Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

The Commons: A keen eye for the lowest common denominator

by Aaron Wherry on Tuesday, October 5, 2010 6:58pm - 0 Comments

The Scene. The Liberals appeared in a fine mood this afternoon. Up and down they went in unison. They applauded when their leader stood, in keeping with tradition, but they applauded too when he’d finished. They were on their feet again when he finished his second question, and then once more when he’d finished his third.

And it was not merely for the exercise. Indeed, today the Liberal side had this morning managed to announce something that sounded like a plan, a promise even of what they might do were they to one day again win the right to govern. They had successfully stated a position, clearly articulated an intention. Here they were, taking a stand. And so here they stood—to demonstrate their pride, or at least to reassure each other that theirs was a good idea and in no way could this, unlike most everything else they’ve tried this decade, possibly turn badly.

Across the way though sat the Prime Minister. And in his sharp mind the Liberals surely knew a withering retort—of the sort that would eviscerate all of their carefully made plans—resided.

When Michael Ignatieff rose first to report that he’d visited a family across the river in Gatineau this morning, there were merely groans from the government side. Mike, Mr. Ignatieff reported en français, had cancer. Helen, his wife, had made various sacrifices to care for him. Why, Mr. Ignatieff wondered, did the government side insist on reducing corporate tax rates when such families were in need?

Up came the Prime Minister to recall simply enough that Liberal governments of the past had promised to provide sufficient home care without success, and to claim that all the Liberals had done was raise taxes and all they would ever do is raise taxes.

Undaunted, Mr. Ignatieff returned to his feet and to his point. “Mr. Speaker, Mike has been suffering with cancer for five years. Helen has given up all her vacation time to care for him,” he said. “Does the Prime Minister not understand that when the minister gets up and says that Helen should take more vacation time to look after him, what she fails to understand is that Helen has exhausted all her vacation time and that it is an insult to talk to her this way?”

Here he gestured to Human Resources Minister Diane Finley seated along the government’s frontbench. From there, Ms. Finley loudly objected to the Liberal leader’s interpretation of her earlier remarks to reporters.

“Does he understand,” Mr. Ignatieff finished, “that he is letting these families down?”

Mr. Harper returned to his own feet and to his own points, adding in this case the contention that a Liberal opposition that has dutifully not felled this government over the last five years has still not been sufficiently supportive of the government’s family friendly policies.

Mr. Ignatieff would give it one more try, explaining the parameters of his proposal, explaining how it might be paid for and rhetorically wondering if the government might explain its priorities to “hard-working families like Helen and Mike.”

The Prime Minister here was finally afforded the opportunity he’d been waiting for, a chance to deliver the last and definitive word on the matter. And so here he summoned the full stature of his office, all of the credibility, trust and capital he has earned these last few years, to pronounce on this matter of public policy as it pertains to the fate, future and welfare of the nation and to reassure the nation of his government’s righteousness and responsibility.

“I wish the Liberal Party would actually get its messages right,” he lamented, holding in his hand a copy of the opposition’s policy pamphlet. “I look at this brochure where on page six the Liberals talk about health care and on page four they promote somebody smoking.”

And lo, it was true. There in the hand of a man—a man relaxing outdoors with his elderly parents or in-laws—was indeed what looked to be a cigarette.

An hour later, the Liberals had carefully removed the offending object from the image. But by then, ’twas too late. The Prime Minister’s point had been made: whatever concern the Liberals may claim, whatever promises they may make, whatever solutions they propose, whatever flaw in his side they may detect, here is a party that cannot be trusted to edit the photos in its brochures smartly enough to avoid his ridicule.

Amid all else, Mr. Harper had once more identified the precise point of the matter at hand.

The Stats. Access to information, eight questions. Home care, five questions. Afghanistan, Nigel Wright and trade, four questions each. Foreign investment and the census, three questions each. Infrastructure, veterans and Zajid Delic, two questions each. Crime, immigration, labour and taxation, one question each.

John Baird, 11 answers. Peter MacKay, six answers. Stephen Harper and Tony Clement, five answers each. Tony Clement, four answers. Diane Finley, Denis Lebel and Jean-Pierre Blackburn, two answers each. Rob Nicholson, Jason Kenney, Lisa Raitt and Jim Flaherty, one answer each.

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  • Patchouli

    Oh, Aaron: once again the prime minister has shown himself to be a dickwad. I can't believe the Libs let that slip through — but people who smoke have families too, in addition to their addiction.

    • Blacktop

      Not really. Non smoking is the prime call to preventative health. It shows him or his staff very astute.

      • MostlyCivil

        How dare they depict reality on a brochure!

        Why, that more than eliminates any possible good their plan will do.

    • hollinm

      Who is the dickwad my friend. It is the Liberal leader and his party who cannot shoot straight. Perhaps if the guy in the photo didn't waste money on smoking he could afford to look after his elderly parents….sarcasm intended.

      • Mike T.

        I dare Stephen Harper to say this himself and not through an internet troll.

        Come on, I dare ya. I double dare ya!

  • Orson Bean

    So is Iggy planning to visit a different family with a sick, elderly relative every day between now and the next election? And then tell us about it the next day?

    That's kinda morbid.

    • Ariadne

      I thought only lawyers go ambulance and hospital hopping, guess not huh? Which one to visit next, funeral houses?

    • Mike T.

      It would be pretty morbid.

      So I guess that isn't his plan.

      Neat, eh?

  • bill_y

    this is a no brainer – liberals win the day and conservatives look bad.

    Oh, and did I get this right – "let them take their vacation leave" was the official government response?

    • John D

      Well, can't they just prorogue their jobs?

      • Mike T.

        I would not be surprised if that were used in the next debate. Heh.

  • Emily

    Wow…Harper sure lost that one in a hurry!

  • RadRacer

    Ugh. Never again will I vote Conservative.

    • Ceeger

      Yeah, as if you ever have voted for them in the past.

      • burlivespipe

        You may be right — radracer does come across as someone who'd do the responsible thing and avoid dickwads…

      • D.D.S

        I have voted for Harper ……..sad to say………but that is a mistake I can rectify….and soon I hope…….the man spends like a drunken sailor

  • gottabesaid

    The Conservative approach is that a good offence makes the best defence. And whether you like 'em or not, it has been pretty effective for them.

  • bennji1977

    Must say, it is nice to hear a policy proposed that is actually anchored in a basis of reality and aims to address an immediate problem.

    • hollinm

      A couple of problems with the whole thing. Homecare is provincial jurisdiction and the funding of the program is suspect. Eliminating a tax reduction does not generate a like amount of tax revenue. Ignatieff is probably very short on the costs of the program and how he will fund it.

