Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

What he would have said

by Aaron Wherry on Monday, October 4, 2010 1:24pm - 0 Comments

This is apparently the text of the speech Imam Zajid Delic would have delivered at the Defence department’s event.

This discussion can contribute to the debate on how Muslims can further engage in, participate in and contribute successfully to Canada and how Canadian policy makers can help in this process of inclusion of almost three percent of Canadians successfully. It should be noted that there is nothing in Islam that commands Muslims to withdraw from their society, or even to become visibly ghettoized, in order to be closer to God.

On the contrary, in order to be in full harmony with their identity, Muslims need to exercise even more vigorously the choice and freedom to practice Islamic teachings in a Canadian context. At the same time, they must consciously develop the Canadian image and pattern of their identity for both the present and future. This is not only their social but an Islamic religious responsibility as well. Therefore, it is critical that the Canadian Muslim leadership and Canada’s policy makers realize that more engagement of Muslims in Canada should be made a priority.

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  • alfanerd

    Emily you have absolutely zero understanding of free speech if you think this guy's free speech was violated.

    It's not about the content of his speech, its the fact that he's a radical islamist, aligned with the muslim brotherhood thats the problem.

    I think this is a wonderful decision by peter mckay.

    its time we stop the racism of low expectations. its not because this guy's a muslim, or whatnot. he's aligned with the muslim brotherhood and that should end it pretty much right there. similarly, a guy who's aligned with the kkk should be stopped from speaking regardless of how cute & fuzzy the content of his speech is.

    • Kevin

      " its the fact that he's a radical islamist, aligned with the muslim brotherhood thats the problem. "

      Source?

      • alfanerd

        http://www.macnet.ca/about-mac.php

        the Muslim Association of Canada was also a sponsor of this event.

        • Holly Stick

          And is there evidence that the Muslim Association of Canada is not a legitimate organization?

          Or are you just assuming that all Muslims are radical islamists?

          • alfanerd

            yes there is, just go into the link i provided, and read the about us section.

            or i guess clicking on a link might be too complex technologically for you, so i'll just cut & paste the relevant part:

            "MAC adopts and strives to implement Islam, as embodied in the Qur'an, and the teachings of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and as understood in its contemporary context by the late Imam, Hassan Albanna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. MAC regards this ideology as the best representation of Islam as delivered by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)."

          • Holly Stick

            And what is so terrible about that?

          • alfanerd

            link to muslim brotherhood. you might as well be linked to al qaeda, or kkk.

          • Holly Stick

            Evidence?

          • alfanerd

            just go and read up on the muslim brotherhood. it's not because you're an ignorant fool that its my responsibility to educate you on every god damned detail of my comment.

          • Holly Stick

            When you call someone a " radical islamist, aligned with the muslim brotherhood" and then refuse to back up your allegations with any supporting evidence, we are left to assume that your allegations are false and that you are a liar and smearer.

          • alfanerd

            He's a speaker at an event sponsored by the muslim brotherhood. That doesnt seem to bother you but that just reflects more on you ignorance than anything else. Im sure if anyone spoke at an event sponsored by the KKK you would be capable of drawing the correct inference.

          • Holly Stick

            What "muslim brotherhood" is that?

          • alfanerd

            hmmm, i dont know, it's THE muslim brotherhood.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_brotherhood

          • Holly Stick

            Wherry's post is talking about an event sponsored by the DND. What event are you talking about?

          • alfanerd

            that event. in the real world, its possible that an event has many sponsors. also, that event was going to happen AT the DND and it was organized by many external orgs, including MAC.

          • Holly Stick

            And are they all evul terr'sts? Or just the ones with brown people?

          • alfanerd

            nice.

            racist: noun, indicates that a lefty idiot has lost an argument against a conservative.

          • Jenn_

            I read the "about us" from top to bottom. Now, what makes you think they are radicalized? I read the section you quoted. As Holly says, what's wrong with that? You seem to think the Muslim Brotherhood is something terrible. Why? I read the Wikipedia entry. Some people who used to be in the Muslim Brotherhood apparently broke away from them and became terrorists. So, because former members such as Osama Bin Laden renounced them for their peaceful ways, you feel justified in considering them violent? And this makes sense to you?

