Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

The Commons: Checking in on Michael Ignatieff's inevitable doom

by Aaron Wherry on Tuesday, November 30, 2010 6:26pm - 177 Comments

It is a tradition that binds us together as a nation, our eternal obsession over the ever-imminent downfall of our elected leaders. And so we return now to the question of just how profoundly, unavoidably, indisputably screwed is Michael Ignatieff.

At last report, he was most immediately doomed by Monday’s by-elections. As the conventional consensus had it, the Liberal party was to lose all three. Defeat in the former Liberal stronghold of Vaughan would be particularly resounding—it would be what Outremont was to Stéphane Dion. What once was a Liberal caucus of 77 would be reduced to a mere 76. Everything else would subsequently come crashing down around Mr. Ignatieff. By Christmas, he would be deposed as leader. By spring, he would be bussing tables at Harvey’s on Elgin Street. His household’s cats, Mimi and Eric, would hiss at him when he returned home from work each day.

As the day dawned on Tuesday in the capital, it was but a trifle that Monday night had not at all gone according to plan. The Liberals had indeed lost Vaughan, but by just less than a thousand votes. Meanwhile, the Liberal candidate in Winnipeg-North was victorious in a riding the party had not won in 17 years. What was a Liberal caucus of 77 is still a caucus of 77. He had broken even. He had exceeded expectations.

Rest assured, the Liberal leader is still destined to soon be asking the public not for their support, but rather whether they’d like fries or onion rings with that. “Vaughan by-election loss adds to Ignatieff’s woes” explained a Globe headline this morning, that atop a story that spoke ominously of “Michael Ignatieff’s troubled leadership.” “For Ignatieff,” preemptively eulogized a Conservative operative now lending his analysis to the National Post, “his days are numbered”

Though a doomed man, he arrived this morning to the House foyer looking mostly undead.

“Good morning,” he said after adjusting the microphone for his height. “Just a few thoughts about the by-elections.”

A couple dozen reporters huddled around to hear just how and when he had decided to resign in shame.

“When we look at these results, what we’re seeing, I think, is the next election is shaping up as a clear two-way choice, Liberal, Conservative,” he said, seeming to assume, somewhat boldly, that he’ll still be around whenever the next election is called. “You want an alternative to the Stephen Harper government, you want social compassion, fiscal responsibility, environmental action, international engagement, you vote Liberal at the next election. That’s, I think, the conclusion we draw.”

It was puzzling for sure to hear Mr. Ignatieff speak in this way. Was he not once a journalist? Has he forgotten the effort that goes into constructing a narrative—the time and energy that is spent connecting random and isolated events into simplistic and easily digested assessments? Does he not understand the obvious meaning that can be derived from the votes of 70,000 individuals in a country that saw 13-million ballots cast in the last election?

He praised the candidate and volunteers in Winnipeg, as if that mattered. He lauded the effort of the Liberal in Vaughan, as if anyone was listening.

What, someone asked, was the message to be taken from the party’s defeat in Vaughan?

“The message is there’s a Liberal vote there, we have to get it out,” he ventured. “Mr. Fantino was the star candidate, expected to walk, expected to just stride into the House of Commons of Canada and he learned that a peek-a-boo campaign will cost you. He learned to never underestimate the Liberal party and we feel confident we’ll get it back in the next election.”

This was a decent effort at offering an alternative theory, but it lacked the snappy simplicity of saying that Vaughan was his Outremont: the Quebec stronghold Mr. Dion lost in 2007, thus foretelling his demise in that province and elsewhere. (For the sake of the preceding sentence, it is generally advised that one ignores the Elections Canada figures that show the Liberal seat and vote count actually improved in 2007 under Mr. Dion from the result in 2006 when Paul Martin, having fulfilled expectations of a 200-seat majority into perpetuity, led the party.)

“My lesson from today’s election: roll up our sleeves, we’ve got more work to do,” he continued awhile later, apparently declining to acknowledge that this work is most obviously futile.

“Look, I respect how all Canadians cast their vote. I’m just saying, when you look at what happened, in Winnipeg-North and elsewhere, the Green vote negligible, the NDP vote falls … We think that as you reflect on those results, you think, yeah, there are two choices at the next election: there’s a Liberal choice and there’s a Conservative choice,” he added, continuing to reject one reality and substitute his own. “And anybody who wants to get rid of this government … those people have got to look at those results and think, if we want to get rid of Mr. Harper, there’s only one place we can go.”

He did little to repress a smile, the corners of his lips turning upwards as he spoke. And he bent at the knees to emphasize various points as he does when he is excited. He seemed not to understand that his fate had already been decided.

A dissenting scribe spoke up that Vaughan was a “warning sign.” “I mean, you guys held that riding for a generation and in waltzes Fantino and he wins,” he recounted.

The debate was now semantic.

“The word waltz, I’d have a question,” Mr. Ignatieff laughed. “He had to fight hand-over-hand-over-hand. He thought it was a going to be a waltz, it was a dog fight. So everybody draws lessons.”

The scribe grumbled.

“The lesson I draw is roll up your sleeves,” Mr. Ignatieff persisted, “we’ve got more work to do.”

A short while later, Jason Kenney turned up at the same microphone to pronounce upon the Conservative party’s great gains and mispronounce a half dozen times the Liberal leader’s surname.

“This,” he declared, “is a time of reckoning for Mr. Ignatieff.”

A day then pretty much like any other.

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  • madeyoulook

    By Christmas, he would be disposed as leader.

    Deposed, perhaps?

    • Mulletaur

      Indisposed ?

      • DPT

        disposed of

  • madeyoulook

    “You want an alternative to the Stephen Harper government, you want social compassion, fiscal responsibility, environmental action, international engagement, you vote Liberal at the next election. That’s, I think, the conclusion we draw.”

    One draws all these conclusions from a handful of by-elections? Really? In what warped mind does one manage to draw all those conclusions from a few overall-meaningless events?

    An alternative to Harper, fine. All those other wonderful things? Learned from a few by-elections on a single day? Yeesh.

    • JonnyBoy

      But don't forget, this was 70,000 votes in a country that cast 13 million!

    • hollinm

      Lets never say that Ignatieff is prone to exaggeration. It is only the PM that is guilty of this faux pas and must be exposed. Just like the time Ignatieff said he went to public school in Canada. Just like all the flip flops about the coalition, on taxes. torture, employment insurance etc. etc. You will never see that on this blog. However, you will see the evil Mr. Harper and his shenangins at every opportunity.

