Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

The Commons: 'This is about victims'

by Aaron Wherry on Monday, December 6, 2010 6:58pm - 105 Comments

The Scene. After members of each party had risen to note the 21st anniversary of the murders at l’École Polytechnique, the leader of the opposition stood to add his acknowledgment and to wonder, on the occasion, why the government had once more delayed the implementation of regulations that would make it easier to track the movement of firearms.

In the Prime Minister’s absence, John Baird stood to offer the government’s response. “Mr. Speaker, I think all of us, in all political parties, each and every member of Parliament takes today to remember the tragic loss of some young women who had promising futures,” he said, quite solemnly. “That is something that I would not want to be political on.”

There was a groan from the opposition side at this.

“What I can say,” Mr. Baird continued, “is that our government is committed to making our communities safer and we are committed to working with law enforcement on meaningful gun control that actually works and makes those communities safer.”

This was not quite an answer to the question at hand, so Mr. Ignatieff tried again. When, he wondered, would the government learn from the massacre of 21 years ago and give the police what they required?

Mr. Baird responded here with pitch-perfect passive aggression: not at all a direct answer, but a series of sentences that leave just enough to interpretation as to neither reject anything nor commit the government to anything going forward.

“Mr. Speaker, the law already states that all firearms must have a marking unique to that firearm. We believe in gun control, gun control that works, gun control that will actually make our communities safer,” he said.

Only after offering this did the House leader pronounce and denounce upon the Liberal side. ”We also believe in putting violent offenders in prison for more time than the lax policies of the previous Liberal government,” he said, noticeably picking up steam. “That is why the Minister of Justice, that is why the Minister of Public Safety have brought forward a whole series of legislation to ensure that Canadians can be safer and we hope the Liberal Party will get on board and help us pass this legislation.”

All of which certainly sounds good. Though it would certainly sound even better if Mr. Baird’s government had some idea whether its policies toward putting offenders in prison for longer periods of time were either a) likely to deter crime or b) all that more severe than the previous sentencing standards.

Now safely removed from the hushed memorializing of moments earlier, the House found itself in the midst of another futile debate on crime and justice.

“Mr. Speaker, the government is not credible on the crime issue unless it is tough and maintains the gun registry,” Mr. Ignatieff shot back, prompting groans from the government side. “The government is now delaying measures that have been asked for by chiefs of police, by police associations for years to assist in the tracing of imported weapons. No one can understand why the government listens to the gun lobbying and does not listen to the police and the families of victims.”

There was not, even technically speaking, a question here, but Mr. Baird stood to respond all the same. ”The reality is that the leader of the Liberal party and his party are just not credible on crime,” said Mr. Baird, now fully exorcizing his partisan vigour. “We see that each and every day in the House. We see that each and every day in committees of this place.”

This ended with a pronouncement of “shame” on both the Liberal leader and the Liberal party and then it was Liberal Raymonde Folco who stood to note that victims of crime, the RCMP and even the newly elected Conservative Julian Fantino had expressed support for the gun registry. “Will the Prime Minister,” she wondered, “listen to the families of victims and keep the gun registry?”

Over then to Vic Toews, the Minister of Public Safety, to mouth various platitudes. “Mr. Speaker, there has been no party in the House that has been stronger on the rights of victims and standing up for victims against violent criminals,” he objectively declared. “Our government is committed to making our communities safer. We continue to support gun control measures that assist law enforcement in protecting our communities and the safety and security of the public. I wish that the opposition, rather than standing up and constantly defending the rights of criminals, would actually stand up for victims.”

Here then was a logical conundrum of the first order: Ms. Folco’s question being in line with the position taken on behalf of victims by federal ombudsman for victims of crime Sue O’Sullivan, herself a former police officer. Not that one can reasonably expect logic to be applied on this matter.

“Mr. Speaker, this is not about the rights of criminals,” Ms. Folco snapped. “It is about the rights of victims and would-be victims.”

“I agree, Mr. Speaker. This is about victims,” Mr. Toews concurred, before once more lamenting that the official opposition was not dutifully enough supportive of his government’s initiatives.

And so we are agreed about everything and nothing at all.

