Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

The enduring challenge of the opposition leader

by Aaron Wherry on Monday, January 3, 2011 3:02pm - 124 Comments

Bruce Anderson sees little political advantage to be found for Michael Ignatieff in the economy.

To move the polls, the Liberal leader needs to be more viscerally connected to both the deepest frustrations and the most stirring aspirations of a broad middle class. As simple as it seems to make a “we should be doing better” case, it is increasingly falling on “we could be doing worse” ears.

To create desperately needed forward momentum, Mr. Ignatieff needs to hammer away at other, weaker flanks of the Harper Conservatives. And, because that alone may not be enough, he needs to convince Canadians to help him achieve something bigger and more inspiring than the agenda they have been seeing from the Conservatives.

In case you didn’t notice and thus neglected to buy him a present, Mr. Ignatieff officially surpassed Stephane Dion in tenure as leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition last month. He has now served 755 days (just more than two years) in the thankless job.

For the sake of comparison, Stephen Harper spent 1,286 days (three and a half years) as opposition leader before becoming prime minister, while Jean Chretien served 1,039 days (a little more than two years and ten months). Wilfrid Laurier and Robert Borden went more than nine and ten years respectively before becoming prime minister. Robert Stanfield spent nine years on the other side of the House without ever winning the top spot.

Tags: Bruce Anderson, economy, leader of the opposition, Michael Ignatieff, opposition, Robert Borden, Robert Stanfield, Stéphane Dion, Wilfrid Laurier

More by Aaron Wherry

Crit_Reasoning

I'm one of the ones who didn't notice and thus neglected to buy Ignatieff a present or even a card. Better late than never, though, so here goes:

Dear Michael,
Congratulations on surpassing Stephane Dion's tenure as Opposition Leader. By passing this important milestone, you've ensured that whatever happens, you'll never be considered the least successful leader in the history of the Liberal Party. That honour will be reserved for Mr. Dion.

PS: Someday, you'll look back on all this and laugh!

Cats

His only shot is to hope Harper doesn't win a majority so that he can form a coalition.

I laugh so hard at people who claim he'll lose and then just go home to Harvard and not bother with a coalition.

Really ? All that work for nothing ?

Get Real! Only two choices = Coalition or Harper Majority.

Two choices Cats!

Blues Clair

"PS: Someday, you'll look back on all this and laugh!"

Oh I don't know Crit_, according Fantino, running for public office in Canada is quite "unpleasant".

Gayle

Yes. Not at all unlike genocide apparently.

Now I know why they were hiding him.

Cats

Oh lol you're willfully distorting what he said!

How cute!

(Or are you just daft ? Do you really not understand the reference he made to propaganda ?)

Just wondering Cats ?
Gayle

I am directly addressing what he said. You are the one adding your own spin. Frankly, even if he was willfully blind to the fact that genocide occurred along with all that propaganda, it was a profoundly stupid statement. The liberal campaign could not even be remotely compared to Nazi propaganda, and the only political party in this country that applies the big lie theory is the one he ran for.
Cats

He was referencing a specific propaganda technique.

Such a reference has nothing to do with WW2, with HItler, with genocide, with anything at all other than the notion of people making stuff up and repeating it.

Gayle stop being silly.

You're honestly suggesting Julian Fantino is somehow pro-Nazi ???

Get a grip.

Cats away. Silly season over here.
Jan

Fantino is painting himself as the vitcim – i.e. the Jews. Does everything have to be explained to you?

hollinm

You and I are on the same page. It will be a majority or the coalition. Those will be the choices. The Libs know this is there only ticket back to power in the near term.
However, while a coalition may be legal Canadians like the last time will not accept a coalition of the losers. Of course people will remind me of the experience in the U.K. The fact is the party that won the most seats is part of the coalition.
If the Libs do not win more seats than the Conservatives that means they will need to rely on the Bloc for support to achieve a majority government and without winning more seats Canadians will see the coalition as illegitimate regardless of its legality consitutionally speaking.
The Bloc being needed as part of the coalition formally or informally will be affront to the majority of Canadians living outside of Quebec.
So Harper will have a powerful argument during the next election. What will the opposition do when asked? They will obfuscate, deny or outright lie about their position on the coalition. They lied the last time and they will lie again.

