Inkless Wells

Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW
He also offers his thoughtful perspective of Stephen Harper’s last 10 years in his recent eBook, The Harper Decade.

Housequakes

by Paul Wells on Wednesday, December 15, 2010 12:28pm - 253 Comments

The most interesting sentence in Chantal Hébert’s column this morning is this one: “At 42 per cent, the combined Liberal/NDP score just about matches the Liberal result in Quebec in the last Chrétien campaign in 2000.” That’s what a divided opposition looks like. That spectacle was familiar to Jean Chrétien, who won three majorities against a divided opposition; and it is familiar to Stephen Harper, who repaired the divisions that helped Chrétien and worked hard at aggravating divisions among Liberals and between the Liberals and the NDP.

Chantal’s point is that the NDP and the Liberals are cannibalizing each other’s votes in Quebec, to the Bloc’s advantage. Her point in any other province could have been, and sometimes lately has been, that the NDP and Liberals often cannibalize each other’s votes in other parts of the country too. Her remedy, and she has been strikingly insistent on this point, is that Jean Chrétien and Ed Broadbent had a point several months ago when they started agitating for a formal merger of those two opposition parties.

I think she has a point. As is often the case, history offers great big neon-bright lessons written in letters 14 feet high, which are nonetheless apparently easy to forget.

The Liberals are hoping that carefully chipping away is the route to power. “Politics is a game of inches,” Michael Ignatieff told reporters from the Maclean’s Ottawa bureau during a dinner meeting several months ago. He mimed inching forward up a steep slope, inch by precarious inch. Then — he really is very good at self-deprecating humour — he mimed plummetting backward into an abyss. But never mind the plunge into the abyss. Canadian politics in my lifetime has actually very rarely been a game of inches. Yes, political parties are well-advised to try to win each day’s news cycle, so their credibility doesn’t slowly erode and so they are well-placed to take advantage of the next tectonic shift. But big changes in Canadian politics are more often the result of similar tectonic shifts.

How did Stephen Harper become Prime Minister? Sure, he’s perceived by millions of Canadians outside Ottawa as blandly pleasant, sympthetic to ordinary people and generally competent. He runs a tight communications ship. He often wins the news cycle. But if he had done all of those things as leader of the Canadian Alliance, running against a reasonably viable Progressive Conservtive party featuring Peter MacKay, Jim Prentice, Loyola Hearn and Maxime Bernier, he’d have maybe 70 seats today. More likely he’d be an ex-politician by now. He won because he bet everything on his ability to merge his party with the party he had entered electoral politics to fight, the heirs of Joe Clark and Brian Mulroney. And on his ability to win that party’s leadership, and to limit the exodus of rock-ribbed Reformers and centrist Progressive Conservatives from the new organization. Suddenly Liberals like Joe Jordan who’d hung onto marginal seats thanks to a divided opposition were toast. The advantages of incumbency shifted to the Harper Conservatives, which means it will always be harder to defeat him than it would have been to keep him from winning.

How did Jean Chrétien become Prime Minister in 1993? Sure, he re-asserted his party’s credibility among working-class voters after seven years of John Turner. But that’s not how he picked up 94 seats. Mostly he benefited from the collapse of the Mulroney coalition into three discrete parties, the PC, Reform and Bloc Québécois. (That collapse began early. The founding Reform convention in Winnipeg happened three years after Mulroney won the largest majority in Canadian history.)

So Chrétien wins because the conservative coalition collapses and Harper wins when it is durably rebuilt. You have to go back to Mulroney’s election in 1984 to find an opposition party winning durable victory in the absence of a structural realignment of the party system. But that election happened during a time of political turbulence that simply has no parallel today. Between Trudeau’s last election in 1980 and the rise of Mulroney, Canada went through the first Quebec referendum, the repatriation of the Constitution after a gruelling series of first ministers’ meetings, and the National Energy Program. Oh, and the replacement of the incumbent prime minister by a profoundly shaky semi-retiree whose ambitious opponent refused to stop plotting behind his back.

Today’s politics simply has no equivalent set of circumstances.

So. To sum up: outside the Joe Clark blip, you simply don’t get a durable change in power in today’s Canada without a structural realignment of the party system, or a period of political upheaval so drastic as to resemble a structural realignment. Stephen Harper is running full-time against a quasi-imaginary “coalition” because he gets that. He saw, in December 2008, that the NDP leadership gets it. He knows that elements within the Liberal party, currently largely discredited, get it. He needs to scare Michael Ignatieff off the structural-realignment dime if he is to hold power. Fortunately for him, the prime minister’s task is not particularly difficult.

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  • Dale D.

    And what happens to that coalition when Harper leaves?

    Many inside the CPC suspect it will crumble into factions once again. If the Liberals lose their nerve and sell their soul to the unions, they will be ill positioned to take advantage of the ensuing carnage on the right.

    • sourstud

      Hmm, that's a good point.

    • madeyoulook

      I am no fan of the Liberals, but I would URGE them, as the only credible alternative governing party, to offer more to Canadians than a Taliban-like you-have-watches-but-we-have-time strategy of waiting Harper out.

      Not that I am advocating a merger. I think that would be a disaster to the Liberals, and an undeserved thread of micro-credibility to the NDP. But darn it if the Liberals mightn't like to try poaching supporters from all corners, including Dipperland…

  • Tyler

    Media voter theory for the win. The final resting place of any FPTP voting system is a two party system. Good article.

    • jcherniak

      Then why not change to a preferential ballot system, where there is no such thing as a "wasted vote"? That would be a different form of structural realignment and it has broad appeal to the extent that every political party and many organizations use a form of it internally.

      • non-partisan

        The only vote that is wasted is the one that isn’t cast. Every vote is counted for the person it is cast for, not “against” someone else as some people would prefer.

  • Emily

    Under our current system, 4 parties are 2 too many.

    I suggest the Libs and NDP abandon all suggestions of a coalition, and simply merge.

    Permanently.

    The Liberal Democrats.

    Then Cons and LibDems point out to Quebec that they are dealing themselves out of any federal decisions affecting them as long as they continue to vote for the Bloc.

    • Andrew (not PorC)

      That's exactly what the BQ wants in order to foster alienation in Quebec.

    • PolJunkie

      "Then Cons and LibDems point out to Quebec that they are dealing themselves out of any federal decisions affecting them as long as they continue to vote for the Bloc. "

      Spoken like someone with no understanding of Quebec politics. Such a proposition would strengthen the Bloc, not weaken it.

      • Emily

        Federalists in Quebec would remain federalist, separatists would remain separatists….and all the bribery in the world doesn't help.

        • PolJunkie

          Emily, plenty of Quebec federalists vote for the Bloc. While the ROC views the Bloc strictly through the prism of "they want to destroy Canada," Quebecers view it as a regional party.

          If all the people voting BQ were separatists, there'd be enough support right there for secession. There isn't. You do the math.

          • Emily

            It's not mandatory you know. I said it's what should be suggested to Quebeckers. If they want to continue to vote Bloc they'll do so, regardless of what anyone says.

            However, the Quebecois are a practical bunch, and if the Bloc isn't getting them what they want, they'll switch.

          • PolJunkie

            I hear you, Emily. I'm just saying to you that the mere suggestion of this will land on Quebecers the wrong way. Truth be told, it is blackmail. Either you vote for us or you won't be factored in our policy decisions.

            What would you do if you were faced with such an ultimatum and were Quebecois?

          • Emily

            Then focus on the main point…merging the Libs and Dems.

          • PolJunkie

            Negative. A terrible idea.

          • Emily

            No, a solution to the inertia in the country.

          • alfanerd

            as much as it pains me to agree with Emily, its not an ultimatum, its a simple reality.

          • kcm

            I presume you don't think much of " Lord"Black's idea for all the federal parties to only run one candidate in Quebec? [ per each riding of course]

          • Emily

            I don't read Black, but all parties run 1 candidate per riding now, so I have no idea what that means.

          • kcm

            You don't read Black, you endure him – but he does try to think outside the box – at least lately.

            My bad. I believe he suggested that the cons/libs/ndp jointly only run one fereal option candidate per riding, presumeably in order to bring the bloq to the table. As PJ has pointed out, that may not be such a good idea.

          • kcm

            er…that's federal not fereal.

          • MostlyCivil

            "You don't read Black, you endure him – but he does try to think outside the box …"

            Is he inside or outside the box? Is he in the box because he carried the boxes?

            Someone stop me…

          • kcm

            I believe he's presently outside the box, but with every likelihood of being inside the box again.

    • Reverend_Blair

      The NDP and the Liberals are two very different parties and their base support comes from very different places, Emily. That base support is where the money comes from.

      A lot would depend on the final product of the merger, but if the Liberals are calling the shots in the merged party, I'm out of there and so is money, my donated time, etc..

      If there was a full merger, I suspect that new parties would form to fill the void.

    • alfanerd

      December 16, 2010, 10:50am. I agree with Emily. I'll go see a shrink now – make sure everything is ok.

  • Amateur Hour

    It took about 5 years for Harper to rise from being an opposition leader to being PM.
    Iggy's been opposition leader for only 2 years.
    Please get a grip – and some perspective.

    To wit: If Iggy runs a decent campaign and GAINS seats for his party in the next election, he'll get another another crack at being leader and another shot at an election. On the other hand, if Harper fails to win a MAJORITY, he'll be out the door. He's had 3 general elections as leader (one loss, two minorities) and he's on much more precarious turf than Iggy because the expectations on him are so high.

    As for Layton, he's done like diner within his own party, especially if he leads them to a seventh-consecutive 4th place finish. It was he who branded it "Jack Layton's NDP", and he'll pay the price for another expensive failure.

    • Inkless

      Three years and ten months. See above for what Harper did during that time.

      • Amateur Hour

        Amended:
        It took about FOUR years for Harper to rise from being an opposition leader to being PM.
        Iggy's been opposition leader for only 2 years.
        Please get a grip – and some perspective.

        As for Harper's accomplishments: http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/12/15/a-wasted-year/
        (More than a wasted year, BTW, as most of the stalled legislation was recycled from the prior year.)