When Question Period was through, the Speaker called for all to stand to mark the national day of remembrance for violence against women. For a moment the House fell entirely silent. This was, no doubt, the most reasonable few seconds of the afternoon.

The Stats. The environment, 11 questions. Crime, seven questions. The deficit, four questions. Afghanistan, three questions. Government spending, the CBC, the census and employment, two questions each. National parks, the economy, aboriginal affairs, arts funding and women’s shelters, one question each.

John Baird, 15 answers. Jim Flaherty and Vic Toews, four answers each. James Moore, three answers. Tony Clement, Diane Finley, Stockwell Day and Bev Oda, two answers each. Peter MacKay, Gary Goodyear, Leona Aglukkaq and Rona Ambrose, one answer each.

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  • brooster2

    I assume AW meant that Baird was "fully exercising [not exorcizing] his partisan vigour".

    Indeed, if Baird actually succeeded in "exorcizing his partisan vigour", the House would be a noticeably more civil milieu.

  • chet

    Yes, if we could only get back to the more "civil milieu"…when Liberals were in power.

    Oh how civil society needs to have back…..

    - the public mocking on national television of deeply held religious beliefs with the use of cartoon stuffed animals,
    - ads on television depicting the major opposition party as a Nazi-like militaristic enterprise that will occupy our cities with military force,
    - and the ever "civil" stealing of taxpayer dollars through money laundering and brown paper bags, under the perverted guise of saving Canada from the seperatists.

    Oh, how we all long for the "civil milieu".

    The milieu when the Liberals were in power.

    • brooster2

      There goes chet, madly off in all directions…a classic case of digital attention deficit disorder.

      • chet

        Pointing out the use of a cartoon dinasour to mock the other side by Liberals, as a juxtaposition to the claim that Baird is "uncivil" is sheer madness. Madness I tell you.

        • Emily

          Weren't you the guy on here sneering at coffee-drinking secular elitists in Toronto just last night?

          • chet

            Let's assume for the moment, your characterization is fair and accurate (a liberal assumption…excuse the pun), it's revealing that your standards for public discourse by Liberal officials is that which you'd see from anonomous commenters who you'd describe as a "troll".

            My how far down we lower the bar for the Liberals.

          • Richard_S_Argent

            "Let's assume for the moment, your characterization is fair and accurate"

            Shall we go to the tape, folks?

            "Fantino's plain speaking, and his unwillingness to abide by the forced taboos ascribed in the "progressive" speak rulebook, may not make him welcome in university faculty lounges, downtown Toronto coffee shops, or at media coctail parties, but to the vast majority of Canadians, saying it like it is, will certainly be welcome."
            http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/12/04/julian-fantino…

        • Gayle

          I must have missed that time when the liberals trotted cartoon characters into QP.

          Unless, of course, you were referring to something that took place OUTSIDE the House, and did not include an elected MP or something.

          Anyway…

          • Emily

            Chet's just talking through his touque again.

            Apparently it's a deeply held article of faith for him that men rode dinosaurs.

          • Gayle

            You know. When you don't take him seriously and just laugh at him instead he's kind of amusing.

          • Emily

            As long as neither he nor his ilk are running the country, yup. LOL

          • hollinm

            However, we are running the country Emily and we will be after the next election. Get use to it. Then you and Gayle can continue to wallow in your misery.

          • Richard_S_Argent

            Oh? I wasn't aware I was in the presence of Stephen Harper…my mistake.

            ;)

          • hollinm

            Glad you now realize it :-)

          • Emily

            No, you aren't, and no you won't be.

            So put your plans for the Inquisition on hold.

          • hollinm

            You can deny it all you want but in your heart of hearts you know that Stephen Harper is currently the Prime Minister of Canada and is being opposed by a pack of want a bees. He has complete control of the government and the country. Despite the whining by the likes of you Nanos believes that a majority can be won without Quebec.
            The coalition issue is going to raise its ugly head in the next election and Ignatieff will be fighting everyday to say he does not support a coalition which nobody will believe.

          • Emily

            Iggy could have been PM long ago if he wished to be…still can be in fact.

            And no, Harper doesn't have 'complete control' of the country…are you daft?

