Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Comings, goings

by Aaron Wherry on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 2:06pm - 0 Comments

Julian Fantino officially hopes to be the Conservative candidate in Vaughan. The Liberals have won the riding all five times it has been contested, by 8,000 votes in the last election.

Liberal MP Shawn Murphy won’t run again in Charlottetown. The Liberals have held that riding since 1988, last winning by 3,000 votes.

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  • Emily

    And as soon as Blatch's new book hits the stands, the Cons will have a disaster on their hands with Fantino.

  • TJCook

    Well, I expect Fantino will be as sh*tty a candidate as he was Chief of the OPP and Toronto Police.

    Ontario's leading confrontational, divisive, authoritarian blowhard jerk as a candidate for the Conservative Party of Canada? Harper had better watch himself at the next leadership convention.

  • noob_goldberg

    Does anyone think that Fantino can actually handle himself in a caucus/scrum/committee where he actually has to try to come to a consensus instead of just forcing his will upon people?

    Pass the popcorn, please.

  • noob_goldberg

    Great, now I just got a mental image of Fantino and his bedfellows. Thanks.

  • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

    I noticed at least two posters so far suggesting Fantino can't cut it as a compromising politician because he's a thug cop, or something. I have a one word rebuttal in response: Caledonia. Footnote: His boss was a Liberal premier.

    • LynnTO

      I've always thought that Caledonia would be the primary reason why Fantino shouldn't ever run for office.

      • Emily

        That's what the book says.

      • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

        because……??

        • Emily
          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            and……?

        • LynnTO

          Personally, because my impression of the situation was that as someone charged with the protection of law-abiding citizens and "keeping the peace", as it were, he allowed a situation where local residents were afraid to live in their own homes to continue. Land dispute or no land dispute, having to live in fear of one's home getting ransacked isn't something one would expect in this country.

          Among other issues at Caledonia, that one sticks out in my head as the one most electorally damaging.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Well, most of that policing policy was established before Fantino entered the scene. And, if you're so critical of Conservative Fantino regarding Caledonia, what about his boss, Liberal premier Dalton McGuinty, who's completely responsible for the entire affair from start to finish?

            If you were being completely consistent, wouldn't you conclude that McGuinty is even more unqualified for political office than Fantino?

            But my guess is you won't even come close to being completely consistent, as per usual.

          • pulex

            In terms of consistency I'm a little confused. Are you suggesting you are a supporter of both Fantino and McGuinty? Or neither?

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Yes, you are confused, since I haven't made any comments regarding my support for either. Instead, I simply defended Fantino's political pedigree, since he clearly engaged in a political policing strategy under the supervision of a Liberal premier. This track record undermines the notion that he's not ready for politics. I think he clearly is — regardless of what you think of his actual positions or political leanings, or the fact that he was a cop. In fact, a regular accusation made against him when he was a cop, usually by critics on the left, was that he was a political cop at that. Hard to square that characterization with the new one, also apparently from leftists here, that he's now not political enough. Got it?

          • lostit

            Query: Do you write with this tone, or is this just for the comment section?

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Query: Are you serious?

          • lostit

            Yes.

          • Orson Bean

            I agree with Dennis to the extent that the tone and nature of attacks against Fantino have certainly not been consistent or coherent. Some people who attack him for the Caledonia thing are attacking from the "right", in the sense that they're claiming that he was "soft on the aboriginals" and essentially carried out or participated in a "politically correct" fiasco which amounted effectively to discrimination against non-aboriginal people. Yet I've heard lots of others take almost an opposite tack against Fantino, complaining that he's a populist, redneckesque, law-and-order type, a sort of Canadian Mayor Daley waiting to happen. So to that I think it is reasonable to say to his critics: pick a narrative and stick with it, will ya?

          • lostit

            Why is this reply to me?
            I'm asking about Dennis' tone. Nothing more.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            So, instead of responding to the numerous points I made, you'd rather question me about my "tone"? This is why I asked if you were serious. You don't seem to be.