        And if Iggy gains seats (note the "if") and Harper fails to win a majority (again), which of the 4 current party leaders are most likely to still be in their job this time next year?

        • http://twitter.com/jonatwitan @jonatwitan

          Woah woah woah, let's slow down a bit here.

          First, you exaggerated Harper's time as opposition leader by 14 months (I'm not very good at math but I think that comes out to adding 30% to the real number), and then amended it so that your exaggeration was only two months (better by far, but still a 5% exaggeration…okay, maybe not an exaggeration at this point).

          Second, to Inkless' comment that Harper did a lot during those 48 months (excuse me, 46 months), you point out that the government did not do very much LEGISLATIVELY (I hate caps, but I have no other option) in the PRESENT year. Slight disconnect there, I would suggest.

          Anyway, do continue, this is all very good fun.

          • Amateur Hour

            "… you point out that the government did not do very much LEGISLATIVELY (I hate caps, but I have no other option) in the PRESENT year."

            No, Le Devoir did that: "Of the 61 pieces of legislation the Conservatives introduced in the House over the last 12 months, 33 were recycled from the previous session of Parliament; and as of right now, 18 of those 33 bills are either at the same stage or further away from being made law than they were before prorogation. In fact, only three of the recycled bills have received royal assent … Counting the three bills that are set to be granted royal assent Wednesday afternoon, the Conservatives will have passed a meagre 11 bills through Parliament over the past 12 months…"

            My "BTW" comment to Mr. Wells was pointing out that the PRESENT year's legislative failures are in addition to the PRIOR year, where Harper killed a further 36 of his own government's bills via proroguing. Indeed, several of the bills that will die this session were originally killed with his snap election of 2008, only to die again in 2009 and 2010. About half relate to his vaunted justice agenda.

            When it comes to winning elections, Harper is two for three (hey, a minority is win).
            When it comes to passing legislation, he's a complete disaster.

          • Holly Stick

            But the Conservative way of thinking is that it is not important to run the country well; it is only important to win elections and destroy your opposition. This is why they are governing so badly.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            I look forward to the Republicans in the New Year calling in your team to testify under oath about the Global warming theory.

            Those hearings will be so much fun.

          • Mike R

            Governing the country well and passing a lot of legislation are not the same thing.

          • sourstud

            I think what they're trying to say, is: What Harper's done as PM has nothing to do with what Harper did as opposition leader.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            In other words your team is not enjoying getting bludgeoned over the head with the same legislation?

            The majority (opposition) could have allowed the bills to return en masse. They chose to spend time allege cover up calling our government, troops war criminals and talk about an airport security breach.

            The priorities of the MP's in the cheap seats are not those of regular Canadians.

      • Margaret

        Nice to see the Old Men Muppets!

    • hollinm

      Nice try at diverting the attention away from Ignatieff. The fact is if you look at the political landscape it is hard to know where the Libs will pick up seats let alone win a minority government. They need 40+ seats if they are going to win power. Short of Atlantic Canada they have little strength across the country. The GTA is always good for the Libs but they have most of those seats and a few of them will be lost in the next campaign.
      Harper has complete control of the party and it does not necessarily follow that he will be out if he fails to win a majority. The political landscape for federalists is difficult given the grip the Bloc holds on Quebec. it is tough to win a majority government for any federalist party.
      Layton is fine because there is no heir apparent.

      • Amateur Hour

        I'm not that into Iggy. Indeed, my thoughts were mainly about the leaders of the OTHER parties and what their prospects are. Gilles may finally run for the PQ given the situation with Charest. Jack will surprise everyone if he holds on to the leadership after another 4th place fail. Harper really has set the bar high for himself (majority). Iggy could return the Libs to where Martin had them and hold on for another election … but it would be a precarious situation, for sure. Long run for the Liberals … maybe Dominic LeBlanc?

        • hollinm

          Can't disagree.

        • http://twitter.com/jonatwitan @jonatwitan

          I have to agree that I'm not really sure where all these comments about Harper needing a majority in order to stay on as leader. If you can point me to the source, I would be glad to educate myself. Otherwise, I think it is a line that anti-Harperites – not necessarily any of you – run for some mysterious reason, perhaps because it fits with their view that Harper has some grandiose idea of himself as our king that he simply cannot settle for less than. I don't know, if that's not it, then what is it? And further to that point, when you suggest that Harper "really has set the bar high for himself", is that supposed to be some criticism of Harper, that he is not realistic or something? I mean, what other bar is he going to set?

          (Harper at the kickoff for Election '11): "All right troops, it's ours for the taking! We're all in this together, so let's go show Canada that we're number one. Let's go get those 135 seats!" (mad cheering erupts within the hall, followed by Harper and Putin performing "Blueberry Hill" together…no one saw that coming!)

          • Margaret

            Wouldn't Harper be able to do more of what he wants to do, if he has a majority?

    • Out There

      On the other hand, if Harper fails to win a MAJORITY, he'll be out the door.

      I don't see this happening. Who would have the nerve to organize a coup of Harper, or would be willing to stand up to be counted as a potential successor? Harper seems to have them all cowed.

      • PeteTong

        Doesn't seem like a good idea for the leader of a minority government to step down.

      • sourstud

        Exactly. Not to mention all current polling suggests he'll pick up a few more seats in the next election. Why would the party want to dump a guy that has been progressively growing support for the party? To roll the dice with someone after what would quite likely be a very divisive leadership campaign? I can't see it. Harper will be around for at least one more election cycle.

  • john g

    Both Chretien and Harper also won in the shadow of the incumbent government being mired in scandal. I'm starting to believe that is also a necessary precondition.

    • Orson Bean

      And, while stretching a bit, Mulroney's knockout blow against Turner in 1984 was in the televised debate when he hammered Turner on the scandal surrounding Trudeau's patronage appointments.

    • http://twitter.com/jonatwitan @jonatwitan

      Why do you think that the word "scandal" emerges from the opposition party at every possible chance? Why do you think there are calls for public inquiries about every single issue? If you are starting to think that way, then you truly are starting to think like the opposition parties.

      • Orson Bean

        Good point. It's like scandals are like crack cocaine to opposition politicians — they can get into power without having to actually come up with any ideas or program of their own for governing.

  • hollinm

    The opposition parties generally speaking are in disarray. Layton keeps harping on the same old things i.e. reduced home heating costs, credit card interest rates etc. While there may be a limited constituency for this kind of thing most Canadians ignore these type of policies as being simplistic
    .
    On the other hand the Liberals are wandering in the wilderness of desperation. So they resort to talking about tactics, strategies and process and of course trying to create the air of scandal which few believe.

    Meanwhile Harper is spreading himself across the centre which has resulted in Ignatieff moving to the left i.e. EI after 45 days, homecare. no corporate tax decreases etc.

    In the meantime policy announcements are sparse and when they take place you can drive a truck through the holes Ignatieff leaves i.e. costs.

    The framing of Ignatieff is still there i.e. having been out of the country 34 years and he cannot shake it. People believe he is not who he pretends to be.

    So I agree there are no tectonic shifts taking place and Canadians will probably stick with what they know. The question is will it be a majority or another minority. We shall see. Its too early to tell.

    • Amateur Hour

      Of course on stimulus spending, the post- 2011 Afghan mission and on extending the deadline for stimulus projects, Harper was forced to adopt the Liberal platform. But keep whistling in the dark, sir.

      • hollinm

        This is the Liberal platform? I have not seen it. Can you direct me to where I can find it in writing? There has been a lot of whaling and knashing of teeth but I didn't know the Libs had a platform.
        You are right the opposition demanded spending, then said it wasn't going out the door fast enough and then it was too much and then oh my God we have a deficit and now the government is very bad for having a deficit. If that is not a sign of confusion I don't know what is.
        The extension of the Afghan mission? Do you honestly believe the government wanted to leave Afghanistan despite the rhetoric. The Libs fell for it hook, line and sinker. They played right into the government's hands. Having said that the Libs made the right call by supporting the extension of the mission for training purposes.
        Extending the deadline for the stimulus? I didn't see the Libs demanding it. The Bloc did. However, I don't think the government had any intention of arbitrarily cutting off funds but they hung in to ensure the provinces did what they needed to do to get the projects tidied up asap.

        • YYZ

          It's posted on a website right next to the Conservative platform.

      • hollinm

        hollinm continued….

        So if you think these things are a counter to my comments that the opposition parties are in disarray feel free. I believe Canadians see it this way as well. Despite a significant recession, an unpopular war, higher than normal unemployment and now a significant deficit and of course the never ending attempts at scandal mongering Canadians ain't buying what the opposition is putting on offer.

      • alfanerd

        ah great a Liberal who admits that the Liberals are responsible for the current deficit. Thank you.

    • kcm

      'The framing of Ignatieff is still there i.e. having been out of the country 34 years and he cannot shake it. People believe he is not who he pretends to be.'

      Yawn! Must be a slow day at PMO central command…using old filler bumpf. Ignatieff may not have much national traction, but that doesn't mean the public who are paying attention buy the PMO propaganda either…the public just doesn't seem to like the guy.

      • hollinm

        Ok…..I can't disagree with your assessment as well. However, there is something more than what you suggest though.

        There is a reason Canadians don't like him. Canadians are generally fair minded and are prepared to give someone a chance. However, from day one they have not warmed up to the guy.

        He has tried everything. Talking about himself , talking to kids in high schools and universities, touring the country talking to Liberal supporters, holding staged townhalls and of course standing up in the House of Commons with his eyebrows in full revolt and his hands in a praying position and still nothing works.

        Part of the problem I think is that there is nothing new coming out of his mouth. Its the same old Liberal bromides that Canadians have heard for years i.e. daycare. When something does come out it results in a flip flop of some sort. So I think its more than people just don't like him.

        • http://twitter.com/jonatwitan @jonatwitan

          Oh my goodness you didn't include "writing a book about how Canadian he is" in your list!

          • hollinm

            You're right. I also forgot him telling Canadians that he went to public school in Canada. Yikes.

