Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Conservative-Bloc Coalition Watch

by Aaron Wherry on Wednesday, December 8, 2010 11:42am - 54 Comments

The Bloc Quebecois voted last night with the Conservative side to pass the government’s latest budget implementation bill.

Two weeks ago the Bloc and Conservatives united to defeat a Liberal motion condemning the purchase of new F-35s.

Tags: Bloc Québécois, Budget, conservatives, F-35, house of commons, Parliament

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Loraine Lamontagne

Are you sure? Haven't read this in French in any Québec newspapers.
http://stumblingabordeaux.blogspot.com Pato31

Are they still the same bunch of scary separatists that threaten Canada's functioning as a democracy? Probably.

http://dougsamu.wordpress.com dougrogers

Only when they're in opposition.
CAPS

Of course they are but since the type of Conservative currently forming the government would be fine with letting them go then all is good.

For an more trrenchant analysis of this please see today,s column by Chantal Hébert: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/903043…

Crit_Reasoning

The Bloc voted with the Conservatives on the F-35s because if Quebec ever separates, Gilles Duceppe wants Quebec to seize 25% of Canada's stealth fighter squadron.

Nothing says "we're sovereign" like having your own stealth fighters.

Mike T.

The joke is so totally on them. We'll just turn on the stealth buttons, the planes will turn invisible, and the Bloc will NEVER find them! HAHAHAHAHAHA! Take that newly independent Quebec!
LdKitchenersOwn

So, if Quebec separates our air force will be down to two fighter squadrons?

Good thing we're such a tiny country with so little airspace to defend!

gottabesaid

No truck nor trade with the separatists! Except for this one budget implementation bill! Then we're going back to being mortal enemies!

I love it when rhetoric and reality diverge in such striking fashion..
Emily

Harper is in bed with the filthy separatists???

Say it isn't so!
alfanerd

The BQ can vote any which way they want. It's entirely beyond the conservative's control. But nice try at setting up a ridiculous straw man though. The difference with having the BQ occasionally vote with the government, as any opposition party does, and the proposed coalition of 2008, is that currently Gilles Duceppe does not have a veto over government policy. And considering that Duceppe's main goal is to break up the country, that is a good thing, a very very very good thing.

Emily

Duceppe has never had, nor could he, a veto over govt policy.

All they can do is support, or refuse to support a bill.

alfanerd

Of course he would – if the Libs/NDP need his support to keep a coalition government alive, he has a de facto veto.

Emily

No more than he does by voting against a Con bill.

alfanerd

Gee Emily, you would think that by trolling on Macleans boards everyday you would learn something. I guess not. Harper doesnt have the support of any opposition party. He survives on an issue by issue basis, because the Liberals couldnt beat him in an election anyways. So the Liberals somehow always find a way to keep this government alive – its very nice of them. Once that changes, you can be pretty sure that Harper's government will go down in a nanosecond.

But under a Bloc/NDP/Lib coalition, the only thing that will keep the government alive will be continued support by the bloc. The conservatives would never support such a government, because after that monstrosity is bestowed on the canadian public, a conservative majority in the next election is all but assured. And so you can imagine when it will be budget drafting time, Duceppe will be asking for this, that and a bit more spending in Montreal, and this little project in Laval, oh and support for this group in Gaspe, and just an extra billion equalization for quebec… endlessly. And Ignatieff will only be able to say "yes Gilles, anything else you need?"
A_logician

What you're saying is only true with the current party standings, for the coalition-that-never-was. The coalition the Harperites are campaigning against would form after the next election, and could take quite a different form. (Of course, the coalition-that-never-was did not formally include the Bloc, but did include a promise by the Bloc not to defeat the Liberal-NDP coalition on a confidence vote.)

The most likely result of another election would be another CPC minority government, which would be neither of the outcomes the CPC says will be our choice. In logic, what the CPC is making the centrepiece of their "next-election" rhetoric is known as a false dichotomy.
Mike T.