      • Mike T.

        Class, can anyone help out poor poor hollinm here?

      • tobyornotoby

        EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

        iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

        !!!!!

      • brooster

        Actually, hollinm, you and I had an earlier exchange in which we had discussed this as a health care issue, hence provincial in jurisdiction. However, on further reflection, it doesn't directly provide or subsidize a health service, it provides income maintenance for a family member engaged in care-giving.

        Since the feds provide other forms of income security, that would put it squarely in their arena, it seems to me.

        • Blacktop

          But not through EI a fund intenended for unemployment not a paid time off to look after somebody. It would be interested how the Libs would fund the staff necessary for accountability in this case a la ei when the recipient was skiing in Colorado. Many here seem to be ignorant of administrative and accountability requirements.

          • kay

            My understanding is that it's pretty much impossible for someone to receive EI benefits while outside of the country, without getting caught. EI & Immigration talk to each other nowadays.

          • brooster

            Agreed…EI isn't the best vehicle for meeting these diverse income maintenance issues, but the approach is consistent with other applications of EI, most obviously parental leave. As I've argued elsewhere, the whole issue of income security cries out for massive overhaul.

            I've no idea what your comment about skiing in Colorado refers to.

        • Blacktop

          It is not federal money. It is contributed by employee and employer for the puirposes of easing unemployment, not as a means of income distribution for health purposes. Some people here should take a few courses in public admin.

  • Crit_Reasoning

    Just in case anyone wants to see the smoking picture:
    https://gritchik.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/smoke-e…

    • danby

      Maybe it's medical marijuana?

    • Blacktop

      AH ah, a hidden ethic component, not unusual for the libes.

  • Stewart_Smith

    I have to give the PMO some kudos for this one. (Attaboy Dimitri!) However, I am curious what the long term Conservative talking point is going to be on this issue. I would note two things. One, the Conservatives have not actually attacked this position yet at least not in any substantive way. My guess is that they are legitimately caught off guard but perhaps not. In any case, it will be interesting (and more than a little bizarre) if they co-opt this proposal, take the political hit and remove it from the election. Certainly not Harper's style, but then Harper's style is often to be surprising.

    The second (as others have noted) is that this could actually have been a policy proposed by this government. Indeed, if the Liberals had announced a grand proposal for massive investment in aged care facilities then a counter proposal to help look after gramps at home would almost be expected by the Conservatives. Also, while I applaud the direction, Ignatieff's proposal isn't large enough to address the problem. It is much like the Conservatives "tough on crime" proposals, it whittles away at the edges of the problem rather than facing it square on.

    Still it seems Iggy has found a political differentiator that puts the compassion he wants on display without breaking any banks. The Conservatives will need to be wary, given they have no initiatives in the area. As a result, any attacks on this policy will no doubt be spun as an attack on the sick and elderly by the Liberals.

    • Crit_Reasoning

      As a result, any attacks on this policy will no doubt be spun as an attack on the sick and elderly by the Liberals.

      Not only that: Any suggestion that the status quo is adequate will be spun as a personal insult to [insert sick person's name here] and [insert caregiver's name here].

      • Orson Bean

        Agreed with Stewart and CR — it's good politics by the Liberals. And it's classic retail politics for sure, so in that sense a page out of Harper's playbook. That's the ironic part.

        If I were Harper I would just steal the idea and be done with it, but he seems to be too personality disordered to be able to ever admit that the opposition is right about anything, or that the opposition has ever had a good idea. Plan B would be to come up with an alternative suggestion, but other than some humungous new program — which would seem anathema to Harper's instincts — I can't think of a viable comparable alternative.

        • Mike T.

          On the other hand, he claims perfectly capable of stealing it, then looking voters straight in the eye and saying it was a CPC to begin with.

          • Napolean was for the windmall all along!

        • Blacktop

          It's nonsense, Orson. It's unsustainable as a policy and I am sure that the Auditor general would call itg a misuse of EI funds.

    • danby

      Hmmmm….. and seniors vote

      • Orson Bean

        Yes, and as anyone who's ever been involved in politics at the organizational and campaign level knows, seniors also comprise an inordinate percentage of party members and campaign workers (because they have the one thing the rest of us tend not to have, i.e., tons of free time).

      • Blacktop

        You better believe it.

  • Richard_S_Argent

    Is it just me or is it literally impossible to hear/read the name Dimitri and not think of Dr. Strangelove?

    • BCer in Mtl

      Naw, I still think of the guy who used to shill Leather jackets in Montreal.

      In fact, I would give favourable odds that Dimitri Soudas actually bought a jacket from Cuirs Dimitri

      • BCer in Mtl

        But when I actually see and hear Dimitri Soudas, I am reminded of George Costanza.

        Short, stocky, balding and a master of mendacity and fabrication. Someone should check his employment history to see if he worked for the Expos before they moved.

    • brooster

      Then, who was Giorno…Svengali?

  • LaxAtlDfwYow

    Count me as unimpressed with the Liberal proposal/trial balloon. First, the economic situation in in this country is at best teetering. The federal deficit position is lousy and the fiscal position of the main economic engine provinces are (save AB) absymal. The economies of our major trading partners are in yet worse condition.

    Now is not the time to be launching massive new social programs requiring billions more in federal spending.

    I'm not even sure the proposal would make a decent election differentiator. It's easily co-opted by the CPC or attacked on fiscal grounds.

    Nah, not impressed.

    • Emily

      Funny…Cons think it's time to buy fighterplanes and put up prisons for unreported crimes tho.

      • LaxAtlDfwYow

        Both of which may be even more mis-timed than the Lib proposal.

        But "they're spending billions, so why can't we?" is no more legitimate coming from the mouths of Libs than Cons.

        • Emily

          Well the prisons and fighterplanes were announced well after we knew the economy was in the dumpster, and also after we knew about the huge deficit.

          Iggy's plan simply uses money from denyinng corporate tax breaks.

          • LaxAtlDfwYow

            …simply uses money from denyinng [sic]corporate tax breaks.

            Again, just because the Cons make such arguments, doesn't turn billions into pennies. Billions are billions and it all comes from we taxpayers. It just disingenuous to suggest that new programs don't cost anything because you say you'll get the money from not doing something.

          • Emily

            Do you know what a drop in govt revenues a tax cut is?

          • Jan

            Start researching the cost of assisted living and extended care units. This is a need that needs to be addressed one way or another.