      • hollinm

        Ok…..I can't disagree with your assessment as well. However, there is something more than what you suggest though.

        There is a reason Canadians don't like him. Canadians are generally fair minded and are prepared to give someone a chance. However, from day one they have not warmed up to the guy.

        He has tried everything. Talking about himself , talking to kids in high schools and universities, touring the country talking to Liberal supporters, holding staged townhalls and of course standing up in the House of Commons with his eyebrows in full revolt and his hands in a praying position and still nothing works.

        Part of the problem I think is that there is nothing new coming out of his mouth. Its the same old Liberal bromides that Canadians have heard for years i.e. daycare. When something does come out it results in a flip flop of some sort which hurts his credibility. So I think its more than people just don't like him.

        • kcm

          I'm not sure that many OC's are paying that much attention – yet. It could go either way in an election, remember Harper's no-ones pinup either. Furthermore Jack is liked, but i doubt that'll help that much come election time. I pretty much agree that until fairly recently Ignatieff has been a bit of a disappointment on the new ideas front. I've always held the view that he spends too much time taliking about what he isn't ie., Harper, and not enough time talking about what he is[ philosophically and politically] More than a few libs are still wondering what he is – perhaps the public too – to the extent they pay any attention at all.

          • hollinm

            You and I are not far apart on our opinion of Igantieff I suspect. Trouble is Ignatieff keeps talking like his buddy from the South but there is no action behind the scenes to support the rhetoric. Is there one thing (policy) that Ignatieff has espoused where he has put the meat on the bones? As they say the devil is in the details. The home care thingy is much adieu about nothing. There are already policies in place. The amount of support is for 6 mos etc (I think). None of the media thought the issue was important enough so there was no serious columns on whether the policy is good, bad or indifferent. So you are right. He talks but nobody cares what he has to say.

          • kcm

            To be fair to Ignatieff the opposition leader may be the most unrewarding job in politics – neither Chretien or Harper looked good there either. I think i'll give Ignatieff one kick at the can – Manley was my guy, but that ship has sailed ; i believe he would have beaten Harper too.

      • billions

        you are correct – Canadians don't like the guy – Canadians don't trust the liberal party & just where is that $40million – yes, Canadians also have a very long memory.

        • SamDavies

          AaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadScaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!

    • gottabesaid

      'the Liberals are wandering in the wilderness of desperation'

      I've always thought of it more as The Great Fog of Irrelevance.

      • hollinm

        Ok…

      • madeyoulook

        I thought Herb Gray had retired.

    • http://Democraticprogress.blogspot.com Jesse

      I've written about their shadow platform here http://democraticprogress.blogspot.com/2010/12/two-recommendation-and-some-policies.html” rel=”nofollow”>:http://democraticprogress.blogspot.com/2010/12/two-recommendation-and-some-policies.html. I was really surprised at how much material there really is. I think it might change your mind

  • briguyhfx

    There is another choice…electoral reform. Unless we actually want to mirror for eternity the two-party dominance foolishness that leads to false hope and no change down south.

    • tobyornotoby

      A coalition that promised and delivered on electoral refrom would be free to separate and run against one another post-reform. The getting together part, even as a temporary coalition, will be even more difficult than the Conseravtive merger was, though.

      One of the parties would have to stop thinking of themselves as the Natural Governing Party and be willing to give up their hopes of a return to minority majorities. And one of the parties would have to give up on its self-image of being the Valiant Real Opposition Party for Ordinary People, since some ordinary people actually like it when the NDP form a moderate government (like in Saskatchewan and Manitoba).

      • kcm

        Even though it did turnout to be a bit of a disaster, the '08 coalition attempt did set a sort of precedent, a breaking of the ice so to speak – conventional widom had held it would not be possible then ; conventional wisdom was wrong then. It didn't necessarilly collapse because the NDP/Libs and even the Bloq couldn't compromise. If it happened once, it can happen again. Perhaps the libs are not yet sufficiently humbled, or scared yet though.

        • hollinm

          Unless the Liberals can win more seats than the Conservatives Canadians will not accept a coalition government. Somehow forming a government of losers is not what Canadians expect.
          The coalition in the U.S. was accepted because the party that won the most seats formed the coalition.

          • http://twitter.com/jonatwitan @jonatwitan

            Excellent point. Did everyone hear that?

          • http://twitter.com/jonatwitan @jonatwitan

            Wait, did you mean U.K…well them too.

          • hollinm

            You bet. Thanks for pointing it out. Need to re-read more carefully.

          • kcm

            As far as i'm aware there is no constitutional reason why they could not form a coalition [ notwithstanding Harper's bald face lie at the time] majority coaltion or not – this is what the GG will look at, not govt demagoguery. What's more there is no constitutional reason for a coaltion to be declared before or during an election [ obviously lying about it is not kosher either] as this would limit the options of Parliament in any future non CV. The correct response is: " we're not ruling anthing out."

          • hollinm

            First of all the coalition will be seen as illigitimate if the party that wins the most seats is shut out and Harper would not go down without a fight I suspect (even in the courts).
            Secondly what would be accomplished. Another minority government with the same shenangans for another 18 mos or so except the lefties would be in charge. If Harper was shut out of government having won the most seats then we would certainly see political paralysis.
            We are not talking about the constitution. We are talking about what is seen to be right. The coalition in 08 was constitutional but the GG and the majority of Canadians living outside of Quebec didn't like it one little bit.
            I agree that the opposition should keep their powder dry until the results of the election are known. However, if they go thru the election and say no coalition they will undermine their flexibility once the results are known.
            Having said that with evidence now in the history books Harper will argue for a majority as is his right because another Conservative minority will see an attempt for a coalition no matter the circumstances.

          • kcm

            Agreed the opposition shouldn't lie about its intentions. As for the constitution, it does overrule the vagaries of public opinion – that's why we hold elections.

          • hollinm

            So the constitution is the be all and end all. Tell them that over in Greece, Ireland and the U.K. were they are rioting in the streets. Do they care one iota about the constitution. I don't think so. The constitution is fine but if the people aren't happy you are going to get what is happening in Europe at this time. I will wait for David Cameron, the Prime MInister of England, running up and down the street waving the constitution. See where that gets him.
            Oh that thing about 'why we hold elections". Perhaps you should have passed that message on to Dion, Layton and Duceppe when they tried to depose the government after a Throne Speech had passed and no budget was presented and particularly since it had only been six weeks since the actual, legitimate election had taken place.

          • alfanerd

            if you think the opposition will have the luxury of not announcing its plans during the campaigns, i believe you are dreaming. every opportunity harper gets he will say, vote for me or the coalition of losers. and he will ask the opposition in the debates straight up: will you or will you not form a coalition. and if the opposition tries to have their cake and eat it too, they will likely hand harper a majority.

          • Matlock

            "Secondly what would be accomplished."

            What would be accomplished is that Harper would likely be ousted from the leadership and the Tories would put forward someone less divisive that I might be more inclined to support (*cough* Prentice *cough*)

          • hollinm

            Of course he is divisive. Anything that isn't Liberal is considered divisive. Right!

          • Matlock

            So your insinuation is Jim Prentice is a Liberal?

          • hollinm

            Trying to be cute are we? Harper is truly the politician of the year. The left wants Harper to go because he is a formidable opponent who has his own way of doing things. The fact is he has the opposition parties and the media tied up in knots. He is managing the country as he sees fit and not allowing his political opponents or the media to control him. He is a leader. The other guy is an effete, eltitist who Canadians aren't buying for one minute. Get use to it. Harper is not going anywhere.

          • Matlock

            Way to dodge my comment, which had nothing to do with Ignatieff. Then again, after our census discussion the other week, I've already decided there's at least one other Canadian worthy of the term 'Iffy'.

            Save the rhetoric about the left for a left-wing commenter. I cry for the state of fiscal conservatism. Fact of the matter is fiscal conservatism is dead in this country. As someone else on these boards said, we have a socially conservative party and two socially liberal parties. Fiscally conservative leadership hasn't existed since Paul Martin was finance minister.

            Today's Tories have taken to such a "four legs good, two legs bad" attitude towards governance that they have forgotten what it means to be fiscally conservative (small 'c' intended). Blocking foreign takeovers is not fiscally conservative. Spending $30 million more to run a census that will create garbage data is not fiscally conservative. Sole-sourcing jet fighter contracts for $16 billion and counting is not fiscally conservative. Defending supply management if it means losing out on free trade deals is not fiscally conservative.

            A Tory leader who could re-embrace such principles would be much better for Canada. Much better than Harper.

          • hollinm

            I don't entirely disagree with you. However, if the Conservative party were as you suggested they would be sitting on the opposition benches for the next 20 years. It is great to be ideological pure but the fact is the country is a lot more complex than that.

            We can stick to our small c conservative principles but as I say we would never be in government.

          • Matlock

            "However, if the Conservative party were as you suggested they would be sitting on the opposition benches for the next 20 years."

            Um, did you read Wells' article? Had we had one party running on these principles in the 90's instead of two, the Tories would have been in power a lot sooner.

            Not to mention, rather rich to say Harper is not allowing his political opponents or the media to control him when you later state he has abandoned true conservatism in favour of electability. Hell, he canceled a $39 billion foreign takeover partly to spite a newspaper reporter.

            (Don Martin, please don't follow Duffy to the Senate, you're better than that)

  • kcm

    He needs to scare Michael Ignatieff off the structural-realignment dime if he is to hold power. Fortunately for him, the prime minister’s task is not particularly difficult.'

    I see where you're going but wouldn't a lib/NDP merger be an infinitely more diffucult feat than the the Tory/Reform misaliance? Excepted widom has it that lib centrists would immediately bolt into the warm embrace of team H – lord knows where p'd off dippers go.
    Are you a stalking horse for a dastardly Harperesque plot to lure the libs to their eventual doom Mr Coalitionist Wells? Perhaps you've had a chat with the liddle guy from Shawinigan – that would be interesting

    • Orson Bean

      You're right, kcm — it would be more difficult. What people tend to overlook is that the Tory-Reform merger was essentially putting back together something that had come apart about 10-15 years previously. Liberal-NDP is nothing of the sort. They were never previously one entity, their histories are entirely different. The NDP is a member of Socialist International, for Chrissakes. The ideological conflict within a Liberal-NDP tent is immense, compared to Tory-Reform.

