Categories: Polls

Should Ottawa allow Omar Khadr to serve a prison sentence in Canada?

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by macleans.ca on Friday, October 22, 2010 10:30am - 0 Comments

Tags: Omar Khadr

Catherine

If you vote to have him kept out of the country you have been brainwashed by the usa. Use your head!!! He has been set up and treated wrongly right from the beginning. It shames me.

Diana1976

Right. The original brainwashing was by the Bush government. They're the ones who came up with the notion that fighting with an irregular armed group, not having POW status, automatically made a person a war criminal and a terrorist.

At this point, it seems to be the Harper government that's doing the misleading and brainwashing. Harper implied Khadr wasn't qualified under the "child soldier" law, for instance, and that's just wrong. Even the military judge didn't say that. He said the Military Commissions Act took precedence, but Khadr should never have been under that Act in the first place. See why.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i…
Meg

Certainly agree with you. He was only 15 at that time, and was made a scapegoat for the rest of the terrorists.

Billy M

He was 16 years 3 months + old when he killed the medic. Age of consent in Canada and a lot of other countries.
Any idea how many young Canadian Soldiers of the same age who lost their life in WW1 and WW 11.
He knew well what he was doing.
Khadr Born 19 April 1986
Killed Medic on 27 July 2002

Jane

Harper's government is creating two classes of Canadian citizens – those he likes and those he doesn't like. This should be a concern for everybody. Omar Khadr was born in Canada, and has no other country. The person who possibly shouldn't have been a citizen is his father.

Diana1976

Even his father was respected at one time, when he involved himself in the US backed fight against the Russians in Afghanistan, particularly working on humanitarian projects. Like a lot of those people he eventually came under suspicion because of the movement that grew up after the Russians left. It was thought he might have been financing terrorism because of his connections to the heads of various groups in Afghanistan including Bin Laden. Factions in Afghanistan continued to fight each other, and the Taliban prevailed. After 9/11 Khadr's father decided to regard the American invasion as yet another foreign attack on the country, and joined the fight against it. Then he involved his 15 year old son. I find it ludicrous to hold this against Omar Khadr. He was obviously caught up in this a situation created by his father's political cause. That's what the first interrogator who talked to him at Bagram said. And he was right.
Dave

As a person born in Canada, by taking up arms against NATO and thus the Canadian Armed Forces, Omar Khadr is guilty of treason. Why do you think that no government wants him back.

Billy M

Well said Dave. The guy is a traitor and in the WW 11 era he would have faced a firing squad. We do not need this piece of crap back in Canada. he does not deserve his Canadian Citizenship.

sourstud

Firing squad my ass. It would have been a summary execution on the field of battle and we never would have heard the scumbags name. It's too bad that didn't happen.

james

Canada has no obligation to repatriate criminals convicted in a foreign country. When he's served his time, we'll let him back in.

Thomas Parr

Thank God you are not a judge in any Canadian Court. The Supreme Court of Canada stated that Omar Khadr should have been repatriated a long time ago, and not left to the whims of a Kangaroo Court by the Military.

Billy M

Then thank goodness Stephen Harper did not listen to these artsy fartsies in the Supreme Court of Canada.
Lets not forget that the Liberals did not repatriate him either.
Taxslave

The supreme court of Canada IS a kangaroo court.

WictorWictor

Khadr has yet to be convicted, and there is good reason to believe that his "trial" is a mockery of justice

pdpd

Its true. The crux of the evidence is his confession, which was interrogated out of him in a notorious prison, by a guy now rotting in Leavenworth for….wait for it….torturing an Afghan to death.

And now the guy refuses to testify in this case unless he gets immunity. What for, may we ask?

Oh, and it turns out that another Afghan fighter was closer to the murder, and wasn't grievously injured at the time like Khadr. But the U.S. Army covered it up because it was inconvenient that they had executed the guy on the spot.

There is no way to convict him fairly of anything beyond time served. This is a sad mockery of our commitment to rule of law.

Jules

How is throwing a grenade in the midst of combat a "crime"? If that's a crime, many of our own soldiers should be in jail in Afghanistan.

In any case, the evidence of the attack (or self defence…) is itself highly questionable.

bman

i totaly agree american soldiers were attacking the compound he was in he had every right to defend himself…

Billy M

Duuuhhhh thats not the point. Why was he in the compound in the first place. He was a Terrorist and enemy of Canada and any other Nation fighting to free Afghanistan from Tyranny. He fought against Canada and ended up killing a US soldier. it just as easily could have been a Canadian soldier he killed and some of the bleeding hearts want to bring him home and set him up for life. F*** me these bleeding hearts probably think poor Omar should get benefits from Veteran's Affairs and attend trauma counselling with some of our Vets. We are far too soft on Terrorists.
There is a nice big hole down in Chile that was recently evacuated by some Miners. Perhaps we could send the little prick down there along with that other Terrorist scumbag who was convicted of plotting targets in Canada. If successful there would have been mass murders of Canadians. This guy gets 16 years but with time served he could be out in 3 years. Our Justice system fails to protect law abiding Canadians.