          • Ceeger

            Actually Emily, the Conservatives' corporate tax cuts take effect Jan. 1, 2011. So unless the Libs grow a set and pull the plug on Parliament to force an election before the Christmas break, then the Liberals will indeed have to hike up taxes again in order to pay for their platform. There is no option for 'denying' the corporate tax breaks, as you say; they will already have taken effect by Jan. 1.
            Oh, and the Liberals voted in favour of those same corporate tax cuts that they now say they'll cut when they supported the Conservatives' 2010 budget in the House.
            More Liberal hypocrisy. It just gets deeper and thicker.

          • Emily

            You know of course there is more than one corporate tax cut scheduled….for different times

          • Ceeger

            Right – but the first $1.5 Billion corporate tax cut is on Jan. 1.
            And the Liberal home-care plan is a new $1 B annual expenditure (to start with, before the unions become entrenched).
            So you're a half-billion behind the eight-ball to start, even in the unlikely event that the Liberals win the next election.
            The Liberals will have to reinstate the taxes to make the money. And the rest of your platform is still pretty much uncosted.
            Liberals will have to raise taxes to pay for their promises. There's just no way around it: http://bit.ly/dba8Hw
            Be honest for once in your life.

          • Emily

            Cancel the fighterplanes….and the prisons.

            Voila

          • Ceeger

            Or, cancel the CBC …and most nanny-state entitlement programs.

            Voila.

            See, that kind of tit-for-tat game could get old very quickly.

          • Emily

            And the military.

            And the Fraser institute

          • Ceeger

            You still playing? I gotta work in the morning. W-O-R-K. Oh, here, this should explain the concept even to a socialist: http://bit.ly/aEn19

          • Richard_S_Argent

            You should sign up for an intense debate account – I'd love to be able to follow you. You have an interesting viewpoint!

          • Emily

            You're doing a paper on neurological disorders?

            Ceeger will demand payment you know.

          • Emily

            Some of us are working right now.

            New thing….called the web….I run a global business on it.

            21st century concept

          • Orson Bean

            Anothjer 21st century concept that Emily supports: having Americans patrol our airspace. Sovereignty is so five minutes ago . . .

        • Jan

          Harper just gave he civil service a raise. Now that's deficit cutting, isn't it?

          • Emily

            Yes….5.3% too!

        • burlivespipe

          Do you know the negative cost of having people leave jobs and taking unpaid leave to care for ailing relatives? Do you know the cost of hospitalizing and housing patients who would be better cared for by a family member? I dare say that this policy is a step in the right direction while a nation of baby boomers wonder what's going to happen to their loved ones, and to themselves, when the pinch comes…
          Harper, meanwhile, is more interested in ridiculing some sloppy optics than dealing with a debate on the issue. Obviously because he forgot to state how the previous Liberal government was the biggest tax cutters in recent history…

          • Blacktop

            Yes but the source of the funding is wrong.

      • Ceeger

        Wouldn't Emily's brain experience a Scanners-like explosion if it ever so happened that her enemy was not the evil 'Cons' she imagines them to be, but rather a straight-thinking Liberal who actually came to his or her senses?
        But, you see, in Emily's twisted partisan world, everyone who dares disagree with the Liberal worldview is a 'Con'. It's her way of coping with her impairment: http://bit.ly/231H1w
        I look forward to the next federal election, when Emily is stunned to learn that enough of her fellow Canadians are actually evil 'Cons' to have given the CPC a majority.

        • Emily

          Honey, I've been PC and Reform and CA, so don't tell me what they're like….or the absurd nonsense that Canadians think anything like that.

          • Ceeger

            Oh, so now I'm 'honey'?
            In an earlier post, Emily was decrying my 'personal stupidity' and 'idiocy'.
            I swear, these Liberals have to learn to stick to their policy announcements.
            It's the reason they don't have their universal day-care program after 13 years of Liberal rule.
            And I bet ratcheting up Canadians' taxes to pay the unions to run a universal home-care program won't fly, either.

          • Emily

            Blew yer mind altogether eh buddy? LOL

          • Ceeger

            Nope, but you sickened my stomach pretty quickly. :-)

          • Emily

            No, I think you were pretty much born sick

          • Ceeger

            Yeah, I thought that was you in the delivery room.

          • Emily

            I really think you ought to take your meds….or cut down on them….whichever one works to end your hallucinations.

            Meantime, the rest of us are discussing home care.

          • Emily

            Here's a thought.

            If someone attacks me, I return the favour.

            You want me to be nice to you? Then be nice to me.

          • hollinm

            You really are a peach. People write a comment and you reply by calling them names. That is your style. You don't like or agree with the comment you attack. Not very becoming for a person who has so much to say about anything and everything.

          • Emily

            No, people attack me instead of addressing the topic.

            Then they shriek and scream if they get a swot back

          • James Connors

            I hate to link to an ESPN site to make this point but I'm not going to look around for a better link to make this point:
            http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/preview2005/news/st…

            Emily, in my view, makes the list. I don't know, really, who she or he is playing for but she or he does have a knack for kicking ass.

          • Emily

            LOL why thank you!

            I'm not playing for anybody…mostly I'm plumping for the future…and I get really fed up with this constant insistence on the past.

            Makes me cranky.

          • Blacktop

            Are you saying, Emily, that you are a "'has been." Welsome to the club after65 we are all has beens, except when somebody wants our vote!

      • Jan

        Or spendt more money on the census, to get degraded results. And you just know there's going to be money going to a certain stadium in Quebec.

      • DPT

        unreported crimes that canadians report that they haven't reported according to statscan

    • brooster

      What's the alternative over the near future (two decades)? Ignore the issue and watch as health care costs explode, because the only options involve much costlier institutional care for an expanding population of elders? Increasingly frequent human interest stories about families collapsing under the stress of care-giving?

      Politically, the issue will resonate because virtually everyone knows (of) a family coping with serious illness or the end-of-life passage.

      The Cons are whistling past the graveyard if they ignore the demographics and the optics on this one.

      • LaxAtlDfwYow

        Fair points. But the Lib proposal is silent on the larger healthcare issue. They've simply proposed to spend more on a new program.

        Stephen Gordon has a nice piece on the phenomenon of politics over policy http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian…

        By all means let's have a comprehensive debate over healthcare policy. But tacking more and more over top of the existing mess is not prudent nor a political winner.

        • Emily

          I don't suppose you could manage to wait for the rest of it?

        • Jan

          It is impossible to have a comprehensive debate with Harper on anything. Get serious.

          • LaxAtlDfwYow

            Don't have to have it w/ PMSH. If the Libs want to do serious policy, then they can put it forward themselves. Instead, today, we just got a plan to spend more billions and hope it makes people vote for them.

