Beyond The Commons

 Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Choose your own adventure

by Aaron Wherry on Friday, October 15, 2010 12:47pm - 0 Comments

The Harper government is talking, isn’t talking and is prepared to talk with the United Arab Emirates, not there’s anything to talk about.

… on Thursday, International Trade Minister Peter Van Loan told Reuters News Agency that Canada hasn’t made a final decision to reject the UAE’s request that more landing slots at airports such as Pearson be given to its two air carriers. The Conservative minister said talks are continuing…

Within hours of Mr. Van Loan’s comments hitting the newswires, another government official denied, on background, that air-negotiation talks were still taking place. And a spokesman for Transport Minister Chuck Strahl said that his department believes the existing air flight agreement with UAE adequately serves market needs…

Asked to clarify his remarks, Mr. Van Loan would only say that Ottawa remains ready to talk.

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  • Emily

    Sigh…the gang that couldn't shoot straight.

    Amazing, for a party that claims to be pro-business and anti-protectionism, that this is even a question….much less the clusterfu*k that it's become.

  • PolJunkie

    If these clowns keep this up, I'm gonna have to sow an American flag onto my backpack on my next trip…

  • Tceh

    Emirates and Etihad got stopped in their tracks while attempting a passenger poaching operation from Canadian carriers. That is a good thing IMO. There is no way for Canadian air carriers to compete against these two because:

    1) UAE air carriers have a substantially lower tax load than Canadian carriers

    2) Only a fraction of the traffic Emirates pulls out of Toronto is destined for Dubai. Most of it is connecting onwards past Dubai. Canada gets a higher taxable benefit from having Canadian air carriers move connecting traffic to international hubs than having an Emirates move the same.

    3) If Canadian carriers get a smaller cut of international passengers leaving Canada it means fewer aviation jobs in Canada when Canadian carriers cut back. These jobs will migrate to places like Dubai and Asia. The Canadians who take those jobs will not pay Canadian income tax, nor will they spend any substantial portion of their salary in Canada.

    I'm not against all foreign carriers, just the poachers who provide no tangible and reciprocal benefit. British Airways provides such a benefit. Lufthansa too. Emirates, not so much because all most of their Dubai traffic connects thru and onwards.

    More on this here: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-10/air-fran…

    • Emily

      Actually it would provide Canadian jobs, and enlarge trade…..which is why Premier Stelmach is for it.

    • PolJunkie

      Assuming you are correct in your assessment, Tceh…

      Do you believe that protecting Air Canada's market share is worth jeopardizing the rest of our trade with the UAE? Trade that has a significantly larger value than Air Canada could ever bring? Should everyone else suffer this loss to protect AC?

      This is where adroit diplomacy comes in, something that Ham-Fisted Harper is clearly incapable of. The UAE has clearly overreached with this latest stunt but cooler heads must prevail. Re-routing Mackay was a negotiating tactic, however misguided it may have been. The problem is that Clueless Harper is taking it personally instead of seeing it for what it is and ensuring that millions of dollars in trade aren't jeapordized.

      Not to worry, though. Alberta has weighed in. Even Harper wouldn't dare ignore that warning.

    • noob_goldberg

      Dubai is in the middle of nowhere. I can't imagine there being a whole lot of demand for connections, even if it saved a few hundred bucks. It's like flying from Toronto to Anchorage to land in Los Angeles. Unless I was back-packing on the cheap I probably would take something a little more direct.

      • Emily
      • PolJunkie

        Sorry noob but you clearly don't understand that the world as we know it is changing and the role the Gulf region is sure to play in the future. With the economic centres changing locations, air traffic will soon change from the current transatlantic/transpacific corridors mostly used by western airlines.

        Hub airlines located in the Gulf region are being smart and are attempting to be the ones to benefit from that shift.

        Look around you. America and the EU are no longer the centres of the world.

        • noob_goldberg

          It's still China, Japan, Europe, and the Americas. All economic potential and flashy architecture aside, Dubai has a long ways to go to unseat any of those countries.

          • PolJunkie

            You misunderstand my point.

            I'm not saying that Dubai is going to be the next economic hub. I'm saying that given the economic shifts around the world towards Asia and Southeast Asia, global travel corridors are also going to change and the Gulf region is smartly looking to position itself as the new relay point over to those regions.

            If the Gulf plays it right, you might be likely to fly through their hubs to get to India or China. That's the intent. The other airlines aren't able to offer you that itinerary at the moment. And given the kind of service that Canadians are getting from AC, I wouldn't be surprised that they would opt for that route if given the chance.

          • noob_goldberg

            Fair enough, and I think Dubai would have a lock on India, for sure. That's definitely a sizable market, although I don't think it accounts for a huge portion of global travel yet, at this point.

