well then you should be happy with the status quo.

          You have the right to believe that abortion is murder, the right to be offensive to those who disagree and have the right to demonstrate and advocate for that point of view. Meanwhile women have the right to control their own bodies and decide whether they wish to be mothers.

          There you go, two rights balanced.

          I'm glad we had this talk. LOL

          • GreatWallsofFire

            You're forgetting the third right, but then math has never been your strength.

    • lgarvin

      You can't protect the fetus legally because any protections are de facto encroachments on the human rights of the woman who bears that fetus. There is no argument about this, it is simple logic.

      It's a tragedy when a potential human life is snuffed out, but it's a necessary tragedy and all the breast-beating and brow-beating in the world changes nothing. It is wasted effort. If you want to save unborn children, offer to feed, house, clothe, pay and protect distressed pregnant women until they deliver their babies and then raise those babies as your own. And God bless you for that…

      But arguing about it on the internet? You are so far from serious about saving the unborn that you ought to be ashamed to claim it as your cause.

      • GreatWallsofFire

        "You can't protect the fetus legally because any protections are de facto encroachments on the human rights of the woman who bears that fetus. There is no argument about this, it is simple logic"

        See above re: balancing competing rights.

        "It's a tragedy when a potential human life is snuffed out, but it's a necessary tragedy and all the breast-beating and brow-beating in the world changes nothing. It is wasted effort. If you want to save unborn children, offer to feed, house, clothe, pay and protect distressed pregnant women until they deliver their babies and then raise those babies as your own. And God bless you for that… "

        See above re: "taking ball and going home", although I detect some of that "common ground" so many here are pleading for – I agree it is a "tragedy", but not a "necessary tragedy" in the vast majority of cases and I agree there should be more offering to feed, house, clothe, pay and protect distressed pregnant women – I suspect, though, that you and I will disagree as to what percentage of the total number of pregnant women getting abortions are "distressed" and/or require the offered benevolence as a result of being pregnant.

        "But arguing about it on the internet? You are so far from serious about saving the unborn that you ought to be ashamed to claim it as your cause."

        You, of course, are utterly clueless as to what else I do to "save the unborn", although I'd wager it's considerably more than the likes of you do to make abortion as "rare" as you all proclaim you wish it to be.

        • lgarvin

          See above re: balancing competing rights.

          There are no rights to be balanced. There are rights on one hand and wishs on the other. The fetus has no rights and none are forthcoming.

          I suspect, though, that you and I will disagree as to what percentage of the total number of pregnant women getting abortions are "distressed" and/or require the offered benevolence as a result of being pregnant.

          Your judgement about the women is immaterial – as is mine – it's about saving the unborn, remember? It's odd, though not unexpected, that you want to focus now on which women deserve benevolence and which do not.

          You, of course, are utterly clueless as to what else I do to "save the unborn", although I'd wager it's considerably more than the likes of you do to make abortion as "rare" as you all proclaim you wish it to be.

          You'd lose that wager. Have no doubt about that.

          • GreatWallsofFire

            "There are no rights to be balanced. There are rights on one hand and wishs on the other. The fetus has no rights and none are forthcoming."

            And this statement of the obvious is in response to what argument, exactly – that fetuses shouldn't have rights because they don't have them now and none are forthcoming? Let's try that one the next time the gay agenda hits the court.

            "Your judgement about the women is immaterial – as is mine – it's about saving the unborn, remember? It's odd, though not unexpected, that you want to focus now on which women deserve benevolence and which do not. "

            It is odd that I feel compelled from time to time to address your scribations, but the flesh is weak – you changed the focus to distressed pregnant women, not I.

            "You'd lose that wager. Have no doubt about that."

            So sorry to distract you from your mission. You remain clueless about what I do.

          • lgarvin

            And this statement of the obvious is in response to what argument, exactly

            Your argument… the one about balancing competing rights… made just above. I thought it a little silly myself but at least I troubled to remember it.

            you changed the focus to distressed pregnant women, not I.

            No. I suggested that -if your motive is really to save the unborn – then you should focus your efforts on helping pregnant women to bring their pregnancies to full term and then raise the children you have helped to save. Your response was to quibble with an adjective I had used. People will begin to think you are not serious about the issue.

            You remain clueless about what I do.

            Yes, blissfully so… Whatever it is you do, I trust you do it better than you gamble.

      • http://heyitsjustablogman.blogspot.com/ Ted

        The woman with the child has all of her human rights intact. She chose toparticipate in the activity that causes reproduction, and it is her resonsibility to follow through to it's logical conclusion.

