Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

The Commons: These fleeting words

by Aaron Wherry on Wednesday, December 8, 2010 7:20pm - 75 Comments

The Scene. This space has been used in the past to acknowledge the futility of placing anything more than passing significance on the pronouncements of this government’s ministers and mouthpieces. Their words are like daylilies, blooming only for 24 hours before fading into memory. To quibble, to seek to extend their meaning beyond nightfall, is to argue with the sun.

Perhaps then what follows here is relatively pointless. But then sometimes the rhetoric is so colourful, its aroma so intoxicating, that it is difficult to forget; near impossible, whatever one knows to be true, to admit to oneself that these are merely passing fancy.

So it is that we turn to the blooming words, uttered less than a week ago, of this nation’s Justice Minister and Attorney General.

“Mr. Speaker,” Rob Nicholson declared, under some attack from the other side, “no group of individuals has more respect for human rights in our country than the Conservative Party … There is no group of individuals over the course of Canadian history that has had a better record for standing up for human rights than the Conservative Party of Canada and its predecessors.”

These were strong words strongly delivered. Mr. Nicholson’s reading comprehension has been the subject of some lament, but his ability to stand and fulminate is unquestioned. His is a raring appearance of great conviction.

But here we are, less than a week later, struggling to reconcile that rhetoric.

We are so cornered by yesterday’s report of the Ontario ombudsman. In his words, the G20 summit, staged in Toronto and chaired by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, was the scene of “the most massive compromise of civil liberties in Canadian history.” However colourful those words, it can at least be said that the law invoked in that case was rather troublesome. And that, above and beyond the question of said law, those few days in Toronto, reputedly the scene of the largest mass arrest in this nation’s history, are now the subject of widespread and pointed concern.

Given the Attorney General’s words of last week, one might have thus expected a certain expression of concern to be offered by his party and the government it now forms. Whatever the jurisdictional niceties, one might have imagined that a group so concerned for human rights would be at least mildly ruffled at the thought of being associated with such an alleged breach.

It seems though that when Public Safety Minister Vic Toews was first presented with the matter today, his response was roughly the equivalent of a shrug. Indeed, when asked when he’d become aware of the rather troublesome law in question, he claimed not to have heard anything about it until after the summit’s conclusion. This despite the fact that the law’s existence was reported a full day before the G20 opened and that it is the Ontario ombudsman’s assertion, at point 180 of his report, that a federal government lawyer had, on the same day, been drafting appropriate responses to any potential questions about said law.

Setting that aside, some concession of even passing concern seemed in order. But by the time Question Period arrived, and by the time anyone got around to asking about it, the Minister remained relatively unmoved.

“Mr. Speaker, as I have said before, specific bodies exist to handle complaints regarding police conduct. It is appropriate for individuals, including the member, to direct her concerns to those bodies,” he read aloud from his script for the benefit of the Bloc’s Maria Mourani. “Our Conservative government has been up front about the real need and cost of security from the beginning, and we are very proud of the work that the police have done in the G8 and the G20. If there are any specific concerns about specific officers, there are specific bodies that could deal with that.”

Ms. Mourani pushed further, suggesting the RCMP might have some responsibility for the abuses of that weekend. Mr. Toews declared his support for the men in blue (“Mr. Speaker, I think it is reprehensible that the member would slander the reputation of each and every police officer who provided security at the G8 and the G20″) and then retreated behind the riot shields (“If there are specific officers who did something wrong, there are specific bodies that could handle those complaints”).

A short while later it was Olivia Chow’s turn to review the indictment. “Mr. Speaker, during the G20, innocent local residents were trapped by martial law. At the corner of Spadina and Queen, they were huddled in the pouring rain and humiliated for hours. Hundreds and hundreds of people were arrested and detained in horrifying conditions only to have their charges dropped,” the New Democrat reported. “The people of Toronto need to know what happened. How did it go so wrong? Why will the government not call a full public inquiry? Why are Conservatives afraid of the truth?”

Here Mr. Toews managed the neat trick of both welcoming and redirecting accountability. “In fact we are prepared to ensure that our streets are safe and to ensure that police act appropriately,” he declared. “Appropriate bodies exist. The member can refer the complaint there.”

Indeed, the Public Safety Minister was apparently quite torn. Presented by the NDP’s Don Davies with the fact that the summit was largely the federal government’s responsibility, Mr. Toews could not help but claim pride in the staging.

