Our health care delusion

One study ranked Canada dead last in timeliness and quality care

by Ken MacQueen on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:00am - 204 Comments
Our health care delusion

Peter Power/Toronto Star

On Jan. 26, Maclean’s is hosting “Health Care in Canada: Time to Rebuild Medicare,” a town hall discussion at the Sir James Dunn Theatre, Dalhousie University, Halifax. The event, in conjunction with the Canadian Medical Association, will be broadcast live by CPAC. The conversation on health reform continues in the coming months in the magazine and at town halls in Toronto, Edmonton, Vancouver and Ottawa.

A distraught 41-year-old man from West Kelowna, B.C., arrived at the emergency department of Kelowna General Hospital on the night of Dec. 28. “He was broken mentally,” his wife later told the local Daily Courier. “He wanted help.” By her account, he waited 90 minutes without seeing a doctor, minor by today’s emergency room standards. Kelowna RCMP put the wait at just 45 minutes. Regardless, he snapped, warning staff that he’d drive his truck into the hospital if he didn’t get treatment. When threats didn’t get results, he stormed out and returned at the wheel of his Chevy Blazer. As promised, he smashed through the ER’s double doors, narrowly missing two elderly people (one assumes they were elderly before their wait in emergency) and came to a halt in a hospital hallway.

Police arrived to find him waiting co-operatively in his truck. The bed he was assigned that night was in the RCMP detachment cell; he faces several charges including dangerous operation of a motor vehicle. While his strategy was extreme, his cry for attention resonates with many who’ve had the misfortune to trade germs and waste time in one of Canada’s overstressed emergency wards.

It’s a Canadian conceit that ours is one of the best public health care systems in the world, a defining characteristic of nationhood; something that separates us from the Americans. In a poll by Angus Reid Public Opinion in June, 69 per cent of Canadians said they’re proud of the health care system, edging out the state of Canadian democracy, multiculturalism and bilingualism.

Yet the reality, based on any number of international comparisons, shows that pride in a supposedly world-beating standard of care is often misplaced, an “illusion,” as Liberal MP and medical doctor Keith Martin puts it. The sorry state of the nation’s emergency wards is just one indicator of trouble today and trouble to come. ERs are just “the canary in the coal mine,” says Dr. John Ross, Nova Scotia’s adviser on emergency care.

Martin, a former family and emergency room doctor and an MP from Vancouver Island, has been saying as much since he entered federal politics 17 years ago as a Reform party member. He practised medicine part-time until about three years ago, experiencing the same things that first spurred him into politics: the indignity of examining patients on gurneys in hospital hallways; people enduring such agonizing waits for hip or knee replacements that they suffered heart attacks; tumours that grew to inoperable sizes as people waited months for diagnostic scans. “Those,” he says, “are the casualties of our health care system, and the casualties of the inaction of modernizing the system, that people don’t talk about.”

Emergency wards are all too often the first point of contact with the health care system, a problem exacerbated by the fact that five million Canadians don’t have a family physician, and because acute-care beds are often stuffed with elderly patients who would be better served in long-term care facilities. Often the waits are excruciating. For a man in the throes of a mental breakdown, driving to, and through, the ER of Kelowna General should have been the last, worst option. “He was at the end of his rope,” his wife said. “You can’t see a psychiatrist. It takes a while to get an appointment. That’s why people go to the hospital.”

And what they often find in maxed-out ERs is a chaotic environment and waits, of six, eight hours and more. The consequences can be deadly. In Edmonton’s Royal Alexandra Hospital this September, Shayne Hay reported to the hospital’s emergency ward, telling staff he was suicidal. He was placed in a room on an emergency stretcher and checked periodically, though repeated requests to see a counsellor went unanswered, his family says. Some 12 hours later he was found dead, hanging from a strap of his backpack. In Montreal, long waits in the ER at Maisonneuve-Rosemont hospital were blamed by families for contributing to the deaths of two people last year. Mariette Fournier, 86, spent four days on a stretcher in the hallway waiting for a bed in the geriatric department. She contracted pneumonia, developed a blood clot, and died on Feb. 23, a day after finally getting a bed. That same month, 75-year-old Mieczyslaw Figiel died beside the triage nursing station, with his daughter banging on the station’s window as he gasped for breath. The ER was at 180 per cent capacity.

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  • Brenda Rolfe

    I believe that an effective way to start fixing our health care system would be to start opening community health care centres across this country. If you google " Association of Ontario Health Care Centres" you will see what I mean.