Emily

GG will. So Harp has nothing to say about it.

hollinm

You forget Johnston is not an ex CBC employee. He understands the consequences of a coalition of losers which includes the Bloc who want to break up the country. If it should come about he will make the right decision that is in the best interest of the country.
Having a moribund Liberal party with a leader who is not liked or respected by the Canadian people, a socialist who can't wait to get his hands on the Canadian treasury and of course a party who wants to see dysfunction in the federation so he can achieve his aims is and will not be a recipe for good governance..
Its hard enough having one party governing without three.
Emily

GG is already on record about supporting coalitions as perfectly legitimate….sorry.
hollinm

Of couse he supports the idea of a coalition. It is perfectly legal but there are limits to which a coalition is good for the country. Re-read my post.
Did anybody ask him if he thought it appropriate to have a party that is determined to break up the country as part of that coalition?
Did anybody ask him what he would do if the Conservatives win more seats than the Liberals and then the Libs, NDP and Bloc decide they want to defeat the party that won the most seats.
Typical of you Emily. You take a general comment and disingenuously twist it into support for your side.
Emily

Legal and legit….so the rest of it is Con hogwash, just like I said before.

PS…the Bloc was not part of the coalition.

PPS…I don't have a 'side'. Pay attention.
Trudeau lover

PS… the Bloc was not part of the coalition… and unicorns are not only real, they can fly… and speak french. C'mon, of course the Separatist Bloc was part of the coalition, and they'll be part of the next "Liberal"/ Bloc/NDP coalition too.
Emily

No dear, it wasn't. And there is no coalition.

But I'm not surprised you believe in unicorns.
Cats

Lol i love how you claim there is no coalition in one breath.

And then with the next boast about how legal and wonderful and perfect and inevitable your coalition is.

Make up your mind Cats! Stop living in la la land and trying to have it both ways Cats !
Emily

I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope it doesn't require reading comprehension.
Jan

Hey, TL, Harper, in his fight against the dreaded coalition is pumping money into Quebec. Duceppe is laughing all the way to the new arena
hollinm

Don't try to convince Emily. She lives in another universe.
I don't know what the photo op was of the three stooges if the Bloc was not part of the coalition. They needed the Bloc to do anything. Otherwise they would have been beaten on every vote by the Conservatives. To deny reality is trying to rewrite history which Emily is great at.
hollinm

Oh you do have a side Emily and we know what side that is don't we?
You must have had a real bad experience with the Reform Party if you are so bitter.
Emily

No, sorry, I don't have a 'side'. I don't like any of the parties.

And the coalition was between Dion and the NDP….the Bloc simply agreed to support it.

The question is always 'do you have the confidence of the house'…and Dion's coalition did.
Jenn_

You make it sound like the ex CBC employee made the wrong decision. And I know you don't believe that.
hollinm

I was replying to Emily who must be paid to sit on this board and respond to anything and everything.
Of course the GG made the right decision. However, my point was that Ms. Jean for all her attributes was very inexperienced with her sole claim to fame having worked for the CBC.
Mr. Johnston on the other hand is a man of accomplishment, a lawyer and somewhat of a constitutional expert. I have confidence that with his experience, intellect and profound respect for the country and its institutions that he would make the decision that is in the best interest of the country.
That's what this is all about. Ensuring that the election is seen to be fair and that whatever the outcome the country will be better off for it.
Jenn_

I thought you guys didn't like elitists? :)

Johnston is practically one of my own (Waterloo, City of) and although I never met him personally, I know lots who have. He'll be great. That said, I think you are being extremely unfair to a woman who, while inexperienced in the political arena, carried herself and carried out her duties beautifully and beyond reproach. And yet, you still reproach, particularly grievous when she embodies the 'common' citizen meme.
Emily

Well there are elitists, and there are elitists apparently….and Johnston is okay for now.