  • Iccyh

    While a merger may make sense if political gain is the objective, it would almost certainly limit political expression and I don't believe that would be a good thing for the country. Look at the Conservatives as an example: instead of having two parties which were relatively principled in their stances on a lot of issues, we now have one where the only thing that matters is apparently electoral success. We're poorer as a country for it.

    I also believe that if there were a Liberal/NDP merger, we run the risk of having our politics end up like US politics. With a two party system, much time is spend on manufactured disagreement rather than focusing on issues that really matter. You end up with situations where campaign finance reform in the US is effectively impossible because lobbyists have bought both parties, or where opposition to things like the Iraq war or the Patriot Act were non-existent politically. It seems to me that it would be really easy for us to head down a similar path if we only had two parties, especially given the affinity for blustery, senseless partisanship that is already expressed in Question Period. It'd be easy to ignore the huge flaws in each party and vote for them anyway so the other guy doesn't get in.

    My fantasy outcome in this situation involves the NDP realizing that proportional representation is their best hope going forward, and the Liberals becoming so desperate that they'd promise it if the NDP supported them in an explicit coalition. Proportional representation and electoral reform in general would likely be dead if there was an actual merger, since in a two party system neither would want to give up any possible advantage.

    Just thinking about this is depressing. Coalition yes, merger no.

    • McC_

      "NDP realizing that proportional representation is their best hope going forward"
      why use the gerund? the NDP "realizing" this is not new: http://archive.ndp.ca/page/4051

      • Iccyh

        That link leads me to a login prompt.

        The NDP paying lip service to supporting proportional representation (and this is so easy for them to do as a powerless third party) is very different from them being willing to make it the party's first priority. I got the strong impression reading Brian Topp's articles on the coalition negotiations that the NDP was interested first and foremost with being in government, and I can't remember seeing proportional representation mentioned anywhere in that.

        Basically, I find the NDP to be as opportunistic as any other party and I suspect that if the NDP were polling first or second rather than third, they'd forget their support for proportional representation pretty quickly.

        • McC_

          my bad: it's an old link that I copied from a previous McLeans discussion <a href="http://(http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/10/08/ignatieffs-shrinking-ambition/#IDComment103306811),” target=”_blank”>(http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/10/08/ignatieffs-shrinking-ambition/#IDComment103306811), and I didn't bother to test it before posting it here. It used to go to a press release from the federal NDP calling for PR. It might have been from the 2006 vintage. Could be wrong, but I think I recall that pushing for electoral reform was part of the (in)famous "Lend Jack Your Vote" platform.

        • hollinm

          The NDP are like any other party. They want power and Layton plotted and saw his opportunity in 08. When he thought he was going to get into government he threw away his principles pretty quickly. Suddenly the corporate tax cuts were ok and not talking about pulling out of Afghanistan were no longer priorities for the NDP. So you are right. It is all about power and the ability to influence.

          • MostlyCivil

            "When he thought he was going to get into government he threw away his principles pretty quickly"

            Making him different in only one way from the current Prime Minister.

            The current Prime Minister waited until he was sworn in to start appointing senators.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Can you link the date when the first wave large number of senators were appointed. I remember it being done as a consequence of three opposition leaders trying to take over the government and the realization the Liberals would be able to appoint 30 more friends.

            Lesson learned. You may also find it difficult to find support from the Liberals in fixing the senate until after they lost control in Dec 2009 early 2010.

            The consequence of the use of prorogue the Liberals lost committee chairs in December 2009 in the Senate.

          • MostlyCivil

            “I will not name appointed people to the Senate. Anyone who sits in the Parliament of Canada must be elected by the people they represent” – Stephen Harper, March 14, 2004

            Election day: January 23, 2006.

            Prime Minister announces appointment to the Senate
            27 February 2006
            Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced today that Her Excellency the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean, Governor General of Canada, has agreed to summon Michael M. Fortier of Québec to the Senate.
            The appointment is effective immediately.

            Your revisionist history is slipping. First day.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            He also voted for the LGR, what is your point again?

            Don't forget to bring up Income Trust flip flop too.

            You think citing a change in policy means something?

            Do you also believe in Unicorns and a free lunch?

            You believe people can't change their mind?

            Voters punish or reward the PM on those flip flops and broken promises?

          • MostlyCivil

            My point?

            I was just pointing out how wrong you were while you tried to dissmble and move the converation away from my original point. Your memory is still selective.

            But feel free to continue to raise other distractions.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Nice try, Hollinm provides clear examples of NDP flip flop on their principles for power and you introduced the senate appointments in rebuttal.

            I just added the CPC have gone back to the polls and have been rewarded for their flip flops.

            The NDP and Liberals have not been back to the polls in a general election their coup attempt.

            Any bet how that is going to work out for the "principled" left?

            Have you booked you U-Haul just in case?

          • MostlyCivil

            If you go back and read, you'll notice I cut the NDP no slack. And if you weren't so intent on scoring partisan points here, you'd notice that your real disagreement is with holinm.

            He said: "Suddenly the corporate tax cuts were ok and not talking about pulling out of Afghanistan were no longer priorities for the NDP"

            You said: "You think citing a change in policy means something?"

            Also, your use of the word "coup" is not factual. A "coup" is, in fact, the sudden, illegal deposition of an elected government. The coalition involved the desired legislative change of leadership from one party to the other through legal and well-established parliamentary rules.

            I must say, I'm enjoying how you're attempting to paint me as an idealist for wanting my politicians to try to keep their promises. After I provided you with the dates and proof you used to challenge my original claim. Try harder.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Why should I have a problem with Hollinm for pointing out the NDP act like every other political party?

            In your opinion this bloodless coup attempt by the Liberals-NDP propped up the Bloc was legal. I applaud you citing "tradition and rules" as justification.

            The Democrats in the south used the same language and invoked tradition and rules top keep blacks from having equal rights in the US.

            Maybe you can point to in HISTORY of this coup attempt where two defeated political parties propped up by a separatist regional party in QC excluded the party with the most seats and largest popular support from government.

            Ontario or the UK was not similar. (Don't bother)

            I remember how well established parliamentary rules like prorogue were treated differently by the media and Senators are now referred to as unelected today.

          • MostlyCivil

            "In your opinion this bloodless coup attempt by the Liberals-NDP propped up the Bloc was legal."

            It was legal.

            From http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Sites/LOP/AboutParliament/…

            "If a cabinet is defeated in the House of Commons on a motion of censure or want of confidence, the cabinet must either resign (the Governor General will then ask the leader of the Opposition to form a new cabinet) or ask for a dissolution of Parliament and a fresh election."

            You're wrong, and now you're dragging in other countries to muddy the waters. You simply don't understand the law as it applies to the establishment of a government in Canada. Or you do, and you're working very hard to cloud the issue. I've established the facts here. Feel free to continue without me on this one.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            You could not find an example of excluding the party with the most seats. Shocking !

            Your interpretation of the link as 'legal' is a stretch.

            As I said the American Democrats in the south had the law on their side too for segregation. It did not make the law "just".

            Many PET liberals will not forget or forgive the desperate power grab that required the Separatists support and I look forward to the next general election to test my theory.

            The coup was thwarted. Any suggestion that it was legal is unproven.

            The coup attempt failed in gaining public support. It was popular in QC as the Bloc stood to gain effective control of the federal government.

            If and when the coalition includes the party with the most seats, the public will view it differently.

          • McC_

            "You could not find an example of excluding the party with the most seats."
            The current Government in Israel is led by a party (Likud) that won (one) fewer seats in the last election, and excludes the party (Kadima) that won the most seats. But this example is about a split between two right-of-centre parties in a Parliamentary system loosely modeled on Westminster, so there are no parallels whatsoever between it and a seperatist-socialist-coalition-coup in Canada's Westminster-style Parliament.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Israel has a nationwide PR system we don't. The North, East has too many seats vs Ontario, AB and BC. We are a federation that has talked about a PR systems but to my knowledge the 2-3 times it was voted on it failed in Ontario and BC.
            How will those 38 seats affect the balance of power and why is QC so vocal in opposing the extra seats? Central Canada (ON+QC) will still hold 57% of the seats.

          • McC_

            it's no fun playing with you if you keep moving the goal posts. good day.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            You reply was we have no precedent and I agreed.

            I than asked how Canada moving to a national PR system would work because you resolved my question.

            Did I misinterpret your first post?

          • Thwim

            So you're saying that anything a politician promises is meaningless and we should just accept that.

            Hm. Why bother running these silly campaigns and elections then?

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            No,

            I said every political party operates the SAME.

            Voters decide through elections to punish accordingly. Some of us can't accept that voters may not carry the obsession for failing or flip flopping on a specific promise.

            1)LGR
            2)GST
            3) NAFTA
            4)INCOME TRUSTS

            For some voters any of those single issues is enough to not go back to their party.

            I can't speak on behalf of the reason why it takes one issue or many to switch political allegiance.

          • Thwim

            Right.. every political party operates the same, and their promises don't matter. All that matters is the vote totals at the end of the day.

            While true enough in a realpolitik sense, personally, I'd like something a little better.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Are you suggesting a political party given the same conditions would react differently?

            I would be open to Jennifer and Angelina calling me for date too but I gave up the Peter Pan ideology a long time ago.

        • Dave

          Count up all the NDP provincial governments which brought in PR.

          • Orson Bean

            Good point. You sure didn't hear the provincial BC NDP advocating for PR in the 1990s, when Glen Clark got into office despite losing the popular vote to Gordon Campbell's Liberals.