TomJ

Our soldiers should not be in Afghanistan period. All they are doing is cleaning up Bush's folly just like in Iraq. Canada should sick to domestic issues instead of wasting our tax dollars on bad US policy .
Kev

This is what trials are for to produce evidence of guilt or not guilty nothing like the Sharia law that the Khadrs totally support.
By the way word has it that the Khadrs were making IED's when attacked…imagine the Khadrs producing weapons to kill their Canadian country men and allies.
They and their families of supporters get nice fat cheques from the Canadian Government every month and fall neatly into our social safety net so they can go on producing and supporting (wives and sisters) the manufacture of IEDs to kill Canadians and Americans…outrageous!!!!

Diana1976

Khadr was involved in the war by his father, as a 15 year old. It's ridiculous to look for some excuse to hold him in prison for that beyond the 8 years he's already spent.

The charge against Khadr is placing land mines where the American military were expected to travel. Land mines aren't illegal as far as the US is concerned and it's not a war crime to target a military force.

Nothing Khadr did is a war crime and trying him in some second class justice system, simply because he's a foreigner, is wrong. That's why every other democracy got their Gtmo prisoners out.

Canada could try him for treason, and the land mines offence, in a Canadian court, although it would be contrary to the international law on child soldiers and it would make Canada look even more ludicrous than it does now. That might be why the Cons don't want him back. Their hateful supporters would push them to try him and they know it would make them look ridiculous. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i…
Billy M

Well said Kev

SkidMark

Citizens, born here or naturalized, have no right to expect Canada to get them out of a war zone they chose to enter. Although I would have cut Omar some slack based on his age, the fact remains that child soldiers are a fact in this mixed-up world. That does not make them any more or less responsible for their actions, in other words may not excuse but does explain.

Brian

Why should he serve a prison sentence? If prison time is required, may it be served by both the Canadian and American politicians who have refused to assume their responsibilities in this matter. It is very embarrassing to be a Canadian knowing that your country will not come to your aid when abused by another country, such as the US.

danny lamontagne

For as long as there is a war on terror, he should be kept in POW camp.Period.
Mike

It is very embarrassing to be a Canadian when reading the kind of crap you wrote

Bugzy

He was taken there by his father and he was only 15 and still a child.. He was severly wounded himself by who?The actual person who killed the soldier more than likely. We all know how dishonest some soldiers can be Take Williams for example and thats only one of them. Try and remember that he was yet a child and that this government will not help nor any other Canadian to have the misfortune of being at the wrong place at the time. This governments policy of aiding canadians in other countries is a known fact. Nil to none. I would wish the same treatment on them if they ever were caught in the same situation. Brian I would add come to your aid when abused by the US and continuelly be abused by your own country.
Diana1976

Check out the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on Children Involved in Armed Conflict. It's called the "Child Soldier Law" for short, signed by both US and Canada. Prosecuting Khadr is completely contrary to the intent of it. Harper mislead Canadians by suggesting Khadr wasn't qualified for some reason. Even the military judge didn't say that.

Nobody Khadr's age has been charged with war crimes since World War Two. Even then, there were only two people the Prosecution in Khadr's case came up with who had served sentences anything like Khadr has already spent in prison. One was charged in the killing of a British Prisoner of War and one worked in the Nazi death camps were they incinerated people. Those are REAL war crimes. Khadr's only crime was joining a war while not being part of a lawful armed group, like every other insurgent in Iraq and Afghanistan and many other wars. That likely applies to most child soldiers because it's unlawful to recruit them. Many do far worse things. That's why groups like UNICEF have criticized Canada. Canada is undermining a law it normally promotes, or used to.

http://zirbert.blogspot.com Zirbert

I see no reason why we Canadians should pay for his food, lodging, and other upkeep. He's fine where he is.

The refrain that Harper should "demand" his return was, and is, laughable. We have as much right to make "demands" of the U.S. as the flea has to make demands of the elephant on which it resides. Besides, America is our greatest ally and friend. If you demand that your friends behave as you wish, then I'm glad I'm not one of them.

Diana1976

The US is trying to get rid of the national embarrassment of Gtmo, and Omar Khadr is the biggest embarrassment in it. There have been signs the US would like Canada to do what all the responsible western democracies have done and seek repatriation.

citizen_CA

The only embarrassment in this whole scenario is that the Canadian government has not yet booted the Khadrs back to where they came from, but has been using my tax dollars to feed and clothe this treasonous family.

henryane

I think it is a sensible idea. Tha governement should declare whole family (on plenty of avalible evidence)as enemy of the state long time ago.