It's also not necessarily true of the coalition that never was. It's a possibility (not necessarily the most likely one), but hardly assured.
alfanerd

You're quite right, and if indeed the next election produces another CPC minority, the coalition may try to take power, and its overwhelmingly likely that such a coalition will also need this promise by the Bloc – and as long as they rely on the Bloc, the Bloc has a de facto veto.
Thwim

As does the NDP, and the Liberals. Oddly, everybody but the Conservatives would have a de facto veto in such an arrangement.

Of course, this is what you're really deathly afraid of.. the Conservatives being shut out of power..again.
alfanerd

No the NDP and the Liberals at least have the interest of the country at heart, even though they are misguided in how to move the country forward. The Bloc has as its central policy platform the dismantling of this country – if they get their hands anywhere near power, they will use it to create division and strife across the country, because division and strife in Canada is what serves the Bloc's interest.

Mike T.

YOu mean the proposed coalition of 2004, between Harper Duceppe and Layton.
CAPS

The Bloc never had a veto under the Liberal/NDP agreement of 2008. In fact they gave up their hammer by agreeing to vote with the Coalition on matters of confidence.

Blue

Tell us more about this " Agreement ".

Would the Bloc have had a hand in determining what were matters of confidence ?

Were Senate appointments part of the negotiation prizes for the Bloc ?

What type of document did the Libs, NDP, and Bloc sign to ensure that the Bloc would continue to vote with the Coalition on matters of confidence ?

And most important—what concessions did the Lib and NDP members give to the Bloc MPs to convince them that it would be in the Separatist best interests to vote with the Coalition on matters of confidence ?

kcm

How could the bloq have had a hand indetermining matters of confidence – the were promised no cabinet seats?
Let's hear from a man who was involved in the negotiations shall we?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/arti…

Curiously i'm not sure i get the distinction in point #5…but then i'm not a Quebecer.

alfanerd

You must be some kind of comment-writing software, beta version, I dont believe any human is that stupid.

That kind of "agreement" is not enforceable anywhere. Ask David Orchard. And when the Bloc demands keep piling up and eventually (hypothetically), when Ignatieff grows a pair and says no, Duceppe can righteously pretend to be outraged that he agreed to support this government, but not under *THESE* conditions.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

Very lame, Wherry. Very lame.

Marcus

Wherry is becoming more of a troll than some posters. I'm undecided if I like it or not.

Orson Bean

Exactly. Maybe he took Kinsella's old job in the Liberal War Room and just didn't bother announcing it.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ottawa_Centrist Ottawa_Centrist

Subtle

Gary

CLASSIC, unfortunately I'm only allowed a +1 for you!

PeteTong

Only the Conservatives can be trusted to keep the Seperatists most treasonous actions at bay. Michael Ignatieff would allow the seperatists to split up the country in exchange for the tiniest pork.

Emily

LOL Cons are doing everything they can to get Quebec to leave. They'd be happy if a few other provinces left as well.
alfanerd

Actually, Ignatieff would cave to the ever-increasing demands of the BQ as a coalition partner, thereby pissing off the RoC.

Emily

Apparently you never understood any of it.

Mike T.

The thing is, he probably didn't misunderstand. He's deliberately misrepresenting it.

alfanerd

Please expand. Show me how smart you are. Or are you only capable of one-liners?

If you guys actually think that Ignatieff could have a coalition with the bloc and that the bloc would play nice, you're even dumber than i first thought, and that's pretty facking dumb.
Mike T.

When you have upped your game to the point where you deserve a considered reply you shall have one.

Get to work.
alfanerd

Ok. This is my view of how a Lib/NDP/BQ coalition would look like.

Under a Bloc/NDP/Lib coalition, the only thing that will keep the government alive will be continued support by the bloc. The conservatives would never support such a government, because after that monstrosity is bestowed on the canadian public, a conservative majority in the next election is all but assured. And so you can imagine when it will be budget drafting time, Duceppe will be asking for this, that and a bit more spending in Montreal, and this little project in Laval, oh and support for this group in Gaspe, and just an extra billion equalization for quebec… endlessly. And Ignatieff will only be able to say "yes Gilles, anything else you need?"

If Ignatieff grows a pair and says no, Duceppe can righteously pretend to be outraged that he agreed to support this government, but not under *THESE* conditions.