“Mr. Speaker,” he said, “as host nation of unprecedented, back-to-back G8 and G20 summits, we are proud of their success.”

But a sentence or two later, another redirection. “The member continues to smear all of the police officers who put their safety at risk during those summits,” Mr. Toews lamented. “If he has concerns about any specific officer or any conduct or any provincial law that was enacted in that respect, there are bodies to do that.”

It is tempting, of course, to point out the contradiction therein: between a willingness to take credit and an unwillingness to take blame. But it is entirely possible that, as Mr. Nicholson’s words bloomed for no more than a day, Mr. Toews first sentence here bloomed for mere seconds before fading.

The Stats. The environment, 13 questions. Government spending, the military and the G20, four questions each. Crime, three questions. Seniors, infrastructure and copyright, two questions each. Foreign affairs, Pearson airport and taxation, one question each.

Stephen Harper, eight answers. Vic Toews, five answers. Chuck Strahl and Stockwell Day, four answers each. Laurie Hawn and Jim Flaherty, three answers each. Christian Paradis, Mark Warawa and James Moore, two answers each. Shelly Glover, Joe Volpe, Daniel Petit and Rob Nicholson.

Bookmark and Share
  • Orson Bean

    So is Olivia Chow's position that the Harper government should call a full public inquiry in order to examine a policing/civil liberties decision that was made by the Ontario Provincial government? I'm confused.

    • frobisher

      "The Confusion Club, here in the 'Entertainment District', is full, sir. You'll have to wait for hours here in the driving rain", sez the bouncer in full riot gear. "No sir, I don't care if you live around the corner. What? Vic Who? Nobody here by that name. Now clam up and get back in line."

      Lord knows, Chow is so annoying, but if it helps get to the nub of the ISU's responsibility for the Cop-a-geddon of June last in this fair city, one must reluctantly let her get at it. Yosemite Vic's appeals to motherhood on the one hand and the fobbing off of responsibility for his department's concert actions to 'bodies that do that' is infuriating.

      Precariously walking the thin line between actual stupidity and BS is no way to go through government.

      • Orson Bean

        I'm just wondering whose post you're responding to, because it sure doesn't seem to be mine.

        Shouldn't Olivia Chow be asking for the Ontario government to hold a public inquiry? They're the ones who made the decisions that the ONTARIO PROVINCIAL Ombudsman called most prominently into question. E.g., it ain't the feds who passed the "secret law", was it?

        • frobisher

          Apologies for the purple reply, but the point is that all of these government entities – municipal, provincial, and federal – acted, with their attendant police forces, in concert through the ISU. The feds were ostensibly top dog, so they would have been apprised of anything – anything – that happened. Chow is dogging (no pun intended) Toews on federal knowledge and, one assumes, responsibility. Let Timmy Hudak do the same to McGuinty about why the 'secret law' was ordered-in-council by GovOnt. He won't press it, but that's his job. Chow can't press it. She can press Toews. So can Holland. So can whoever is the BQ PS critic.

          Shorter point, it straddles all levels of government and police bodies, and Toews should man up and stop being a mealy-mouthed twit when it comes to the federal role regarding fore-knowledge of and aquiesence to the dusty Public Works Defence Act (or whatever the hoary thing is).

          • Orson Bean

            The entire exchange in the House of Commons today was triggered by the following report:

            Investigation [by the Ontario Provincial Ombudsman] into The [Ontario Provincial] Ministry of Community Safety andCorrectional Services’ conduct in relation to Ontario Regulation 233/10 [a regulation passed by the Ontario Provincial Legislature] under the Public Works Protection Act [an Ontario statute]

            And you're saying that the appropriate response is for the federal government to hold a full public inquiry.

            Got it.

          • frobisher

            Never said that.

            Look, it's undeniable that Marin enjoys being a thorn in everybody's side – has for awhile – and his latest bow-shot has reached Ottawa.

            No, there shouldn't be a 'full public inquiry''. Yes, that was Chow's press. And ridiculous and futile as it is, at least it's a parliamentary means to call Wilfrid Brimley to account for his security pageant. Someone has to do it. Chow's obviously using her dull political antennae, grabbing Marin's fusillade and using it to goad the government. But that's as it should be

            You may not live in downtown Toronto. If you did, you might have a more jaundiced eye as to what actually occurred, especially at Q&S.