          • briguyhfx

            I am extremely disappointed for the local NDP government in NS for not even making noises about electoral reform, so far. They also got a skewed majority on 45% of the vote. The seat breakdowns after the general election were 31 NDP (61%) / 11 Lib (21%) / 10 PC (19%), while the voting percentages were 45% / 27% / 25% with 2% Green. The people voted for another minority government, just with a different party needing to lead the inevitable compromises.

            Personally, I prefer a preferential ballot system to PR, because I don't see the benefit of party lists, and I do think the basis of government should be local representation. But either system is superior to FPTP, so I'll take whatever we can get, as a country.

          • Thwim

            Percentage Proportional Representation is your answer!

            Votes are held like normal, but total seat allotment is awarded based on total percentage of votes.

            Each party's allotment of seats is then determined by which riding gave their candidate the highest percentage of support.

            Has the result that ridings which really want a particular candidate will get them, ridings which are divided will tend to get a candidate more representative of the total population.

          • McC_

            it's a good model, too. But I still agree that ranking ballot choices is preferable as it is the smallest tweak with the largest potential payoff for increasing the legitimacy of mandates.

      • derek

        The BC NDP opposed the proportional representation referendum a couple of years ago.

        Derek

    • Iccyh

      Here's another thought:
      The only reason why these numbers are an argument for a merger rather than an argument for proportional representation is because Hébert and Wells chose to frame this as a question of what's best for the political parties rather than what's best for the country as a whole.

      Shame on you, pundits.

      • kcm

        That's Coyne's job to advcate for PR – i think i here him coming in now.:)

  • Margaret

    I think maybe Ignatieff has an outdated vision of Canada; he wants to be a Prime Minister in the mould of Trudeau, Pearson, Chretien, Mulroney — but those days are over. I like his ideas a lot, but his main idea seems to be to become Prime Minister with a majority government. It's not going to happen with Layton and Duceppe. He really has been away too long, and the best way he can serve us is to selflessly guide us through to whatever it takes to get rid of Harper. As it is – he's dangling us at the end of a string just out of the cat's reach, and we'll soon be eaten.

    This limbo that we're in, while he tries to get a strong enough party to beat the Conservatives, is just putting Canada into more and more danger. I used to see Layton as being a major contributor to keeping Harper in power, but now I'm beginning to think that Ignatieff is just as big a problem. I'd actually like to have Duceppe as Prime Minister – he's the most honest and pragmatic of the lot.

    • MostlyCivil

      "but his main idea seems to be to become Prime Minister with a majority government"

      He's just borrowing a strategy that seems to work for the other guy.

    • http://twitter.com/jonatwitan @jonatwitan

      :O

      Okay, here's my attempt at a rebuttal, on your own terms of course. The best way that Harper can serve us Canadians right now is to stop all this business about the economy, stop all this worrying about the war, stop all this pontificating about who knows what it is that he pontificates about (no doubt rock songs) and do whatever it takes to get rid of Ignatieff.

      Oh please I hope you see my point. That being said, you may have a point about Ignatieff striving after a majority government just like the ol' days. But, where we diverge is that I don't think his best service to Canada is to "get rid of Harper", but to be a good party leader, make clear and reasonable decisions about important policy issues based on principle and the best information, and articulate a vision for our county that is positive, not based on "we are not like Harper blah blah blah".

      • Margaret

        I agree. Nothing to rebut. It might be really revolutionary if they ALL decided to work together for the good of the country, for we the people. How about cutting their salaries back to the level of England's MPs, for starters? How about they all get together on a daily basis and work out the best plan for Canadians?

        I am seriously fed up and sick of this system of government, and although I came of age in 60s and 70s, I am about to follow the under 25's, and not even bother any more. Voter apathy – I have voted ever since I turned 18 – now I've caught a bad case of apathy flu.

    • http://www.bluelikeyou.com/ Joanne (BLY)

      " I'd actually like to have Duceppe as Prime Minister – he's the most honest and pragmatic of the lot."

      Margaret, I sincerely hope you see the irony of your statement.

      • Margaret

        I know — I just wish we had other choices. And yes I know he's BQ – but couldn't he run candidates in all ridings across Canada? I'm so fed up. I have moved from being worried about what Harper is going to do to Canada to thinking – whatever; we'll just take what is handed to us, as Canadians have been doing ever since they sent us over here from Europe to do the hard work of founding a country – so that the fat cats could move in in comfort and live off our wages.

    • billions

      duceppe as pm – it'll never happen – he doesn't represent anyone outside of quebec & does not have the best interests of Canada as a whole – it would be a disaster for Canadians

  • PolJunkie

    They wouldn't even need to formally merge to win the next election.

    In fact, I would argue against this merger idea because of elements within both parties that will do everything in their power to sabotage such a deal.

    Dion and May had the best logical and easily implementable solution: agree to run the candidate with the best chance to win the riding.

    • Emily

      And then what?

      They'd just squabble once they got to Parliament, and even less would be accomplished.

      • PolJunkie

        Not at all. The goal is to unseat the Tories. The NDP do not have a chance to get in power and they know this. They would be willing to do this if the right concession was offered.

        Both Libs and Dips would increase their seat count with one of them actually forming a government. This is indeed a short-term solution but the end result would be Harper as leader of the Opposition and we all know that he will not last long. With Harper gone, the Tories will themselves go through a leadership review. Meanwhile, the Libs will be given a chance to refurbish their brand and the Dips will be put in an even stronger king-making position. Everyone will want their support.

        Honestly, the Dion-May deal is the best and only feasible way to win the next election.

        • Emily

          No, the goal is to run the country decently, not get into more squabbles.

          • PolJunkie

            I'm sorry… Do you know of a parliamentary system with no "squabbles?" Dealmaking or cooperation is what comes with a minority govt. The country could be run decently regardless.

          • Emily

            Not amongst themselves.

          • PolJunkie

            Yet you are the one arguing for a merger?

          • Emily

            Yes, a merger….into one party….not just two opposing groups working together over lunch temporarily.

            New party, new leader, new policies, new direction

          • PolJunkie

            Talk about dreaming in technicolours. This is the Liberals and the NDP that we are talking about. That will never happen. To even entertain such an idea is to waste precious time and effort.

          • http://dougsamu.wordpress.com dougrogers

            You can't run the country unless you're the governing party.

          • kcm

            Wells' rule # 6…or is it Harpers, i forget?

          • Emily

            No point being the governing party if you can't run the country

          • Thwim

            Would you please inform the CPC of that? They seem to have missed the memo.

        • kcm

          'Honestly, the Dion-May deal is the best and only feasible way to win the next election.'

          The downside of that is it's arguably antidemocratic – you disenfranchise the voters of one or other of the parties…although i can see it has a certain logic, and appeal – if you win. Less messy than a merger or coalition too.

          • Thwim

            It's no more anti-democratic than the party structure to begin with. Is the Bloc anti-democratic because they don't run candidates across the country? Are independant candidate anti-democratic for the same reason? There's nothing that says democracy only exists when a party runs a candidate in every region.

            No, what it is is realpolitik — which is distasteful in its own right, I'll agree, but sometimes the ends are worth the means. Especially if using it means we can get away from Harper and his own regular use of realpolitik through proroguement and perpetual confidence votes.

          • kcm

            I'm anbivalent [ my life's curse] but process matters. In both your examples there is no coercion or intended disenfranchisment of the voter or party member; i'm not sure the same is true with the D/M gambit. You're right though – politics isn't a religion – many sins are committed along the way to power – he who would be sinless is destined to be the loser.

          • PolJunkie

            kcm, I don't agree. The message here is simple. We are two separate parties united by a common goal: removing Harper from power before he does further damage to our country and its institutions.

            Hardcore Libs and Dips won't go for this idea and will probably stay home. Even if they do, the remaining group is still large enough to stop a Tory candidate to take the riding.

            It's all about messaging as far as I am concerned. Rally the anti-Harper vote under one banner ONLY in the ridings where the said vote splits up in a way that would allow the Tory candidate to come up the middle. That's a whole bunch of ridings in BC and Ontario.

            That's not antidemocratic, it is smart campaigning. It would galvanize voters on all sides. I think it would increase voter turnout.

          • kcm

            Hope you've done your math properly. How do you know you wont lose swing voters to Harper with such a strategy?

          • Thwim

            I did a post some time previously where I went through and calculated it for every riding where the difference between the first place CPC and the second place Lib or NDP was less than the votes received by the third place Lib or NDP.

            Under that scenario, if you assumed a full transfer of votes from the third place to the second, Both Liberals and NDP gained seats. The Liberals attained minority status, and the NDP would have enough votes to ensure government motions got passed if they so wished.

            But as you say, the translation probably isn't that perfect. On the flip side, that was basing it off the numbers of the last election, which was a historic low point for the Liberals.

          • derek

            How many middle right liberals would vote conservative? How many NDP'ers would stay home? How many Liberals would stay home?

            In BC recently a 3rd way moderate NDP leader was ousted by the red guard. If Layton leads the NDP into a coalition election, would he have a party following him?

            This would be a tectonic shift in Canadian electoral landscape. Everything would be up for grabs.

            Derek

          • PolJunkie

            Because the target is the anti-Harper vote. The people who unfortunately keep splitting themselves four ways to avoid a Tory govt. Harper is unable get that group and that is why he stays in the low 30s range of support.

            Thing is, Harper doesn't need to expand his 30 some percent to retain power as long as the group in question remains split.

            You do away with the split and Harper is a goner. He knows this. The Libs and the NDP know this. Why no one does a thing about this is a combination of fear and stupidity.

          • Orson Bean

            I can't help but note, though, that your reasoning seems to assume that the sole or main reason that anyone who votes NDP, Liberal, Green or BQ is because they hate Harper. I think that's just a tad reductionist.

          • PolJunkie

            I didn't say they hated Harper, Orson. I don't know why rightwingers constantly feel the need to translate opposition into hatred.

            I said that they are anti-Harpers in that they consistently vote for someone other than Harper. The anti-Harpers travel from the Lib to the Dip to the Greens, depending on the candidates or the leader. That's the group that could be rallied behind one candidate representing both Dip and Lib.