One wrong move ….like the word 'no'…to Stevie and he'll be pond scum though. LOL
hollinm

I did not malign Ms. Jean if you read my post accurately However, to compare her experience before taking the job with Johnston there is no comparison. He is much more qualified to be GG than Ms. Jean was at the time of her appointment. Having said that she did well after a rather rocky start i.e. seperation accusations by the Bloc.
Jenn_

Well, perhaps we have a different view of the qualifications of GG. For myself, the beauty of the role is that it encompases boring legal aspects, stilted regal aspects, and personality and passions–or at least interests–in specific subjects or areas of concern. With Ms. Jean, we had a GG focussed on the last of the three parts. With Johnston, we will have one focussed on the first of the three parts. Johnston will also have to do the personality and interests (he's staked out education, I understand) as Jean did the legal end. I'm not sure you can say one of the three roles is more important than the others. At least I can't. So Johnston won't be as good a GG when it comes to personality. But that's the very thing that's wonderful! We get GGs who are completely different people. It isn't like the stereotypical car salesman, accountant, etc. type gig. Keeps things fresh, IMO.
YYZ

I presume his job is to make the legally correct decision vs. the one that is in the best interests of the country.
Emily

There is no vs here. They are one and the same.
Be_rad

Striclty speaking, our statement is debateable. The "best interests of the country" is a pretty subjective test. If you are from the CPC, your perception may be different from soemone from the Liberal party, for obvious self interest reasons. It would also be valid for people from different regions, cultural backgrounds, economic philosophies, genders, etc… to have a different take on what consitutes the "best interests", since base assumptions are going to be different. A legally correct decision means it conforms to the explicit text and related conventions understood to apply.
hollinm

Would that everything be as black and white as you intimate.
Be_rad

Inflated claims of expertise are common in public life and often attributed to individuals without their agreement in order to make their words or actions more weighty. I quick review of our current GG's principal works imply a very real expertise in business, securities, high technology and company law, but not in constitutional law. I have no doubt he has the intellectual capacity and the legal expertise and background necessary to deal with the many potential challenges he faces. I just don't think you should hang a shingle on him even he would no doubt be reluctant to claim.
Jan

Johnston is not a constitutional expert. Could you at least attempt to keep it accurate?
hollinm

Read it again. I said somewhat of a constitutional expert. He has studied the constitution and I would suspect much more than Michaele Jean did before she became GG.
Jan

He's not any kind of a constitututional expert, he said so himself. Stop the b.s.ing.
hollinm

He was being modest. He was the dean of law and a lawyer. At some point I am sure he has studied the constitution. Quit getting hung up on whether he can or cannot understand the constitution. He is better qualified than many previous GG's.
Be_rad

Are you OK with the GG – of any stripe – making a judgement call on the desirability of a coalition's political complexion? Really?
hollinm

No…that would be imprudent but I was responding to Emily who suggested he already thinks a coalition if fine. That misrepresents his position. He was simply commenting that under our constitution a coalition is a legitimate entity. However, as we know from previous experience it is much more complicated than that.

A_logician

I didn't know cats drank Kool-Aid.

Cats

Yup OK, Ignatieff wasted two years as Liberal leader and he's just going to quit and go home ?

Give me a break. Nobody in their right mind would pass at a chance to be PM by whatever means necessary.

Obviously Cats! Basic human nature DEMANDS a coalition.

Emily

He could have been PM with the coalition. He turned it down.
hollinm

Another lie Emily. Dion was leader at the time of the coalition. Ignatieff, Rae and LeBlanc held a press conference supporting Dion as PM under the coalition. Do you think once Dion was PM the party would have turfed him in favour of Ignatieff. Not on your life. Neither would he voluntarily resign.

Neil from Calgary

Laurier was 54 years old when he was sworn into office, Chretien was 55 for his, Borden was 57 for his. If Wherry is suggesting that Ignatieff shouldn't be counted out just yet because it's still early in his tenure as Opposition Leader, he should recognize that with each passing parliamentary session Ignatieff inches closer to starting his media scrums with, "you know, back in my day…"

Emily

You won't get anywhere with the age question. Churchill was 66 and Reagan was 70 when they became national leaders.

Neil from Calgary

Indeed. You don't get anywhere by comparing great public speakers with great writers. Politicians win elections on the stump, not on the back pages of the Globe.

Emily

They don't win them either place….but the point was, their age has nothing to do with it.

hollinm

Hello Emily….we are talking about Canadian Prime Ministers. Just so you know.

The fact is Ignatieff is getting long in the tooth and the longer Harper remains in power the older he gets. So if Harper wins his majority how old will ignatieff be in four years. At least 70 years of age. Time to retire Ignatieff and go back to Harvard as a Professor Emeritus while the going is still good.

Emily

And I repeat…age has nothing to do with it.

Mike T.