            What is he, Herr Harper now??

            5 years later, and Harper is no more loved that he was before….and would lose seats in any election.

            Cons may not like the idea of a coalition…even though they tried for one….but Canadians may welcome the idea.

            Only Cons would try to win an election by telling people….'Boy you just wait till WE are in charge, and we'll make you all sorry!'

          • brooster2

            Yeah, Harper has pretty much torched his chances in Quebec. Unless I'm mistaken in my Canadian history, a CPC majority without Quebec would be a first.

            More likely, another CPC minority awaits us, in which case coalition options will no doubt be explored (depending on the post-electoral seat distribution). I suspect that Harper knows a Liberal/NDP plurality spells trouble for him. And any movement toward strategic anti-Harper voting during the election will give him the yips.

            It ain't over 'til it's over.

          • hollinm

            I would draw this to your attention which is hot off the press by one of the most respected pollsters in the country: http://www.nikonthenumbers.com/

          • Emily

            2 weeks ago it was 'hot off the presses' that both parties were at 29.

            And 2 weeks from now it'll be the same again.

            She goes up, she goes down, she goes round and round….but neither party is getting anywhere and hasn't for 5 years.

          • brooster2

            So what? You know as well as I do that the polls have shifted incrementally in one direction or another with no party commanding a stable margin for any length of time, month after month for the last four years.

            Harper isn't going to engineer his defeat to get an election now and, if the last four years are any indication, Nanos' current numbers will be dust in a month.

          • hollinm

            I do not agree. The Conservative numbers have been stable at 30%+ but the Lib numbers are going nowhere i.e. between 25 and 29 and we all know it. It is not about the Conservative numbers. It is about the numbers for the Libs. If they do not move above the 30% range consistently at some point they will not stand a chance of forming even a minority government and to rely on forming a coalition government is not smart.

            The other issue is Canadians attitude towards Ignatieff. They are luke warm if you can call it that when the leadership numbers are done by any polling firm. That means when the real test comes many Canadians will be asking themselves do they want a man who has lived out of the country for 34 years running the country.

            I agree that Harper is not going to engineer his own defeat. However, Vaughan is a shocker for the Libs and I suspect Ignatieff will not be too anxious to bring down the Conservatives over the budget. Even if he did he needs the other two parties to support him. However, since the Dippers swim in the same pond as the Libs what is good for the Libs is not necessarily good for the Dippers. Wpg. North is a perfect example and will give Layton pause.

          • Pat

            Vaughn was not a shocker for the liberals. They were saying they expected to lose for almost the entire campaign, as did most of the pundits.

            By-election + name recognition = win.

            Just ask the NDP in Winnipeg North.

          • hollinm

            They may have publicly said they expected to lose Vaughan but the fact remains they actually lost a seat that the party held for 22 years. It tells them the Conservatives are breaking into the 905 area and it won't be long before some of the other Lib. MP's start losing.
            The story in Wpg. North was that the Conservatives did not put up a credible candidate so the electorate chose the one with the biggest name recognition.

          • kcm

            Con win had nothing to do with name recognition; liberal win was down to name recognition…consistent as always holinm.

          • hollinm

            I never denied that name recognition helped the Conservatives win Vaughan. My point is that the win is a symbolic event that does not bode well for the Liberals. The Conservatives have not been able to win many ridings in the 905 and many of the pundits see this as a break through event. Don't be a pinhead.

          • kcm

            Fair enough.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            The large base in 3 ridings for all three parties did not show up.

            From 8300-9500 voters in WPG North, Dauphin and Vaughan.

            It hurt both the Liberals and NDP and they lost to a challenger.

            WPG North ran a law and order campaign, good team on ground. Judy lost against the Mayor.
            Maurizio easily won against the Linda Jackson but was unavailable to help Tony-Ignatieff hold the riding?

            The votes showed up for Maurizio but not for Tony.

            Why is NO ONE asking why he bailed on the Liberals?

          • E_B_

            I think all you have demonstrated with your comment is that the core vote for Conservatives remains at 30%+/-. They are the committed voters who wouldn't change their minds even if Mr. Harper slapped them in the face.