      • madeyoulook

        To be fair, "this blog" actually did quote Ignatieff's whopper of nonsense that I mocked.

      • burlivespipe

        Hollinhead comes up with another zinger. Just a few hours after shushing people for daring to point out his sacred ze leader's habit of stretching facts into undeniable fibs.
        What a prize. Please start the 'How long before Harper's Bizarre World comes Crashing Down?' stories now…

    • tim

      Canadian in last election and few bi-election casted the following : "We want an alternative to Harper and Iggy"

  • Crit_Reasoning

    In the grand scheme of things, byelection results are not particularly meaningful. Still, perhaps there is some significance in the fact that Harper has picked up more seats in byelections than any other prime minister since Confederation, and he's the only prime minister in Canadian history who has contested byelections and never lost a seat.

    Ignatieff might want to ponder why this is so. With the Winnipeg North win, the Liberals have picked up a new seat in a byelection for the first time since 2003, to balance the seat they lost. The Liberals are now 1 for 7 in byelection wins since the last election. Their popular support seems to be stuck in the high twenties, a few percentage points shy of historic lows. 59% of Liberal voters don't see Ignatieff as the best choice for prime minister. The Liberal party is divided on Afghanistan, and decidedly mixed on the question of Ignatieff's leadership.

    Clearly, Ignatieff has a lot of work to do. The byelection results don't portend doom and gloom for Ignatieff, as some have suggested, but the challenges he faces are still quite daunting.

    • MyOpinion

      I'm just fine with people not totally realizing that Harper is actually a great Prime Minister. It gives him more leeway to do what he wants and what he wants is what the people want, whether the Opposition likes it or not. But they seem to have a hard time to understand the people.

      • Emily

        'The people'…..you mean, Cons.

        • MyOpinion

          I'm just fine with people not totally realizing that Harper is actually a great Prime Minister. It gives him more leeway to do what he wants and what he wants is what the people want

          Emily, if you want to call the people Cons, go ahead, but as long as the Cons are in power, that represents the people.

          • Emily

            Harper is possibly the worst PM in our history.

            And no, Cons aren't 'the people'….that's just more Con hokum, said by a party with fingernail hold.

          • D.D.S

            Reformers would be more accurate..the Progressive Conservative party died… and you can blame MacKay for that. "Cons" are 30% of the "people"

          • maurice

            that's a lot more than any other group, and they put their money where their mouth is, to boot.

          • D.D.S

            Good for you.

    • hollinm

      Crit_Reasoning….good comments…

      Don't tell Wherry and Wells any of this stuff they don't want to hear it. Rather they want to focus on how the PM exaggerated his record of by-election wins and the record needs to be corrected otherwise Canadians may make the wrong decision come the next election. Afterall we know that no politician in the history of our country has ever exaggerated his/her accomplishments.

      Now we have another blog from Wherry on how wonderful Michael Igantieff is and how he actually survived. Message to Liberals. Elections are not determined by a vote in Manitoba. They are in Ontario though. The loss is significant.

      I would just point out one thing. The sun will come up tomorrow but that won't change the fact that many Canadians and particularly a lot of Liberals are not interested in Michael Ignatieff no matter how hard you try to spin the results of last night's by-elections.

      • Feral Liberal Cub

        "Elections are not determine by a vote in Manitoba. They are in Ontario though. The loss is significant."

        Why…why…you sound like one of those Toronto-centric liberal media elite types who thinks that the world ends outside 416/905 country…

        The last two elections showed that Harper can't recapture the combined PC-Reform/Alliance vote of the 1993, 97 and 2000 ballots. All polls have shown that since fall 2009 he hasn't been able to recapture even his 2008 support. I'd say that that shows that a persistent 2/3rds of Canadians "are not interested in" Stephen Harper. And while he may get a third minority government, what good will that do him or anyone in his base if he has to keep triangulating to avoid alienating just a few percent of his soft supporters and blowing it all. As former fellow travellers like Tom Flanagan have come to realize, Harper is no longer motivated by the old Reform philosophy of Western power or the Republic message of burning down government. It's all about clinging to power at all costs, which is a sad game for an ideologue like Harper.

        • hollinm

          Just to remind you. This is a new party made up of a number of factions. To expect that all the different groups would simply fall under the new banner is naive. There may be 2/3rds of the electors support other parties the fact is the Libs are in even worse shape. So you can talk about history but we are all iving in the realities of 2010.

          Are you suggesting that Ignatieff would not want even a minority government? Right! The fact is politicians run to win and even if it is a minority the next time out at least the Conservatives are in control of the government. It is a helluva lot better than sitting in opposition.

          By the way you have no idea what does or does not motivate Harper. So don't presume to speak for him. You sound very bitter that the Libs cannot beat him no matter how much they try. Try getting a real leader who can outmanoevre Harper and the Conservatives. Maybe then the Libs will win government again. Going with Ignatieff is a none starter. By the way if 2/3ds are not interested in Harper as you suggest. Even more are less interested in Ignatieff.

          • Emily

            WHAT is a 'new party'???

            Cons are forever invoking Sir John A and other leaders, so kindly stop pretending about the Reform party.

            Harper btw has no traction and isn't getting anywhere either

          • hollinm

            Anything you say Emily. Harper may not be getting any traction as you suggest. However, Michael Ignatieff even less so.
            There are only two choices come the next election and I rather like the odds of my guy versus yours even though you say you are not an Ignatieff supporter.

            I really didn't understand what you were talking about. The "new" Conservative Party is made up the old PCs, the Reformers. small C Conservatives etc. It has nothing to do with Sir John A. Read the post again.

          • D.D.S

            My family of "Old PC'S" stopped supporting Harper when we realized he spent money like a drunken sailor and paid NO attention to science….He will be stuck at 30% forever methinks..

          • GOLEAFSGO!!!

            HA HA you tell him hollnim! IFFY is a LOSER! Hes not even a real Canadian anyway! HARPER is the man. He will kick that traiter IFFYS butt in the next election and then we will finally get the goverment we need! Bye bye welfare! bye bye stupid "enviromental" laws! You LIEBRALS and your commie buddies in the NDP are gonna be crying for decades when you see what we do with a majroity!

    • Matlock

      As the discussion has moved to this thread, I will restate what I said earlier:

      "… he's the only prime minister in Canadian history who has contested byelections and never lost a seat."

      Since 2006, only 1 out of 16 byelections called even featured a Conservative incumbent, and given that contest was Tory stronghold Dauphin-Swan River-Marquette, saying Harper has never lost a byelection seat is not a terribly impressive or insightful factoid.