Objectively, an untried Liberal candidate should be a better choice than Stephen Harper. So it would appear that in addition to the issues mentioned above, Iggy must find an additional pool of voters not amenable to common sense.

Mike T.

(before anyone makes the obvious reply – if they had common sense, they'd be voting for him already).
hollinm

Of course it is the stupid Canadians who just don't understand what a wonderful gift the Liberal party wants to give Canada….Ignatieff as PM (sarcasm intended). So get rid of Ignatieff and bring in an untried Liberal candidate to see if he can beat Harper. Mike T. you get more delusional everyday in your attempts to support the Liberal party.

Mike T.

To give you more attention than you deserve, I don't think Iggy's a great gift, I do think he's unlikely to be as bad as harper.

hollinm

Well, you will never get to find out because I would be mighty surprised if Ignatieff every becomes PM.

Emily

After every election we've ever held there are a lot of surprised people

A_logician

That's a very low standard.

Mike T.

Agreed.

cooper

I think he would be a good PM for Canada, less humilating, less divisive more inclusive. Anybody but Harper, please. II am sick of amateur hour.

chet

Dear Liberal Party,

I suggest you ignore all of those naysayers who think the party should embrace democratic principles in actually electing a leader by a vote, rather than by annointment of the Liberal elite.

As we all know, liberal elites (and their supporters in the Liberal media elite like the Toronto Star) know much better what is best for us than the common person.

Keep doing what you're doing, and I'm sure you'll break out of the downtown Toronto area, past the praries and into the burgeoning West.

All that talk about the West and Quebec being opposed to the Liberal party being run by a cabal of Toronto insiders is all hocus pokus, mumbo jumbo "conbot" speak. Canadians love their leaders hand selected by a small group of elites.

Iggy's our man!

Emily

Nice of you to admit it's none of your business. Keep it up.

chet

Oh, one more thing.

The move to not only annoint a leader, but one who lived in America and self identified as an American for much of his adult life, just prior to being annointed was a very politically astute move.

I

Emily

There is always 'one more thing' with you chet.

Perhaps you should talk to your doctor about the scatterbrain syndrome you seem to have

PS…Iggy was in the US for 5 years. Add 'exaggeration, hyperbole and hokum' to your list for the doctor
Richard_S_Argent

Five years = "much of his adult life"?

You can't even get your talking points right anymore chiff, you're slipping.

Gayle

A few years ago he was claiming that he had secret knowledge that a number of high profile LPC MP's were going to jump ship and join the CPC. He simply makes stuff up. There is no point taking him seriously about anything.

chet

Yes, we should be precise shouldn't we.

He left Canada (after already "travelling extensively" previously) and moved to the UK in 1978 (just think of how many Liberal followers there are who weren't even born yet when Iggy decided to leave Canada…but I digress). Went to Haaavad (that's my Thirsten Howell the Third accent), in 2000.

So while he left Canada over thirty years ago, it WAS a meagre six years of living in the U.S. (heck we've all taken vacations to the US for….cough, cough…six years – a mere blip).

Remarkable how quickly he self described himself as an American, isn't it? Scramed out of Canada back when disco was the thing (not the retro thing, but the first time around…), spent decades in the UK and then in the US for years where he descibed himself as one of them.

I'm glad we've had this opportunity to clarify Iggy's residence since his departure from Canada, back when ABBA was the fresh new group.

Emily

There are 2.7 million Canadians working and living abroad right now chet….the 11th province.

And they are just as Canadian as you are, so give it a rest.

chet

I know many Canadians who've spent some time in the US. I've known some to live there for a year or two and then come back.

The only person I know of, who left Canada back in the disco era and come back is Iggy.

And we're not just talking about an academic discussion as to whether he's a "Canadian" by definition. But whether someone who's chosen to not even live in the Country he seeks to lead, for decade after decade, is a suitable candidate.

When the liberal "commoners" were given a chance to vote, they apparantly decided he wasn't qualified enough to lead. But I guess the small cabal of Liberal elites know better.

Emily

Then you have very limited connections chet.

Iggy was back and forth a lot over the years, same way as all the other ones do…as kids, as adults.