    I have been fortunate to be referred to the Port Hope Health Care Centre and have been very pleasantly surprised by the excellent care that my family has received there in the past year.

  • http://www.wikipedia.org Andrew

    His acts made us worried about health care in the country. It`s a pity we could only see this this <a rel="follow" href="http://www.unimedia.md ">now .

  • Michael

    Who cares about health care? You are going to die anyway.

  • Tokalosh

    A friend who is a wonderful public health nurse to schools has quite because she is so tired of the bureacrats telling her how to do her job and not asking for her opinion on how to do the job well. There is only one boss – the government so she does even have a choice about where she works. In the private world you can chose to work for an Apple or a Microsoft.
    Also, we have not even looked at what one public health care sector is doing to the business side of health care. You have one buyer and Health Ontario has set up Buy Ontario. This program only buys from large suppliers so as to save money purchasing. So GM and 2 other US firms provide all the supplies and shut out Canadian companies. One of the health care companies who won the exporters award and told me that was because they had to find buyers or go bust. So now they supply US and South American hospitals.
    GE has set up a sales office in Canada but there are no manufacturing facilities, no jobs developing new products, no intellectual property development. Our Venture Capitalist market has gone too. These are big issues.

  • Tony, SFO-YUL

    The healthcare system in Canada is dependent on prioritizing the severity of illness of the person. And probably the age of the person. 90 year old Grandma who had a heart attack might not be seen before the younger person who arrived from a car accident. It’s a matter of prioritizing in Canada.

    Also recently, my 82 year old mother who had a severe heart condition had heart surgery within a week, in Montreal, of all places.
    So don’t say the system is broken because it is not.

  • RVH

    Thank God-so refreshing to read a thoughtful post.

  • http://www.caesarsquitti.com Caesar Squitti

    Canada health system ranks 30th in the world (no its not the best system, France and Italy ranks in the top two).

    Why…one simple reason, the payment system rewards repeat visits, penalizes quality, efficient treatments, and cures.

    Doctors services are priceless, but by paying per visit, you promote volume of visits. (simple systemic flaw) that creates an inverse relationship between your doctors income and your health; not a good thing.

    Look to Italy, pay my doctors an annual fee per patient, so we reward good health.

    Caesar J. B. Squitti
    H. B. Commerece: LU

  • http://www.caesarsquitti.com Caear Squitti

    The Diseae Conspiracy.

    There is an author of a book, of that name, who suggests that our publically funded, for profit system has created a system that seeks not to find cures, but to create disease boxes; foundations to promote 'research' and avoid simple cures.

    I have to agree.

    Some 20 years ago I did some research on probably causes of several symptoms and came across "Lymes' Disease'.

    I checked with the local health department and found to my amazement that NOT ONE CASE OF LYMES DISEASE WAS FOUND IN THUNDER BAY. Odd ?

    Lymes disease is carried by dear ticks, and across the border, in Minnesota, there was alot of cases.

    Could it be that 'the deer' did not have passports and were not able to cross into Canada and transfer the disease ?

    Again paying doctors a fee per visit, does not encourage finding the cause of many diseases, nor a simple cure.

    (PS my cousin in Rome, has found a connection between metals/fat cells and the ability of 'these compounds' to cross the blood/brain barrier. Please note there is not standard for aluminum in drinking water and SOME water treatment system use flaked aluminum to filter the water resulting in a high level of aluminum in drinking water)

    Parkinsons ? Drug cocktails often create symptoms that resemble Parkinsons: any connection ?

    Mental diseases? Many bacterial, viral infections can cause these symptoms, why is not the general public aware of these simple 'organic causes' Sure would remove the stigma of mentall illness; since it is caused by infections or over the counter drugs; ie PPA.

  • Dan

    Come to New West. If you hit a busy night you can get treated as you sip a double-double in the Tim Hortons attached to the hospital that got used as extra space.

  • http://profiles.google.com/syrlinus Linus Bourque

    As a Canadian living in the US, I can say I’d rather have the healthcare that was even dead last than having to pay and pay and pay and pay and pay and.. be denied healthcare like I have been in the US (and that’s even with private insurance through my company). I miss Canadian health care and so wish I could still get it here.

    Sigh.