            Now, if I thought the proposal was strong enough to displace PMSH, then I might actually consider it. But, as I wrote above, it's likely not. So, bad policy + weak politics = fail.

          • Emily

            Like you've been told….wait for the rest of it.

          • hollinm

            I thought you weren't a Liberal supporter. Hypocrit.

          • Emily

            I'm not….I just know there's more to it, and it can't be judged by pieces of it.

            And you misspelled hypocrite

          • DPT

            was that out of the left side or right side of your mouth

        • brooster

          Totally agree.

          The whole patchwork of income maintenance programs and ad hoc remedies needs to be analyzed and overhauled. As I mentioned in a post elsewhere, the concept of a guaranteed annual income, which first appeared in policy discussions in the '60s, needs to be dusted off and re-examined. It wouldn't supplement (i.e., be added to) the existing array of inadequate programs but would replace them with a formula that supports individuals (or families) through unemployment, re-training, serial career changes/re-locations, parental leaves, compassionate leaves, lifelong learning, vocational disability, etc.

          Properly designed, a new guaranteed annual income formula would be administratively more efficient and contain costs better than the the existing melange of programs, which is obsolete in the 21st century.

          • Emily

            Well we need a massive overhaul on all social programs. The world has changed since they were put into effect, and since they were different programs with different starts for different purposes anyway….the whole thing has become a crazy quilt.

          • LaxAtlDfwYow

            OMG am about to agree w/ Emily? The dissonance… it burns!

          • Emily

            LOL sorry about that!

          • LaxAtlDfwYow

            That's exactly the sort of thing the Libs need to have the courage to undertake. Playing the stupid my-program-is- bigger-than-your-program game is so 80s and so a loser for them.

            Mind you, being bold didn't work out so well for Dion.

          • Emily

            No, we aren't in any kind of political atmosphere to do that kind of thing.

            Dion tried it, and the Cons trashed him. So did the media.

            So the patchwork quilt goes on

          • burlivespipe

            Unfortunately, all parties and the media have made an art of reducing policy pronouncements into pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey events… Harper wouldn't know how to honestly debate policy, while i'd score the other 3 leaders as at least capable of being able to puckhandle inside the lines.
            Dion made a major effort on his green shift to expand on an idea and policy pronouncement. You saw what happened with that, didn't you? If it can't fit into a 15 second sound byte, it isn't worth their time (or so the politicians and media would have us believe)…

      • Emily

        No we need some forward thinking….and we know this demographic is going to hit us hard.

    • John D

      Why would it be co-opted if it's so horrible?

      • LaxAtlDfwYow

        Politics. (1)Co-opt (2) Ignore.

  • Jeet

    Iggy is so outclassed it is like watching a Rhodes scholar playing cerebral tennis with a mental midget.

    • Emily

      You don't know what any of those things are.

      PS you may want to look up Bob Rae and Bill Clinton….under 'education'

    • Mike T.

      Point! 15 love!

      YEAH, WELL YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF A GUY SMOKING!!!!! Ha!

      • Emily

        Well what else can they say? Harper's left them high and dry.

    • NorthernPoV

      Jeet yet?

    • MostlyCivil

      Well, to be fair, more Rhodes scholars choose to study at Oxford and Harvard than choose the University of Calgary, so I'll let you guess which of the two went where.

  • Chipmunk

    I watched Power and Politics on CBC tonight, and interestingly, Tom Flanagan stated that the Conservatives might have to steal that idea.

    Watch for it.

    • Emily

      Which is why the Libs haven't announced their policies and platform…you only get hints of it.

      • chet

        BTW,

        for those trying to figure out how Harper can possibly attack this,

        the answer is simple:

        It's a dishonest proposal.

        Iggy's trying to have it both ways, getting credit for helping the elderly while throwing a billion at it. Get the elderly thinking they're getting something, when a billion for such a program wouldn't even cover basic start up costs.

        And this ad writes itself:

        Iggy offers to walk an old lady across a busy street, takes her two steps into traffic, then leaves her as he turns back and walks away.

        • Richard_S_Argent

          Please please please read up on the actual proposal before you post – it's all I ask!

          • Emily

            It wouldn't make the slightest difference to chet if he memorized it.

            Don't you recognize a Pict when you see one?

          • ColdStanding

            Pict? What is that?

          • Emily

            A tribe of people in Scotland before the Romans came.

            They were known for painting themselves blue….the blue men of the north.

            Cons accomplish the same thing by soaking in blue kool-aid.

          • brooster

            Hey! Don't pick on the Picts…it's an unfair comparison, against which they can't defend themselves.

          • Emily

            Och mon, they're thriving!

          • ColdStanding

            So… he is a Pict because they paint themselves blue and the CPC's colour is blue?? Or am I missing something?

          • Emily

            I repeat:

            'A tribe of people in Scotland before the Romans came.

            They were known for painting themselves blue….the blue men of the north.

            Cons accomplish the same thing by soaking in blue kool-aid.'

          • ColdStanding

            That didn't help. Seems like a mixed metaphor, as someone is said to drink the kool-aid. I know of no cultural reference that involves bathing in kool-aid as an act of either consuming drugs or so completely destroying one's reason as to follow one's leader unto death.

            Nope. Still don't get it.

          • chet

            So if a thirty year old healthy guy wants the check,

            can he get it?

            You see, you'll need to somehow register and keep track of who needs the money.

            Wait. I seem to recall the very basic act of keeping a list of people (who own guns) was suppose to be real easy.

            Except, registering who needs it, is just the first step. Then you have to decide what type of care qualifies, what doesn't, who gets to decide disputes if the claimant disaggrees.

            All of this on a massive scale.

            Try the gun registry times 50.

          • Richard_S_Argent

            I'm guessing you've never had a person in your immediate family with a terminal illness? You need a note from your doctor before you can move forward with a number of programs with the government. Same thing would apply here.

            You apply online for the monthly benefit, send in the doctor's note for proof, and hey presto, you're on the program. Now for a program that is anticipated to help 600,000 people per year, how big a bureaucracy do you think is needed? I'm fairly certain it would be piggy backed onto an existing office and they'd hire a couple more data processors.

            Your depiction of this as some kind of leviathan is nothing but misguided partisan fear-mongering..and you know it.

          • chet

            No one scrutinizes the "note", no regulations as to what constitutes the appropriate need, no body to verify in case the 30 year old tries to get benefits, no dispute mechanism for when the goverment says "no you don't qualify", no employees to administer all of those steps.

            Nope, just "presto", hundreds of thousands of people need it, and the check comes.