          • Stewart_Smith

            A full public inquiry into what happened might not be useful, but some sort of commission to look into best practice when provincial police are pulled in under a federal mandate would be useful. They could compare and contrast the Olympics (success) and the G20 (big ffing mess). This is not the last event with security implications that Canada will host, I hope we do much better next time.

  • Emily

    LOL ask Fantino what Cons think about human rights.

    He even wants to get rid of the charter.

    • ex-canuck

      getting rid of the charter would be a massive step forward for civil and all other liberties in Canada. Ask any competent lawyer if you want confirmation.

      • Richard_S_Argent

        Better yet, I'll ask my lesbian, recently married, future sister-in-law. I'm sure she would agree that the Charter has done bupkiss for her.

      • Emily

        Unlike the bill of rights in the country you now inhabit eh?

        • ex-canuck

          Quel comparison! Read the two charters and give me your essay on the comparative merits. (should you be so presumptuous).

          • tedbetts

            Most of the Charter, and certainly the most important and litigated parts of it, can be quite closely lined up with the Bill of Rights. And it is these rights – core human rights like due process and unreasonable search and seizure and freedom of expression and right to assemble in public – that Fantino and Toews and you disparage and the Ombudsman was concerned about.

  • Not Vic Toews

    Not me, not my job, not ACCOUNTABLE, not RESPONSIBLE.

    Well, whose job is it ?

    Does anybody know ?

  • chet

    The conservatives seek to protect the rights of all Canadians, not just the "progressive pet champions du jour".

    While the "progressive left" fetishizes over the likes of:

    - murderous taliban prisoners dedicated to murdering women, children and our brave soldiers
    - convicted terrorist Omar Kadre
    - and more recently human smugglers

    Harper and the conservatives are looking out for the rights of every day Canadians.

    Bravo Mr. Harper.

    Bravo.

    • Emily

      Oh knock it off with the 'progressive' stuff. Nobody even knows what you're talking about.

      Neither do you, since you still can't spell.

      • ex-canuck

        a waspish reply from a bent and twisted leftard

        • Emily

          I've never been left in my life hon, or teaparty either…and certainly never an American, like yourself.

          • ex-canuck

            but youi are waspish.

        • MostlyCivil

          Both of you, either cut the personal slurs or take it elsewhere..

          • Emily

            Oh look….it's your mother Chet!

      • Diana1976

        "Progressive" is the fashionable term for "liberal" in American politics. It must have been in style in Canada decades ago when the name Progressive Conservative was chosen. It's no accident the reactionary right wing Harper party dropped the word "progressive" from the party's name.

    • brooster2

      Off he goes again, as a stream of totally irrelevant little thoughtlets fleets through his otherwise vacant cranium and tumbles out into the digital universe, bereft of context and unattached to the topic in question.

      Chut (sorry, I can't spell your name, either)…try to focus!

      • Richard_S_Argent

        So how long before he waxes rhapsodic about Harper singing again?

        • danby

          Wait for it……

          Here you go

          • frobisher

            Hey. Bieber-esque.

            Harper actually looks pretty comfortable in that photo.

          • Richard_S_Argent

            Wanna bet the only snippet of Imagine he played was this verse?

            You may say that I'm a dreamer
            But I'm not the only one
            I hope someday you'll join us
            And the world will be as one

            I can't imagine (heh, pun *fully* intended!) lines like "imagine there's no heaven" and "Imagine there's no countries / It isn't hard to do / Nothing to kill or die for / And no religion too" would go over all that well with the base

            (then again for years Jamaica used a song that included the line "hear the children crying" as their official tourist anthem…so what do I know? :)

          • brooster2

            He should quit his day job…really

    • Richard_S_Argent

      Hey Chet,

      Just wondering, do you also think the conservatives were looking out for the rights of my friend who got corralled at Queen and Spadina for hours in the pouring rain when he was doing nothing more than walking home from work to his apartment at Queen and Augusta?

      'Cause it seems to me, his rights were most definitely NOT protected. In fact, it looks to me like his rights were assuredly trampled.