            The polls go up when the Conservatives essentially stay under the radar. They go down when they do something that is mind-boggingly stupid; which they are wont to do every once in a while.

            An effective marketing campaign during the next election could certainly exploit this…

            I take no comfort in either direction from polls. Clearly, the electoral position is volitile, and the swing voters really haven't made up their minds. Wait 5 minutes and run another poll; you'll get a different result.

          • hollinm

            Once again. Harper has the job. He is the PM of Canada. Ignatieff wants the job and so if he is unable to improve the party's polling numbers and improve his own leadership numbers the Libs will not win the next election. No poll over the last five years has suggested that the Libs have momentum. Not even Frank Graves the Liberal friendly pollster can pull off that feat.

            You mention an effective marketing campaign. It works both ways. Thus far Igantieff has been on the losing side of trying to define the Conservatives. The public still prefers Stephen Harper. The Just Visiting ads if run again could be even more devastating for Ignatieff.

            It is not complicated. You can talk about the Conservatives all you want if it makes you feel better but the fact is the Libs are going nowhere with 25-30% in the polls.

          • E_B_

            With all due respect, other than the jibe about Mr. Harper having the job (nyah,nyah,nyah), you can turn everything around and say the same thing about the Conservatives. In 5 years the Conservatives are really no farther ahead than they were when they were first elected with a minority government.

            Yet, you and others, cheerily announce the latest favorable poll, and ignore the one that comes out two weeks later that put Mr. Harper right back where he started. Neither Mr. Harper nor Mr. Ignatieff have any traction with the electorate.

            In terms of a marketing campaign, the Conservatives have only managed to maintain the status quo with regard to whichever leader the Liberals have put forward. I would suggest that in spite of what you consider to be an effective campaign, the results have not shown a significant shift.

            All I am saying, is that the Liberals have not mounted an effective marketing campaign, yet. If they did, would it have better results?

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Liberals lost power in 2006 to CPC and held control of Senate. In 2006 they raised 9 million. Liberals held 103 to 124 CPC.

            I could go with real data or metrics but apparently you think those a new marketing campaign on the internet publicized by the CBC will make a difference.
            The War room should hire you immediately.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Are your referring to the actual votes number of MPs in General elections and by elections sent to Ottawa?

            They actually matter. How is your team doing in comparison?

            All those "stupid" things since 2006 have really put a dent in the CPC and helped the Liberals. (Look forward to your numbers)

          • Richard_S_Argent

            Allow me to draw your attention to the following chart:
            http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_I1p1RgLpXfo/TP0LoVpdC-I…

            oh those pesky historical facts…

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            His polls usually have the CPC lower than actual results, so the 38 is closer to 41. Angus was most accurate in 2008 and Ekos 2nd.

            The lollipop guild is very upset, they just lost Vaughan after 9500 Liberals voters refused to cast a ballot for Tony.

            The balance sheet is closer to Dion's 2008 level of $ 5.8 million. Voters and donors did not materialize from the 2009 hype of the 'Iggy mania'.

            The Liberals are reduced to running internet spots, sparsely attended high school events and making appearance on the CBC for publicity.

            It is a bad time to be a Liberal as voters are turning away from the Big Government more spending narrative.

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            I won't disagree that voters are staying away from the Liberal party in general. The part where you implied that Liberals hold the monopoly on "Big Government more spending narrative" made me spit my coffee all over my screen. Where have you been the last four years? "Canada's (Perpetual) New Government" currently oversees the greatest largesse of a generation. Hold on, I'll give you a second to pull your 2010 "budget held hostage by evil separtist socialist coalition" talking points out of the filing cabinet.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            The campaign of 2008 the CPC was under $ 20m, the others were 40-50m.

            In November, an Economic Update was used by thee leaders who were individual rejected in 90, 82, 74 per cent. They criticized the lack of stimulus and three “objectionable“ proposals. Bob cited $30 billion.

            The three objectionable proposals were removed but the coalition was pushing ahead to remove the government without an election.