          • NorthernPoV

            I think he is trying to find out if you really are as nasty as you come across here on this board Dennis,
            It seems that some people think being civil is a serious discussion point, but I understand if that got by you, as even less complicated forays seem to do just that.
            Oh and besides disliking your tone, many others have shown themselves willing to waste their time trying to have a civil debate with you – so let lostit have a kick at the can… we are waiting for an answer to his question!

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Where in the world have I been nasty? You can't respond to one point I've made on here, so you have to go on the attack. Then you have the gall to suggest that I'm the one being nasty. This is unbelievable.

          • lostit

            You really love the word gall.
            No, i have no need to engage in a "debate" with you. I've seen how that goes. I see you are a writer. I'm generally curious about your writing considering your commenting style, thus the question. I don't care about what you say, but how you say it, at this point.
            You think you are not nasty. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking you can be quite disparaging. "Got it?"

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            You have yet to cite one instance of my being "nasty". You're more than welcome to engage in debate. It seems that you can't. Instead, would prefer to attack me personally in a knee-jerk fashion. Is that being "nasty" too, or am I not allowed to tell the truth? Am I not allowed to dare disagree with you?

            Is politics a religion to you? Is this why you get so angry at people like this? Is this why you can't engage people intelligently?

            This is exactly why I asked if you're being serious. You're not. Oh, sorry, too "nasty" for you? lol

            I find it amusing how some people are far more fascinated with me than with refuting one thing I have to say on here.

          • lostit

            Okay, so you missed my example "got it" with its condescending nature. So, here you are. This is one week of your body of work.
            "
            What, no speakey English?

            Or do you not understand what an unnamed source is?

            Again, great set of standards you've got for yourself there.

            Gotta love crack journalism

            Frankly, I think you're still hunched over. You still can't explain your hypocritical double standards. Your abs need more of a workout, I'm afraid. Thanks.

            Hard to square that characterization with the new one, also apparently from leftists here, that he's now not political enough. Got it?

            I suggest you take that chip off your shoulder while you're at it, too. It might help you come up with a coherent response that isn't so knee-jerk.

            Really? And maybe tomorrow you'll be able to count to three for us. Thanks. Next.

            Yes, and please justify the claim that Harper tried to form a coalition. God. I've never seen people so ignorantly persist with a lie. Again, I'm sorry, but it's true.

            The letter never proposed a coalition. Period. Duh.

            For people who love to consider themselves smarter than everyone else, they sure like to expose their own ignorance on the coalition. I'm sorry, but it's true.

            Sorry for not wanting to tolerate these intolerant and uneducated tactics. You consider everything that Chet has to say as a lie. Brilliant. Next.

            Crapping on everyone you resent in politics is not debating, dear.

            By exposing it as such instead of farting about it. Next.

            Then you have the gall to characterize others as "idiotic". Honestly, some posters make me laugh with their unfounded arrogance

            I called you a zombie because you can't even read the 2004 letter you keep citing as false evidence for Harper's position on coalitions, right?

            In fact, I basically called you a liar, because you keep lying about that letter.

            I mean, how many times do I have to state it?

            Or is it that you're not interested in anything except agitating for your agenda and lying about it?

            The truth hurts, doesn't it, especially when people can support it with facts and argumentation, which you obviously can't.
            "

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Wow, you spend a lot of time picking my posts, don't you? Now, how about posting the context in which all those comments were made, and the tone used to make them? There are a lot of nasty posters on here. You seem to completely ignore them, and expect me to yield when challenged. I won't do that. I don't think that's a nasty tone. But you're clearly far more interested in trying to discredit my voice than in actually responding to what I have to say. In other words, you're terrified of the threat I pose to your agenda, apparently. Must be hard to sleep at night, eh? Oh yeah, not allowed to say that. I have to sit down and take your personal attacks with a smile. Sorry.