    • gottabesaid

      I think you want to say that the Conservatives seek to protect the rights of some Canadians, or Canadians they deem to deserve to have their rights protected… strictly speaking, they didn't protect the rights of Omar Khadr, who happens to be Canadian, or any Canadians who had their rights trampled at the G8/G20 summits. Your opening statement is incongruous with facts.

    • Not Chet

      Oh, the so-called (so-called since ONLY a KING can shut down Parliament to avoid a scheduled non-confidence vote that the Opposition has publicly announced that they will defeat the Government on) PM Harper's propaganda.

      As PM Harper claims whenever the Opposition asks legitimate questions on the Afgan War in Parliament, those Opposition, their in cahoots with the TALIBAN, you know.

      Do you think PM Harper REALLY believes what he says, the Opposition are TRAITORS.

      God help us.

  • PeterboroDave

    Hang on, isn't the Conservative Party only 6 or 7 years old?

    Good heavens, he doesn't mean to include the PROGRESSIVE Conservative Party in that calculation does he? Rob Nicholson has as much in common with the Progressive Conservative Party as he has with a petunia (with apologies to Carl Sagan)

    • Emily

      Yeah, the Reform/CCRAP/CA/Con party is only a few years old.

      'Progressive' is a dirty word, remember. Chet denounces them all the time, even if he's unaware they're fellow-conservatives.

      • brooster2

        And the traditional "progressive" Conservatives they've abandoned and denounced in their current iteration are probably the difference between perpetual minority and the elusive majority they prize.

    • LivbloginJunkie

      Except Minister Nicholson served as a Parliamentary Secretary in the Mulroney Government

      • frobisher

        And turned that old plain cloth coat in for cashmere at the first opportunity.

  • Blue

    I love the comparison of the Conservative Gov`t to daylilies—I really think Wherry has grown very fond of this gov`t.
    You see, daylilies are probably the best all round perennial for our climate—they don`t just bloom for a day and fade into memory, but return the next day more beautiful then ever.
    They last all summer into the fall and come back even stronger in the spring.
    They come in many different colours and sizes.
    They multiply every year—simply split the root, give one to a neighbour, and soon the whole neighbourhood is full of daylilies.
    You can`t kill them—they are extremely tough—love daylilies.

    • madeyoulook

      Shame on you, Blue. Dozens of lefties just tasted stomach acid at the back of their throats.

      • Emily

        I don't know of one leftie on here, much less dozens….and in any case why would anyone care that Blue is Ferdinand the Bull

      • brooster2

        Hold on there, myl…maybe Blue can make a career for himself over on the gardening channel, where he might be less of a bloomin' nuisance.

      • Blue

        myl—it was never my intention to cause any esophagusal discomfort to any of the lefties who apparently are not even on this site. I simply got a little carried away with the sight of Wherry`s daylily metaphor since my garden is now covered with 3 feet of snow.
        Apparently I`m not alone—-If you glance down below CR has gone all poetic on us.

    • Phil_King

      Yeah weeds are like that. Then they strangle the life out of your other plants as they infest everthing around them by preventing the light of day reaching anything else.

      Yup, sounds like a social conservative to me.

      Like all pretty flowering weeds, if you MUST have them around, makes sure you isolate them from the rest of the garden before they infest everything.

      LOL

      • tedbetts

        And above all else never let them take over a majority space in your garden, because if they get a majority there really is no stopping them since they really don't care what you want for or in your garden but only care about what they want for themselves.

    • tedbetts

      "They last all summer into the fall and come back even stronger in the spring. They come in many different colours and sizes. They multiply every year—simply split the root, give one to a neighbour, and soon the whole neighbourhood is full of daylilies. You can`t kill them—they are extremely tough."

      So, what you are saying, is you like the Conservatives because they are like mould and roaches.

  • TJCook

    “Mr. Speaker,” Rob Nicholson declared, under some attack from the other side, “no group of individuals has more respect for human rights in our country than the Conservative Party …"

    Uh, Minister: Omar Khadr is on line one. He would like to speak with you.

  • hollinm

    Of course we all know that anything that happens is Harper's fault. Ask the uber leftie Aaron Wherry.
    The fact is Harper did not run the police forces. Even McGuinty admits he went too far. However, don't let the facts get in your way Wherry. Keep up the rants.

    • Emily

      Harper is the PM. The buck stops there.

      • Orson Bean

        Hey Emily, have you ever heard of this thing called "federalism"? Look it up. You might learn something.