            The Government asked and got the XMAS break one week earlier. The Government met with the G20 in December 2008 (markets went south very FAST)

            The Liberals decided to dump their coalition and Dion December 2008. They would not admit to giving Jack the boot until much later. Since than the opposition parties have taken turns propping up this government. The opposition are in the majority and can remove this government with a motion of non-confidence. In five years it has been introduced only 1 time with “Time is UP“ rhetoric from Liberals.
            The votes in parliament are crystal clear. Confidence in this Conservative federal government exists.

            Since 2007 CPC are 5 for 7 in by elections vs 1 for 7 of Libs or NDP. Balance sheets don`t lie. Look at Lib 2004-2010. Only second quarter of 2009 was incredible.

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            How is it that only about 20% of your reply has anything to do with what I said? Campaign costs, Liberal insider drama, coalition prop-ups, G20 details, and other matters have nothing to do with the simple fact that you neglected to explain how the Conservatives, long before 2008, were spending like drunken sailors and creating a structural deficit. Don't rush to prove me right re: the needless spewing of rhetoric and talking points.

          • brooster2

            I've had similar exchanges with CanadianSense. He carpet bombs you with an array of loosely-connected factoids that are marginally (if at all) related to the thread. I suspect he copies-pastes them from his blog.

            If you're not careful, you'll forget what the original topic was.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            You failure to understand the series of events that led up to the spending or how a minority parliament works is not an issue for me.

            Clearly you have have issues with the failure of the opposition to act in a responsible manner and vote against the Conservative agenda in the last five year.[youtube MCOxcDcZ69o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCOxcDcZ69o youtube]

          • brooster2

            "You [sic] failure to understand the series of events that led up to the spending or how a minority parliament works is not an issue for me."

            Nor for me, even if it were true, because it's not relevant to this thread.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Based on your posts my statement is a fact and not open for debate. The matter is closed.
            This is a minority parliament and confidence of this Conservative government has not been lost in five years.

            Feel free to howl at the moon it will as effective.

          • brooster2

            Since you seem to feel free to define the parameters of the discussion, feel free to declare your self the "winner".

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Perhaps you are a graduate of the Rachel Brown school of debating.

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            Your statement, fact or not, didn't belong in your replies to me in the first place. I'll make this real simple: I pointed out that the Conservatives have proven to be the biggest spenders of the past two decades, before and after 2008. You then babbled about campaign costs, Liberal insider drama, coalition prop-ups, and G20 details. That is what brooster and I are referring to – are you so in love with your own opinions that you can't identify what the topic of conversation is?

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Your series of rants are comical.

            Feel free to start your own 'tea party' as every other political party is demanding for more spending and not ending stimulus.

            Option A) Howl at moon B) see option A

          • brooster2

            Option C) Don't get trapped into a useless debate with CanadianSense, who whose arguments are like digital diarrhea.

          • hollinm

            Of course lets not forget that the Libs are no raving hell in Quebec either. The choice is Conservatives versus Liberals and so far the money is on Harper regardless of what happens in Quebec.

            Canadians will not accept a Liberal/NDP coalition if the Libs do not win more seats than the Conservatives. What that would mean is they need the support of the Bloc and that didn't work out too well in the ROC the last time.

          • brooster2

            "Of course lets not forget that the Libs are no raving hell in Quebec either."

            Which merely echoes my comment that no party has, to my knowledge, achieved a majority without that province. That's why I can only see some configuration of minority or coalition as an outcome of the next election.

            "Canadians will not accept a Liberal/NDP coalition if the Libs do not win more seats than the Conservatives."

            How do you know? You authorized to speak on behalf of "Canadians"?

            And I didn't mention the Bloc in my speculation above because, I agree, neither Ignatieff nor, I suspect, Layton would pick up that grenade again.

            I did mention a Liberal/NDP plurality greater than a CPC minority. That's the seat distribution that gets interesting.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_ele…
            172 seat 100 ON 36 QC West 14 ATL 19 North 3

            2008
            143 seat 51 ON 10 QC West 69 ATL 10 North 1

            2011
            A pick up of 10-15 ON, 3-4 West, ATL 3-4, North 1

            Low 15-24

            CPC have picked up two seats in QC away from Bloc since 2006 in by elections.