            Of course all of these queries are "fear mongering". "Presto" is no doubt, the answer.

          • Emily

            The policy dear man is already in effect.

            Iggy just extended the time limit, and removed the absurd need to guarantee when someone will die.

          • Blacktop

            Nonsense. There is a staff who track down EI offenders. The same principle would have to apply, hence more, much more staff for accountability.

          • Mike T.

            It stands to reason the mechanisms already in place for EI can be modified to meet the new obligations of the program. Probably with far less cost and inefficiency than creating a new structure from scratch.

          • Blacktop

            You don't know what you are talking about Mike T. An incremental increase of cases requieres an incremental incerease in staff.

          • brooster

            Um…he simply made a policy pronouncement. He doesn't need to write the Act, regs and admin. manual for the program. There's a whole bureaucratic infrastructure with experience in handling the EI program. I think they can handle it.

            And, yes, if a 30 year old can document the need to support an ill/dying parent, he qualifies. You're not going to tell me you're envious of him, are you?

          • Richard_S_Argent

            1) Doctor's notes are legally binding, you knew that right? If a doctor writes a fallacious letter they can lose their license. If you really think a doctor will put their career in jeopardy so a 30 year old can bilk the government for the princely sum of $1350 a year, then you're even more paranoid than I thought.
            2) There is only one thing the note would grant the applicant – the monthly cheque (that's a set amount, just like the child care cheque). There's no need for anybody to examine the application and see what they qualify for – they either qualify for the cheque or they don't.
            3) Of course there will have to be a dispute mechanism – I'm guessing it will be the same mechanism that whatever department they add this program onto already has. There is no way that this would be a stand alone department. None.
            4)The other portion of the proposal is an extension of EI benefits from 6 weeks to 6 months – that doesn't require a single extra employee anywhere.

            You're trying to spin something you know nothing about. Just stop.

            —–

            edit: Now that I think about it, there's no reason why the whole proposal won't fall under the purview of EI. chet's objections just became even more nakedly partisan than I had thought!

          • MostlyCivil

            It CAN all fall under what EI already does. It's exactly what they already do for 15 week medical benefits. When you have major emergency surgery, you need a docs note to get that benefit. Not exactly he easiest fraud scheme to try.

          • f4hq

            Might help 600 000 but it hurts 34 million.

          • Richard_S_Argent

            Oh? How do you figure?

            From my viewpoint I see this as being very similar to the $100 UCCB or the CCTB (baby bonus). Have those programs hurt all Canadians?

          • Blacktop

            It is a misuse of EI funds which are not taxpayer money but funds from employer and employee to counteract a loss of jobs. The extension to maternity leave is highly questionable except to those who receive it .
            Tghat's why the ruckus about the Libs stealing 60 billion for other purposes. The issue is very clear except to left wingers who figure the gov can spend EI money on anything.

          • Richard_S_Argent

            Please read my response to your earlier posts – EI falls under the auspices of HRSDC, as does the UCCB. It's not a misuse of EI funds, in fact it would appear to be right in line with many other programs provided by the HRSDC.

      • ex-canuck

        That was profound, Emily.

    • John W.

      Evan Solomon unfortunately went along with the PM's slimy diversion, and centred most of the discussion on the pamphlet when he wasn't playing tapes of Finley's lame response. I have to admit Jane Taber on Power Play actually took the Liberal proposal seriously.

      • Sigh

        Evan Solomon is a complete lightweight.

  • Accountability

    This is the comment made by the Prime Minister of Canada about such a serious situation.
    Leave it to Stephen Harper to take a serious situation and make a joke out of it. He doesn't have answers so it is necessary to put someone down. PATHETIC
    How embarrassing to be so vindictive.
    Surely Canadians expect more of their government than this.
    Pettiness makes a person look so small pitiful and weak.

    • Emily

      Yes, it is.

      And I find it very sad we've been reduced to this level.

      • ex-canuck

        Your level.

  • Geiseric

    This is the sort of crap our Prime Minister wastes his time and ours on. No wonder his Minister's staffers are running rampant. When the dust settles it'll be clear the Liberals have the higher ground on a HUGE issue.

    Anyone who doesn't think the PMO isn't busily ordering up a survey on this at our expense hasn't been paying attention.

  • Phil_King

    Point Blank: If anyone here thinks that this won't be a huge vote getter for the boomers and their parents, they've been dipping into the cooking sherry a tad too often.

    This is obviously a very carefully thought out position, not too much, not too little, doesn't step on provincial jurisdiction etc.

    It's the goldie locks of policy announcements.

    If I were Harper I might be tempted to agree with the Liberals and take a similar position. It would undermine the Liberal's attempt at differentiation and it would allow Harper to appear reasonable and accomodating, which is what he needs to expand his support. There's no shame in agreeing with a good idea, and humility often impresses people far more coming from a guy not known for it.

  • Candace

    The policy is already in place (almost), is it not? Employment Insurance Compassionate Care benefits specify that someone taking this leave is nursing someone with a significant risk of death – doesn't cancer count? And how hard would it be for the gov't to revise the EXISTING plan if it currently eliminates someone like Iggy's friend Mike (and his wife) from accessing it?
    Why didn't Iggy just point THAT existing program out to her?
    Why didn't Aaron or any other journalist google this themselves?
    http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/sc/ei/benefits…

    • Candace

      Oops, scrolled down and see that this policy is the one under question. Apologies.

    • Blacktop

      So it is. My oversight and apologies, although I wonder if the empployers who pay for this agree. I am informed that people who take advantage of this provision often don't return to the same job they left. I personally think it is a misuse of funds.
      But such leave is rather pointless when chronic care can go on for years.

  • chet

    The fantasies that this program would "fall under" EI and thus cost virtually no additional funds,

    different criteria, different people, more work,

    but no additional cost (when just making a simple list cost billions [gun registry]),

    underscores the fantasy world of statism.

    All of these wonderful programs are "free".

    And to say otherwise is "fear mongering".

  • Blacktop

    A lot of nonsense by the left wingers. Although I am not a complete fan of Harper for reasons posted before, he certainly made Iggy look like more of a twit than he really is. Probably poor advice from his handlers. .Anyway, Health is the baikliwick of the Provinces and the Federal role is somewhat limited to research and co-ordination AND of course, financial aid in line with the Rowell-Sirois Commission. Except for Quebec of course who simply want the money passed over without any strings on programs The home care funding used to be part of the Canada Assistance Program for seniors./ I don't know what it is now.

    BUT notice the family concerned was in Quebec! So one should query their policies, not the Federal Government!