      • Crit_Reasoning

        That's a fair point. In the next byelection, the seats held by Jim Prentice and Jay Hill will be contested, and both of these seats are in Tory strongholds as well. It will probably be quite a while before we have a chance to test whether Harper can hold on to seats in a byelection involving a riding that isn't a Tory stronghold, especially since there are so many strongholds.

        The fact remains that Harper has picked up more seats in byelections than any other prime minister since Confederation, all in five years. Two of these byelection seat gains were in Quebec; one was in Ontario, one in Saskatchewan, and one was Bill Casey's old seat in Nova Scotia.

        • madeyoulook

          a byelection involving a riding that isn't a Tory stronghold, especially since there are so many strongholds.

          Yeah. And Harper's got all those successive majority governments to prove it!

          I humbly submit that Harper would feel better having so many MORE strongholds than he's got at present.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            I completely agree that Harper wants more strongholds. The point I was making is that the Conservatives already have many more "stronghold" ridings than the other parties. 90 – 100 Conservative ridings (mostly in Ontario and the West) could be considered "strongholds", compared to perhaps 40 Bloc ridings, 30 Liberal ridings, and 15 – 20 NDP ridings.

          • Emily

            No, Cons have their stronghold in the west. They'd vote Con even if Harper ate live puppies on TV.

            Not so in the ROC

          • Crit_Reasoning

            Emily, I'd appreciate it if you took the time to actually read my comments before you hit the "Reply" button. I said that the Conservative strongholds are mostly in Ontario and the West. This is a fact, and it's ridiculously easy to prove. All you have to do is look at the election results.

            Also, your "eating live puppies on TV" comment is disgusting. It shows how much contempt you have for voters who don't agree with you.

          • Emily

            You are as wrong about this as you were about the Reform party and I.

            Sorry.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            You're telling me I was wrong about you not belonging to the Reform party???

          • Emily

            Well if you'd stop doing drive-by-smears without sticking around for the answers, you'd know I was a riding president in the party.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            Let's see what Google has to say about that.

            Six weeks ago, Blacktop said this about you: "By her own admission she has been Reform, Alliance and Pro Con."

            To which you replied: "Mmm no, sorry. I was PC for 30 years. I checked out Reform. Never met Harper, nor was I in politics at the time." http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/10/14/master-of-his-…

            So which is it? Were you lying then, or are you lying now? Since I have a really hard time picturing you as a Reform riding president, I'm guessing you're lying now.

          • Emily

            Yes, I just didn't elaborate on 'checked out Reform' since you don't need to know about my personal life.

            You are already obsessed enough with it. LOL

            You can't 'picture me' at all CR…you have no idea about my life, appearance or even gender.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            Whatever, Emily. I don't believe for a second that you were a Reform riding president. I'm sure I could spend a few minutes on Google and dig up other old comments where you say you were never in the Reform party, but what's the point?

            You're quite right that I have no idea about your life, appearance or gender, nor do I care. All I can go by is what you say, and what you say is notoriously unreliable.

          • Emily

            Here's a flash….I don't give an airborne intercourse what you believe.

            And no, you won't find any comment, anywhere, about my not being in Reform because I've always said that's how I know who and what they are.

            You simply make stuff up about me….someone you''ve never met and by your own admission know nothing about.

            If you spent half as much time thinking things through, as you do obsessing about me you'd might have a coherent philosophy.

          • JonnyBoy

            Children children…..do I have to send you to your rooms again?

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            We can send Emily to her room!?!?!?

            Awesome.

          • SamDavies

            I'm looking, but I can't seem to find the button for that functionality. Alas.

          • SamDavies

            C'mon CR – You don't really have a slam dunk here. You're basing your decision on bias against Emily. I hear you – Emily is often full of hot air comments that she can't really back up, but it doesn't prove she is exaggerating here.

            If she was a PC supporter for many years, is it so unrealistic to think she could have made the jump? My understanding is that there were many that at least checked things out. Even I was charmed by Reform for a period in my life.

            I'm not sure where Emily is from, but when Reform moved into Ontario, I'm sure they were reaching anywhere and everywhere to get people to help out in this foreign territory, especially if they had previous experience.

          • Emily

            LOL damned with faint praise!

            Actually I've backed up everything I've ever said on here with urls. Somehow people tend to skip over that. LOL

            I was never 'charmed' by Reform, I just decided to check out what it was about…and hoped for the 'fresh wind from the west' they claimed.

            Turned out to be warmed-over Socred hogwash, but it was an interesting experience.

            Yes, I'm in Ontario…and yes, Reform was at a loss in 'foreign territory'.

            They still are.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            Actually I've backed up everything I've ever said on here with urls.

            This isn't even close to being true. It's almost as if you're experiencing an alternate version of reality.

          • Emily

            Sorry, I have done so every time. Bad habit of mine I picked up years ago.

            Everything is sourced.

            I realize you don't like it….but then you like very little in life.

          • SamDavies

            C'mon Emily – You may feel this to be true, but as an outsider peering in, I can assure you this is quite the stretch. I've seen you make plenty of bizarre claims with little to no actual support. This is why CR has a hard time believing you.

            Several times, you justify things with a "I realize you don't like it….", or "Somehow people tend to skip over that", but you're not actually proving anything – you're just stating that you believe your opinion is more valid.

            You may think you have made yourself clear on certain things, but aren't you slightly biased in making that assessment? Rest assured, on several occasions, like CR, I've had no clue where you were coming from. I'm not actually saying that you are wrong (in what you are saying) all the time, but it may be that you are not articulating as well as you think you are.

            Reminds me of:

            "Inconceivable!"

            "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

          • Emily

            Sorry, I've sourced everything I've stated on here.

            My opinions are of course my own….as are everyone else's…still legal in this country as far as I know.

            I can't judge how clear I've been to others. As far as I can tell I've been perfectly clear….but I've seen 3 word sentences get misinterpreted on here so who knows….LOL

            I don't recall ever using the word 'inconceivable'….doesn't remotely sound like me.

            Another thing I've noticed on here is that people confuse posters.

            Now really…don't you two have better things to do with your time?

            No one attacks other posters like this, so I fail to see why I'm the 'lucky' one.

          • SamDavies

            But I'm not actually attacking you. In fact, it could be argued that I was kinda sorta defending you. Or at the very least, I was trying to be reasonable.

            I take it you have not seen the movie "The Princess Bride" (1987)? Great movie. The quotes I used ("Inconceivable!") are from a scene in that movie.