            But I stand by my thoughts that they will never get a lock on China, simply due to hours of additional time it takes to get there from North America by flying east, instead of west. However, it could be important for European travellers.

            However, I can't imagine that the Air Canada CEO really cares one way or the other about Europe-China travel.

          • PolJunkie

            Noob, seems to me that Air Canada and the PMO disagree with you.

          • noob_goldberg

            It wouldn't be the first time that I didn't understand what either Air Canada or the PMO were thinking.

      • Anon 001

        If you are flying from North America to India or Pakistan, or even to Hong Kong or Beijing, Dubai becomes very important transfer point. You could fly Emirates to Dubai non-stop from Canada, and then transfer onto dozens of local airlines to get to your final destination.

        Dubai may be in the middle of nowhere, but it, being a duty-free port, along with Singapore, is the most important transit point for both air and sea traffic in Asia.

        • noob_goldberg

          Thank you for being the only one who actually responded to my point. I wasn't saying Dubai was an economic backwater, or that it's unimportant, but that the argument put forward by Air Canada that they were just poaching connections was specious. No where in my post did I state such a thing.

          I have no doubt that Dubai is an important location, and serves the middle east and surrounding environs, including India and Pakistan. However, it's shorter to fly Hong Kong/Beijing through LA or Vancouver, and I don't know many businessmen who will voluntarily add hours onto their flights to save a couple hundred bucks. I stand by that point.

          Take a look at Air Canada's routes, and then tell me which ones are going to be poached by Emirates? India, Pakistan, the middle east, perhaps some Indonesian stuff if they are really desparate and slash fares. There's some demand there, but it sounded like the CEO was worried they were going to steal all the overseas stuff from AC. I think it's a silly argument, is my point.

          • PolJunkie

            "However, it's shorter to fly Hong Kong/Beijing through LA or Vancouver, and I don't know many businessmen who will voluntarily add hours onto their flights to save a couple hundred bucks. I stand by that point."

            Have you ever flown on Emirates? There is a reason why Air Canada doesn't want them in CAnada. They know full well that the business class would jump at the chance to fly on something other than Air Canada and its crappy service.

          • noob_goldberg

            I'm an outlier in this discussion, as I've had nothing but good luck with Air Canada. Mind you, I've only been travelling regularly with them for three years, and it sounds like they're not the same airline they were a few years back.

            Perhaps I've just been really lucky.

      • tedbetts

        Sorry noob, but you are wrong about Dubai. It is and is increasingly becoming a hub of huge international economic activity and not just in the Middle East. There is an enormous amount of financing and trade that runs through Dubai into, to and from the Middle East. It is quite westernized as far as business goes and so a lot of international work is done there rather than, say, in Saudi Arabia next door where interest is not allowed, businesswomen are not allowed, etc.

        Unfortunately, it's economy is in real despair because of the almost complete collapse of the financial markets there and not having much of any other domestic industry to speak of (like its own oil) which is why other more westernized places like Bharain are replacing much of its economy, but it is still an incredibly vital hub in the Middle East.

        Sorry, but saying it isn't and saying there is not a lot of demand for connections to Dubai shows quite a lack of knowledge about global economics.

        • noob_goldberg

          This has nothing to do with their economy, tedbetts. I'm well aware of Dubai's economic status. I was responding to the Air Canada CEO's argument that they were just poaching connections. Toronto – Beijing direct is about 14 hours (usually less) and Toronto-Dubai-Bejing is at least 20 hours plus layovers, which can be five or more hours. So you tell me which businessman is going to chose a 20-24 hour flight vs a 13 hour flight for a few hundred bucks?

    • burlivespipe

      Perhaps they should be stopping people at the borders and putting up high tariffs against American airlines who park their planes at Bellingham, where a good # of Canadians head for their flights to farther afield. I see what you are saying but if Canadian airlines land in UAE i don't see why the CONs decided to start a turf war on this topic. Face palm omlette, anyone?

    • YYZ

      So what? It would give more choice to consumers and/or make it cheaper for consumers.

      Emirates does provide a tangible benefit…it is a pleasure to be on board.

  • noob_goldberg

    For those of us questioning why Harper insists on forcing every media release to go through the PMO comms department, there's our answer.

  • brooster2

    All this proves is that Harper has trouble running two sock puppets simultaneously. That's why you only ever see one out of the Tickle Trunk at a time.

  • Anon 001

    Let the "Peter Van Loan for Leader" campaign begin.

  • tedbetts

    This is obviously all the fault of Michael Ignatieff.

  • Dave

    What happens when the radioactive atom decays and we look into the box?

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