        Stephen Harper is not Dalton McGuinty's boss. So under matters of Ontario Provincial jurisdiction, and with respect to decisions made by the Ontario Provincial Government, the buck stops with the Premier of Ontario.

        • Emily

          Hey Mr Bean, have you ever heard of patronizing? I'm sure you have since you attempt it all the time.

          Harper is the PM. The G8/G20 was his NATIONAL show. He was in charge. Everything went through him.

          The buck is in his lap.

          • Orson Bean

            So does this mean that if the McGuinty-led Ontario provincial government does anything good or praiseworthy, the Harper-led Canadian federal government gets to also take credit for it?

            I'm just wondering how this whole chain-of-responsibility concept of yours works.

          • Emily

            And now apparently you can't tell the difference between a federal security operation, and day-to-day govt.

            What did I tell you about patronizing?

          • Blue

            O.B. –I wish you good luck in your conversion project, however, you might receive more satisfaction if you walk out to the corner of your house and, as hard as you can, bang your head against that brick wall.

          • JonnyBoy

            Agreed, which is why I have ceased responding to any and all Emily comments, and will continue to encourage others to do the same. Consider this your encouragement Orson Bean.

          • Emily

            'Conversion project'?

            If you guys imagine you're going to 'convert' me to your 'cranky ol' guy' party, you're….as Mulroney once said….'dreaming in technicolor'. LOL

            I

          • hollinm

            We know…we know….you can't teach an old dog new tricks as they say :-)

          • Emily

            Well, like much else you learned in your life, that old saying is wrong.

            And I remind you I was in the Reform party….probably before you were.

          • hollinm

            Emily….obviously you have a lot of anger built up. For whatever reason that is your issue. I have been involved with the Reform party as well since its inception.

            Unlike you as a citizen and mature adult I have to make a decision on who to vote for. I will not vote for a party who has lacked leadership and still does to this day. I will not vote for a party who had 13 years of majority government to deal with the serious issues facing this country and short of covering the deficit on the backs of citizens and provinces did precious little else over that 13 years.

            The final nail in the coffin was when they set up a program to systemically steal from the ordinary hardworking taxpayers of this country and were proven corrupt by a judicial inquiry.

            In my view there are only two choices and I have made my choice. Nothing is ever perfect but you need to stand and be counted.

            You can dislike Harper and the Conservatives. That is your right. However, you are way over the top and need to really think hard about some of the nonsense that you say on this board.

          • hollinm

            Yep we all know that everything bad that happens in Canada is Harper's fault. McGuinty and the rest of the idiots occupying the Liberal government benches in Toronto are blameless. Get a grip Emily. Take off the rose coloured glasses and jump into the real world.

          • Emily

            Harper is PM….the buck stops there.

            Hon, I've never been OUT of the real world….it's just that mine is Earth.

          • hollinm

            I ain't your Hon. You condescending twit.

            Can't win the arguments so you become arrogant and insulting.

          • Patchouli Blessings

            Sound familiar?

          • Phil_King

            Takes a lot of audacity for you of all people to try throwing that at someone.

            If hypocrisy was lighter fluid and irony a spark, you'd be a human torch brother.

            I mean really, you're condescending with the best of them and you arrogance is only outmatched by your lack of critical self awareness.

            But then, if that weren't the case, you wouldn't be trying to play the holier-than-thou card.

            Yikes!

    • Thwim

      Odd. Here I was thinking Wherry was saying that if a group of people say that "no group of individuals has more respect for human rights in our country", said group might evidence a little more concern over a trampling of human rights than "they should report that to the appropriate authorities (who are part of the group that was trampling their human rights)"

    • tedbetts

      Who is blaming him? That is why everyone is calling for an inquiry. So we can find out who was at fault and to what degree and so we can make sure we implement best practices to ensure this largest violation of civil liberties doesn't happen again.

  • Crit_Reasoning

    The poetic beauty of the daylily metaphor brought tears to my eyes.

    There is a certain temporal inevitability to all this. Blooms will fade from memory. Rhetoric's colour will drain with the passage of time, and its intoxicating aroma will leave behind only a mild and swiftly forgotten hangover.

    Wherry, no matter how quixotic the quest may seem, keep plugging away. No matter how ephemeral the bloom, keep quibbling. No matter how passing the fancy, keep sketching the words spoken in that hallowed House.