Kevin…Ottawa

Omar Khader is a terrorist defended to this day by his mother and sisters for his terrorist actions and continue on as a terrorist ( his mother and sister were interviewed by CBC a year ago and said as much).
Canada to Khader and family is a place that they can receive free medical care (as his father did after he was wounded while involved in armed terrorist activities), welfare cheques and other benefits to continue their hatred of all things western.
Not once did Khader show regret or offer an apology for the US soldier Cpl Speers that he killed. He is the furthest thing from being a Canadian as some sick rat in the middle of Asia is.
No; Omar Khader should never be allowed to darken Canada's doorway again and his supportive mother and sisters should be expelled to their country of origin and make their own way in the land, culture, government and religion of their choice. Paradise on earth I'm sure and they get to pay all their own bills.

Mauree

I couldn't agree more.
Diana1976

Khadr isn't charged with personally committing any act of terrorism. And nobody proved he killed anybody. Even if he did, killing a soldier in a war with a grenade is not a war crime. And how come people like you aren't demanding that tens of thousands of other insurgents in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars should be prosecution in the deaths of 5000 US soldiers, and many more wounded, plus all the other soldiers, including the Canadians killed in Afghanistan. What exactly do you think is the difference between him and all the others?

citizen_CA

For one, TREASON!

Diana1976

Re Treason: John Walker Lindh committed treason by fighting for the Taliban. Americans were enraged but they gave him a fair trial in a regular court, because he's an American citizen.

David Hicks did the same as Lindh, but the US gave him a less fair trial because he was an Australian with no rights under the American Constitution. The Australians asked for repatriation.

Like Khadr, they all fought an ally of their country in a war. They were all part of unlawful armed groups. They all either killed people on the other side or tried (what you do in a war). Lindh & Hicks were adults who made their own independant decisions. Khadr wasn't. Americans & Australians respect the right of their citizens to a fair trial. So far, Canadians haven't.

citizen_CA

Omar is a citizen in name only. He and his whole family should be striped of this privilege, as they never meant any of the oaths they took. I do not know why Canada did not ask for repatriation, but it might be that our gov. saw it the same way as I do, or that they felt like so many others, that he deserved to be where he was. I for one, am happy with their decision.
Linda

Sorry Diana but 15 is a young adult in my books. Look at Steven Truscott. He was incarcerated at the age of 14.
Diana1976

You missed the main point of comparing Khadr's treatment by Canada to the US treament of Lindh and the way Australians dealt with Hicks. The US and Australia didn't think it was right try accused citizens of their countries in a special less fair and notorious court system just because people hated them for being terrorists and/or traitors, or thought they shouldn't BE citizens because they hate them, or their families or people like them.

This has to do with comprehending principles of justice in a democracy and that citizens, whether you like them or not, are entitled to humane treatment and equally fair and legal trials no matter what they're charged with and no matter whether you hate them. And you can't just decide they aren't citizens because you don't like them either.

shrilalnka lanka

Fully agree with your statements.
Unfortunately, the Liberals have turned this country into a safe haven for terrorists, and we pay to feed them cloth them and educate them so they can turn against Canada and the free world.
Canadians showld wake up and demand from their politicians that this terrorist and his terrorist family be forced back to their Pakistan, where they belong.
Linda

Yes, too bad Canadians are such 'wimps' that we allow people like these to stay in our country.
Linda

Agree wholeheartedly.

Kevin

What amazes me is the fact that not one Muslim or group of Muslims have come out to show their disdain for Khader and his ilk along with his mother and sisters in supporting these murders and their contempt for Canada as a country while living off the Canadian taxpayer. Every Muslim's silence in Canada is deafening in their acceptance, toleration and for many their support of killing the young American Cpl Speers whose family I'm sure mourns his lost on a very regular basis. I too have a 25 year old son that works everyday, pays his taxes to all levels of Canadian governments and lives a decent life.
Khader should never be allowed back into Canada because we all know that he would be back out on the street within very few years or months planning his next murderous jihadist activity. He and his family make me sick!

WictorWictor

Does every Christian have to publicly condemn Eric Rudolph before we are satisfied that they are not terrorists? No. Why the double standard when it comes to Muslims?

Kev

No not every Christian…but 5 or 10 Muslims holding a rally or interview would be most heartning to see in support of their new country Canada.
Where are all the large Canadian Muslim Associations and their thousands of adherents demonstarting against Muslim Terrorism? They have come to Canada for a better life on the backs of the Canadian taxpayers with no regard for the loss of life and limb of existing Canadian soldiers. If they cared they would be in the news…the reality is for the most part Muslim Canadians don't care about Canada or Canadians. Where are all those Imans' support of Canada and Canadians…their agenda is certainly not in support of Canada. Make me wonder; how about you?