Dion won in a convention…Iggy won by acclamation…either way, each of them won. Not that it's any of a Con's business anyway…..
Jan

Nigel Wright better come up with some new talking points, before the Cons bore us to death.
Emily

LOL I don't know why this is suddenly an item again….lack of memos over the holidays??
Jan

I love the disco/Abba cracks – meanwhile Harper is doing Neil Diamond covers. I assume this is chettle freelancing, because I don't think going there is a good idea.
Emily

They must feel so lost when the flow of talking points gets cut off. Imagine having to rummage through the garbage pail for stuff that's 2 years old.

Of course that says a lot about their housecleaning too. LOL

Trudeau lover

Well, I think we can all agree that Igg was the wrong self described American to insert as leader of the "Liberal" party by the party elite. Although I can"t believe that Mo Strongs nephew, Boob Ray will be much better… Maybe it's time to insert Trudeaus vacuous, empty headed kid… I hear he can grow a mustache… and his dad was a real A-hole.

Richard_S_Argent

"Maybe it's time to insert Trudeaus vacuous, empty headed kid… I hear he can grow a mustache… and his dad was a real A-hole."

Strange words coming from someone who claims to love the man.

Emily

Well in our present economic circumstances Ignatieff doesn't have to do anything more than wait it out…with just enough playing defence to prevent Harper from getting a majority.
hollinm

Once again…wishful thinking Emily. You note who wrote the story how our economy is not performing that well. It was the economist for the auto union. Yeap! Lots of credibilty there.
You are right Ignatieff can wait like you for something to happen but its a waste of time. Canadians do not want him as PM. Thats the bottom line.
Emily

Is there some reason you've confused internal party rules with national election rules?
Emily

Our economy isn't doing that well, and neither is anyone elses. I didn't read the item you're referring to, I read global financial news.

Canadians don't want Harper either…that's evident in both elections and polls.
Richard_S_Argent

Actually, why would that economist's position with an auto union affect his credibility?

If anything, it would be in his best interest to say how amazing the Canadian economy is doing. That it's so fabulously strong and durable that the auto sector can afford to give a raise to its employees.
jonatwitan

Are we going to have to go through this sort of dance all year Emily? To make you life as easy as possible, here is a link to the constitution of the Liberal Party of Canada:
http://cdn3.liberal.ca/files/2010/05/lpc-2009-con…

Please note Chapter 11, point 47. You will notice that there is a footnote that will lead you to Chapter 14. That one is worth reading also.

Afterwards, feel free to clarify your above retort. In particular, why do you assume the poster has confused internal party rules with national election rules simply by observing that Ignatieff was not elected by his party.

It's going to be a fun year!
Cats

Um nowhere does he claim that Ignatieff coming to power in the way he did is somehow illegal.

Its just morally wrong, secretive, dangerous, and outside the bounds of normal behavior in a democratic society.

Oh wait, lol, isn't that what you say Harper does ??

Mirror Cats!
Cats

Lol just like that time you claimed the US has a low corporate tax rate.

Hint to Emily: nobody listens to what you have to say on the economy.

Economics Cats!
Cats

Um no.

#1) Coalition supporter.
#2) If the economy is doing badly they can ask for more stimulus.

Their dream would be quantitative easing to lower the dollar and give them a competitive advantage.

Actually Cats!
hollinm

Actually not…he is all for the workers and he has seen what the recession has done to his industry in Ontario and elsewhere. The Conservatives are not union friendly and so he will do whatever he can to make the economy look as bad as he can. What assumptions did he use for example.? The devil is always in the details. I will take the info from the OECD and IMF before a guy who represents the interest of unions. They are part of the problem. No wonder the auto industry was virtually in the dumpster and had to be rescued by all taxpayers. Despite evidence to the contrary the unions continued to demand excessive wage and benefit increases despite the evidence that the North American car companies were in deep sh.t.
Emily

I don't intend to dance at all….that's a Con thing.

No one cares how party leaders are chosen….could be a name drawn out of a hat for all it matters to voters.

There is no Lib requirement to do anything more than was already done.

In fact if they needed to, they could have a new leader in 15 minutes.
Jenn_

You should have started at the beginning of the document you linked to. Right underneath "Liberal Party of Canada Constitution" it said "As adopted and amended at the Biennial Convention on November 30 and December 1, 2006, further amended at the Biennial Convention in Vancouver on May 2, 2009, and ratified by the National Board of
Directors on September 19, 2009"

I'm fairly sure it was in Vancouver on May 2, 2009 that this rule was amended to what you see now. Unfortunately, I wasn't on the executive at that time, but I'm pretty sure it was my own EDA that proposed that change.