        • LdKitchenersOwn

          So, the Head of the CIC was uninvited because of the fact that the MAC (a totally different organization) mentions the Muslim Brotherhood on their website?

          I don't think it's too much to ask now for a link showing that Delic is a member of the MAC.

          • alfanerd

            MAC sponsors the event. Similarly, if the KKK sponsored any event, I would think it perfectly reasonable, even necessary, that the government disinvite any speaker from that event.

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            But… the event's going forward, isn't it? They didn't cancel the event, they just told Delic that he wasn't invited to speak at it anymore. In your analogy, the KKK sponsored event is still happening, they've just told someone who's not a member of the KKK that he can't speak at the KKK sponsored event.

        • ahm

          I'm not clear on this point, perhaps due to glossing the news on this – this event is being organized by DND and MAC is a sponsor, but what does that have to do with the Imam – he's from CIC, a different organization, aren't they?

    • pdpd

      I'm sorry, but do you have any proof at all of this affiliation with the muslim brotherhood? Or even anything that substantiates the label "radical islamist" in a way that we couldn't say that Stockwell Day is a radical Pentecostal?

      Moreover, totally separate, you might not have heard that exciting things are happening within the muslim brotherhood, which might be undergoing a landmark process of democratic reconciliation with wider Egyptian civil society. But that's a different issue, granted.

      • alfanerd

        in my reply to Kevin, just above your comment. looking forward to "democratic" muslim brotherhood.

        • pdpd

          Without being snarky, it might just be the most important sign of progress yet in the struggle against extremist Islam. The short story is that the older radicals aren't happy with what it's got them, and that they are musing about rejoining mainstream society.

        • pdpd

          Well, I'm torn. On the one hand I'm saddened to hear about this MAC group. They don't look like good news. But I'd certainly like to see more than one speech at a co-sponsored event to indict a guy.

          We can either take a body of determined interfaith and pro-cooperation work, or a single appearance at a single event to make our decision. Given the body of evidence, I can't agree at all with your assessment. It is probably more likely that Delic was engaging an audience he wanted to engage, without agreeing with the tenets of the co-sponsoring group.

          I do, however, understand how you came to your finding. And I appreciate your providing the source.

    • Emily

      He was invited….and then uninvited…by a minister of the crown… based on something he supposedly said in the past.

      That is a violation of free speech, and not acceptable in Canada.

      And should certainly NEVER be acceptable to the party that has screamed about 'free speech' and 'political correctness' for years.

      • alfanerd

        "He was invited….and then uninvited…by a minister of the crown… based on something he supposedly said in the past.

        That is a violation of free speech, and not acceptable in Canada."

        Again, you have ZERO understanding of what free speech is. But its funny to see you try and make this a free speech issue.

        • Emily

          I know exactly what free speech is….and it, along with freedom of association….is a charter protected right for all Canadians.

          Ministers of the crown…or anyone….has no right to forbid it.

          • alfanerd

            yes genius, and the minister of the crown…or anyone…DID NOT forbid it. this guys is entirely free to spew his taqqiya as he sees fit. BUT, he's no more entitled than you or I to give a freaking speech at DND. Do you understand the nuance, you legal genius you?

          • Orson Bean

            Emily, you're betraying a shocking ignorance of what our free speech rights are under the Charter. If someone invites me to speak at an event, and then de-invites me, my free speech rights have not been violated. And that's because I had no "right", Charter or otherwise, to attend or speak at the event in the first place. The invitee is invited to the event at the pleasure and discretion of the inviter.

            I don't have the Charter-protected right to attend and speak at an event organized by other people. Nor do you. Nor do any of us. If my neighbour is having a dinner party, I don't have a Charter right to attend and speak at it.

            I don't agree with what the government did here, but you shouldn't go asserting Charter rights and violations that simply don't exist.

          • Emily

            The only shocking thing on here is the number of people drinking blue kool-aid and expecting others to agree with them.

            Free speech is a straight forward concept….we either have it or we don't. Nibbling at it is dangerous.

            An invitiation extended….and then withdrawn ….on the basis that someone….a temporary politician…. in govt disagrees with something you said….is a clear violation of free speech rights.