            Larry Smith West Island may join CPC. All bets are off.

          • brooster2

            "we are running the country"

            Delusions of grandeur there, hollinm? Which cabinet post is yours?

          • hollinm

            You and the rest of the anti Harper crowd on this blog are not only desperate you are in denial.

          • Emily

            LOL you are the LAST person that can credibly talk about 'denial'.

          • hollinm

            Read this and weep Emily:
            http://www.nikonthenumbers.com/

          • Emily

            And in 5 years….Harper has gone up and down, but still is nowhere near a majority…nor will he be.

            Canadians just don't like or support him.

          • hollinm

            You will not learn Emily no matter how many times I tell you. Harper has the job. Ignatieff wants it. If he does not do something to move his numbers above the 30% range he has no chance of forming a minority government. Relying a forming a coalition government is not such a wise idea in this political environment.

            No it is the Liberals and left that don't like Harper. If it was as you said the Conservative numbers would be in the tank but you and others on this board despite your best efforts have not been able to turn the Liberal ship around.

            Majority or minority Harper will still be in charge after the next election. You guy will be on the bus back to Harvard.

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            You're half right. If it's a majority, Harper will still be hanging around. If it's a minority, he'll be on the bus back to Calgary.

          • hollinm

            The caucus and the party will decide that. Not the media or the opposition parties. However, I suspect that Harper will take his exit if he only gets another minority. However, it won't be right away.

            Ignatieff will be long gone before Harper has to make the decision on leadership.

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            "The caucus and the party will decide that. Not the media or the opposition parties."

            *sarcasm on*Gee, thanks. I had no idea that's how it worked. That clarification really added value to the discourse.*sarcasm off*

            Also, instead of restating in longer form what I stated in shorter form, why couldn't you have just said "yeah, you're probably right, straits – Harper will totally resign if it's another minority"

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Be patient Ignatieff could not do worse than Dion with 26% right?

            His calls for tax funded abortions in Africa, protection of economic migrants with 50k, national daycare, national home care, extending the mission, national grids, Quebec arena, more money for education, Expo will without raising taxes will work out very WELL in the campaign.

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            Dear lord, man, are you even TRYING to stay on topic at this point? I am quite ambivaent about the fortunes of any of the opposition parties at this point – my entire focus is on the utter failings of the Conservative party, and the eventual resignation of Stephen Harper when he gets his next minority government. Anything else is a pathetic distraction.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Trying to dig the hole you started?

            Opposition stinks wont' vote no confidence.

            You don't like the Government and have declared the results of the future election that has not been called.

            The link as good as it gets is on topic. Sell your crazy somewhere else.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCOxcDcZ69oyoutub… MCOxcDcZ69o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCOxcDcZ69o youtube]

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            Of coruse I don't like the Government. Your knack for stating the obvious is deafening. I'm actually staying on topic, you're spewing random flotsam. Try reading the original post that I replied to in the first place. If I want to also state the obvious, which is that Harper will be out the door if he gets another minority, then that is my business. In fact, I didn't even try to predict if it was going to be a majority or minority. Find a quote from my own material that proves me wrong.

          • kcm

            'His calls for tax funded abortions in Africa'

            Prove it?…on second thoughts don't bother.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Foot in mouth disease a Liberal pre condition?

            “Mr. Harper and members of his government may personally oppose abortion, but they do not have the right to deprive others from having this option in countries where abortion is legal,” said Martin.

            “There is no more effective way to enable countries to improve their economy, reduce social costs, save lives, and indeed improve their environment than by enabling people to access a full spectrum of family planning options,” he added.

            Martin's comments backed up the stance of Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff, who had called for abortion funding in the Conservatives' initiative in early February. “We’ve had a pro-choice consensus in this area for a couple of generations and we want to hold it,” Ignatieff stated.
            http://www.lifesitenews.com/?/news/bishop-critici…

          • kcm

            You don't know what your talking about. Abortion [ where legal ] was already covered in the UN convention [ i can't be bothered tocheck the actual name ] we were already a party to it. It was all smoke and mirrors for the Tory trolls and you bought it too – why am i not surprised? In addition Wells has written an article stating the the Harper clowns are now in fact following this very convention, and ineffect betraying the SoCons. I'm really no fan of MI's, but do tr to keep a shred of objectvity when you trash him – it makes the rest of your posts highly suspect.