But nice try on fudging the facts.
Emily

Actually people pay me a good deal of money for what I have to say on the economy.

However, they quote me correctly, unlike yourself.

Back to your nap basket, kitty.
jonatwitan

Dancing is a Con thing? Umm….well…uh….you see…..never mind.

As for the rest of your response, I will assume that your regression to ad hominem is your concession.
Emily

Dancing around a subject mixing up all the types of music is, yes. Usually involves a mulberry bush too.

Much like you've just done here.

Along with your false victimhood, and faux assumption.
hollinm

Emily is a peach. Cofront her with facts and she still spins away hoping beyond hope that somebody, anybody will believe her. I think she is employed by the Liberal party to troll this blog and put forward the party position on whatever the discussion is about.
Trouble is she is losing the fight. Ignatieff is going nowhere in a hurry. She says she is not a Liberal but we sure could not tell from the support she gives the party.
Richard_S_Argent

1) Unconvincing
2a) Stimulus is temporary, wage increases are forever.
2b) "Stimulus" often is paired with "restructuring".

3) Is there anybody in Canada to whom your last point wouldn't apply?

Try again!
Gayle

Do you have any actual analysis of the report? Or are you simply going to resort to ad hominem attacks. Or perhaps you are not at all concerned with the fact that only the weak resort to personal attacks in lieu of actual argument?
Gayle

And who were all those mysterious donors to Harper's leadership campaign again?
cooper

Harper knows immorality. They are brothers and tied with an unbilical cord to unethical his nasty shadow.
Emily

Odd that Cons are supposedly all for the 'working man'….just as long as they're not unionized. LOL

Must be that religious prohibition kicking in.
hollinm

Emily you are better to remain silent when you are losing the battle. It makes you look foolish with this kind of retort..
hollinm

Jenn…..so you say you are a nobody. Well the above post tells me who I am conversing with when you and are discussing points. You are no dispassionate observer of political events.
Jenn_

Wow. You're only discovering that NOW? I pretty much have 80% of my posts say something like, "as a Liberal . . ."
hollinm

Desperation, Desperation Desperation….been there, done that, bought the T Shirt. What an inept comment.
Emily

I haven't lost any 'battle' hollinm…in fact there hasn't been one.

Libs can have any leader they choose, in any manner they choose…and it's none of your business how they do it.
Emily

Why thank you.

However, I'm not a Liberal…but then you're not a conservative either, so we're even.

PS…Harper is going nowhere in a hurry either.
Gayle

Speaking of inept, one wonders why you just wasted your time ignoring my point?

See, cats here suggested, like you, that the way Ignatieff gained the leadership was somehow "secretive". He went further to suggest that Harper was not secretive.

I merely pointed out he was totally wrong. Apparently, as per your usual knee jerk reaction, you do not like it when people point out nasty things about Harper. It is almost as though you do not like facts and stuff.
Jenn_

Sorry, hollinm, I meant I was nobody of any importance. I thought you knew I was a Liberal. I mean, I can't believe you didn't know I was a Liberal. I'm just not a Liberal of any importance, and I thought you thought I might be.
hollinm

Hey Jenn…Unless somebody specifically says which party they support one can only guess their political affiliation from the comments made. I suspected but did not accuse without actually knowing. However, I will keep it in mind for the next time we discuss a point.
Jenn_

Okay, well, that's fair I guess. But I haven't been hiding it or anything. Also, as a Liberal, I'm still me. I mean to say, I don't necessarily agree with absolutely everything any Liberal comes out with. I don't hide that, either. Oh yeah, one more thing. I'm also an events planning coordinator (made that title up myself) for my local chapter of CAPP (Canadians Advocating Political Participation). I'm the only Liberal on our planning committee, we really are multi-partisan. Now I think you know everything you need for going forward.
hollinm

I won't hold it against you that you are a Liberal as long as you don't hold it against me that I am Conservative. Fairs fair.:-)
I enjoyed our exchanges. They were not highly partisan but dealt with the issue primarily.
Jenn_

Deal! I enjoyed them, too.
Cats

I've posted the link to your exact words before.