          • Emily

            LOL well you're doing a good imitation of it….so please stop 'defending' me.

            Why on earth would I remember dialogue from a 1980s kids movie???

          • SamDavies

            Distinction is within the details Emily. Sorry that you cannot see that.

            It's a great movie. Many adults hold it close to their hearts. I first watched it as an adult and very much enjoyed it.

          • SamDavies

            [youtube 1-b7RmmMJeo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-b7RmmMJeo youtube]

          • SamDavies

            Are people seeing this as an embedded youtube clip? When I first posted, it was embedded. When I refreshed, all I see is code.

          • Emily
          • SamDavies

            You didn't actually answer my question, which is really kinda annoying.

            When you are writing a comment, above the comment box is the "Embed video" link, where you can enter the youtube url, and the video is supposed to be embedded in the comment box.

            When I first insert the video, it seems to be working – I can see the video itself in the comment field, and I can play it. When I refresh my browser, this is no longer the case – all is see is the bracketed code with the url.

            Yes Emily – I know how add a link in the comments. I'm just trying to figure out if this is a problem with my browser, or if it is some sort of universal glitch @Intense Debates. I've used this functionality previously without problems.

            Can anyone answer my question – Is there a visible video box in the comment box above?

          • Claudia Lemire

            Is @ Intensedebate, having trouble too!!

          • SamDavies

            Thanks for getting back to me on this. I've sent an email to Intensedebate support to see if they are aware of this issue.

          • Claudia Lemire

            YW, the other day my son texted this back to me and I realized I need to learn a whole new english language, hahaha, I have enough with one !!

        • Mike T.

          It certainly would have been interesting if they'd run a guy with limited name recognition in Vaughan. One that they might not know offhand but who showed up for debates.

  • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

    It must be very hard for Mr. Wherry to have his preferred leader face such media scrutiny. The agony! I know.

    However, for what it's worth, I actually believe that Monday wasn't such a bad day for the Liberals. After numerous predictions of a Fantino landslide, it ended up being very close. AND they actually took a seat away from another party. Why isn't that something to boast about for a party that hasn't had much to cheer about, especially after by-elections?

    You also gotta love the NDP line after their loss of the seat. It went something like this: How dare you Liberals brag about winning a seat with a superior candidate! Damn you!

    Nevertheless, the Conservatives won two out of three, and continue to make inroads in the GTA. Despite Mr. Wherry's tendency to score points by parsing politician's words, Harper is right to suggest that governing parties can be punished in these things. Instead, they were rewarded. Not a huge night, but they come out the best. Liberals not so bad, thank you very much. Dippers are still waving their fists in anger!

    • gottabesaid

      I can't believe I'm saying this to you, but I think you're giving the Liberals slightly too much praise. There's not much to cheer about when you're basically spinning your wheels — and I think that's the best the Liberals can say after last night: they didn't lose much ground, but they didn't gain much either. Otherwise, I think your sum-up is bang on.

      • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

        I know these are just by-elections, but they are what we like to talk about on here. And isn't taking a relatively safe seat away from the NDP something to boast about, especially for a party that hasn't had much to brag about lately after by-elections?

        • gottabesaid

          Maybe… but imagine you're Michael Ignatieff, and you look at the road you need to travel to get to the PMO. Are you really feeling like you made any ground? Nope. He wins here, he loses there. No momentum, no traction with voters. Whatever he and the Liberals are doing isn't working.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Well, at the risk of sounding like Mr. Aaron Wherry himself ( I know, I'm coughing hard myself right now!), just what does Iggy have to do to show some progress? Again, we're talking about the by-elections. So, any larger assessment of party progress is perhaps fodder for another thread. So, given that these are by-elections, and Libs have done miserable in them lately, isn't stealing one pretty good, and almost stealing another (at least when it comes to expectations) also pretty good?

            What you seem to be suggesting is that the by-elections don't matter. You might well be right. However, given the undue influence they have on the political narrative, don't these by-election improvements by the Liberals matter even a little bit? For example, could Dion have had any hope of performing like Iggy did Monday? I very much doubt it. Don't you?

          • gottabesaid

            You could be right… but when the newspapers the next day are saying how much trouble you're in, the optics outweigh any real positive significance of the by-elections. That's just my impression, that the wheels are spinning. And, really, if there's any real significance of the by-elections, it's the optics the day after.

            But, as you said, it's somethin' to talk about!

          • Emily

            Iggy could have been PM ages ago if he'd gone with the Coalition, but he didn't.

            Harper has no momentum either, no traction.

            So whatever he and the Cons are doing isn't working.

          • gottabesaid

            I'd probably agree with that assessment as well… Harper has his 30 per cent base, but getting what he needs for a majority isn't much closer, or any closer, than two years ago, or four years ago. Traction isn't just a Liberal problem.

          • Emily

            No it isnt. Nor is it a Canadian problem.

            Voters are in 50/50 mode everywhere.

          • hollinm

            Tell me Emily how Ignatieff was going to head the coalition? Dion was leader and Ignatieff and Rae came out and supported him as leader and PM in the coalition. Are you trying to re-write history? Dion would never have given up the leadership if he became PM and you damn well know it. Wise up and quit with the propaganda yourself.

          • gottabesaid

            It's all speculation. It's speculation that Ignatieff would head the coalition, since the leadership was still up in the air. As far as Dion giving up the reins of power, he said he would… and Dion has never struck me as the power-hungry type.
            http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/01/coaliti…

            But who knows, maybe he'd cling to power. Speculation.

            Make of it what you will. Bit of a tangent if you ask me!

          • JonnyBoy

            WOAH…Snap!!!!

          • burlivespipe

            Yeah Emily, don't try rewriting history — that's hollinshed's job title… Changing facts, one cup of koolaid at a time…

  • Gordeaux

    Wherry, you are a funny, funny dude, and dark as hell. Love your work. Read it every day. Best thing on this site.

  • JonnyBoy

    That was cute.

    One thing: no amount of satire can hide the fact that even if Ignatieff were to take up serving burgers and onion rings, he would not be serving myself, but my friendly neighbors to the south. Amirite?

    • Feral Liberal Cub

      Uarewrong. However, when the Fat Leader loses, gives up or is pushed out by Peter Mackay and his cabal, fair to good chance he will move to the US of A and return to his real views of the rest of us, that we aren't worthy of his vision.

      • hollinm

        You must be living in the kool-aid drinking Liberal lala land that occupies the left of the political spectrum in Canada these days.