          • kcm
          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Shorter next time.
            Liberals tried to divide the CPC and raise Maternal Health into an abortion debate.
            Millions are being spent and YES some will go for abortions. It was a stunt Liberals skipped the vote and a few voted against it.
            That's is just another example why the Liberals are unfit for office.

          • kcm

            And Wells' point?

            Good try at deflection – Harper, or one of his minions, said the iniative would explicitly not include abortion. Ignatieff merely made an ass of himself trying to nail him on the contradiction.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            I am not hanging on every word or syntax of politicians.

            I never stated/defended/believed the CPC would be able to do what you offered as proof. (This is your hill and the MSM to whine about)

            I live in the real world and see failure, falling short of promises from all levels in and outside politics.

            It appears you can't accept CPC-Liberals make statements-promises they can't keep on Maternal Health.

            You are FREE to imagine a level of control that does not exist.

          • kcm

            And you are free to never admit you're wrong, no matter what evidence is put before you.

          • hollinm

            I agree. Now does that make you feel better.?

          • http://straittohell.blogspot.com straittohell

            Yep.

        • burlivespipe

          Chester, name me the Liberal MP who used a cartoon dinasour (sic) to mock any CON, Reform, Alliance party member? Can you name one Liberal MP? Just one? An elected member of parliament? Oh, talking points got your tongue?

    • Mike T.

      With all due respect, good sir, your discourse falls short of the level of an educated fellow in search of stimulating conversation. There is many a board where your opinion will find a favourable reception, I civilly suggest you avail yourself of them.

      • hollinm

        Of course he should move on and really let this blog be taken over by the left wing nuts.

        • Emily

          I have yet to meet a left-winger on here.

    • Be_rad

      the public mocking on national television of deeply held religious beliefs with the use of cartoon stuffed animals

      Just double checked my Bible and my suspicions were confirmed – no mention of dinosaurs.

      Seriously, how could you even pick that hill to fight on?

  • tobyornotoby

    Maybe we'd pick all our words more carefully if we had a few minutes of speech within a day of silence.

  • cbombast

    After reading this CP story (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/gun-tracing-regulations-delayed-for-third-time-by-harper-government–111348704.html), I honestly don't understand why there is such opposition the tracing regulations. I was never a big fan of the long gun registry, but this isn't a "criminals won't register their guns" issue because the database would be created at the manufacturing level.

    • Dubh

      Sounds like some interests don't want it to be easy to trace where weapons came from. Wonder why.

    • Olivier

      The gun lobby is against it so the CPC is against it.

      Simple as that.

  • commenter41

    The usual dialogue of the deaf in Question Period is not the story here, but the lack of context in recounting it by the media is.

    Politics above all else, but on balance I would have to give real concern about victims to the conservatives; the liberals and NDP clearly only care about painting the government as uncaring or at least indecisive on a hot-button topic which they believe it to be vulnerable on. Underscoring that point in the article above would be a pithy reporting.

    • Mike T.

      Shorter to just write "Adscam!"

  • commenter41

    And on the issue of the implementation of firearms identification regulations, the unreported story is that while this is a seemingly simple and sensible thing to do, the detail reveals that once again the hidden hand of the ‘stakeholders’ of gun control is trying to put in place by stealth another huge raft of ‘regulations’ that would advance their agenda: to make legally buying or owning a firearm administratively or financially prohibitive, while appearing to be 'reasonable'.

    • kcm

      What detail…details please, or did you think conjecture was detail enough?

      • burlivespipe

        It's that secret interest group — the 'police'! (cue the scary music)… And those dastardly health care professionals! And the two-timing victims rights groups! Egad, Harper is surrounded, why won't people just trust his gut and learn to hate Canada like he does!

        • sourstud

          Ya, why can't Stephen Harper hate Canada the way Michael Ignatieff hates Canada. Everybody knows if your going to hate your homeland, it's far better to do it from another country, than to stay home and try to change the country that you hate so dearly.