Diana1976

What does what other people did or didn't do (Khadr's father, mother, sister, all Muslims) have to do with whether or not Khadr who is a Canadian citizen as much as any other Canadian should have a fair trial? I'm glad people like you aren't running the country, or maybe they are.

Billy M

Khadr stopped being a Canadian when he took up arms against this fine country.

Steve

Because it's not Christians flying airplanes into buildings. Because it's not Christians that are cutting the heads off people in the name of religion. Because it's not Christians that think it's acceptable to stone women. Get the point?

TomJ

The Americans that captured him should have shot him then and there. And we would not be having this conversation. What was he doing fighting in in that war at his age. Those could have just as easily been Canadian soldiers that he threw the grenade at. Let him rot in an American jail,he is their problem not ours.

Diana1976

They did shoot him then and there. Twice, in the back, when he was unarmed and facing away from the action. They were required by law to not let him die of his wounds in prison so they gave him medical treatment. Besides he wouldn't have been much use for intelligence purposes if he was dead.

citizen_CA

It was a war zone, and he did not give up after one of their comrades in arms was killed. Don't try and make it sound like Omar was the victim.

Diana1976

In a war you aren't required to give up, or did you just make up that rule?

citizen_CA

You are right, but then you can't start making him out to be a victim if he chose not give up.

Linda

Yes, too bad they were 'compassionate' to him.

Alan

I am tired of hearing about terrorist's rights.You go to their country,burn their flag and see what it gets you.The bleeding hearts in this country are a minority but the media tends to lean in their direction;controversary sells news.You can't degrade a muslim in this country but try being open about christian values;then you will hear an outcry from the muslims.

TomJ

BRAVO I rest my case
WictorWictor

Why is it that "christian values" always seem to be about denying gays the right to marry, and obnoxiously inflicting their pagan solstice holiday on everyone

WictorWictor

Maybe if Christians tried being more Christ-like and less arrogant and presumptuous they might be more well received whenever they clamour onto their thousand-year-old soapbox
JenniferMack

Hmm… if you're actually responding to Alan (and not just getting up on a soapbox to sound off about Christians), first of all, the average Christian is going to be a heck of a lot more tolerant towards homosexuals than the average Muslim. I don't see Iran legalizing gay marriage any time this millennium. Secondly, the "pagan solstice holiday" you refer to is inflicted upon you by wild consumerism, not by Christians or Christianity – you seldom even hear "religious" Christmas carols in public places anymore, neither will you be wished a "Merry Christmas" either on a greeting card or at a "Holiday Party" for fear of giving offense (which is absurd, in my humble opinion).
sourstud

Ya, why can't Christians be more like Muslims when it comes to gays? Because we all know Muslims respect gay rights.

Diana1976

In this country we give citizens fair trials, regardless of race, religion, etc., and we should expect them to be treated the same way by foreign countries, and complain if they aren't. Stephen Harper said so by the way.

Re terrorists: Khadr isn't even charged with personally committing an act of terrorism (attacks that are intentionally directed at civilians, not a military target in a war.) The Bush Administration made no distinction between a fighter attacking one of their soldiers and a fighter blowing up school children on purpose. The US law has changed but it's not clear whether that idea is still accepted or not. Only time will tell.

true north

Diana1976 : Khadr isn't even charged personally with commiting an act of Terrorism…One of the five charges against Mr. Khadr is # 4) Providing Material support for Terrorism…..The other four charges are # 1) Murder in Violation of War Act. #2) Attempted Murder in violation of War Act . # 3) Conspiracy. #5) Spying. ………..

Diana1976

True North: "Providing Material Support to Terrorism" means that Khadr provided his personal services when he fought in the Afghanistan insurgency for two months, summer, 2002. He agreed to a mission arranged by his father with the head of a Lybian faction, to act as a guide and translator ("conspiracy"). He observed military vehicle locations and direction ("spying"/military calls it reconaissance). He took military training from the Lybian and helped make and place land mines (land mines are not illegal according to US) with a military target, and he participated in the fire fight with soldiers acting as soldiers not medics (murder/attempted murder in violation of the law of war). None of these are war crimes (violations of the international law of war) and are nowhere to be found in Geneva or Rome Statute which lists war crimes. There's a controversy over what the Military Commissions Act means by violations of the "law of war", if it's not necessarily international law of war as the Manual says. Khadr is caught in an 8 year legal experiment. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_i…

true north

'' Providing Material Support to Terrorism'' means that Khadr provided his personal services….. Your words , not mine.
Diana1976

But what it really means is not that he committed an act of terrorism which is what we usually mean by a terrorist. In this case, it means he fought as an insurgent in the Afghan war. And nobody's saying he didn't do that. He did. Search on US Defense Department Omar Khadr and see the charges and what they mean.