        • D.D.S

          I read the speech Harper gave in the U.S………and it seemed Harper loves the U.S. and was embarassed by Canada…..and I would like to point out that not everyone who disagrees with harper is a "kool-aid drinking Liberal"….and the Harper supporters should really try to understand that….

  • Richard_S_Argent

    “Look, I respect how all Canadians cast their vote. I’m just saying, when you look at what happened, in Winnipeg-North and elsewhere, the Green vote negligible, the NDP vote falls … We think that as you reflect on those results, you think, yeah, there are two choices at the next election: there’s a Liberal choice and there’s a Conservative choice,” he added, continuing to reject one reality and substitute his own. “And anybody who wants to get rid of this government … those people have got to look at those results and think, if we want to get rid of Mr. Harper, there’s only one place we can go.”

    Well that settles it, coalition it is!

  • kcm

    '… … We think that as you reflect on those results, you think, yeah, there are two choices at the next election: there’s a Liberal choice and there’s a Conservative choice,” he added, continuing to reject one reality and substitute his own. “And anybody who wants to get rid of this government … those people have got to look at those results and think, if we want to get rid of Mr. Harper, there’s only one place we can go.”

    That's not a bad strategy for Ignatieff to adopt. The spin being that the 70% or so of the voters who don't vote conservative and all those who really want an alternative to Harper should consider a liberal candidate…will it work? Who knows. But it may be his best hope.

    • JonnyBoy

      Thank you for reminding me of the other point I wanted to make. Well, more a question really: Is Isnatieff seriously considering Jack Layton's "lend us your vote" strategy? That's going to be great to watch. And like you very astutely observed, perhaps it is his best shot. Sigh.

    • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

      You mean promise to be the head of a coalition against Harper?

      In fact, isn't this kind of bifurcation exactly what Harper wants? On one side, me. On the other side, Iggy and his coalition? Can Iggy really expect that the last three words be dropped from the equation?

      • D.D.S

        Coalition is not a scary word. Harper seems to be the one MOST scared of this. Seems pretty democratic to me. Right now we have a man in the PMO who has 30% support. I have to say this coalition boogyman Harper wants to use isn't working….at least not with me or mine…

        • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

          Don't some of you get tired of repeating these same slogans over and over again?

          If coalition isn't a scary word, then why do so many of you get terrified every time Stephen Harper utters it?

          And Harper's party has more support than any other in Parliament. He's formed the government. That's democracy.

    • SamDavies

      It's not a bad spin. It was predicted that the Libs would lose all seats, but the end result was much more positive – an unexpected win, and a close loss. Point the finger at who was shut out – the NDP. Instead of actually going for a coalition, try to persuade the others that it is a 2 horse race. Crappy for democracy, but it would certainly increase their chances…

      • Observant

        Yes, an unexpected win in Winnipeg North where the NDP fielded a FN candidate in the midst of a riding beset by aboriginal violence and criminality. Why did the Dipper-loving North Enders suddenly decide that neocon Ignatieff was their Liberal saviour and the Liberal vote quadrupled unexplainably … and overwhelmingly rejected the NDP FN candidate ..??!!! Answer that …!!!!!

        • D.D.S

          what are you talking about???

        • SamDavies

          I can't answer anything as your post seems to lack a certain degree of coherency.

    • Observant

      Ignatieff won't survive as Liberal leader much longer because the Liberal party faithful will not follow him into any next election, as they did with Dion, except this time it will be even worse because everybody knows that the 30% Liberal party brand is leading the 15% Ignatieff. Liberals in the trenches know it's futility when your leader is sucking down the party brand.

      • D.D.S

        One could say the exact same thing about Harper. What's your point?

        • SamDavies

          I think he's pretty much trying to say that he does not like Liberals.

  • ZestyMordant

    I'm very curious to see what Fantino will be like in the Commons (or a cabinet post). I didn't know much about the guy until the recent coverage of the byelection, but he certainly seems to have a reputation for controversy. If the Conservatives try to sell him as a law and order guy, they open themselves to attack based on his past ambivalence to law and order (i.e. Caledonia).

    To be completely cynical about it, this byelection loss could potentially work out very well for the Liberals. Fantino could turn out to be a significant millstone around the collective Conservative neck. Check out the comments below Scott Stinsons article in the National Post for a taste.
    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/11/30/sc…

  • JonnyBoy

    "The Liberals had indeed lost Vaughan, but by just less than a thousand votes. Meanwhile, the Liberal candidate in Winnipeg-North was victorious in a riding the party had not won in 17 years."

    This line warrants at least two comments. First, if it's worth noting that the Liberals won a riding that they had not won in 17 years, why is not worth noting that the Liberals lost a riding they had not lost in 22 years? No really Wherry, I'm genuinely curious and am really asking? Coyne responds in the comment section, surely we and our feeble attempts at understanding are not below you?

    Second, if it's worth mentioning that the Conservative candidate in Vaughn won by only less than 1000 votes, why is it not worth mentioning that the Liberal candidate in Winnipeg-North won by only less than 1000 votes? Again, I'm really asking.

    • gottabesaid

      My impression was that Wherry was offering a column that ran counter to the prevailing commentary of the day… which was that Ignatieff is a dead man walking. He was offering another side to that story which has been told by others all day. Just my impression.

    • David_M.

      It's worth mentioning that the LPC was competitive in two of the three ridings.

    • SamDavies

      "Coyne responds in the comment section"

      But only at his leisure. I had a serious concern I addressed, but he has opted to ignore it.
      Was hoping to be surprised with a response, but pretty much figured he would duck.

      I can understand why Wherry does not play with comments. He provides content on a daily basis, and if he swam in comments, it would be so time consuming.

      • kcm

        It's noticable that the participation rate of all the maclean's stable has sharply declined in the last year or so; probably it's pressure of work. It's a pity though, as it's made blog central a less interesting place to be.

        • Blue

          The less interesting part can be traced directly to the arrival of Emily.

        • SamDavies

          This may be the case for overall participation, but not for my specific issue with Coyne.
          I have no doubt that he read it – I posted it right went his article went online, immediately after he had posted a comment himself. He simply does not wish to answer it. The government does not have the monopoly on ducking things that they do not wish to discuss. Media bias is a funny thing. The issue I am raising is not a right or left thing – it is a problem of completely ignoring certain things all together. Instead of saying they are for or against something, they simply don't have any discussion whatsoever…

  • orval

    Where did these comments about Vaughan being an easy Conservative win come from? I read several journalists opinions, and certainly Warren Kinsella was opining on the weekend it would be a Liberal rout. But Conservatives? Unless I missed something, all I heard from Conservatives was…."safe Liberal seat….uphill battle….it is going to be hard…..it will be close…etc."