          • lostit

            Hahaha…nice reply! I'm terrified of your threat!!!
            You DID ask, where have i been nasty? Didn't I just show you? Sure others are nasty. So are you. You said you weren't. I'm showing that you are.
            I answered your question! Now, please answer mine.
            Do you write with this tone, or only for the comment section?
            Yes, i am serious….again.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            You are threatened, since you'd rather spend a lot of time copying and posting one-line comments out of context rather than confront my ideas.

            Why did you leave out what my opponents were saying?

            You're not interested in serious dialogue. You are in fact terrified of it. Terrified of me, apparently.

          • lostit

            And it took about 10 minutes of perusing your comments, didn't take much time at all to prove a simple point. Just click on your name and it shows everything you have said. Convenient. Surely you can't expect me to pose the whole context of every different comment you have made and has been made back at you.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            You went out of your way to post dozens of my sentences completely editing out the context. This is serious debating to you, is it? In fact, you have refused to debate me. Instead, you have wasted a lot of time accomplishing absolutely nothing. Congrats. You're a winner, I tell ya. lol

          • lostit

            Nope, not debating. Can't debate. Completely unable to. You win. YOU win, i lose. However, since you won, i have a question for you. Do you use this tone in your written work, or do you only use this tone in the comment section.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            What does anything I do in my private or professional life have to do with what I do on here? Like I said, it was always a stupid line of questioning, but apparently it's all you have. Thanks for showing up.

          • lostit

            Heh, wow, it's one simple question.
            All you had to do was say Yes i do or no i don't. Something like that.
            Yeah silly me for being curious about how you manage to be a writer with the tone you have here.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            In other words, your entire intent was to personally smear me. Thank you for proving me right all along.

          • lostit

            Haha, a minute and you've already thumbed yourself up!
            The GALL!!!!

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Newsflash: Subscribers automatically get one thumbs up after every submitted post. And you can't vote for yourself. But so glad to see you being on top of things and all.

          • lostit

            Ahh, nice to know. Do unsubscribers like myself get -1 every time too? or is that you?
            Pardon me for my mistake. Does seem rather silly. Simply posting gives you a thumb up? Why?

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            I guess IntenseDebate wants to reward people who post as subcribers. I don't know. Ask them. But check it out. Every time a subscriber posts, they automatically have one thumbs up.

          • lostit

            I guess that explains your reputation rating then, right? I mean, i see alot of minus scores on your many posts.
            Must be all the leftists thumbing you down, right?

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            If they're always posting thumbs down, then I'd never have a positive rating, right? But keep up your personal campaign against me. You're just proving I was right about you from the beginning, and that you need these tactics. Thanks.

          • lostit

            Well that's just it right? How do you have a positive rating if most of your posts have such negative ones? So this explains it. The more posts you make, the higher your rating becomes. Just look at your comment history. Lots of thumbs down, right?

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Most of my posts don't have negative ratings. Just the ones where the left-wing gets furious. Bye.

          • lostit

            Well, you have written over 2700 comments, so that's a lot of +1 gimmies. Many of ones i quickly perused had some minus 6's and minus 4's. Some relatively light minus 2's and 3's. Saw a minus 15! Lots and lots of lefties, eh?!!

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Glad to see you're so obsessed with me. But if all the feedback was negative, so, too, would be my rating. And these boards are dominated by leftists. it's why you get furious with me, and my positive rating. Thanks.

          • lostit

            Yeah, you're my troll of the week. It's fun. You're welcome. I'm just SOOO fuious!! Grrrr….haha.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            You troll a lot, do ya? Thanks again.