    I need to convince my wife that we should move to BC. :P

  • Anonymous

     As a victim of a cover up that happen in  Nova Scotia hospitals I would  beg to differ with any recommendations given by Dr.John Ross..
    The quality of care here in the ER’s is very poor.
    Don’t get Meningitis because they are too clueless to know what the standard of care,test or treatment is.After a spinal tap the mental illness diagnosis can be quickly put in place to hide incompetent care and you can find yourself being put in a psychiatric hospital..Even though you are medically ill not mentally ill..Doctors can be brought over to treat you medically in a psych hospital and all will be willing to go along with this fraud..Damage is easy to conceal..They just stop you from getting the necessary tests.Then they get away with it.
    This is what goes really goes on here in NS…

  • Anonymous

     As a victim of a cover up that happen in  Nova Scotia hospitals I would  beg to differ with any recommendations given by Dr.John Ross..
    The quality of care here in the ER’s is very poor.
    Don’t get Meningitis because they are too clueless to know what the standard of care,test or treatment is.After a spinal tap the mental illness diagnosis can be quickly put in place to hide incompetent care and you can find yourself being put in a psychiatric hospital..Even though you are medically ill not mentally ill..Doctors can be brought over to treat you medically in a psych hospital and all will be willing to go along with this fraud..Damage is easy to conceal..They just stop you from getting the necessary tests.Then they get away with it.
    This is what goes really goes on here in NS…

  • alfanerd

    "…had the misfortune to trade germs and waste time in one of Canada’s overstressed emergency wards."

    There is no more objective way to say it. I cant imagine anyone having gone through that experience and not considering it a misfortune, a waste of time, and a risk of infection.

  • Alex

    I live in Cambridge Ontario, I have been waiting since mid-December 2010 to get an appointment for a gastroenterologist. And I got it. It's on March 04-th. Why???? Because there are only two of them in Cambridge, Ontario. Two gastroenterologists for a population of 100,000 people? Meanwhile, the College of Surgeons Ontario together with the Ministry of Education can not find enough obstacles to put in the path of doctors immigrating to Canada from other countries and trying to work here as physicians or specialists.
    This is what we get for living in a socialist country like Canada. Trying to make life level and equal for all people does not work. The socialist health care system does not work.
    FOR ALL THOSE INTERESTED HERE IS THE FRASER INSTITUTE REPORT ON THE CANADIAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM – SEE BOTTOM OF PAGE: http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/disp…

  • Alex

    I forgot to mention something very important:
    CANADA IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT OUTLAWS PRIVATE PARALLEL HEALTH CARE.

  • Amateur Hour

    Well, if you're going to go all anecdotal on us: I live in downtown Toronto and have never had to wait more than 48 hours for any test, nor 2 weeks to see a specialist — because I live near multiple teaching hospitals. Perhaps if you journeyed through the wilds of the 905 and sought an appointment in the 416, your wait might not be so long? What is that, 40 minutes?

    Access to healthcare is influenced more by where you live than the type of insurance/delivery system. I grew up in the rural USA and had crap access. When I moved to cities, I had access, but paid a fortune in deductibles and co-pays over and above my insurance. Ontario's system needs help, but it's not as bad as what's available south of the border. As for European models, if we all lived closer together, we'd have more doctors per 100,000 in our communities, too.

  • dave

    Because there are only two of them in Cambridge, Ontario. Two gastroenterologists for a population of 100,000 people?
    Interesting fact: Doctors are private employees and free to go where they want. If you want more in Cambridge, convince your council to start up a program to sell them on the idea it's someplace they'd actually want to live.

    I should not have to travel from Cambridge to Toronto just for a regular specialist appointment.
    In a perfect world, sure. The world's not perfect. Learn to accommodate and abuse the system. Hell, I've been going to college in Peterborough, asked my FD in North Bay for a reference to a specialist to have a look at my knee because of some recurring issues, been told he wouldn't know any in Peterborough and gone: "Well, send me to Toronto then. It's a bus ride away and I'll visit fam/friends" and had an appointment in about 2 weeks.

    That said, remember: sitting in a corner wailing and pouting because daddy won't give you a pony isn't going to get your problem solved.

  • Amateur Hour

    "Our health care delusion"

    Hello, strawman.

  • Alex

    What does the square mile have to do with the number of doctors per capita? How would you have more doctors if we lived close together? Let's assume the following scenario: Toronto has a population of 2M people and let's say 1,000 doctors and Cambridge a population of 100K people and two doctors. If these two cities were one big city then you would have 2.1M people with 1002 doctors this would be more doctors per capita?
    You are not serious, are you?