    I heard Delacourt on Power Play say Liberals deliberately spun up the "massive" 10,000 vote loss so when it was a close loss it could be spun as being a moral victory. I don't know if that is true but judging from the Liberal spin today it is plausible. A 10,000 vote loss is impossible when only 30,000 people actually vote.

    A loss is a loss. Mr Belivacqua got 49% to win in 2008. Mr Fantino got 49% to win in 2010. As the Liberals well know, the road to power goes through the ridings of Southern Ontario, not those in Winnipeg. The Vaughan results show that there is no such thing as a safe Liberal seat anymore.

    The story of the night has to be the dismal NDP results. I mean, less than 2% of the vote in Vaughan? They lose a seat in urban western Canada, that they won last time with over 60% of the vote, to the Liberals (who beat them last night by more than 6 percentage points and who only got 9% of the vote in 2008)? It must be interesting to be in the NDP caucus right now.

    • SamDavies

      I agree with regards to the NDP. Talk about ouch! Smart strategy for Iggy to exploit this "2 horse race", thus taking off the MSM concerns on his leadership issues.

    • Observant

      The Liberals didn't "win" the Winnipeg North riding … the stupid NDP fielded a FN candidate in the midst of a riding that is beset with aboriginal violence and criminality!!! Wpg North Enders fled from the NDP and flocked to their second choice, the Liberals. Why do you think the Liberal vote percentage quintupled .. you think they suddenly embraced neocon Iggy to express their hatred of Harper ..??!!!

  • Anon 001

    Whatever they pay you at Maclean's, Wherry, it isn't enough. You should write a book — just cobble together your "The Commons" columns. It will be a wonderful narrative.

  • Amateur Hour

    The Liberals win a riding WEST of Ontario — from the vote bleeding NDP no less — and this is a BAD thing for Iggy?

    • Richard_S_Argent

      Everything is always bad news for Ignatieff. Even when it's good news, it's still bad.

      Just ask Taber :)

      • SamDavies

        I've reached the same conclusion. Anything and everything the man does will always fall under scrutiny. Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. If it's not the external enemies sniping at him, then its the internal ones. Not a fun position to be in…

  • Gabby in QC

    "Mr. Fantino was the star candidate, expected to walk, expected to just stride into the House of Commons of Canada …"

    Yeah, something like another star candidate, who was expected to walk, straight into 24 Sussex, eh?

    • Richard_S_Argent

      308 ridings vs. 1 riding.

      Otherwise, bang on.

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    And the Bloc Afghanistan motion that was going to demonstrate just how completely divided the Liberal Party is? (Emily almost had me convinced that Rae and Ignatieff would vote one way, and the ENTIRE LIBERAL CAUCUS would vote the other).

    Turns out every Liberal who was in the House (all but 5) voted with Ignatieff, three Liberals were absent but paired with NDP or Bloc MPs to mitigate their absence, and two Liberals were sick.

    • Emily

      LOL well since I said they'd be whipped, that's funny but untrue

    • West Newf

      Liberals are united in their support of Harper!

      • Emily

        No, but Iggy and Rae are.

      • LdKitchenersOwn

        Sure, but no less so than the NDP or the Bloc are occasionally united in support of Harper. Plus, it's not exactly SHOCKING that the Liberals might support Harper in a case where Harper is ADOPTING LIBERAL POLICY.

  • West Newf

    Liberals live in a dream world if they think this is a win. No matter how narrow the loss, it is still a loss. Let me offer an edit on this article. "how profoundly, unavoidably, indisputably screwed is Michael Ignatieff" and the Liberal Party of Canada.

    • Emily

      Libs were in worse shape with Turner and then 3 majorities in a row….parties go up and down.

      • West Newf

        Ya you just keep believing that dear little Libby! That was then. Times have changed and Liberalism is a dead ideology.

        • Gayle

          Oh no! You have totally destroyed the morale of liberals everywhere with your hard hitting "analysis".

          Ha ha ha ha ha

      • JonnyBoy

        Emily, do you have an "url" to support this?

      • hollinm

        Yes they go up when there is no opposition. When there is opposition they are reduced to a minority and then to the opposition benches. Right where they belong. Huffing and puffing about process, tactics and strategies that has seen them turned into a rudderless party.

    • John D

      How is losing a seat you had and winning a seat you didn't have = rofoundly, unavoidably, indisputably screwed?

      • hollinm

        its called making no progress. As I tried to explain to Gayle. At some point the Liberals and Ignatieff need to make gains on the Conservatives if they ever hope to win back government. Ignatieff is 1 for 7 in by-elections. ignatieff's leadership polls have not improved and in fact have gotten worse as Canadians have gotten to know him. To suggest that a leader who is polled behind Jack Layton in leadership qualities is going to win an election is not reality. Call it what you will. It is not a formula for success.

        • D.D.S

          "its called making no progress"……….The Reformers have been stuck at 30% for years now….

          • hollinm

            Uh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://rodcroskery.wordpress.com rodcros

    Ah, Mr. Wherry. Your columns with their wry humour are strangely addictive, rather like "How's It Made?" on T.V.

  • tedbetts

    In any normal, evidenced based universe, the treatment by "The Media" of Paul Martin, Stephane Dion and now Michael Ignatieff would once and for all, forever seal the lid firmly shut on the ridiculous notion that "The Media" is always and forever out to tear down the Conservatives and push the Liberals back into power.

    Alas we do not.

    And so with each passing year, with the ever growing list of excuses for Harper's inability to grow beyond his large base or develop any kind of plan, to the tin foil hat brigade, despite all objective evidence to the contrary, pardoxically concludes ever more firmly that "The Media" is out to get The Harper. In this parallel bizarro world, the constant forcing of ever new negative narratives onto Ignatieff are in fact evidence of "The Media" is only getting more desperate and impatient to unseat The Harper.

    Sigh.

    Eventually they'll get bored with the "his demise is imminent", just as they got bored with "the Liberals are so divided" and "the Liberals have no policies" before that and "he's just visiting before that". They'll find some new narrative until "They" get bored with that. Maybe the next one will be "he's so resilient, what a fighter, coming back from certain doom (as we ourselves told you) so many times".