          • Orson Bean

            I guess it depends on whether you mean that in the legal sense or not. All I'm saying is, in terms of Canadian law, the man's Charter rights have not been violated, however much you might disagree with what the government did here (and I do). He had no Charter-enforceable right to attend, or to be invited to, this event in the first place. Ergo, on being de-invited, no Charter-enforceable right was violated.

            Or are you claiming that this guy had a Charter-enforceable right to be invited to, and attend, the event?

          • Crit_Reasoning

            I'll assume from the uncharacteristic lack of a response that Emily learned something new today. Congratulations, Bean!

          • Holly Stick

            Do you two feel any concern about the fact that the DND is treating a Muslim Canadian like something less than a Canadian citizen? Essentially implying that the CIC is durned nearly a terr'ist org? Did they learn nothing form their George Galloway fiasco?

          • Orson Bean

            If you would have read my post above, you would have seen that I have stated that I disagreed with the government's decision here.

          • Holly Stick

            Yes, I did see that, and I actually agree that it is important to distinguish whether or not something is a violation of the Charter right of freedom of expression.

            But it is even more important to point out that Mackay has acted as an unprincipled coward in this matter, and that he and Harper are letting religious bigots lead them around by the nose, which is absolutely unacceptable in people who are leading the Government of Canada.

          • Orson Bean

            Pretty much everything I've read about McVety indicates to me that he's an obnoxious knob of the highest order. I don't feel any more comfortable than you do that this guy has the government's ear.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            Holly, my first instinct is to disagree with the decision to disinvite Imam Zajid Delic from the speech, especially after reading the innocuous text of the speech that Wherry posted above. I know almost nothing about the man, CIC, or the "Muslim Brotherhood", but at first glance I don't see anything that would indicate unsavoury affiliations.

            If he was an extremist cleric, or if he had a history of antisemitic statements, then I can see why he should be disinvited. But Imam Zajid Delic comes across as a moderate with a positive message, so not only does it make no sense to disinvite him, it sends the wrong message.

          • Holly Stick

            The message is that the Harper government agrees with the bigotted attitudes of people like Charles McVety, Harper's good buddy:
            http://stageleft.blogspot.com/2010/10/guilt-by-as…
            http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2010/10/in-which…

          • Holly Stick
    • LdKitchenersOwn

      I don't think someone who's aligned with the KKK should be stopped from speaking (though not inviting said person to a government event would be acceptable).

      I'll also need more than your word for me to believe that Delic is a "radical Islamist" or that he's "aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood".

      • alfanerd

        Again, that's been provided above in response to Kevin's question. I think if someone was even loosely associated with the KKK, and the government had previously invited that person for speaking, then a disinvite is the only acceptable solution for the government.

        • Emily

          Your 'info' is BS from the wacko 'Canada free press' crowd.
          http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2828…

          McVety is a member of that nutbar crowd

          • Holly Stick

            Why should the government let religious bigots like McVety tell it who can and cannot speak at a function?

          • alfanerd

            it's not. its applying a basic smell test.

          • Holly Stick

            Your nose doesn't work. Maybe it's getting too long.

          • alfanerd

            you're the ignorant (see above comments by you) who doesnt even know anything about the muslim brotherhood. so until you get a basic education about the subject matter being discussed, i humbly suggest that you STFU and stop insulting people who know orders of magnitude more than you.

          • Holly Stick

            I know enough not to believe anything you write.

          • alfanerd

            that's fine. i hope you know enough to actually check on the muslim brotherhood and figure out what they are on your own.

          • john g

            Why should the government let religious bigots like McVety tell it who can and cannot speak at a function?

            Indeed. You've almost got it. Now once you realize that the government doesn't have to listen to you or Emily tell them who can and cannot speak at a function either, we're there!

          • Holly Stick

            Do you feel any concern about Harper imposing his narrow religious beliefs upon the government of Canada?

  • john g

    It is truly disappointing to see how few people in this country seem to understand what freedom of speech actually means.

    Freedom of Speech does not mean I have an obligation to invite or fund the speaker to make a speech at my expense or using my facilities.

    • Emily

      He was invited to speak….and then a minister of the crown uninvited him.