  • Orson Bean

    The average voter has no clue about what is or isn't federal vs. provincial jurisdiction. This policy is probably a net winner for the Liberals.

  • MostlyCivil

    Any changes to EI are completely federal. That's what's being proposed.

  • Mike T.

    Allowing additional EI payments for the care of sick relatives is no more an intrusion into provincial jurisdiction than the federal tax breaks for medical treatment in the Income TAx Act.

  • subversible

    Mr. Wherry

    Every week your blogs are infused with more and more colourful language. Have you ever considered writing a novel? You might have more success. For instance, you might have a better chance of using descriptive language that actually describes the scenes which you attempt to recreate. Assuming of course, that you are better at describing the scenes you see in your head than the ones you see with your eyes.

    Or, conversely, you might want to consider a career with the CBC, who of late have been dedicated to establishing political "narratives".

    In any case, please stop poisoning macleans with your thoughtless, meaningless drivel.

  • Emily

    Yer that bitter eh? LOL

  • gottabesaid

    While I'm not going to quibble with your conclusions about Wherry and this article (though I happen to disagree), I would have liked to hear where exactly Wherry went wrong.

  • MostlyCivil

    "In any case, please stop poisoning macleans with your thoughtless, meaningless drivel."

    Kory? How you holding up these days?

  • gottabesaid

    No, I'm not talking about the Conservatives pre-Harper. I'm talking about this crew.

  • LaxAtlDfwYow

    So, for PMSH the LCF is unimaginably onerous, invasive and an assault on Canadians' privacy but a man with a cigarette is too horrible to view.

    Consistent that.

  • Ceeger

    Um, to all of you Liberal apologists out there: If the cigarette-in-a-health-platform-announcement-brochure picture is not a big deal, then why did the Liberals rush to Photoshop out the cigarette within an hour of the P.M. exposing their idiocy?
    http://bit.ly/dAZtOx

  • Emily

    So stupid Cons couldn't divert the conversation….like you're trying to do.

  • http://nottawa.blogspot.com Mark

    Because it's a small deal. Nothing that a little photoshop can't repair.

    Photoshopping staff out of the Minister of Natural Resource's office, and photoshopping that Minister
    out of Question Period altogether – that's what most Canadians might consider a big deal.

  • brooster

    "If the cigarette-in-a-health-platform-announcement-brochure picture is not a big deal, then why did the Liberals rush to Photoshop out the cigarette within an hour of the P.M. exposing their idiocy?"

    Congratulations…I think you just won the award for "most likely to focus on the trivial".

  • Stewart_Smith

    The issue is that most cigarette smokers are conservatives… very embarrassing for the Liberals to be caught with a likely Conservative in their brochure.

  • Ceeger

    So you admit their idiocy was able to divert the conversation, then? Better talk to your party comm people. Their job is to keep Liberal drones like you comfortable within your talking points, after all.

  • Blacktop

    No, any group who were so sloppy in preparation don't deserve any further confidence.

  • DPT

    yes stupid cons, they dared point out the problem, you're the stupid one Emily, but that is no surprise, you do that pretty consistently. But I forget, you're a neutral party right? not left not right just always a, a , an attack dog (bitch) for mike.

  • Jan

    Not well. he just got tagged a loser in a business magazine.

  • Ceeger

    Drone on, 'Emily'. Drone on.: http://bit.ly/caCy9V

  • Emily

    Sorry….not a Liberal.

    Take your meds.

  • Ceeger

    Liberal … raving socialist … psycho: the definitions are pretty much interchangeable in modern-day politics, so let's not split hairs. I just chose Door #1 to describe you, to give you the benefit of the doubt.

  • Emily

    Sorry sweetie…none of those things.

  • Emily

    You are being studiously ignored by the Cons. LOL

  • Ceeger

    Why do Liberal Photoshop misadventures seem so much more, well, misadventurous? http://bit.ly/crY7Ww

  • Ceeger

    Hmmmm

  • Ceeger

    The Liberal Comm shop sure didn't think it was trivial – that had to be the fastest modification of an online pdf I've ever seen. And in record time.
    Some sorry Liberal fartcatcher will be sending resumes to the NDP caucus tomorrow morning, I am sure.

  • Emily

    Your problem is that you assume if someone is not pro-Harper 110% they are automatically Liberal/leftwing/socialist/communist

    However I'm a centrist…and I loathe the left just as much as I loathe the right

    The right would have us living in a church, and the left would have us living in a cave.

    Nah-uh. Don't intend to do either

    I'm socially progressive, fiscally conservative.

  • chet

    Estimated cost one billion.

    Now if we put that through our handy dandy liberal cost equivalent converter, calibrated to the gun registry setting for good measure,

    the real cost should be in the hundreds of billions.

    After the director, deputy director of operations, their co directors, all of their support staff, the administrative body, the administrators for the admistrative body, the cultural sensitivity training for the administrators, cross country "training" junkets ect, ect, ect,

    that very nice lady might get a doller or two for "care" out of that first billion.

  • NiceGuy

    The Lieberals should get together with the 'exploding climate denying evil children' ad people in the UK. They could make an ad about the 'exploding smoking climate change denying' children.

    There's no icon for rolling around on the floor laughing in Maclean's unfortunately….but liberals make me laugh…..

  • hollinm

    We know you hate Harper now show us where you have criticized any of the opposition parties for anything they have done or said. Cat got your tongue Emily.

  • Blacktop

    I think it must have to do with your rejection by the party as emerged from CA to Conservative. It's too hot and heavy to be just the ramblings of an old lady.

  • Richard_S_Argent

    You really didn't read what was proposed did you. One part of the proposal is to extend EI benefits for homecare from 6 weeks to 6 months – not sure where "the director, deputy director of operations, their co directors, all of their support staff, the administrative body, the administrators for the admistrative body, the cultural sensitivity training for the administrators, cross country "training" junkets ect,[sic] ect,[sic] ect,[sic]" would be required for that, do you?

    The second part of the proposal is to send out $100 monthly cheques, much like we currently do for childcare – a program that I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you love. Again, where do you see the inevitable "director, deputy director of operations, their co directors, all of their support staff, the administrative body, the administrators for the admistrative body, the cultural sensitivity training for the administrators, cross country "training" junkets ect,[sic] ect,[sic] ect,[sic]"?

    Please do a favour and read a bit before making assumptions.

  • Emily

    Cost of the fighterplanes plus the prisons?

  • danby

    If it's such a bad idea, why does Tom Flanagan suggest they might want steal it?

  • Emily

    Oh come now hollinm….you've been on here long enough to know I've said repeatedly that I don't like any of the parties, or any of the leaders.