Terrorism means things like purposely blowing up civilians. This would be a war crime if you did it in a war. It's not the same as fighting in a war and aiming at military targets. This is not normally a war crime. It was only a war crime according to new policies of the Bush Admin which may or may not still be in effect, but, if so, these are not war crimes under international law, and nothing anybody ever recognized as violations of international law of war (war crimes). International law of war regulates how you fight a war. It gives certain rights to people who are part of regular armies. It doesn't give all those rights to civilians who take up arms or irregular armed groups (like Khadr), but it doesn't make them war criminals either.
sourstud

You can't plant roadside bombs and claim that you have a "military target". The chances of civilians being killed are equal to that of killing the "target".

It's also interesting how you continue to stress that land mines aren't illegal according to US law, then follow that up by claiming that every US law is illegitimate. Which is it?
Diana1976

It was the American government which claimed he had a military target, i.e. US military vehicles with the mines placed where they were expected to travel. That's what the charges on the Defence Department web site always said, but the confession might have other things as well. Don't know yet.

I don't know who declared US law illegitimate but it wasn't me. Bush made a decision to ignore it, and internatonal law, by placing the Gtmo prisoners in Cuba. That's what Cheney meant when he said they would become a nation of men and not laws, and go to the dark side of the intelligence world. The Supreme Court didn't agree with the approach and that's what lead to all the complications and the main reason Khadr's trial took 8 years and never really concluded for that matter, since a plea bargain is a way of just ending it based on a deal, one Khadr couldn't refuse unless he wanted to stay in Gtmo forever.

nicholas

Born in Canada, yet fighting on the side that kills Canadian and American soldiers, he is a traitor. Shed no tears for him . Think of underage Canadian boys who fought and died for Canada in two world wars. Canadian citizen ? A convenient refuge when divided loyalties don't work out.

Smitty77

Khadr, a Muslim, likely had more right to be in Afghanistan than any invading army. Have any of you in the lynch mob thought of the tens of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans killed and for what? An oil pipe line? You can be the U.S. didn't got to war to get rid of the burquas!

sourstud

That "invading army" was sanctioned by the United Nations and pretty much every country on the planet. And being a Muslim doesn't make him a citizen of Afghanistan anymore than me being left-handed does.

Linda

Agree 100%

Ron

When was the last time that a combattent in a battle in any war was charged with murder? What nonsence!! We are too afraid of the US military to call a spade a spade.

sourstud

Obviously you've never heard the name of Capt. Robert Semrau. He's a Canadian soldier who was charged with murder for killing an insurgent. That was 2009. Recent enough for you?

Ron

By golly, you are right; there was one! (That, charge, too, was farcical!) Not one politician of the many I have asked the same question has had the nerve to even reply to my inquiry. Speaking of murder do you suppose that any of the men who invaded the place where Khadr was hiding , in the process killing Khadr's compatriots, have been charged with murder?

gary

Not only should Khadr be kept out of Canada, his family – who live here and yet have nothing good to say about this country – should also be thrown out on their ears.

Linda

4 sure!

Mike

With Clinton involved, Khadr's return is probably inevitable, as will be the calls for his release ("rehabilitation"). He is more of a mercenary than a child soldier and once he finally admits his guilt, Canadian authorities should put him on trial for treason.

Bugzy

Along with our corrupt C.R.A.P party Mike. Now that would be justice.

JenniferMack

What a mess! I can feel some compassion for him, and certainly have no love for Guantanamo, but the fact remains that he committed a treasonous act against the country of his citizenship and her allies. He killed an American soldier. He and his family support terrorist aims. He was 15 years old, not eight – I can't support the "child soldier" argument.

If I had any confidence that returning to Canada would not result in a few years' jail time followed by release into the Canadian public, I might be able to make a case for returning him to our soil. But as it is, I feel Omar Khadr has forfeited the right to intervention and support from a country whom his family openly despises. He killed an American soldier – let him be tried and sentenced in the United States.

WictorWictor

He is ALLEGED to have thrown a grenade that killed an American soldier, although many witnesses contradicted the official story. He has yet to be convicted, even by a kangaroo military court.

WictorWictor

Furthermore, assuming it was in fact Omar Khadr who threw the grenade, he was a child placed in a situation in which he was forced to defend himself. Children lack the faculty of reason and therefore in any proper justice system he would not be held fully criminally responsible.

true north

Should Ottawa allow Omar Khadr to serve a prison sentence in Canada? , was the topic just in case you wanted to stick to it……just a thought.
WictorWictor

You vote me down but you don't respond because know it's true.

A 15 year old human is a child, by legal definition.

A person not convicted of killing is not a killer, by legal definition.