  • Guest

    You've obviously never had to see a rheumatologist, or a neuroendocrinologist, or any one of a number of specialists who have similar wait-times. Try waiting six months to see a rheumatologist at one of those teaching hospitals rated "shouldn't be allowed to treat animals" on ratemd.com (that was an acccurate comment btw), 8-12 months to see a human version.

  • Amateur Hour

    I'm serious about distribution impacts on per capita averages.

  • Placentia Bay Ex-pat

    It would be a good thing if we had people who were willing to run for office and state openly and honestly what we need to do to fix the system and ask for the support to do it.Then if Canadians fail to support these people than they get what they deserve,i know the rest of us have to live with it as well but a point has to be made some way. To many people in this counrty refer to our health system as free and therefore fail to take any responsbility for visiting emergency rooms for non-emergency issues.People on welfare roles really do pay nothing while the rest of us pay threw the nose, i don't know what it will take to fix the system but if Canadians don't get the heads around the fact that change is needed for it to survive or nothing will be left when its needed most.

  • Alex

    You can not have uniform distribution. Never ever. Not even within Toronto. And that's not the point. I should not have to travel from Cambridge to Toronto just for a regular specialist appointment. Obviously if someone needs top notch procedures or Stargate medical equipment I understand that may only be available in large cities with medical universities and research centres. But this is not the case. All rural areas or whatever you want to call Cambridge and even the city of Toronto are under-served. Every single canadian city is underserved. I will not take half a day off work or use my vacation day to travel to Toronto for what should be a regular appointment and ON MY DIME. I am not getting what I am paying for and that includes the McGuinty health care premium.
    And I used to live in Toronto, I should say North York and had to wait 1 week to see my family doctor. I was actually one of the lucky people who had a family doctor. Obviously you are a canadian born citizen and you inherited your family doctor. Depending on the test you require you may get it in 48hrs or 6 months and that includes downtown Toronto. When did you need an MRI last time and got it in 48 hrs?

  • madeyoulook

    Healthcare Insider is not offering a straw man; he describes our national silliness over health care rather well: I don't know that we are proud of our healthcare system in its current state but I think we are proud of what our healthcare system aspires to be.

    We suck, but geez, on paper, we should be pretty swell. There's a slogan!

  • s_c_f

    Anyone who's spent anywhere near the average 8 hour wait would consider it a misfortune and waste of time. And anyone who's followed the news of the last 10 years know that the transfer of antibiotic-resistant germs in hospitals is a big problem.

    What you call a lack of objectivity, others call fact.

  • s_c_f

    Except for North Korea.

  • W.B.

    Let's keep it that way. I can't afford to get into the fast pay as you go line with the big money guys or my Visa. I'll be in that second tier line up, the slow one that ends with the least skilled doctors and out dated equipment. When are poor people going to realize what they are about to lose?

  • Ryan

    If they would allow the people that want to pay extra to see someone else, wouldn't that free up the one long lineup a bit? a win-win if you ask me.

  • Ed Sodaro

    I love when brain-washed Canadian sheep counter with "But our doctors actually control the whole thing and they are private."

    Pure delusion. A common Canadian self-deception.

    Who pays these doctors? You or government bureaucrats?

    Who decides what they shall be paid and what will be reimbursed? You or governement bureaucrats?

  • stillsickinONT

    Except in QC.
    Head to Gatineau, and they have bi-lingual services, $200 a pop to see a primary physician. But you get 30 mins, not 5 and indifference and BS.
    If you're really sick, you'll pay on credit cards or anythig else to get well….I did for an acute illness that damaged my heart because I had to wait and wait and wait until I had developed another health issue from the initial one – a serious stubborn infection.
    I paid over 800 for medications as well as the four visits.
    ~stillsickinONT

  • http://twitter.com/CHC_LAMP @CHC_LAMP

    An excellent report about the financial status of Medicare in Canada and some strong recommendations on how to improve our public, single-tier health system is something I would recommend to all Canadians.

    Hugh Mackenzie and Michael Rachlis: "The Sustainability of Medicare". A must read and you can find it here: http://www.una.ab.ca/news/archive/medicaresustain…

  • Core Canadian

    I live in a region with more than half a million people in Ontario near Toronto. I pay the highest "Health Tax" but now my doctor no longer performs annual physicals-the Nurse Practitioner does it. This same Nurse Practitioner had to look up the side effects of the birth control pill for me. This is something most girls know in high school. Unbelievable the level of care I get for my money.

  • s_c_f

    Funny how it doesn't work that way with dentists. Or food. Or electricity. Or every other essential private good and service. Your socialist scare-mongering is wrong.