    None of them are suitable for today's world….and it would seem most Canadians agree with me, because none of them are going anywhere in the polls.

  • hollinm

    You are dodging the question. Tell me of one instance where you have criticized Ignatieff, Layton and Duceppe. One for each will suffice.

  • chet

    yeah the gun registry was nice and easy pleasy too.

    Just checks. They don't even need to figure out who gets them, who administers it. Nothing. No employees need to do that. No supervisors need to train and manage those employees.

    Nope. The checks just go out.

    By liberal check giving unicorns.

  • Blacktop

    ëxtend from 6 weeks for 6 months" apart from my other objections, old age health problems are usually permanent or at least long-term until death. What good is 6 months going to do. You have to find another source of caregiving at the end of the period.

  • Mike T.

    The Harper of 1996 must cry himself to sleep at what the Harper of 2010 is reduced to.

  • chet

    Keep taling out the need to get rid or prisons.

    The average mom who worries about her kids' safety just loves to hear Liberal proposals to have criminals walking the streets instead of behind bars.

    More please.

  • Richard_S_Argent

    See, I knew you were purposely conflating this program with the gun registry – 'cause you're a dishonest person.

    Here's a thought – who do you think sends out the cheques for childcare? Now do you think that maybe, just maybe, the federal government will use the same infrastructure?

    Or perhaps you have information about the insane amounts of money it takes to oversee the printing and mailing of GST rebates. Or EI cheques. Or CCTBs. Or Income Tax refunds. I can keep going…do you need more examples?

    The federal government has a long history with mailing out cheques, but you knew that already, didn't you?

  • brooster

    And what would be over-runs if the Con check-giving elves who planned the G8/G20 gab-fest got their hands on it?

  • burlivespipe

    You mean the gun registry that 66 per cent of the Canadian public want to keep? Even 46 per cent of CONservative supporters think is worth keeping… You just stick with your big-spending buddies and their non-reporting victims of crime, non-recorded complainers of census questions, Fox News north, and the American sign-making industry.

  • http://nottawa.blogspot.com Mark

    Funny how "liberal check giving unicorns" can balance a budget, while Jim Flaherty apparently can't count much past his second thumb…

  • Emily

    LOL well I don't think I've ever said anything about Duceppe…he's not a contender in my province. Is he in yours? He never really came up.

    But if you want my honest opinion….him I like.

    Ignatieff and Layton I've criticized many times….in fact I can't think of anything I"ve said about them that's good! Didn't I just tell you I loathed the left?

    Mostly I just try and keep the Cons on here honest….not content with criticizing policy, they make stuff up. Wild bizarre stuff that's over the top. I poke pins in the hot air balloons Cons are always floating. LOL

    I just point out what has…and hasn't…actually been said or done.

  • Emily

    I thought YOU were off to bed….or are you on pogey?

    You must be loopy with lack of sleep if you think we need prisons for unreported crime.

  • chet

    You mean the one who's won three elections, each with greater numbers than the last?

    That Harper?

    The one who's presiding over the most successful economy in the world today…by a long shot?

    That Harper?

  • Emily

    Oh I think Harper managed to kill and bury his 'principles' long time ago

  • Mike T.

    why yes. I would have thought it would have been clear.

  • Emily

    Really? We're doing better than China??

    I'm quite amazed.

    So is everyone else.

  • frobisher

    Three Elections? Can you see into the future? Where's gold gonna max out before it plummets? Should we short the yen?

    Or do two annual 'time-outs' somehow add up to one successful election with greater numbers than the last?

  • MostlyCivil

    Nope. That's not throwing under the bus material.

    And remember, the "fartcatchers" thrive because of morons on both sides of the house that focus on the image and not the policy. The current Prime Minister has the biggest "fartcatcher" staff in parliamentary history, so you must be okay with the profession. Or did I miss your protest march about the recent increase in budget for the PMO?

  • ColdStanding

    Per capita, we are luxuriating oriental potentates in comparison to China.

    Other than the Downtown East Side of Vancouver, the living standards of Canadians remain well above the Chinese. They've got moxie, to be sure, but the fruits of their economic clout are not at all close to being evenly distributed.

  • Emily

    No, we aren't even close to China. In fact they've overtaken us in trade with the US.

    They are loaded with millionaires and billionaires.

    And their growth rate…well Flaherty would give a year's supply of his hair colour…plus all his hair extensions for it.

  • ColdStanding

    I'll vouch for it. Works great and I have several EI babies to prove it. Come to think of it, I didn't even get a physical cheque. Direct deposit.

    But one thing that I haven't gleened from your comments is if you are in support of the program or not – acknowledging that you demonstrate a fair grasp of the mechanics of the proposed policy.

  • ColdStanding

    When you divide even millions and billions by a population of 1.6 billion, it gets diluted very fast. There are still many multiples of the Canadian population that have seen practically no benefit from the growth of China's economy. We enjoy freedoms (not that there aren't forces [dark and subversive forces] eagar to strip them from us) far in excess of a good 75% of Chinese.

    Additionally, their growth rate needs to be considered as relative, as they had to start out from next to nothing. But good on them for what they have done. Hope it continues to their general benefit and ours.

  • Emily

    I think the number is throwing you….China has more middle class than all of NA has people.

    Their political system hasn't changed in 5000 years, and they are quite happy with it.

    Meanwhile we have homeless sleeping on our streets.

  • ColdStanding

    People on the streets, ya, not good. Here or there. There are more people sleeping on the streets of Chinese cities than there are people in Canada.

    Also corrected: Major changes in Chinese political culture over the last 5000 years – Shun replaced by Yao, replaced by Warring States period, replace by breif Chin empire, replaced by Han empire, etc.

  • ex-canuck

    Emily, your rancid arguments just prove that you are a closet Liberal, notwithstanding your centrist pretensions.

  • Emily

    Actually China gives out foreign aid.

    And they just offered to buy up all of Greece's debt.

    PS…China still has an emperor and provinces….just like always.

  • Blacktop

    And where the hell is the data to support that conclusion?

  • Mike T.

    I said I want Stephen Harper to tell that guy in the picture he shouldn't get more EI payments, he should stop smoking to have more $ to pay for his parents care. In or out of the house of commons. I would like the party to stop using mouthpieces such as yourself, and to say these odious things publicly.

  • ex-canuck

    only about Emily, the Obsessive.

  • Richard_S_Argent

    Yeah, I think it's a good proposal. Not that I think it should be the sum total of any home/elder care policy moving forward but it's a relatively inexpensive proposal that addresses a major concern for our aging population.

    That it might also relieve some stress on our healthcare system is another positive.