        It's all about the reproductive system, and we all know what that means. The "Right to Choose", occurs when you decide to copulate or not. If you choose to reproduce, you are on the hook for the next 25 years or so, and so is the father. Being responsible for a new human being, means respecting that new persons human rights. Killing them does not fulfill that obligation.

    • http://heyitsjustablogman.blogspot.com/ Ted

      I see the word "potential" bandied about here like it's relevant. A fertilized human egg is a being, that is nothing less than human. A human being. A sperm and an egg are a potential human being, but once joined, they are no longer potential, but actual. The use of the word "potential" is false and constitutes nothing more than a red herring argument, which is the common tactic used when there is no valid assertoin to use in debate.

      • Bob

        You need to look up the definition of "red herring argument"…

        Regardless, you're spouting an opinion. If you think a fertilized egg and a human being are one and the same, fine. Your opinion doesn't override that of others, and not just because you're wrong.

  • GreatWallsofFire

    Getting back to the original proposition – that pro-lfers are "haunted" by the issue of sanctions for women who undergo abortions – this haunts me not at all. If one's position is that an abortion is the moral equivalent of a homicide, then the sanction should be the same sanction as applies to other homicides. Currently in Canada, the sanctions that apply to homicides range from "nothing" to "life imprisonment with no chance of parol". I am quite comfortable with the sanction for abortion being somewhere within that range.

  • Ted

    The question is moot, because the correct answer already exists within the Canadian Legal System. The correct answer is found in the Criminal Code of Canada, Section 235.

    Punishment for murder
    235. (1) Every one who commits first degree murder or second degree murder is guilty of an indictable offence and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life.

    This is applicable to abortion because the wilful act of abortion fulfils the requirements for a murder conviction under Section 229 of the same Act.

    • Bob

      Actually, it's not, since Section 229 specifies very clearly that murder is the killing of a "human being" – a fetus is only a potential human being. Thanks for playing though.

      • Ted

        A "potential" human being is an egg and a sperm before they unite. Once united, they are a human being. Game Set Match.

  • http://denisspaceeh.spaces.live.com/ Denis

    Teresa Lewis murdered two adults…It is NOT analagous to abortion!

  • James Kabala

    Check out your American counterpart:

    Time's cover headline this week (probably written by a pro-choicer, and if not, certainly having had to make its way through a heavily pro-choice editorial chain of command) says "How the FIRST nine months shape the REST OF your life" (my emphasis). But yeah, it's the pro-lifers who are faking it.

  • butters424344

    The only reason Colby gets 'humour' out of this is that the culture has fallen behind pro-lifers and both Colby and the prolifers know it. Once the culture becomes pro-life again, there won't be as much hesitation in punishing women as well they should. Once the culture changes, the politics will be possible. I think Colby is being presumptuous to think it is men who'll be clamouring for such punishment. It is women who oppose abortion the most and Colby and other men just want nooky without the consequences. By then, Colby's humour will be dated.

  • Kerry

    we get it. pro-abortion people think babies in the womb have no soul and can just be chopped out if they are inconvenient. pro-life people think that's a sick thing to do. lots of people disagree about this on all sides of the spectrum. what's with the demonization of the others' opinion?

  • John D

    Are you auditioning for Sun TV's new fair-and-balanced News show?

  • Phil_King

    In terms of those who honestly believe that life starts at conception I can sympathize that abortion is difficult to accept. It's not hard to understand, even if one believes, as I do, that this is a visceral rather than logical position.

    Personally I frown on late term "choice" abortions, not because I believe the fetus to be a human being with unalienable rights, but merely because I have respect for the potential it represents, and figure by that point a woman has had more than enough time to consider her options and decide.

    I am not prepared however to make other people abide by my beliefs, because they ARE beliefs and not facts.

    There is a clear link between equality and pro-choice, since it removes societal control from the equation and societies are in large part controlled by men, who do not have such societal controls placed on them.

    The sum of it therefore is that as long as anti-abortionists advocate state control of what most view as a personal decision, they will continue to be "demonized" for it.

  • DerekPearce

    No one is "pro-abortion." To be pro-abortion would mean you want all pregnancies terminated everywhere. There is a reason the term "pro-choice" is used, as we believe this sad, unfortunate CHOICE should still be a woman's right.

  • http://www.invisiblehand.ca/ The Invisible Hand

    People who own or work in abortion clinics make more money if more people have abortions.

    Are they "pro-abortion" in your view?

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