Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW
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Categories: Capital Read, Inkless Wells

"What others can aspire to"

by Paul Wells on Wednesday, December 8, 2010 12:42pm - 47 Comments

Good news can be important too. “There are many success stories,” OECD Secretary-General Angel Guerra said upon the release of the international PISA school-achievement tests this week. “Shanghai, Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Finland, Canada: In very different cultural and economic contexts, their education systems have all been able to achieve strong and equitable education outcomes.”

So out of six countries singled out for the kind of achievement “others can aspire to,” Canada gets a mention. The separate video presentation on schools in Ontario, one of four jurisdictions selected by the OECD for a drill-down, is so flattering to that province’s current government that I’m just going to let you see it for yourself.

Obviously there’s still plenty of room for politics. You can argue that other parties, or a given reform, would produce better results. But one specific feature of Canada’s education systems is worth noting, preserving and working to reinforce: the low correlation between socio-economic background and education outcomes. In Canada more than in almost any country, relative poverty doesn’t lock a student into poor school performance, which means it needn’t lock a young person out of a rewarding career. It’s a huge asset.

Tags: education, PISA

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Stewart_Smith

Wells said.
PeteTong

Thanks Premier Dad.
chrimartel

This is why UK in 20ish-th
Andrew (not PorC)

Is this a case of teaching the test? After all, this province nearly abolished calculus from the provincial curriculum. Had the universities not revolted, they likely would have. Unfortunately, I don't think the OECD measures performance in calculus.

Tybalt

The PISA's mathematics component measures, broadly speaking, numeracy skills. In other words, it's a broad-based skills assessment, wide instead of narrow and deep. (It measures fairly basic but universally important mathematical skills extrapolated and applied in a problem-solving way… there is lots of detail in their framework document at http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/11/40/44455820.pdf)

The ability to derive the generalized Stokes's theorem, while a neat party trick, is not really useful to 99.9% of people. It makes no sense to measure the success of Ontario's education system by testing how many high-school leavers have calculus. (Any student with a serious interest in math is going to be racing ahead of the curriculum anyway. I did, back in the day.)

Andrew (not PorC)

I sure hope that wasn't an argument that we don't need calculus in high school. It's never been mandatory, but not even offering it is criminal.

Tybalt

Not at all! I think it should be offered everywhere there is a demand (and if budgets are a problem, honours calc is a type of course that can easily be taught by distance ed). But I am strongly in favour of challenging students at the secondary level.

I would point out that with Grade 13 no longer offered, the equation changes. Considerably more 18-year-olds than 17-year-olds are equipped for calculus. I took calc in Grade 12 (not in Ontario) in my (private) school, but it wasn't offered in public school.
Tybalt

(The point was simply that you don't test school/education system performance by testing calculus, anymore than you judge how good a hockey team by the number of times it wins by 8 goals).

hosertohoosier

What exactly would be the payoff to teaching to the PISA? There is no reward for doing well on it as is the case with say, tests in the US under no child left behind.

Mulletaur

"Obviously there’s still plenty of room for politics. You can argue that other parties, or a given reform, would produce better results."

What, like taking money out the public school system to pay for private schools, like the Ontario PC's want to do ? Does anybody seriously believe that would produce a better result for anybody ?

Mark

"Does anybody seriously believe that would produce a better result for anybody ?"

It would produce better results for those who can afford private schools, not so much for everyone else.

gottabesaid

Much of the groundwork for improving student achievement in Ontario was laid by the Harris government when it was in power… the provincial government of the day hasn't done much to dismantle what the Tories did — like standardized testing, standardized curriculum. The Tories weren't so good at labour relations, but in terms of in-classroom performance, the Conservatives set those wheels in motion. The Liberals improved on it. Gotta give credit where it's due.

Emily

We don't have either, actually.
mhiggins

A quote from the report:

"From 2003 to 2010, Ontario was a world leader in its sustained strategy of professionally-driven reform of its
education system. Initiated by Premier Dalton McGuinty following his election in 2003, the Ontario strategy has
achieved widespread positive results in increasing elementary literacy and numeracy, improving graduation rates,
and reducing the number of low-performing schools. The constellation of elements that came together to allow this
strategy to succeed is described below."