You loudly profess the virtue of Western civilization and values, and then quietly discard those values whenever it is convenient to do so. If Khadr is indeed a killer then PROVE it with evidence and due process. If he is indeed a killer, this should not be difficult to accomplish. Instead, you simply accept, without further inquiry, allegations levelled by an organization that has been found to lie, pathologically, throughout its history. You betray the tradition of empiricism and rational inquiry without a second thought. You do not appear even to understand our own principles with regards to criminal justice. Your lack of faith in Western values concerning justice and criminality could not be more obvious. Your hypocrisy is matched only by your intellectual cowardice.

I believe that you, and those who think like you, are a far greater threat to Western civilization than the likes of Omar Khadr could ever hope to be. Claims of our moral superiority over the uncivilized hordes grow shriller and hollower with each passing day.

true north

Your still not on topic…
WictorWictor

I am responding to the assertions made in the above post. You don't get to dictate the confines of this discussion.
true north

Allrighty then……I will try it this way, If you were to answer the Question that was asked…How would you respond ?
JenniferMack

WictorWictor, I think you need to take a deep breath. First of all, whether you're talking to true north or myself, to state, "You loudly profess the virtue of Western civilization and values, and then quietly discard those values whenever it is convenient to do so," is a pretty darn harsh condemnation of a person you've never met, and who has neither espoused nor discarded any Western values on this message board. Furthermore, as true north helpfully points out on more than one occasion, the question is, should Omar be returned to Canada? I say, no, for reasons stated in my first post – which incidentally seemed to get you hot and bothered enough to write a whole bunch of highly critical and completely irrelevant mumbo jumbo that has nothing to do with the question posed in the poll. I support your right to opine that Omar Khadr should be returned to Canada, much as I may disagree; but before getting so upset the next time the Kh-word comes up on this website, perhaps you should both consider the poll subject and actually read the comment to which you are responding before spouting off.
Wictorwictor

Well… what set me off initially was your statements: "the fact remains that he committed a treasonous act," "he killed an American soldier"

And at first I just wanted to remind you and anyone reading that this is an ALLEGED act, yet to be proven, even in military court.

Later I returned to see if anyone had attempted to address this distinction and I could see someone (not necessarily you) had read and disagreed with my comment — but didn't care to post a counterargument. And it made me kind of angry because while I have read hundreds of people saying more or less the same thing, "he killed an American, he is a terrorist, he is a war criminal, he is a traitor", I have yet to hear anyone actually defend this point of view.

So, I guess, do you or do you not believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. If so, why should this principle not be applied in Omar's case? If not, do you believe that our laws should be changed to reflect your attitude toward criminal suspects?
WictorWictor

And, just so we're all clear, I believe Omar should have been repatriated at the earliest possible opportunity
JenniferMack

First things first – I did not give you any thumbs-downs. :)

On a more serious note, I do believe in the principle of one being innocent until proven guilty, and you're right, I should have said that he "allegedly" killed an American soldier. That said, this poll asks, "Should Ottawa allow Omar Khadr to serve a prison sentence in Canada?", which implies a sentence after having been found guilty.

I don't think anyone can contest that Khadr was engaged in a treasonous act – whether or not he killed Speers, he was fighting alongside insurgents against coalition forces. He is also on video planting land mines while smiling and joking around. Pretty hard to dispute that. Lastly, though he has not been proven guilty of murder in military court, a civil lawsuit was launched against his father's estate by Speers' widow and Sgt Layne Morris (who lost the sight in one eye as a result of the grenade that K allegedly threw); Speers and Layne contended that Ahmed Khadr did not control his son, and as a result, Speers lost his life and Layne his eyesight in one eye. In Feb 06 the plantiffs were awarded $102 M, though that will not be paid until and unless A Khadr's assets cease to be frozen. Though O Khadr was not himself a defendant in this case, the court clearly agreed that he had thrown the grenade. So while I can agree that O Khadr's case has not been handled well and he has probably been mistreated, I do continue to view him as a terrorist, and do not seek his repatriation.

Regarding your question about laws being changed – I do support the introduction of laws to deal specifically with terrorists, as the issue is greater than simply that of a crime committed. As long as a person fundamentally believes that the destruction of innocent civilians is somehow right and holy, they are a danger to any society of so-called "infidels".
citizen_CA

Hogwash! The greater threat to the Western world are the likes of you who, instead of engaging in rational debate, cry INTOLERANCE the moment anyone offers a dissenting view. Now that is hypocrisy.
WictorWictor

Funny, I can't seem to recall accusing anyone of intolerance, only of being hypocrites who fail to observe the principle of innocent until proven guilty.
JenniferMack

And one more thing: 15 yr old Canadian "children" – high school students in the tenth grade – would dispute their "lack [of] the faculty of reason". I can just imagine using that excuse with a teacher or parent when I was fifteen for any misbehaviour.
Diana1976

"Child soldiers" (minors of 17 or less) who become involved in wars aren't treated differently than adults because they are thought to lack reason. It's because war and crime are different and the responsibility is different. It's one thing to go out and shoot a neighbour when you're 15 (no excuse) and it's another thing to be raised in a foreign country and join in a war along with your father and other men. Wars happen for complicated political reasons, in complicated situations, under complicated laws (why the trial has taken 8 years and still going). Most young guys even older than Khadr probably don't give a lot of thought to the reasons for the war if older people around them believe in it.