          • Orson Bean

            Ok, my bad for using the word "hate". In any event, though, I still think it's a reductionist fallacy to assume that the sole or primary motivation for everyone who votes BQ, Liberal, NDP or Green is that they see themselves as casting an "anti-Harper" vote. Sure, lots of them feel that way. But voting behaviour is extremely varied and complex. E.g., lots of people vote BQ simply because they see it as a "pro-Quebec" party. Anti-Harper animus plays no role in that. Lots of people in our Westminster system vote for local reasons — they really like their local candidate or really dislike another local candidate. Again, the voter's attitude to Harper plays no role in that voting decision.

          • Orson Bean

            Also, as many people have pointed out on these boards, some Liberal voters loathe the NDP as much as, or even more than, the CPC or Harper, and vice-versa. So again, you can't simply tally up all NDP or Liberal votes as being "anti-Harper" in their motivation — it's misleading in the sense that it suggests that if there were a binary choice put in front of all these people between Harper and Anything But Harper, they would all choose Anything But Harper. Anyone who knows anything about real voting behaviour knows that is not the case.

          • derek

            If they are opposed to Harper, why do they divide their vote?

            Derek

    • HarveyMushman

      Really…using Dion, May and logical all in the same sentence totally blew your credibility:)

      • PolJunkie

        Yeah. I'm sure Harper is betting on the Liberals agreeing with you. He's not likely to lose that bet.

    • http://www.jesserosenberg.com Jesse_Rosenberg

      I think you may not have considered the long term effect. For either party this is electoral suicide in the ridings they pass on this election in the NEXT election, and those following. So a majority (which I suppose makes this more troublesome for the Liberals) perhaps impossible.

      • Thwim

        It's only political suicide if the resulting non-CPC government runs things poorly. In which case they'd be hard pressed to keep the ridings anyway.

  • kcm

    'So. To sum up: outside the Joe Clark blip, you simply don’t get a durable change in power in today’s Canada without a structural realignment of the party system, or a period of political upheaval so drastic as to resemble a structural realignment'

    JG has a good point – perhaps you have to have both at once ; a structural realignment for the left without a scandal/collapse from the right may change nothing – although it would of course change everything, particularly for the left, but would it be competitive or merely a loyal opposition for a new NGP under Harper and his successors?

  • Emily

    ANd once again…a tie.

    OTTAWA – It appears the Conservatives and Liberals are ending the year the same way they started it — in a dead heat.

    A new poll by The Canadian Press Harris-Decima suggests the Tories have the support of 31 per cent of Canadians, statistically tied with the Liberals at 29 per cent.

    That's far from the support levels needed to win a majority.
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingn…

    • kcm

      hollinm, hollinm, where are you? He must have stepped out for a smoke.

      • hollinm

        If you believe Harris Decima then you are being fooled. I would rather, given his track record, rely on Nanos and his polling results. However, as Emily chided us all. Polls go up and down. However, there is one thing evident. The Libs have never been ahead of the Conservatives and to think they will win the next election requires a significant stretch of the imagination.

        • Amateur Hour

          While historically Harris Decima hasn't been the best source, this poll had a large sample size.
          Its results are almost the same as the EKOS poll from 10 days ago.
          Cons are settled in the low 30s. Libs are stuck in the high 20s.
          They both flirt within the margin of error with each other.
          Occasionally the gap widens beyond the margin of error, then closes again.
          Emily's right to point out that not much has changed in terms of voter intentions from 5 years ago.
          But the only poll that matters is the one on election day, and the last weeks of a campaign can see some pretty dramatic swings.
          Paul Martin's minority win comes to mind — who saw that one coming?

    • hollinm

      And not enough for the Liberals to win. So the status quo is maintained.

      • Emily

        It's exactly where it's been for 5 years now.

        It goes up, it goes down….but basically neither party can form a majority, and a minority could go either way.

        No movement.

        • hollinm

          You almost had be agreeing with you until you said a minority could go either way. I don't think so. Where are the Libs going to pick up 40+ seats to win a minority? If you are suggesting a coalition unless the Libs can win more seats than the Conservatives Canadians will not accept a Lib/NDP coalition.

          • Emily

            Yes, depending on the events of the day, a minority could go either way.

            And no, no one is suggesting a coalition beyond the fantasizers in the Con party.

            However, you don't speak for Canadians.

          • Reverend_Blair

            The Liberals don't have to pick up 40+ seats though, the Conservatives have to lose 40 seats. There are seats vulnerable to the NDP and Bloc as well as the Liberals. That leaves an election being able to go either way rather easily.

          • hollinm

            Ok I'll bite show me the regional breakdowns which show the government is not leading and will lose seats to the opposition parties. Either way? I don't think so.
            I know its tough for Liberal supporters these days. They just can't accept the fact their party is going nowhere in a hurry. Polling at 25-29% does not a minority make even in Canada.

  • oppoguy

    "… Jean Chrétien and Ed Broadbent had a point several months ago when they started agitating for a formal merger of those two opposition parties."

    Poppycock! This was another figment of Warren "Bob Rae to Israel" Kinsella's imagination. No serious person, at least no New Democrat, and CERTAINLY not Ed Broadbent, has ever called for, or advocated for such a thing.

    For his part, Mr Broadbent has been been clear on every occasion that the NDP is a social democratic party committed to equality — an incompatable goal for today's Liberals.

    • Emily

      Actually there was far more to it than what you'd like to believe.

      • oppoguy

        No. There wasn't.

        • Emily

          Yes oppoguy, there was. Sulk all you want.

    • PolJunkie

      Yeah? But they were ok with sharing a Cabinet table with them?

      • oppoguy

        There is a difference between working with someone and being married to them.

        • PolJunkie

          Sharing a Cabinet table = marriage. They would all be singing from the same songsheet and all bowing to a Liberal PM.

    • Margaret

      Warren Kinsella was the one who was pushing/agitating for a coalition, as I recall. Now he's just undermining the Liberals it seems.

      • Orson Bean

        If you visit his website, he is still pushing very hard for a coalition. He has problems with Iggy and the OLO for sure, but I think in his heart he still sees himself as Liberal to the core.

  • Dave

    Chantal’s point is that the NDP and the Liberals are cannibalizing each other’s votes in Quebec, to the Bloc’s advantage.

    Except that they're not. The NDP and BQ cannibalize more votes, to the BQ's disadvantage, than the NDP and Liberals do in Quebec.

    • PolJunkie

      Absolutely not true.

      • Dave

        Absolutely true. So there.

    • http://twitter.com/kdrcampbell @kdrcampbell

      i actually stopped short on this point too, both in Wells and Chantal pieces.
      too many articles don't break down Quebec poll results by region!
      I am not necessarily sure if the Bloc benefits. When I look at Mulcair, I see a guy who has won over Mile End anglos who would easily be NDP voters if they were Torontonian. Given how left wing many Montreal anglos and ethnics are, feels more like a straight NDP-Lib fight in those ridings.
      In most ridings without any anglos or allophones, the Liberal brand was pretty toxic anyway and hasn't won many seats since Chretien 2000. Are we sure the hard work of Layton, Mulcair, Godyn hasn't stolen many Bloc votes over the years? Layton's hard work in Quebec is pretty impressive even with so few seats. The vote count feels like it's about to tip into some more seats, much like Tories in the 416…

  • bergkamp

    I don't believe a merger would be successful if it were ever to occur. Liberals and NDP-ers are quite hostile towards one another, there is nothing comparable between any two other groups of supporters.

    Libs and NDP might share similar goals/outlooks but there is much disagreement on how to get there. I know a few hard core NDP supporters – they don't believe in markets – and they would start/vote for new party before they went Liberal.

    Liberals have not won a majority government against a united Con party since Trudeau's time. Liberals need new ideas and policies, not yoke themselves even more with unions and other left wing groups that mainstream Canada does not support.

    Good Herbet column. She's written a few articles over the past month or two that I thought were quite thought provoking.

    • kcm

      Funny, i'm in a union. I don't feel yoked to anyone at all.

      • Orson Bean

        Yes, but most union leaders certainly do. There's a reason why the CLC has officially recognized status within the federal NDP — and why other large, powerful unions have similar status within the provincial NDP parties (e.g., the BC NDP — note Carole James' futile attemp to curtail union dominance of the party).

        • kcm

          My point is i can vote for whoever i choose – union or not. The can't even use my dues anymore to support the NDP.

          • Orson Bean

            That latter part is interesting to hear, re the dues. Because I had thought that the Lavigne vs. OPSEU court decision many years ago meant that unions could use check-off dues for that purpose (i.e., to contribute to political parties).

            Of course I realize that you can vote for whomever you want to.

            But I've always thought that the NDP has been hamstringing itself from a policy perspective by joining itself at the hip to labour unions. Essentially it means the unions have a veto on NDP policy positions. This is why a lot of people in BC will never vote NDP. While there are nice progressive elements within that party, at the end of the day it's a tool of organized labour.

          • kcm

            You ma still be right about the dues, i meant that the unions along with corps can no longer support a federa party

            'This is why a lot of people in BC will never vote NDP'

            It's also why alot of people continue to vote NDP.

            In general i agree, the unions should not hold a veto.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ottawa_Centrist Ottawa_Centrist

    Many people I know consider themselves socially liberal / fiscally conservative which used to be where the Liberals and Progressive Conservatives positioned themselves. Maybe my perceptions have evolved (ohh the naivety of youth), but what is on offer now (outside Quebec) are two socially liberal parties, a socially conservative party and no fiscally conservative parties.

    Until I see Chretien / Martin type dynamic start to evolve in a party, I am voting solely for a balance between local candidates and social issues; parties be damned. A united left might present a socially liberal / fiscally conservative juggernaut one day, but they are still years away from convincing me they can deliver– and therefore not going to be a quick fix for securing my support and I suspect the support of many other people like me.

    And look at what happened to the uniting of the right under the Reformers… everything the Reform Party was about has been bastardized into a caricature of everything they hated about the Liberals. Conservatives emulate everything they rallied against, and I am not convinced a Liberal Democrat party would avoid emulating the worst excesses they hate as well.