      • john g

        So? If he wants to speak, he can make his speech anywhere else he chooses. Freedom of Speech does not mean free access to government resources. Invitation is irrelevant.

        • Emily

          That's not the point, and you know it.

          The invitation is entirely relevant.

          • alfanerd

            geez emily you're such a legal scholar. care to show me a charter case in which being uninvited was deemed a violation of free speech rights?

            you're confusing the privilege to a particular forum with freedom of speech. same mistake made by the islamist morons who tried to sue macleans.

  • Emily
    • alfanerd

      agreed. start with "freedom of speech and why buddy-boy Delic is not entitled to speak anywhere he wants to"

      • Emily

        He's not 'buddy-boy'….he's an Iman.

        And he was invited…and then forbidden ….to speak

        And you read neither of the items.

        • alfanerd

          Imam with a capital I? Didnt know you were a muslim Emily. Do you show such deference to priests as well? How is it typing under that burka?

  • Holly Stick

    I'll repeat this comment from a different post:

    Note which country he comes from. Note that our military fought in that country:

    "…Zijad Delic shares an intimate and haunted history with members of the institution he would have addressed if Peter Mackay hadn't prevented him from doing so. With these members, he is also a living witness to the ultimate outcome of the politics of division. Mr. Delic's country vanished in blood.

    The mollycoddled little monstrosities we call Peter Mackay, Stephen Harper and Charles McVety could not level a greater insult to both Mr Delic and those members of the Canadian Forces who tried to save his country…"
    http://thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com/2010/10/ou…

    • Jan

      McVety wags the dog, once again.

  • danR

    Alienate Muslims willing to DE-radicalize the CIC.

    Does Mr. McKay wish to bring the war home?

    Do we ban Christian moderates because their brothers in Christ supported, and did, bombing of abortion places?

  • Shawn Katz

    Alfanerd,
    I have lived in Egypt. I can assure you my knowledge on the Muslim Brotherhood is planes above yours. I can also assure you that your view of them as "equivalent to the KKK" is many things – radical, unfounded, simplistic, juvenile, biased, myopic, unsophisticated, Eurocentric – but anything near "correct", I'm afraid it is not.

    Surely, they have a fringe among them, one proning violnce. But they also possess a mainstream – the dominant stream – which has renounced violence and run democratic campaigns challenging the authoritarian Mubarak regime and demanding greater rights. They help fund education in poor areas of Cairo where the US-backed dictatorship dares not tread.

    Secondly, and most importantly, your adolescent tendency to haul out kindergarten epithets the moment someone challenges your argument is both tiring and unbecoming. More crucially, you look like a fool.

    Grow up.

    • Rosepetals

      In Egypt, Christians makeup roughly ten percent of the population, yet they remain a marginalized religious minority on account of being governed by Islamic Shariah law, a principle source of Egypt’s legislation (Article 2 of the Constitution). Even though it is stated in the Egyptian Constitution that, “The State shall guarantee the freedom of belief and the freedom of practice of religious rites (Article 46),” (8) in practice, it severely violates religious freedom. As of 2008, Christians held less than two percent of parliament seats in Egypt’s People’s Assembly and Shura Council. With little political power, the Christian community is left vulnerable to discrimination and oppression, incapable of defending themselves against even the most apparent and fundamental human rights abuses. Hmmmmmmmm

      • Holly Stick

        If you are going to cut and paste something, link to your source. Otherwise it looks like you are plagiarizing.

  • Rosepetals

    I say BRAVO Peter McKay, finally someone who isn't being a politically correct moron. I think there are many Canadians today that are growing real weary of the whole politically scene.

    • Rosepetals

      I meant to say: I think there are many Canadians today that are growing real weary of the whole politically correct scene.

      • Holly Stick

        While many more are fed up with bigots, racists and liars infesting the internet and real life.

  • Emily

    What a pity we no longer have free speech in this country.

  • parliament_nil

    What a radical! Send 'im to Gitmo, right Toews?

  • West Coast Nuck

    From the CoRF (Charter of Rights and Freedoms)

    FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS.

    2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

    (a) freedom of conscience and religion;
    (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
    (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
    (d) freedom of association.

    Any Questions?

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