Canada should have asked for repatriation at the latest when courts started declaring his Gtmo process illegal and ordering repatriation. If Canadians wanted to try him for treason, lawyers had already presented a case to the government. It would have been a fair trial in a regular court. That's all most people who object to Khadr's treatment have ever asked for. Denying him that is contrary to democratic principles, for sure.

sourstud

He confessed to it, and plead guilty in court.

Diana1976

I think you raised a point about security and that's valid. It's probably the main issue, really. The US has some prisoners that are being kept locked up, with or without trials, because they are considered dangerous. The US said it will not even release people declared innocent by a court, if they are considered dangerous. Khadr wouldn't necessarily be released even on the outside chance a military commission declared him "innocent".

Khadr should be assessed for that, objectively. There is evidence that he wasn't dangerous when he was 15 because he was just going along with his parents and other adults. After 8 years at Gtmo, he might have become dangerous. If so, he should be put in some incarcerated or security controlled situation where there is some chance of changing that. US with Canada's agreement, helped make him more dangerous, instead of less, if he is. That's why we all have a responsibility.

JenniferMack

Thank-you for your thoughtful responses. You raise a good point about the distinction between a teenaged soldier and a teenaged criminal, and I agree with you that if Khadr had been returned to Canada immediately after the incident in Afghanistan, he would almost certainly have been a lesser threat to our security than he has the potential to be after eight years in Guantanamo Bay.

In my original post I refer to the situation as a "mess", and it really is. It's tough, because the real threat is his ideology… and how will his sentence, in either country, adequately encompass that? As you state, the US is prepared to keep a "dangerous" prisoner incarcerated indefinitely, so long as s/he is considered to be a threat to society. In K's case, even with all of the "wrongs" perpetrated by both CDN and US governments, the fact remains that until and unless he ceases to believe in the violent ideologies of radical Islam, he is a threat to whatever western nation he lives in. So as he allegedly killed an American, was fighting on the side of Canada's adversaries in Afghanistan, and has not lived in Canada since the early 90's, I do not feel he should be repatriated. That said, if he does return to Canada, I will be glad that there is one less prisoner at Gitmo!
sourstud

He was involved in a firefight with US forces, and threw a grendade that killed a man. You think he's currently MORE dangerous than he was then, yet you still want him released back into Canadian society? That is beyond dangerous.

true north

Canadian kills American in foreign Country, Americans catch Canadian, Canadian stands trial in America, '' If '' Canadian found guilty In America, he serves his Jail sentence in Canada, at Canadian Taxpayers expense for killing American in foreign Country…Hmmm something doesn't add up here does it ??
Alfun

If he pleads guilty, then he has admitted to being a terrorist/traitor to his country. He should serve his sentence in the US where he is found guilty and sentenced. He should then prove he is worthy of holding his Canadian citizenship, when released by the US.
Philanthropist

Khadr killed and terrorized people in Afghanistan, he should be tried and sentenced in that country. Afghans deserve to see justice being done too.

WictorWictor

Evidence?

sourstud

He confessed, and then plead guilty in court.

Mary

His own father did him no favors by dragging his own child into a foreign country to do their deeds. On top of that, there are international laws regarding minor child combatants that have been completely disregarded here, doubling the tragic disservice done to this boy-now-man.Their view, of course, is that the Americans had no business to be in that country either.

I think that a boy of 15 might have been able to ingest the folly of where he was and what happened to him if anyone had the authority or the will to intercede in his self-imposed predicament; but he is likely permanently warped now and a hot potato. I did notice how the Americans avoided most of the nasty international public relations they would most certainly have incurred by waiting to try him until the underage child sported a beard.

This person has been mismanaged by his own family, and the mismanagement will continue. He and his family should have been aware realistically of just exactly where they're living. Many of my casual acquaintances believe that the whole family should be deported as a result of where their sympathies appear to lie.

sourstud

You would think, at the very least, we'd be able to charge his mother with child-endangerment, or something like that, for knowingly sending her child off to fight a war in a foreign land.

minerals

I am sad that Canada had been asked to bring him home by the American Govt. and it refused. Canada has not paid attention to the fact that adults from other countries have been brought back to their countries from this military base and our Govt. has refused to bring back a man who was a child when he has supposedly committed an act during a time of war.