          • NorthernPoV

            Can't find a debating partner?
            no one wants to take your bait any more dear boy, try some of ours ;-)

            no one asked you to "yield", heaven forbid

            no, Dennis_F: you have been asked if you are as nasty in real life as you are here

            and you keep twisting 4 ways to Sunday to avoid answering

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            No, some of you can't confront my ideas, so you have to engage in these personalized attacks. I'm sorry, but, where I come from, standing up for yourself is not being nasty. It's not illegal to challenge other people's political agenda.

          • lostit

            I don't care about your political agenda. I care about your tone. Full stop!
            Here, You're ideas are better than mine. I pale in comparison. Okay, done. I can[t even begin to debate. You win…
            Now, please, do you use this tone in your profession as a writer, or do you only use this tone in the comment section?

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Okay, done. I can[t even begin to debate. You win…

            Precisely. Thank you.

          • lostit

            Hahaha…so,
            still no answer to the question i asked?
            Wait, did i just win my first ever debate by default? :)

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Why even ask it?

          • lostit

            General curiosity :)
            The GALL i know!
            Keep thumbing yourself.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            You can't vote for yourself, but thanks for showing up.

          • lost it

            Yeah i figured that would be the case, so i assumed you must be running a second account.
            Doesn't seem to make sense that you get a thumb up simply for posting. Why is that?

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Ask IntenseDebate.

          • lostit

            You're welcome for showing up by the by

          • LynnTO

            Even if it were established before Fantino entered the scene, enforcement of the law was in his hands, and he chose a certain path.

            McGuinty also bears responsibility for Caledonia, but then again, so does any Prime Minister who's been in power since the whole shebang got started. Native treaties, as well as criminal law, are both considered federal "powers" (though left mostly up to the provinces to enforce.)

            McGuinty's mandate is not directly in policing; Fantino's was. That he couldn't police the area for the greatest good to the greatest number demonstrates, to me, a failure to live up to one's mandate that I cannot forgive.

            There are far better areas in which to criticize McGuinty in terms of his failure to live up to his mandate (eHealth, OLG, Health Premium, Smart Meters, coal-fired generation anyone?)

            Thanks for the attack, though. Nice to know my abs can still take a needless gut punch from time to time.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            In other words, I was exactly right. You are incapable of being completely consistent in your standards. You blast Conservative Fantino, who came after the fact, while giving his Liberal premier boss a pass, who was responsible for the mess in the first place, and hired Fantino to do the job you say you don't like.

            Frankly, I think you're still hunched over. You still can't explain your hypocritical double standards. Your abs need more of a workout, I'm afraid. Thanks.

            For the record, I'm critical of both for their handling of Caledonia. I just used it as an example of Fantino's political capabilities; ones which the usual suspects on here denied he had.

          • burlivespipe

            Coming from a guy who regularly absolves the current 'so-called leader' Harper of any responsibility in his governing and its results makes this thread an ironic satire. Any chance you could type your opinions up faster and fed-ex them to Desperate Housewives? Seems they're in need of some new fictional ideas…

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Let's see, you're at least the third person who has come on here and, being apparently too afraid to engage on the topics raised, would rather make completely unsubstantiated claims against me. This is what passes as a political agenda these days, is it?

          • burlivespipe

            As practiced and applied by your own fearless leader, yes. I guess its live by the sword, fizzle by the sword…

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            So you're now admitting to tactics that you accuse Harper of using, are you? Brilliant. And he's not my "fearless leader". I have no problem with thinking for myself. You?

          • LynnTO

            I think there's plenty of blame to go around in the Caledonia situation, and I really wish you'd taken my post in the spirit intended. But you know what, you're right. I'm just a dumb loser hypocrite who doesn't deserve to sweep the ground you walk on and can't possibly defend her opinions and therefore has no right to hold any. I suppose I'll take my shoes off, find myself a smart, rich husband, mate, and then stay barefoot in the kitchen raisin' the young'ins where I belong.

            I suppose I should probably get off the internet, if that's what I'm gonna do.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            or you could develop a consistent political standard instead of shamelessly citing your gender as a last resort.

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