Read on: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/47/46580959.pdf
Inkless

The OECD video actually makes the explicit link gottabesaid makes. McGuinty didn't dismantle useful Conservative reforms, but he also (re-)recruited teachers as allies in achieving outcomes, and poured resources into underperfoming schools instead of giving up on them.

mhiggins

Fair enough. I can't watch the video because I'm at work. I've just been skimming over the report, which is heavy on praise in terms of what McGuinty and Kennedy, with the help of University of Toronto advisors, did differently from previous governments. There is actually a lot of focus in the report on how destructive the Harris government approach was on the relationship between the teachers and the province.

mhiggins

On second reading, this appears to be the extent of the praise for the previous government in the report:

"The conservative government is generally credited with having created a province-wide curriculum and instituted an accompanying assessment and accountability framework…"

That sentence continues with a "but."

I understand that good policy is good policy no matter who proposes it, but I think this particular report goes out of its way to praise the reforms of the current government, referred to specifically as bottom-up reforms.

gottabesaid

I think you have to consider what came before Harris' reforms… the improvements were significant, if not fundamental, and are definitely worth noting. The report understates it somewhat, IMHO. Much of what McGuinty has done has dovetailed nicely on the reforms that came before.

That's about as far as I'll pull my pom-poms out for Harris with regard to education. I'd also argue (and as the report suggests) that much of the good from Harris' reforms were outweighed at the time by the needlessly poisonous relationship he had with teachers. Schools were often very depressing places during much of his tenure.
Jenn_

Precisely. We voted Harris in because he had good ideas. His implementation of those ideas completely ruined the good in them.

http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

How dare you say that teacher morale is important! Why do you hate freedom, sir?

Blue

gbs—-ignore the usual negativity from frequent flyer.
I may not agree with you much of the time but I have no doubt you are correct that if there has been improvement in Ontario`s education system, then it did begin with the standardized testing and curriculum initiated by the Harris gov`t 15 years ago.
I also believe that, as Andrew has mentioned, there is considerable " teaching the test " happening in the classroom just prior to test time.

Tybalt

Based on what, Blue?

I have two boys in school here and haven't ever seen it. And we would notice, because my kids don't take EQAO.

Blue

So you don`t think the Grade 3,6 and 9`s don`t receive special attention from their frantic teachers just prior to the provincial testing. You better talk to your 2 boys again.

mhiggins

I have been very impressed in the last few years with what I've seen from this province as far as education reforms go. Two friends of my are recent U of T M.Ed. graduates and they, too, have been very impressed. (We all recently came to Ontario from N.B. a few years ago.)

The Pathways to Education program is the most obvious example of truly successful local reforms that focus on eliminating that correlation between background and outcome.
jad

From the Society for Quality Education
http://www.societyforqualityeducation.org/index.p…

"Comparing the performance of Ontario students on this test with their performance three years ago on the 2006 test, their raw scores dropped 3 points in reading, stayed the same in math, and dropped 6 points in science. The combination of this drop in raw scores and the entrance of two very successful countries (China and Singapore) means that Ontario dropped from 5th place in reading to 6th place, from 10th place to 13th place in math, and from 5th place to 10th place in science."

Way to go, Dalton

Tybalt

And yet, Ontario was singled out by the OECD for lavish praise for its efforts since 2003. Funny, that. On the one side a massive international organization dedicated to growth and development, on the other side a tiny splinter group with an agenda and an axe to grind.
mhiggins

So a successful Premier would have Ontario at 1st place in all categories in perpetuity, and nothing less, correct? I think you're nitpicking.

jad

No I think a successful Premier would not have numbers going downwards.

JonathanDursi

3 to 6 points out of scores of 500+ are supposed to be significant downwards trends? BS. If it continues trending downwards by the same amount over decades, sure; but we're supposed to believe that the precision of these tests is such that a ~1% change over 3 years is a significant downard trend? Pfeh.

TJCook

Uh huh – the SQE calls for faith-based education and voucher systems.

I'll believe the OECD before a rightwing think tank any day.

Tybalt

One of the principal SQE people was a Headmaster at my former school. Let's just say that I wouldn't put too much stock in anything he had to say about education.

Richard Nelson

I think that Ontario (& Canada's) success at breaking the link between a child's socioeconomic status and their educational opportunities does not rest with the McGuinty Ministry – or even the Robards one! Canada has always done a more or less good job of providing decent education to (almost) all its children.