Shame!
Bugzy

He has not yet even had his day in court so just because your so in love with the CRAP party doesn't mean a person is innocent until proven guilty in a fair trial. how would you feel if you were stuck in some forign country and your PM ignored you and decided you were guilty without a trial and left there to die? Not very good I think. You are a sadistic poster.

sourstud

He confessed, and plead guilty. And the government does not need to intercede in every case where a Canadian goes abroad and does something terrible. It's called personal responsibility.

ResponsibleCanadian

Are we Canadians still trying to take the responsibility for the actions of Omar Khadr, one who does not even like Canadians?
His actions lead to the death of Sgt Christopher Speer, a Special Forces MEDIC, who had saved lives in Afghanistan. The same kind of medic that had saved Omar's life. The actions of Omar took away a husband and father. Who really is the victim here?

Diana1976

The soldier wasn't acting as a medic when he was killed. That information is used to make what Khadr did sound like a war crime, to justify the war crimes trial in a separate kind of court of a sort that might be used to try adults for real war crimes. He hasn't been convicted of killing anybody, but it's still not a war crime anyway.

Thousands of US soldiers have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention soldiers of other countries. There's something strange about this one 15 year old who fought in the Afghan insurgency for two months 8 years ago, being the only one accused of killing one, or wounding one, don't you think?

Canada should have called for repatriation as soon as courts started calling the process at Gtmo illegal, especially if all the other western democracies had by then, and if he was going to be given a trial, it should have been a fair trial in a legal process.

sourstud

He's not the only one who's been charged with murder in Afghanistan. Have you heard the name Capt. Robert Semrau? I'm sure you have, and I'm sure you wouldn't give him half the legal protections you'd give a scumbag terrorist like Omar.

Diana1976

He was charged but not found guilty of shooting a wounded and unarmed man. I don't know the circumstances. But I think these kind of wars are much more difficult for soldiers than wars between state armies. They should be avoided whenever possible, by support to a local group, covert operations, etc. The shooting of Khadr was similar. He was wounded and unarmed but the soldier might not have been sure. See report of the soldier, "OC-1". On the other hand, when Khadr threw the grenade, supposedly over his shoulder while wounded with his eyes full of shrapnel, one blinded, men were coming to kill him, and did kill the man with him and tried to kill him.

ResponsibleCanadian

I am pleased Omar did the responsible thing by confessing to his actions. He now needs to be held accountable. I do not think us responsible Canadians need to be paying for his incarceration.

Gerard

Keep him out.He has been so brainwashed by extremists,who got to his young brain at the right time that there should be no place in Canada for his likes.
mars

beyond me–why muslims –in the first place are being allowed into Canada–eventually–not in my life time– they want 2 take over–tha'ts what it's all about. Kahdars family– should not be allowed 2 stay either—-his mother said– she would teach all her sons– 2 kill–so why are they still here? Sure– we must h vae compassion for people that want 2 reside here & obey the rules & laws of the country–but it's time 2 close the gates on the –would be criminal types!!! Need more jails– which are being proposed!!!

blah.

And what presupposes a "criminal type?" One who is of muslim faith? One who is of a different skin colour and/or ethnicity?
What your saying is completely backwards and baseless, if you're going to make statements like that at least have something to back you up. So far you just sound unbelievably ignorant…
DerekPearce

this is parody, right?
aysha

wth why are u targeting all Muslims, when the only few bad Muslims. Omar Khadr should be allowed back in this country. he was brainwashed by his father from the beginning of his childhood. he was brutally tortured by Americans, should there not be a limit to torture. his humans rights were violated. he was alleged of throwing a hand grenade, there was no proof.

Lyle Henderson

I am a liberal but this young man was so programmed by his father that he probably can never be a useful member of society unless turned over to an American style deprogrammer and then a highly skilled phyciatrist. He is highly unlikely to receive that in either Canada or the US. Otherwise he will come home to a lifetime of Welfare and enough distrust that he will never be able to work. So why not let the Yanks pay his keep as long as they will.

Diana1976

Human beings aren't like machines. A 15 year old is absolutely capable of following along with the ideology of family and friends and learning it was wrong. The US was legally responsible for assisting in his rehabiliation when he was captured and Canada had a legal responsiblity too because he's a Canadian citizen by law, whether people like it or. That's in accordance with the international law both Canada and US adopted.

Now the US has made rehabiliation far more difficult if not impossible, and they certainly should pay the cost of that. 90% of the problem arose from their illegal treatment and obsession with prosecution. Canada still has a responsibility but toward him, in terms of re-integration subject to security. The US should definitely pay all the costs. And part of the deal should be Khadr should drop the law suit. That was for millions and he would have won, surely because the Harper government didn't take any meaningful action in response to the Supreme Court declaration yet, and their meaningful action could be to cooperate on this.