Please explain to me why this scenario is not something Canadians should be worried about.
Mike T.

Please explain to me why this scenario is not something Canadians should be worried about.

**
A person of average intelligence should be able to figure out the answer for themselves. Do try.
alfanerd

Im well below average intelligence, and I need your infinite wisdom to help me. Please Mike T., Im just a stupid conservative hillbilly and unless you share your infinite wisdom with the likes of me, Harper will get a majority. This is your chance to save Canada!!

Or, maybe you are just capable of one liners, and explaining yourself in two sentences or more is just too difficult for you.
bennji1977

Minus a formal coalition agreement, isn't this exactly what the Harper government did from 2006 – 2008? Honestly, a seat a UNESCO, a nation within a nation, money pouring into the province.

My prediction, you will hear the federal government announce funding for a new arena in Quebec City, and shortly thereafter, the writ will be dropped.
alfanerd

well to a certain extent, the conservatives have pandered to Quebec, without much success. they were wrong to do it and i believe they learned their lesson – like you said yourself, they did that only until 2008.

quebec will never be satisfied and will always ask for more, so there's no point in giving them anything really.

i really really hope you're wrong about funding for a quebec city arena.
Thwim

Oddly, of all the parties, the Bloc is the only one that has performed consistently with integrity. Their actions coincide exactly with what they say they will do.

To suggest that they're the ones we shouldn't trust to follow through with what they promise compared with any of the others shows either appallingly bad judgment, or mammoth ignorance.. possibly both.

Blue

You gotta love it when Wherry changes the subject to Coalition-Talk and then think back to 2 years ago.

By the way, there would still be about 6 months left in the time period granted by the Coalition to govern the country. That`s a scary thought I know, but 2 years ago we came close to the beginning of the end as a country. I don`t know who would be PM today—-maybe still Stephaine—maybe Iggy—maybe Layton.
Separation plans would be well under way in the West and by the 75% of Quebecers opposed to the Bloc.
Our economy would have tanked by now.
It`s interesting to see Wherry have a little fun watching the routine voting patterns of a minority gov`t and opp. parties but it`s also interesting to look back and be thankful that we just missed a close call.

kcm

'…but 2 years ago we came close to the beginning of the end as a country'

What utter rubbish!!

At worst the coalition would have collapsed under the weight of its own incoherence and we'd now have a majority Conservative govt…you sadly have little faith in the resiliency of Canadian Parliamentary Democracy – except that is when your team has the upper hand.

Blue

I suppose you could be right about the CPC majority being the obvious result of the certain incompetence of the coalition gov`t, but if you and I can see that now then certainly the coalition would see it and resist all attempts to remove it from power.
Any reasonable person can imagine the disastrous repercussions on the country of a clinging-to-power-coalition consisting of Dion-Layton-Duceppe-May quad. Having them lead the country for even a short time makes one shudder.

brooster2

Interesting how Conbots are addicted to the fear factor – even resorting to implausible counter-history to fertilize it.

JonnyBoy

Wow, what an amazing point. Because "Libbots" never use the fear factor right. Oh please Mr Brooster2, can you pretty please impart more of your amazing wisdom so that I can bask a little longer in it?

JonnyBoy

Please please please please please please…

brooster2

Pleased to do so. Just post your email address and I'll add you to my distribution list. I'll even use small words and short sentences for you. I'm used to communicating with juveniles.
JonnyBoy

Oh yeah, *puffs up chest like a big rooster*, well I'm used to talking to big meanies, so there!
brooster2

Such bravado is unnecessary…no meanie, moi. Just an enlightened, benevolent citizen. Otherwise, why would you be seeking my counsel?
JonnyBoy

uhhhhhhh….yeah…
brooster2

"…can you pretty please impart more of your amazing wisdom so that I can bask a little longer in it?"

"Please please please please please please… "

You begged, I responded, and this is the thanks I get?

Richard_S_Argent

Why wouldn't the Bloc support the Conservatives? From Meech Lake to Charlottetown to "nation within a nation" to a seat on UNESCO, no one has been more willing to grant more concessions to the separatists than the federal Tories.