You can pick apart certain sectors (First Nations springs to mind) where this hasn't worked. And I can myself rant for an hour – or three – about things that need much improvement.

But I know that I, personally, was lucky to have been born in Ontario, and to have gone to Ontario public schools (and one year in B.C.) – and I started in the system in 1959. I went to ordinary schools in ordinary places (with 2 years' exception I'd say we lived in "3rd quartile" areas), and got a very good education, and went to university, etc., etc. Having read Paul's biography, I wonder if his experience is the same. My American clients & colleagues distort their lives so that their kids can have a good education – we don't have to.

mhiggins

I think you are correct. But I also think that the McGuinty government pretty much owns the reforms that are praised in this specific report.
http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

Except that Ontario's done better than other provinces.

matt

Eh? Not quite sure that's true. Ontario's not the worst, but it didn't lead any of the math/science/reading categories. And, while the OECD video is favourable, as I recall BC/On have a large fraction of private schools relative to other provinces.

Inkless

It's also not easy to discern whether the disconnect between socio-economic background and school outcomes is entirely attributable to the schools. Canada is, happily, just generally a place with a lot of good social capital floating around: worse-off Canadians are not widely assumed to be layabouts or write-offs, so social mobility, while far from perfect, exists more concretely than in some other countries. Schools may simply benefit from that, as well as contributing.

I came to this section of the PISA report via a Belgian news item. Belgium's a lovely place in a lot of ways. But poor kids are far likelier to underperform in school there. Which means social mobility is badly compromised. That's a lesser but nagging problem in the United States and France, and it's pretty much catastrophic in Peru, Bulgaria and a few other countries. Think of all the other problems that are unlikely to get better if there's no route out of poverty.

Emily

And since the only route out of poverty is education, it's a vicious circle…Catch 22…whatever.
kcm

I have fond memories of failing the 11+ in Britain [ actually i don't even remember realizing i'd taken it, let alone failing it ] which set me unbeknowst on the road to an officially sanctioned career as dustbin man – a worthy occupation i failed dismally to live up to. Now i see my daughter receiving the inclusive kind of education here in Canada that sometimes leaves me wondering what if?. Hopefully times have changed in Britain too, but we really are such a fortunate society. Although…i find mself a little frustrated that she's not rote learning her times table. I guess those guys learned me something after all.

Emily

The Daily Mail is rarely happy about anything, but they are really 'not happy' with the UK ranking
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336410/O…
Thwim

Rote memorization of anything is rarely useful these days. Think of it in terms of opportunity costs.. what would your daughter not be learning during the time she spent memorizing what can instead be done on pretty much any piece of electronics she happens to be carrying at the moment?

http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

Good news can be important too.

You'd never know this was good news the way the right whingers and their media propagandists are hyperventilating over a drop in ranking. Since their education was obviously lacking someone should set them straight on how little significance there is to a change in ranking amongst the top nations.

jad

So there is little or no significance in a change in ranking ? At what point does it then become significant ? And if there is no significance, ever, why do we bother to measure it ?

http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

At what point does it then become significant ?

When there are underlying factors that can account for a change in ranking. In this case there are none and the change in ranking is attributable to nothing more than statistical noise.

http://www.robedger.blogspot.com/ Robin_E

relative poverty doesn’t lock a student into poor school performance, which means it needn’t lock a young person out of a rewarding career.

Unless something else is locking them out of a rewarding career. We would need some evidence showing a low correlation between socio-economic background and future rewarding careers before we could reasonably believe it to be the case. That evidence may exist, but it isn't in this post.

Thwim

I think that concept was encompassed in the term "needn't".. it doesn't discount the idea that there may be other factors.. but it saying tha this one ain't it.

MaggiesFarmboy

I note that the study compared Canada not to "China"', but to wealthy cities like Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Macao. provinces like Qinghai and Gansu were not included.

One wonders how, for example, Calgary, Toronto, and Vancouver would fare in isolation.

Of course, the Globe would have us believe that Canada is "slipping"…
madeyoulook

relative poverty doesn’t lock a student into poor school performance, which means it needn’t lock a young person out of a rewarding career. It’s a huge asset.

Aye. That's a massive asset. Indeed, if you've learned a thing or two and you want to apply yourself, success, for the most part, awaits.