    Ah, and that is when the tin foil hat brigade will jump up in ecstatic exhaltation and cry out "See! Bias! Bias! Bias! We told you all along."

    • Crit_Reasoning

      The problems faced by the Liberal Party are both real and serious. You can't blame the media for accurately reporting the incompetence of the last three Liberal leaders and the general decline of the Liberal Party since 2004. These are demonstrable facts.

      • tedbetts

        Who is doing that? Not me. Read the comment.

        • Crit_Reasoning

          In any normal, evidenced based universe, the treatment by "The Media" of Paul Martin, Stephane Dion and now Michael Ignatieff would once and for all, forever seal the lid firmly shut on the ridiculous notion that "The Media" is always and forever out to tear down the Conservatives and push the Liberals back into power.

          I took this to mean that you thought "the Media" treated Paul Martin, Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatieff unfairly. No?

          • tedbetts

            No. I am attacking the strongly held but completely fabricated myth of a Vast Leftwing Media Conspiracy of bias against the Conservatives and to get the Liberals elected. You would think that looking at the largest media chain out there, Sun News, and CTV, Global, the Globe (Jane Taber in particular), the Post, the choice of commenters/pundits at CBC, etc. that there would be no way to make the claim, yet they do and they believe it so deeply.

            Too a lesser extent I am also attacking the media for its false narratives. Sure the Liberals have problems, but these are all narratives they have attempted to impose on the facts instead of reading from the facts.
            I am also attacking the media

      • SamDavies

        But how can it be that the leftist biased media is doing this? I do not understand. Only Harper is a victim of the unfair media monster.

        Without a doubt, the Liberal party does have problems, and the media is jumping to exploit this. But it certainly busts up that long held (by many Con supporters) view that the media only discriminates Harper.

        • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

          You think the CBC is not a biased left of centre mouthpiece than?

    • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

      Is that why Liberals kept the Sea Kings and Chalk River Facility?

  • hollinm

    Ah but Gayle while that may be true at some point the Libs are going to have to win something, anything if they ever hope at obtaining government again.That is not a recipe for winning an election no matter how you try to spin it.

    A record of 1 for 7 does not indicate that Ignatieff is lighting the fires of Canadians. In fact the opposite is true. His leadership polling numbers have him coming in behind Layton. In fact a majority of Liberal supporters don't have much use for him.

    • Gayle

      If there were 6 by-elections in ridings where only the Bloc could possibly win, and Harper lost them all, would you be saying the CPC are doomed?

      Because I am pretty sure what you would be saying is that everyone knew there was never any chance of a Harper victory in those by elections anyway.

    • Gayle

      It is amazing how easily a conservative argument can be defeated when a few facts are thrown into the equation.

      ha ha ha

      • hollinm

        Gayle….you missed the point or ignored it so that you can spout your talking points. The fact is at some point Ignatieff has to win something, anything if he wants to form the government. Full stop.

        Based on your argument and the number of seats that the Libs hold i.e. 78 they are not competitive in a lot of ridings. So therefore according to you they should not be expected to win. Yikes!

        • Gayle

          Sure he does, but the fact he does not win seats no one thinks he can win is not evidence of anything. And no one said the only seats he can win are the seats he already holds. No one is also saying that any party can win any of the seats, because you would have to be completely ignorant of the Canadian political scene to believe that.

          So actually, YOU are the one who missed the point.

          • hollinm

            This is utterly idiotic even for you Gayle.

  • subversible

    Mr. Wherry

    I have been critical of your column in the past. However, I must admit I enjoyed this fine example of glass-is-one-sixteenth-full optimism. Keep up the good work!

    • john g

      Ditto for me. This is one the best "Commons" articles of yours I've read. Your dry sense of humour shines through on this one.

      Curious that you did not mention the fire alarm interrupting QP for the 3rd time in the last few weeks…

  • tedbetts

    In any normal, evidenced based universe, the treatment by “The Media” of Paul Martin, Stephane Dion and now Michael Ignatieff would once and for all, forever seal the lid firmly shut on the ridiculous notion that “The Media” is always and forever out to tear down the Conservatives and push the Liberals back into power.

    Alas we do not.

    And so with each passing year, with the ever growing list of excuses for Harper’s inability to grow beyond his large base or develop any kind of plan, to the tin foil hat brigade, despite all objective evidence to the contrary, pardoxically concludes ever more firmly that “The Media” is out to get The Harper. In this parallel bizarro world, the constant forcing of ever new negative narratives onto Ignatieff are in fact evidence of “The Media” is only getting more desperate and impatient to unseat The Harper.

    Sigh.

    Eventually they’ll get bored with the “his demise is imminent”, just as they got bored with “the Liberals are so divided” and “the Liberals have no policies” before that and “he’s just visiting before that”. They’ll find some new narrative until “They” get bored with that. Maybe the next one will be “he’s so resilient, what a fighter, coming back from certain doom (as we ourselves told you) so many times”.

  • bettie

    This is slightly off-topic, but I was wondering Aaron if you could enlighten us on who the P.M. crossed the floor to talk to when the fire alarm went off. And, would you have any idea what it would be about?

    • AaronWherry

      Didn't realize that made it to television.

      He walked over to joke with Mr. Ignatieff. They had a laugh and then everyone cleared out.

      After the all-clear, the procession of MPs heading back into the House included Mr. Ignatieff and James Moore walking side-by-side in deep conversation.

      Lest you fear these people aren't in fact capable of human interaction with each other…

      • bettie

        thanks for telling us.

  • Observant

    Vaughan: The NDP vote fell from about 8% in the general election to less than 2%. Did this anti-CPC vote switch strategically to the Liberals? Prorating the NDP vote would mean an extra 1000 votes for Genco. Hard to say.

    Winnipeg North: Why did the NDP vote collapse and the Liberal vote quadruple from the previous election? Some speculate that the old ethnic voters in the Wpg North End rejected the NDP aboriginal candidate given that it's the aboriginal virtual urban reserve in the southern part of the North End that creates the violence and criminality.

    An examination of the vote by polling stations may reveal that the southern aboriginal neighbourhoods voted NDP but the northern neighbourhoods switched to the Liberals as their next logical leftist choice. Even the Filipino vote went Liberal to stop FN Chief from winning the riding.

    Racism? You bet .. which means Ignatieff won nothing in Vaughan or for that matter in Wpg North.

    • kcm

      Idiotic conjecture.

      • Observant

        Why would you call the truth "idiotic conjecture", have you never heard of Occam's Razor .. and you fear getting cut up ??!!!