  • Healthcare Insider

    Do not kid yourself. The working poor without benefits do not go to the dentist and do not take their children to the dentist. Luckily there are optometrists who provide glasses for free to kids whose parents aren't on social assistance but cannot afford glasses.

  • Guest

    You're joking, right? Yes, it's a wonderful system for all those poor people who want to get a quick appointment with that great dentist with the nice office. Too bad so many of them have so few teeth left to fix – being that it's so quick and all… Cause, hey, scarcity of dentists is their main problem…

  • W.B.

    What world are you living in? Poor people don't haver regular dental care only in emergencies when the pain is unbearable. Then it's a quick cheap extraction. The dentist offices are full of people with private insurance, teachers etc. Dentistry is our version of the American health care system.

  • Guest

    Yes. Competition brings choice and brings prices down in all goods and services. It's government and union monopolies that mess the downward trajectory up.

  • Healthcare Insider

    Who is this someone else you are going to see when you pay more? We are short of physicians & nurses and OR times and hospital beds. Somehow though, when they contract out the services to private providers, things get humming along more efficiently – at least that is what seems to happen with laser eye procedures and hip surgeries. Why is that? Could it be things are bogged down in administrative red-tape?

  • W.B.

    What you pay extra for is to get the best doctors.

  • Healthcare Insider

    To be fair to nurse practitioners, they typically have 6 years of university schooling & clinical training. Nurses in this country have the highest averages entering university of any faculty. Maybe he/she just wanted to be thorough and give you the full list according to the pharmaceutical directory. Obviously the physicians in the clinic trust this person's level of competence.

  • guest

    I have a an excellent doctor with many yea in a drug manual (online now) while I'm in his office. This is thoroughness and caution and I appreciate it.

  • novascotianer

    would you rather one who didn't look up side effects? Really what DO you want?

  • Terry Jeffery

    I live in Port Aberni BC and have been waiting for kidney surgery for a very long time. I have been in pain for over a year as every time I went to emerg I got the run around. Have told them that this problem runs in the family but no one listens. Im getting very fusterated and still waiting. This heathcare is like being in a third world Country .

  • Healthcare Insider

    Alex, how in a country as large as Canada are we possibly going to provide services so no one has to travel any distance to see a specialist? You have no idea what under-served is. My family lives in northern Alberta. My parents had to rent an apartment in the city of Edmonton, 6 hours away from their home in a rural community for 2 months so my father could have radiation treatments for cancer. They paid out of pocket for the apartment.

  • Amateur Hour

    "I will not take half a day off work or use my vacation day to travel to Toronto for what should be a regular appointment and ON MY DIME."

    If you're not willing to be an advocate for your own health or to make such a minor sacrifice (half a day?) of your time in order to travel to obtain care sooner, then you really have no business complaining about a 3 month wait to see someone locally at a time that's convenient for you. Moreover, YOUR DIME will buy you less under a for-profit insurance system (they have shareholders who want profits, yo).

    "Obviously you are a canadian born citizen and you inherited your family doctor. Depending on the test you require you may get it in 48hrs or 6 months and that includes downtown Toronto. When did you need an MRI last time and got it in 48 hrs?"

    You're working yourself into an irrational tizzy. I was born in the US and emigrated to Canada 12 years ago. Compared to the care options in the US (in 4 states, under several different health insurance schemes), I have received great service and value in Ontario. My wife and I have a family doctor at a downtown practice group — who we found on our own — no inheritance required. That clinic, like many others in the downtown, regularly advertise that they have family physicians who are accepting new patients.

    You can also find family doctors using Health Connect or by searching the College of Physicians and Surgeons:
    http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/ms/healthcareconne… http://www.cpso.on.ca/

    When choosing a family doctor, be sure to research which hospitals they have privileges at, as this will affect your access to specialist referrals and care!!!

    As for the last time I needed an MRI — it wasn't an emergency (critical), so I could wait. Because I was willing to take a cancellation appointment and could come in for an MRI at night, I only waited 4 days. In at 9:30 PM, out at 10:15PM.

    If you want care fast you must be willing to be flexible and put your health needs before your desire for convenience. Be an advocate for your own health. This is the case under ANY system.

  • yad

    depends who u know in the crap bankrupt mediocre lacking system…

  • mary

    Something happened to my post. Here it is again. I have an excellent doctor with many years of experience. He often looks up information on drug side effects and interactions (online now) while I'm in his office. This is thoroughness and caution and I appreciate it.