  • commenter41

    (continued) This is just the latest in a long list of order-in-council regulations that were never debated in parliament (and often implemented quietly after ministers had promised in public that doing so was not their intent – without the press taking note or anyone outside the “gun lobby” caring) that are illogical except to push this not-so-hidden agenda. Those who pursue this mindless crusade are shamelessly using the victims of Marc Lapine and unfairly vilifying millions of innocent Canadians (who are, by-and-by, characterized as a class in ways that should have every Human Rights tribunal raging in apoplexy), at an ever increasing and huge expense to the public purse – i.e. all of us.

    Beating the innocent to punish the guilty is in no way justice for any victim.

    • Emily

      The preceding has been a paid political announcement by the Con party of Canada.

      • A_logician

        I disagree. The incoherence marks it as an amateur effort.

        Oh, wait – incoherence IS a CPC hallmark.

    • brooster2

      A rambling discourse brought to you by a member of the gun lobby. Not even articulate or cogent enough to have been created by a paid CPC shill.

      The CPC (I'll give 'em this much) are slick. This drivel isn't.

    • cooper

      oh garbage

    • danby

      the latest in a long list of order-in-council regulations that were never debated in parliament

      tell it to the mandatory long form census

      • Keith in Brampton

        Long forms, long guns… what's with their phobia of regulating anything long?

  • Philanthropist

    Liberals love it when people are victimized, it gives them a great excuse to extract money from taxpayers and do more social engineering.
    The one and only reason corrupt liberals waste billions on 'social programs' is for re-election, they don't care about outcomes, they want thousands of voters to be sucking the government's teat so that they can threaten these voters at election time.
    In the words of Crooked Chretien "it's da usual business".

    • Emily

      Cons, of course, never give away money to buy votes.

      Well, not more than 99.9% of the time, anyway

    • brooster2

      Spoken on behalf of the party that claims the greatest success in separating citizens from their money.

      Compared to the charlatans extracting money for the CPC, the other parties are behaving like (wait for it)…philanthropists.

      Anyone who passes on a comment board with your tag is giving genuine philanthropy a bad rep.

      Coward.

  • ex-canuck

    Mr Wherry, the boredom induced by your puerile column perfectly matches that of the resultant and equally puerile commentary on it.

  • chet

    So to recap from the commenters above:

    Harper isn't running the country,
    Harper is really hated and if there was an election he would lose power,
    Baird is uncivil, but Liberals are not,

    Or,

    to sum up nearly every one of Wherry's posts on nearly every conceivable topic, and the supporting swarm of commenters who devoutly protect the message against any and all dissenters:

    Liberals good, conservatives bad.

    • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

      Don't be too hard on people trying to save the Liberal party from the dustbin of history. It's crunch time and they are desperate. The glory days on 2000 when Ontario broke Big" L" are over. They never imagined when they changed the campaign funding rules in 2004 they would be at below 30% of popular support. They may have thought the Green and NDP voters would always belong to them. Much like the ethnic and Catholic communities. They overplayed their hand and have lost key groups. It is now the nerdy college kids who troll these blogs and turn political discourse into a pro wrestling rebuttal. In honour of their contribution to the debate, I found this video:
      [youtube k_CAs3q7G48&feature=player_embedded#! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CAs3q7G48&feature=player_embedded#! youtube]

      • kcm

        And what sort of troll does that make you? Have a little respect for people who do not share your views..i'm not college kid.

        • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

          You are free to hold delusional world view including transfers of wealth to despots and dictators in the name of CAGW. It's over the game is up. Liberalism-Socialism-Progressive ideology is losing support everywhere.
          http://stopshouting.blogspot.com/2010/11/my-rebut…

          Carthago delenda est.

    • danby

      Chet, I have yet to read a balanced analyses of Conservative failings – and yes they have some- from you.

      Tell me, does Conservatives good, Liberals bad sound any less partisan?

      Both sides are riddled with mistakes and poor judgement, but since the Conservatives are in power, the focus is on them. If the Liberals ever manage to get back in, the lens will turn on them, too – guaranteed.

  • canon70

    Another illustration of how useless question period has become.

From Macleans