        • kcm

          The simplest explanation may often indeed be the best one, but that doesn't give you sole ownership of the 'truth'
          Do ou have anthing more to go on then ' some speculate…' or 'An examination of the vote by polling stations may reveal…' ? Not much to hang the 'truth' on OR or no.

    • SamDavies

      Talk about taking a stretch here. Are you really thinking you can dumb things down to such a level? Can you honestly say that you have some sort of universal understanding of how and why people vote the way they do? In Vaughan, were the people who did not vote Con or LIb "Anti-Italian" (because they did not vote for Italian candidates)?

      Hear thee, hear thee citizens of Wpg North! Your electoral choice is irrelevant, for you are a pack of racists. Why do you hate the troops? That is all. LoL!

  • WestNewf

    No, right on the money!

  • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

    Ted,

    I did not raise the At Issue Panel as the principal left leaning example of bias.

    Do you believe the CAGW alarmists have had the same treatment and balance of coverage as "deniers", skeptics?

    Ted I am aware of the APEC – Peter Donolo letter to the CBC: Terry was pushed off APEC and reinstated months later.

    Do you believe the CBC a crown corp, right to privacy is more important than ANY other crown corp?

    YES or NO

    Many NDP-Liberal supporters believe CBC to be balanced or right wing and have excused the CBC from the same requests being used against other crown corps and government.

    In my entire voting spectrum from NDP-CPC I have NEVER believed the CBC to be balanced.

    Omission of facts and spending money to cover topical without context makes for tabloid style "news". Experts with ties to NDP-Liberals are identified as such?

    How much free publicity was given to face book group organized by persons with NDP background as grass roots and non partisan?

    The stranded single mother who was trapped? (She went to visit her husband and has a sister)

    I have seen the opposition demand accountability in every department and agency of the Government. They have spent months demand access to expenses, email, notes and records. Why are the opposition immune to be critical of the CBC?

    (BTW 2 or 3 question in QP does not qualify as balanced respect for taxpayers money) Where is the scrutiny for the CBC from the opposition Ted?

    • tedbetts

      I'm really not that interested in talking about the CBC because this is a distraction and avoidance from my comment. You've already made your mind up despite all the facts to the contrary, surprise surprise. Fine.

      But my comment was focused on the obvious lack of bias in "The Media" that is usually claimed like gospel by conservatives which is rather hard to support when they are swallowing Tory talking points whole and rather unfriendly with their invented media narratives on the Liberals.

      • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

        You raised "Media" CR called you on it.
        Sam Davies raised a "unfair media" I countered with CBC.
        You than decided "the media" is the CBC.

        I was specific and limited to criticism of the CBC did not highlight a show or news programs.
        I did did NOT make a generalization "the media" but cited SPECIFIC examples.

        Ted thank you for proving my point. I did not attack or call the CBC the media but did illustrate the left runs away when examples are raised.

        Thank you for demonstrating an unequal treatment contempt for all crown corp and privacy requests.

        • tedbetts

          CS, you would do well by taking a course in basic English grammar and writing. Your "comments" would be much more understandable. Most of the time I have no idea what you are rambling about.

          I was talking about the myth of liberal bias/anti-conservative bias in the media. You whine about the CBC, a single media organization that has been as attacking on Liberals as Conservatives (and even confirmed by independent election news watch studies). Then you whine about privacy and Facebook and the NDP and who knows what else.

          After your grammar course, I would recommend a course in logic and specifically logical argumentation. Maybe you have a point somewhere in there, maybe not. Who can tell.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Ted you raised it CR called you on it.

            I only raised specific examples with ONE specific media outlet. Did not whine or generalize.

            You are now trying to change the channel and proving my point. The CBC bandwagon is full of Liberal-NDP supporters.

        • SamDavies

          You've taken this thread as an opportunity to rant your feelings on CBC (which is no doubt something that can be debated, but really is taking the discussion in a different direction).

          The issue is the use and abuse of false excuses that shift the debate from reality. It really bothers me that when the media raises important questions about the conduct of government, instead of discussing the facts of the matter, many right wingers buy into and cite the left wing media conspiracy as a means of invalidating any substance.

          I'll concede that there have been times where the media was really fishing with regards to how they have reported on the current government. But the fact of the matter is – at the end of the day, the media will exploit anything and everything, so long as it helps generate both interest and sales.

          IMHO – the "media bias" card is way over played, and this in turn marginalizes the instances where it should be a point of discussion.

          How useful would it be for Liberal supporters to yell out accusations of right wing media bias with regards to how Iggy is being treated by the media? Useless, as it a false narrative structure.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Sam I did not make a general sweeping statement that the media is a left leaning Liberal mouthpiece.

            I have ZERO problem with our media including the CBC in taking our Federal Government to task, it's their job.

            I was very narrow listed a few examples from a single media outlet. (That's it)

            I gave four or five specific examples of CBC bias that could have been refuted with facts.

            Recap: I become the target for grammar and political affiliation, not a single counterpoint to the 4-5 examples I raised about the single media outlet. Goalposts have been moved to "the media" which I NEVER attacked.

            It would have been more effective to provide proof my examples were not biased left leaning pieces?

          • SamDavies

            I feel like we are speaking two different languages here. Your tangent has little to do with what is being discussed in this thread, as started by Ted. I'm not actually trying to prove that there is no bias in the CBC. I simply find it funny that Con supporters are loving the fact that the media is against Iggy. If the media is leftist bias, should they not be shouting against this message, because clearly the media is lying? They do not, because in this case, they like what they are hearing. When they don't like what they are seeing, they'll once again play the bias card.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            1) Ted is called on his generalization by CR
            2) You chirp in with your comment "Cons" are the victims of media bias
            3) I ask you about CBC bias
            4) Ted jumps in shifts my CBC question to you "the media"
            5) You and Ted ignore my narrow criticism of a single outlet 4-5 examples
            6) You suggest Conservative supporters are silent, happy if Wherry pokes fun at Iggy.

            You assume I take Wherry's blog seriously?

            The LPOC have serious issues and the by elections did not change it. The left of centres voters lost 25,000 in the three contests from 2008. The CPC lost 13,000k.

            The left are cannibalizing their base or did their base just not bother in 2010? What was the reason in 2009?
            NDP down 8k in WPG north, Lib down 9500 in Vaughan. NDP only improved in Dauphin from General election raw votes in 2008.

            I keep getting asked to refute a statement I did not make. I asked you about the CBC and provided back up to my question to you. The tangent has been you and Ted in my opinion.

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