    That said, I think a united left is a better idea than a divided left.

    • Mike T.

      I've said it before but I see a drift towards centre right for all the parties, with chances of full-blown lunacy on the CPC front.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ottawa_Centrist Ottawa_Centrist

        Who is drifting centre right, and in what way? None of the parties have a coherent budgetary strategy (focusing on the economy and jobs a la The Men Who Stare at Goats does not count) and all parties are camped on either side of social issues.

        • McC_

          "focusing on the economy and jobs a la The Men Who Stare at Goats does not count"
          Awesome!

      • tobyornotoby
        • Dave

          I sincerely hope that Rob Ford was not your first clue that this is the case.

          • tobyornotoby

            Just reporting it as it comes in Dave …

  • Leo

    Very good observations – Chantal loves the political game and knows her 'stuff'. While we are so busy beating on our current parties, have a look at Belgium – they still do not have a functioning government. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/be…

    • Dave

      Good thing Harper didn't get his wish for Canada to be more Belgian.

  • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

    Fascinating analysis, Mr. Wells.

    First, I wonder how it applies to the current situation in Ontario, where a single tectonic shift has yet to occur. Whatever forces exist that jeopardize McGuinty's rule, they have in fact developed gradually over the course of many years, haven't they? Maybe that's not enough? Or maybe the analysis doesn't apply provincially? Given the lack of party splintering, maybe the latter does apply.

    Second, doesn't 2004 show us that a "tectonic" consolidation of the opposition alone doesn't equate into electoral change? Maybe it's a necessary but not sufficient cause (I hope I have that right)? If that's the case, then some kind of merger on the left won't necessarily succeed, at least not at first. But does it have to occur for eventual success to occur?

    • Tim

      For one thing I wouldn't rule McGuinty out of power yet. My sense is the most likely party split is actually on the right between the old school PC's and the Ontario Landowners Association crowd. I don't think Tim Hudak is as talented of a politician as Harper in keeping thse two groups together. I would also point out McGuinty has been a pretty useful ally to Harper on some big issues such as National Securities regulation, corporate tax cuts and the HST. I wonder how much support the Federal party will actually give their provincial counterparts in the next election.

      • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

        I certainly haven't written McGuinty off, in part because I'm not sure if a "tectonic" shift has occurred. If it is occurring, it's happening very gradually, isn't it?

        What Hudak wants the next ballot question to be: Are Ontarians paying too much for not enough? (I'd argue that, right now, that's what the polls are showing. Yet elections can change this dramatically, of course)

        What McGuinty wants the next ballot question to be: We've made investments, it's not that bad, and do you really want to go back to the Harris years?

        In my opinion, if Hudak is smart, he'll know how to navigate McGuinty's question, then direct voters to his own. Right now, I have no idea how smart he is politically, but at least he doesn't seem to be struggling in opposition. The same hasn't been said of the opposition federally in quite some time.

        • Tim

          I am actually going to make another post on Harper's role in the HST and a National Securities Regulator some of which will touch on Hudak and McGuinty. Hudak has the advantage of being much more "exciting" from the standpoint of the media than either the more cerebral McGuinty or Harper. On otherhand Stockwell Day was at one time seen as a more "exciting" "populist" candidate that would finally end Jean Chretien's reign as PM and look how that went.

          Right now Hudak needs to win a lot of seats in places such as SW Ontario, the North, Toronto, and Ottawa where he has less than Harris even did in 1995. At the same time the Federal Conservatives are going to be sucking up much of the supply of "star candidates" in the same areas. I also suspect McGuinty and Rob Ford might find it in their interest to work together just as Harper and McGuinty have tended to work together on policies such as the HST and securities regulation. At the end of the day I think Hudak has to show there is some steak underneath the sizzle.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            I actually don't think anyone even knows who Hudak is, let alone finds him exciting. The other stuff you talked about is more "inside baseball" stuff that I don't think matters two bits to Ontario voters.

          • Tim

            Hudak is exciting to the various columnists at right leaning publications such as the National Post and Toronto Sun like Christina Blizzard and Tasha Kheirrriden both of which are somewhat tired of Harper's free spending ways. Having said that I agree he is not THAT well known among Ontario voters.

            I wouln't put past McGuinty to make election question next fall something completely unexpected such as religous school funding. Despite McGuinty's personal connections to the publically funded Catholic school system I think the time might be right for McGuinty to call for a referendum on whether to keep the seperate public funded catholic school system which given the reaction during the last election to religous school funding could very well be a popular position.

          • Tim

            The broader comment I'll make going back to Harper that is a little bit of inside baseball is despite having to govern with just a minority governement Harper has made quite a bit of progress on some pretty politically perilous files such as Sales Tax Harmonization, National Securities Regulator and the really inside baseball topic of getting Ontario to allow the federal govt to collect its corporate income tax a reversal of policy by the provincial govt going to back to the 1940s. All of these files which have been on desk of Harper's predicessors dating back to Trudeau essentially gathered dust until Harper came along. All of these issues divide the three opposition parties yet Harper has been able to manage the divisions that would seem to come up within his own party. Many provincial conservatives in different provinces do oppose the HST and a National Securities Regulator so it will be interesting how much this opposition will eventually have in the end.

            I guess an interesting question would be whether a Hudak govt would go against their federal counterparts and oppose a National Securities Regulator and the HST and if Hudak was to turn on Harper to what extent would Harper pull back the Federal Conservative campaign machinery from Hudak.

          • Orson Bean

            Hudak would alienate Bay Street (and the entire Toronto business and financial establishment) big-time if he opposed a National Securities regulator. I can't for the life of me see the upside for him either.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Yes, very inside baseball.

            I doubt the HST will hurt Hudak since it's not his policy, and there's not much he can do about it other than to cut it.

            Voters don't care about a National Security Regulator either.

            Again, I think the election will revolve around what I've already stated, which is a debate between those who think it's become too expensive for Ontario taxpayers, versus those who think it's better than the Harris years.

            Ultimately, elections aren't that complicated.

          • Tim

            I only bring up both the HST and a National Securities Regulator as issues that Wells has frequently pointed out Harper does his hardest playing when the ref isn't looking. Both are fairly micro targeted to elements of the business community and Bay Street that have historically supported the Liberals other than in some of the Mulroney years. Harper is able to show to these constituencies that he is doing things favorable to them that previous governments have been unable to do. At the same time he has avoided getting into a big fight with some of his own traditional supporters that oppose both.

          • Tim

            BC politics seems to be the real battleground for both. I agree Hudak won't be able to get rid of the HST however if BC does Hudak is going to have some explaining to do to some of his more right wing supporters and MPPs. I happen to believe that some of the people who have taken over the BC Conservatives such as Randy White and John Cummins essentially keeping Vander Zalm's people out and instituting a pro HST policy plank are working on Harper's behalf. I also find it interesting that Harper forced Ken Boesenkool off Christy Clark's campaign after she starting taking an anti HST policy stance yet Conservative Senators such as Richard Neufeld are free to support Kevin Falcon.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            Well, I think you're reaching again. Making a referendum on the Catholic school system an election issue would be politically toxic and obviously desperate. McGuinty's entire political raison d'etre is the establishment of political peace after the Harris years, which he would throw away in one quick swoop by doing what you're suggesting.

        • http://twitter.com/kdrcampbell @kdrcampbell

          isn't a tectonic shift gradual by definition? except when there's an earthquake? also, tectonic shifts can't reverse themselves, they only go in one direction.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            isn't a tectonic shift gradual by definition? except when there's an earthquake?

            Your second question answered the first, didn't it?

            also, tectonic shifts can't reverse themselves, they only go in one direction.

            I don't think I suggested otherwise. I was just wondering if one was underway politically in Ontario.

          • http://twitter.com/kdrcampbell @kdrcampbell

            I must be getting too deadpan for my own good. Was posting some snark about the whole concept of tectonic shifting as used by Wells and everyone else on the page, not you specifically. Tectonic is a bad modifier.

          • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

            I don't think it's a bad modifier. I think it's a good metaphor.

  • filturk

    The next election will result in the status quo, as there are just too many deeply-rooted anti-Harper forces in the electorate which will indefinitely prevent a Harper majority from ever becoming a reality.

  • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

    In 2006 Liberals decided Dion and the Green Shift would be successful. In December 2008 they put Ignatieff in charge of fixing and preparing the party for the next general election.

    The Liberal party is not connecting by growing their base in making donations or showing up to help volunteer in key by elections.

    Key groups that voted for the Liberals in 1993 are no longer voting Liberal.

    2000 last Liberal majority (100 ON+36 QC Central Canada @ 48.3% pop) provided the last gasp of Liberalism in Canada. 2008 ( 52 ON+QC @ 29.7%)

    The NDP were at 8.5% and Green were at 0.5% nationally in 2000. The Liberal brand and message has been failing ever since for other parties.

    The height of the Bloc was 1993 were at 13.5% @ 51 seats, now 2008 10% 49 seats.

    The West gets blamed but it has been Ontario and Quebec that have actively dumped the Liberals.

    • Emily

      LOL he says while blaming someone else.

      • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

        Really?

        Voters, donors, grassroots not helping are not to blame for dumping Liberals?

        You think it is G.W.B. right?

    • Orson Bean

      Which reminds me of that column Lawrence Martin wrote 2-3 weeks ago in the Globe. He pointed out that the Liberal dominance of Ontario which took hold in the 1993 election was a mile wide and and an inch deep. It papered over the fact that, e.g., in many of those Ontario ridings, the combined Tory-Reform vote was quite strong and often exceeded the Liberal vote. Once the Tories and Reformers merged, that Ontario dominance was toast.

      • http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

        There was a time when "unite-the-right" was not seen as the solution to ending Liberal dominance because — well, not seen as a solution by liberal and red Tory types anyhow — it would lead to bleeding support from the left and the right.

        However, one need only to look at the first election after merger, which was 2004, to see how, even with the bleeding, Conservatives pick up around 20 seats in Ontario without a second thought. They do the same provincially, too.