  • Stewart_Smith

    You have to connect the Public Health Agency numbers,
    http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ccdpc-cpcmc/cancer/pub…

    with the growing trend that support for the Conservatives is very weak among the highly educated.
    http://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2010/09/edu…

    The Liberals hold a 14 pt. lead over the Conservatives among those with a university degree, while those with a university degree were about 25% less likely to be smokers. You could also look at gender, more men smoke than women and Conservative support is significantly higher among males. To be fair, Conservative voters also skew older than the opposition and by 55 a significant number of smokers have quit.

  • http://nottawa.blogspot.com Mark

    Careful. Let's not make Tom Flanagan the litmus test for sensible policy decisions.

  • Blacktop

    It is a gross distortion of the purpose of EI – funds contributed by both employer and employee and not the Federal govt. The Liberals historicall "stole" the huge EI balances of some 60 billion? (I think), funds which would have come in handy during the down turn.. Now the Libs would distort it further for health purposes.This is a fund for unemployment, not looking afteraged, sick , parents, which is properly a provincial responsibility. Violin, tug at the heartstrings and the the left wing crowd think it is great. Where are their brains?
    Tax policy is not a health policy. .

  • Blacktop

    Pretty strained. It's tricky to ascribe statistical numbers to individuals and you are doing that in such a cross reference.

  • Richard_S_Argent

    Again, nobody should argue that this step alone is all that's needed to tackle the looming home/elder care crisis. As I've said elsewhere, this is a great first step – in no way should this be the end of the discussion, but rather the beginning.

  • brooster

    That's actually not true at all. Research in gerontology indicates that most seniors are generally healthy and active, and relatively independent, until the last few weeks/months of their lives. They are typically overtaken by cancer, a stroke, a fall leading to a broken hip, or some other health calamity leading to death a relatively short time thereafter.

    It's at that usually brief end stage that family caregivers are most crucial. This policy would help considerably at that time in an elder's life.

  • danby

    Touché

  • Orson Bean

    Dodged again.

  • danby

    What about the pooping puffin…….

  • Stewart_Smith

    Absolutely, and it is entirely plausible that someone's political philosophy spills over into their lifestyle choices. Indeed, one might think that anyone opposed to universal healthcare would take exceptional care of themselves just to be consistent. Of course, then you would have to explain Mike Duffy and the Dean of Peterborough. More directly to smoking, I think we all know that the Marlboro Man was a Republican.

  • Blacktop

    Doesn't wash and is a misuse of statistics. You could also say then that most immigrants will vote conservative because they demonstrably are heavy smokers (witness the smoker in the picture, er, at least the cigarette was there before this silly exchange started.

    By my observation, at least where I live, old people have mostly quit smoking. Does that mean they are Conserfvative. Actually, the riding I live in is healthily NDP and are mostly smokers, if my observatio9 at public meetings is correct – huddles of NDP young uns puffing away outside while the oldsters wait patiently inside folr the program to rersume.

    How easy it is to toss around conjectures in the name of statistics. That is as valid as your stuff. Anyway, your observations must be in Alberta where few follow any patterns that aren't Texan.

  • Blacktop

    BC was into home care and elder care since 1978. I was involved. Dispensing money, or warping a program (EI) to fit a political policy will reguire accountability and accountability will require measures you can't imagine. Each instance, each extension, each check cut will require staff in addition to what EI has, and they have been trying desparately to cut staff by amalgamation and elimination of local appeal boards.

    I would also expect the Auditor General to contest the misuse of funds that are rtargetted for unemployment because of job loss, not a daydream health plan.

  • Blacktop

    No Richard, it'spolitical nonsense and a misuse uf unemployment insurance funds – which obviously does not bother Liberals.

    I am not arguing that the notion doesn't have merit. People do need care and eliminating the "hotel"costs of care (i.e in a facility) is a big part of the public cost. But if one wants people to stay home to look after their elder family, why not do itb through a legitimate program that does not penalize the UI Fund?

  • Richard_S_Argent

    It's not warping a program to fit policy – EI already covers this. Ignatieff is calling for it to be extended from 6 weeks to 6 months. Where will staff be required?

    The second aspect of the plan, the $100/month cheque will likely be handled by EI as well. One would assume that the process for qualifying for this cheque program would be the same one that is required for qualifying to the EI benefit claim that already exists.

    I don't think anyone would argue that no further staff would be required to implement this proposal, but to suggest that it would be some kind of bureaucratic monstrosity isn't exactly accurate either.

    One final note – there is very little difference between the proposed cheque for homecare and the UCCB. I'm sure you'd agree with that, right?

    Do you happen to know which department oversees the UCCB? Human Resources and Skills Development. Know what else the HRSDC oversees? Employment Insurance.

    I think the Auditor General will be just fine with the proposal.

  • Richard_S_Argent

    Please do yourself a favour and read up on what HRSDC covers
    http://www.rhdcc-hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/corporate/policy…

  • Blacktop

    Having spent some time in the business, I will repeat the facts. In the 65 to 85 group (called the ÿoung old age group, permanent illness or incapability causing dependence is about 15%, split also roughly between care that can be given in the home and care that requires admittance to a facility. When the BC Long-Term Care Program was started, many of the former were in facilities under what was termed then Personal Care. The Program demonstrated that when Homemaker Service, Home Nursing Care and other peripheral services (handyman, transport assistance for visit to a doctor, or help shopping and banking, for example) are delivered, a client could remain at home as long as there was not an acute event requiring hospiatlization.

    Over 85, the percentages go up requiring both home care and facility care, notwithstanding that the MAJORITY are relatively healthy. We are still dealing with thousands under care – and of course proportional numbers in different size populations such as Ontario. Experience in Manitoba was the same as BC. However, a stroke patient can live for years, severe arthritis and other disabling conditions. Even a cancer patient can live on for years requiring care.
    The sudden onset cases can proceed quickly to death or can linger on.

    There certainly will be some who fall into the 6 month period but the majority will not. BC had 15,000 in facility care (not acute hosp[ital), many of whom had been under care for YEARS not months, and somewhat less in home care with a population of about 3 million at the time.

    The cut back in resources by the present Liberal government has changed those figures – cutting care beds, reducing home care monies etc.

  • brooster

    It's difficult for me to parse all your numbers, in different jurisdictions over different time periods, but I don't think they refute my contention that the majority of elderly are relatively healthy until a brief period before death.

    In any event, what do you find so odious about this specific proposal? That it attempts to provide income security to care-providers or that it uses EI as the vehicle to deliver it?

    What would you propose as an alternative approach to dealing with an aging demographic?

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