"The US has a low corporate tax rate"

followed by the argument that since the US economy is in the toilet it doesn't make economic sense for the CPC to push ahead with corporate tax rates.

That gem was courtesy of Emily.

You want to deny it ? Cats can dig.
Cats

Start with number 3) Anyone who imports goods as opposed to exports them.

Back to 1) Union = NDP or BQ. You don't think they spout the party line ? True believers man.

2a) Wage increases are dependent on a companies bottom line which can't be "talked up".
2b) Economy wide stimulus like write offs for equipment purchases is hardly ever paired with restructuring.

And the auto "restructuring" basically involved bond holders taking a hit and the unions coming out golden.

You don't know much about this economics thing eh ??

Eh Cats ?
Cats

Was that a response to me or just an as homily attack on my character ?

English Cats.
Cats

Union bosses drive whole sectors of the economy into the ditch. All those working men and women lose their jobs.

Supporting unions means NOT supporting unionized workers.

Cats!
Cats

Hey Gayle who created the financial rules at the time of Harper's leadership campaign ?

Hey Gayle which leadership contender would later go on to become a Liberal cabinet minister ? Who donated to her ?

Mirror Cats.
hollinm

Gayle….who appointed Ignatieff? Tell us. We want to know. It sure wasn't the grassroots of the party.

Harper won the leadership fair and square through a vote of the membership. It has nothing to do with who contributed to his campaign and you know it. I still say it was an inept defence of your guy. Lets ask Belinda Stronach and Tony Clement who donated to their campaigns while were at it..
Cats

By the way, Harper can't disclose who donated to him.

Confidentiality is TWO SIDED. Those were the Liberal rules.

Liberal Cats.
Gayle

Ha ha

Yeah, that is totally a great excuse for Harper not to disclose. Is there a rule that compels him to refuse to say he is going to disclose his donors and make that a condition of accepting donations? Otherwise it is ever so convenient for him to refuse to be open and accountable, dontcha think? One would think that a politician who was campaigning on such a platform would insist all his donors adhere to his standards.

ha ha ha
hollinm

Ok Emily whatever you say. However, I thought this was a democratic party who allowed its delegates to a convention representing all of the ridings who get to choose the leader. I guess the leadership convention at which Dion won was a figment of everybody's imagination.
The party gets to elect the leader not the back room boys. If you see nothing wrong in this then I feel sorry for you. I can imagine what you would say if Stephen Harper was appointed leader of the Conservative party.
Emily

Dig all you want, you've misquoted me.
Richard_S_Argent

There is so much that is so very wrong with what you've written that I don't even know where to begin.

1) Still unconvincing.

3) So about 1% of the Canadian economy then.
2a) Really? So the next time a union asks for a raise, it's because the company's bottom line has increased and there's no way said company will ever be able to claim they can't afford it? Good to know.
2b) Really? I guess you should tell that to the people who used to build Pontiacs

And finally, really? So when they close parts plants in various parts of the country, that's unions "coming out golden"? Good to know.

(I actually do know quite a bit about this whole economics thing…see this pinko worked in the financial sector for 7 years)

Pauve chatons
Emily

LOL it's an internal party matter, so stop pretending Cons are 'concerned'.
Gayle

That was a response to you. Clearly you are not so good at English, cats, since you are unable to see the difference.

Nor are you able to provide any analysis of the report. Ad hominem is all you've got, which means you don't have anything.

Thanks for clarifying.
Gayle

Ignatieff won as well. I am surprised I have to explain this all to you. See, he threw his hat in the ring. No one else did. He can hardly be blamed for the fact no one chose to run against him.

But hey, you go on and completely fabricate a scenario in which he was appointed by some mysterious people if you want. The facts have never got in your way before so I do not see why you would allow them to inconvenience you now.
Cats

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/10/21/backward-bendi…

"The US has low corporate taxes"
Second comment in on the second thread courtesy of you.

Do you not remember the mistakes you make ??

Pretending it didn't happen Cats.
Cats

3) Hydrocarbons are priced in US dollars buddy.

The fact that you seem to think almost all Canadians would get a competitive advantage from a dollar devaluation kind of ends this conversation.

BTW even exporters need to import equipment.

You really should just avoid this whole economics thing.

There's is so much very wrong in what you've written.

Cats away!
Cats

Et tu Gayle ?

Mirror Cats. You've started into the void.