        So, there might actually be some wisdom in the idea that the left will have to merge to become dominant in this country again. However, I don't think either the Liberals or NDP see themselves as hitting rock bottom yet. Until that happens, maybe after the next election, I don't think we'll see even a hint of any kind of electoral cooperation from them.

      • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

        Exactly. The West dumped PET in the 70's for Stanfield. They dumped the PC's for Reform in the 80's. The Liberals are not a national political force anymore and the media is unable to accept the shift and resurgence of other political parties.

        Did J.C. make a strategic error by reducing the big Bay Street and Union funds in going after the NDP unilaterally in 2003-2004?

        Did the Liberals envision falling below 30% in pop?

        Did the Liberals anticipate the CPC would be able to further restrict special interest financing in 2006?

        • Dave

          Considering that "the West" never much endorsed Trudeau to begin with, it's not entirely honest to say that "the West" dumped him, is it?

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            I would have you look at the 1965 vs 1968 General Election Pearson-Diefenbaker replaced by PET and Stanfield results in popular support and seats.

            BC 7 seats , AB 0 , MB 1, SK 0 seats total with 22 – 31% pop highest in MB. 1965

            PET "just society" campaign vs PC (Stanfield)

            BC 16 seats , AB 4 , MB 5, SK 2 seats total with 27.5 – 41.8% pop highest in BC. 1968

            The West did "buy in" for the PET "just society" rhetoric. I have compared it to OBAMA. Liberals won 154 and had one Liberal-Labour independent for 155.

            ON went up from 56 to 63 QC remained at 56. The North Atlantic in 1965 vs1968 gave back half the seats during PET first campaign.

            So the WEST ON did consume the PET kool-aid by popular vote and seat shift in 1968.

            The Lewis 72 decision to prop up PET vs Stanfield in (my opinion) was a political mistake and gave PET a 2nd life to his next majority.

            I did a comparison without examining the infighting in the PC camp (Diefenbaker vs Stanfield leading up to1968.
            http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/2010/05/trudeau…

          • Orson Bean

            Under Trudeau in 1968, they even elected a Liberal MP in Calgary South, Pat Mahoney. That is huge, as Calgary south is about as congenitally conservative a riding as you can imagine (extremely pro-oil patch, fiscally conservative and full of oil patch professionals and executives). But by 1972, after 4 years of actually seeing Trudeau in action, that was over. That riding, and its successors, has been PC/Reform/CPC by huge margins ever since.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Thank you for the insight. PET was successful by increasing popular support out West to the Big Liberal tent in his first run.

            It is a mistake to suggest the right did not have similar problems of infighting prior to the split with Mulroney.

            I suspect our PM is aware of the history and mechanics of political parties including how to make Parliament works.

            The CPC should be careful to not drift too much to the centre in trying to appease QC through an arena, HST etc.

        • Thwim

          J.C. made no error whatsoever. He did exactly what he planned to do, saddle Martin with an unsustainable Liberal party.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            Stephen Le Drew and Paul Martin share your view did not want to give his successor any opportunity for a legacy.

            The changes were done nearly six years ago, the CPC have been able to grow with small regular donations. Why are the Liberals unable to find an equal number of small donors if they represent the majority?

            Are Liberals and Bay Street inseparable?

          • Thwim

            One could similarly ask if CPC and Evangelists are inseperable, and it'd mean about as much.

            That said, nobody's claimed the Liberals represent the majority, so you can stop building that straw man right now. As for why they still lag in fund-raising? Perhaps it's because they don't rely on fear-mongering for their fund-raising as much. I know I"ve received no less than 4 mailers from my local CPC MP over the last two weeks, each of which pointing out how if the CPC doesn't get more donations, there will be an evil coalition government that will intentionally take steps to make Canadians miserable. I'm surprised they don't have Ignatieff pictured with a white cat on his lap in an egg chair, for goodness sakes.

          • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

            I am not sure where you get your "facts" from but a non partisan study partly funded by Elections Canada showed the "evangelists" were in the camp of the Liberals until most recently.

            They broke for the NDP in 2003 and are as likely to vote for the CPC in 2004-2008.

            If you sign up for each party I imagine you would get an equal amount of funding requests based on fear mongering.

            I remember getting one for H1N1 exploitation re body bags from Liberals and same with Gun Registry talking about Montreal tragedy.

            The coalition is not "evil" just deeply flawed if it excludes the party with the most seats. No one can find a case in a western democracy of smaller parties lining up with a separatist party to steal power. I have asked and no examples have been provided after two years. Best of luck finding a similar event.

            I have praised Ignatieff for his speeches before joining the Liberal Party. He praised Americans and British for stopping genocide and helping end the Cold War.

            Today like most politicians on the wrong side of history they Liberal-wash the real threat to democracy and the flaws of collectivism.

            According the expenses the CPC are not out of line in comparison with other parties regarding mailers. In those mailers was other information including updates and holiday wishes included?

            Ignatieff has been very effective in undermining the Liberal brand. They threw Dion under the bus for failing to win the General Election, fix the balance sheet and lose safe seats in by elections. They gave him two years.

            Ignatieff has been leader since December 2008. If I was him I would looking over my shoulder for a John Turner letter in the next few months signed by 10-22 MPs.

    • Dave

      The West gets "blamed" by whom?

      • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

        Are you asking me to cite political strategists, campaigns from the Liberals, NDP and Bloc who suggest to attack, ignore the West?

        The West includes the "Oil Sands".

      • derek

        Can you think of an election where, seeing Ontario trending away from the Liberals, they don't pull out a bash the west strategy at the last moment?

        I can't.

        The Liberals are not a national party.

        Derek

  • partisan

    There are many reasons why a Liberal/NDP bloc would be problematic. But I'd like to challenge Wells' main assumption: that major structural changes (like party mergers or splits) or particularly busy and traumatic years cause parties to lose power. A key problem is that the Conservatives would have lost the 1993 election even if the Bloc and Reform had never come into existence. Five months after the 1988 election they were already a point behind the Liberals in April 1989. By the end of the year they year they were at 22%, and by next April they were at 16%. Nor can all this decline be considered the result of the country's constitutional turmoil. (And one reason why constiutional change was so difficult was because so many people disliked Mulroney in the first place). If we leave aside the five elections from 1993 to 2006 because parties were split or getting back together again, we have 2008, where one party had a clear monetary and media advantage, 1988, where much the same thing, 1979 and 1980, where the governments were defeated, 1974, where a minority became a majority, and 1972 where a strong majority nearly lost power.

    • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

      You mean when NDP Lewis gave PET a second life against Stanfield and paid for it in 74 by losing his seat?

      Will Jack repeat the mistake of Lewis and Broadbent by aligning themselves with the Liberals?

      The political job of the NDP is to replace the Liberals as a Federal alternative in forming a National government. Look at the political map the NDP are beyond Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal Island.

      The EAST is over represented in seats with PEI (4) should be only 1. Same with NFLD, NB, NS.

      Why do you think Liberals are blocking Democratic Reform with Ontario, BC and AB?

      Ontario-QC will still retain 57% of the seats in the 338. Do they know at 52 seats, Rob Ford, Julian Fantino the time of Ontario being "Red" is over?

      Is it possible those Liberal Premiers are anchors to the Federal Liberals? Campbell, McGuinty an Charest won't be much help on the campaign. The one term NB Liberals first time in history.

      Will Larry Smith enter the race and do a "smash and grab" as Nik Nanos refers to CPC pick ups on Montreal Island?

      With D.W. ABC gone, what is the rallying cry for the Liberals? Another youtube moment at Cherry Hill park?

      • derek

        The NDP campaigned against electoral reform in BC.

        Derek

        • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

          Every party acts the same – self-interest. The reform would have meant a loss of seats for them so it was not a priority. The Federal NDP recognize it would help.
          The Bloc stand to lose seats and would not support it.

  • HarveyMushman

    All these "unite the left" ideas conveniently forget that a good chunk of Liberal MP's and Liberal voters would likely jump to the Conservatives…with whom they would have much more in common with than the NDP.

    The real merger that would (if formed) rule the country unchallenged for the foreseeable future…would come from a Con/Lib merger. Think about it. They are probably a lot closer in policy than the Liberal/NDP are…and politicians and political parties general put themselves first. Can you imagine the impetus ruling Canada virtually unchallenged for the next decade or so would be for these guys to get together?

    • Holly Stick

      That's what we have right now – an evul Con/Lib coalition.

  • Leo

    Liberals 'chipping' away at the Conservatives again, lol – from G&M today

    Twas the night before Christmas and all through the House

    No spin could be heard, not a rant, not a grouse.

    The doors had been locked, no lightbulbs were burning.

    In the hopes that this might stop John Baird from returning.

    The MPs were nestled as snug as could be

    And having their best sleep since last week’s QP.

    When out on the Hill came a noise loud and scary

    Like a thunderstorm clap or a speech by Don Cherry.

    Police and Saint Nicholas were deep in discussion.

    Seems Peter MacKay mistook Santa for Russians.

    “The CF-18s – send them up,” he decreed.

    And that’s how eight tiny reindeer became three.

    Saint Nick tried explaining the Christmas occasion

    But to Vic Toews it sounded more like home invasion.

    Fantino frisked Santa in case he was packing

    Tom Flanagan eagerly called for his whacking.

  • Leo

    con't ……

    All the kids were in tears, all the towns were displeased

    No presents were found under Canada’s trees

    When what to our wondering eyes should appear

    But the PM in the sleigh he just commandeered.

    He spoke not a word – but ran ads on all stations

    That a phony coalition would be our damnation.

    He had make-up and hair that were expensively styled

    And he called out ‘Majority” just to make himself smile.

    Our deficit, he warned, grows larger each day

    But these toys will sure help when they’re sold on eBay

    We’ll cut corporate taxes – for the rich more to make

    And have a jolly old laugh down by my fake lake.

    But the children turned angry and turned angry quick

    So Harper gave each kid a G20 glow stick.

    When that didn’t work he sprang to his sleigh

    And flew off in great haste to prorogue Christmas Day

From Macleans