    However pointless it sometimes seems, it is vital to our democracy that meaning be extended beyond nightfall. Keep arguing with the sun.

    • Phil_King

      Okay, who slipped the happy juice into Crit's coffee? LOL

      (Not that I disagree with him) ;)

  • John Feldsted

    This is a pointless article. What has the Ontario Ombudsman got to do with the federal government? (The) G20 summit . . . was the scene of “the most massive compromise of civil liberties in Canadian history” ?? How over the top!! Do the Japanese, German and Ukranian Internments and the 1970 (Quebec) War measures Act suddenly disappear from our history?

    Ontario and Toronto are responsible for the actions of their respective police forces and the Ontario Ombudsman can deal with that. Trying to extend that responsiblity to the federal jurisdiction is asking to confuse the responsiblity needlessly.

    "However colourful those words, it can at least be said that the law invoked in that case was rather troublesome. And that, above and beyond the question of said law, those few days in Toronto, reputedly the scene of the largest mass arrest in this nation’s history, are now the subject of widespread and pointed concern." What law, Mr. Wharry? With many others, you allude to some law or extension of law enacted for the Summit, but produce no evidence thereof.

    This is a sordid excuse for journalism.

    • Brian P

      FYI: It's a blog, people.

      You'd swear Mr. Wherry came out of nowhere and pimp-slapped your collective grandmothers for the amount of moaning, whining and bellows of "J'ACCUSE" you toss at him. Learn some friggin' (may I say frig?) context! Here's a hint: When a piece of writing begins with the praising of flowers, perhaps it is not quite the serious piece of journalism you all crave.

    • ex-canuck

      Like too much stuff emanating from the source cited.

    • tedbetts

      Missing the point about taking credit and passing blame, are we?

      And by the way, the federal government was in charge of security for the G20 and enlisted the RCMP, the OPP, the Toronto Police and even police from around the country to help out.

  • tobyornotoby

    The appropriate body for examining this issue is called criminal court. If we had an actual independent investigating body in this country, police officers who took off their badges and beat people with sticks would be answering assault and related charges there.

    And any police officer, including Chief Blair, but also RCMP and OPP officers who fail to cooperate with identifying those officers and providing evidence, would join them in the docket on charges of obstructing justice. That's where we decide what's legal and what's illegal, not in press conferences or Question Period or ombudsman reports.

    And unless that happens, that police who are suspected of a crime are investigated and arrested, we don't actually have the rule of law in this country. We're aren't equal before the law if some of us can be beaten and others can adminster the beatings with impunity.

    • tobyornotoby

      And, if I might add, political jurisdiction doesn't matter if all of the jurisdictions, civic, provincial and federal, are all pretending that their respective complaints processes, deliberately broken and ineffective complaints processes, are the way to deal with what happened at the G20.

      Why should anyone have to make a complaint? It was on TV, it's on the Internet, and we have witnesses all around us including police officers who were there when the alleged offences occurred. The minister and his counterparts in Toronto should be asking why isn't anyone being charged?

      Unitl they do that, they are excusing the behaviour, and failing to uphold Canada's laws. They are the ones who are hugging the thugs, the ones in police uniforms.

      • kcm

        Well said.

  • Diana1976

    “Mr. Speaker,” Rob Nicholson declared, ….. “no group of individuals has more respect for human rights in our country than the Conservative Party … "

    Would that be the same "Justice" Minister who responded to the Supreme Court"s declaration that Canada was participating in the illegal treatment of a Canadian citizen, contrary to principles of fundamental justice, Canadian and international law, by sending a note to the US asking them not to use illegally obtained Canadian evidence in his trial, a tiny part of the evidence obtained illegally by Americans at their notorious prisons of Bagram and Gtmo?

    Is that the same "Justice" Minister who announced publically his government didn't even care if they got a response to the note?

    I sure hope they don't represent the best we can do on human rights.

  • Diana1976

    Is that the same Conservative Party who mislead Canadians into thinking that Omar Khadr somehow didn't qualify under the international, and Canadian law, on minors involved in armed conflict?

    ….Contrary to the plain language of the law, the Gtmo judge who said no so thing (the law was superseded by the MCA passed years after he was captured and it has no lower age limit on who can be prosecuted) and the representative of the UN program on "child soldiers".

From Macleans