  • Alex

    That was exactly my point. However, basic services should be accessed anywhere. How? By opening the tap for the foreign trained doctors who have been lining up at our universities for 5-8 years to get their studies recognized, ruining their lives and the lives of their spouses and children trying to get in the system when they are 40 years old already. There are a lot of things the government could do and some of these things do not even cost money. Why these things are not done? Because of corruption, because of the unions and because of the various medical associations who are trying to protect the non-competitive medical environment.
    And you know what? Whe do live close together in Canada. Look at the map.
    And you haven't answered my question. When did you have your MRI done in 48 hrs?

  • Amateur Hour

    I wan't referring to Healthcare Insider, but rather to the author and headline of this article.

  • Amateur Hour

    Yes, I have had to see specialists — a few times. Some are available on a weekly rotation at my family doctor's clinic. Others are available at the hospitals in which he has privileges. For something urgent, my wait times have been less than a week. For something not urgent, less than six weeks. Again, I live near several large hospitals, have a family doctor for referrals and several walk-in clinics nearby. Proximity matters. When I lived in the rural US, specialist care was often 2-3 hours drive away and wait times could be just as long– whether you had money or not.

  • s_c_f

    Now you've changed your argument, and so has Guest and Healthcare Insider. Previously you claimed the poor would have access to poor doctor care (which has been proven false in almost every other OECD country, including almost every European country). Now you're trying to claim that there will no longer be any doctors available in the public system (which, strangely enough, IS THE PROBLEM WE HAVE TODAY, THANKS TO CANADA'S SYSTEM), which has also been debunked in every other country that has both private and public access, which includes all of Europe, Japan, and so on. Make up your mind!

    And puhleaze, read the article, nobody wants America's system, it's actually ranked lower.

  • s_c_f

    You're arguing something different now. I've responded to you below. Stick to one argument please. Now you're arguing that dentistry should be part of the public system. Fine. I'm not against that. I'm arguing we should have both a private and public system. That's two different things.

  • s_c_f

    You're arguing something different now, but unlike Healthcare Insider, at least you admitted it in your final sentence. Now you're arguing that dentistry should be part of the public system. Fine. I'm not against that. I'm arguing we should have both a private and public system. That's two different things.

    My example of dentists, is that there is absolutely no shortage of them. In fact, each time I've moved somewhere, I've had choices between hundreds of them. There is no shortage of dentists, even if everybody who had doesn't have one today, got one tomorrow. That's because in the free market, supply meets demand. In Canada's socialist health care market, supply does not even come close to demand, in pretty well every single category, and that's because there exists no free market, so it is impossible for supply to meet demand. For pretty well every procedure, exam, diagnostic test, consultation, you name it, there is not enough supply, by a country mile, and it is glaring when our country is compared to every other advanced country in the world, all of which have both public and private systems. You want a root canal? Choose between hundreds of dentists that could do it tomorrow. You want an MRI? Wait four months, if you're lucky, then wait another four months for a qualified doctor to take a look at it. You want everyone to have a root canal? Fine, add it to medicare, but for God's sake, don't nationalize the dental industry! Allow the private market to continue to exist, or we'll end up with shortages there too.

    The fact that our country fares worst when it comes to meeting demand, while countries that have private and public systems fare much better (in both private and public availability), that shoots a gigantic hole in the nonsensical argument that opening up a private system in Canada will cause shortages! In fact, it will do the opposite, it will solve the problem of shortages, as has been shown absolutely everywhere. You people should get out of your house.

  • http://www.realist2.squarespace.com doctorfullerton

    Excellent and honest article based on fact and not ideology.

    Canadians need to understand not only health care realities but economic realities and they are very closely linked. One affects the other.

    Politicians are short term planners because of election cycles but health care requires at least a decade to implement significant change-that means we need to deal with 2020 NOW.

    Unfortunately, members of the public who feel they are getting reasonably good care now have a hard time fathoming the extent of the very serious difficulties ahead.

    More articles like this are needed to give Canadians a wake up call and responsible and less self-serving leadership is needed to make difficult decisions.

  • i <3 bags

    I don't think you read the whole thing, why don't you click on pages 2, 3, and 4 and then make a new comment.

    It's all very fair and objective. The main points I got from it were:

    1) We're spending lots of money for poor results.
    2) We can save a lot (and cut ER wait times) by treating people elsewhere, like at their family doctor, or in a seniors home.
    3) Small user fees can also save us money on unnecessary visits.
    4) Having a mix of public and private options (like the leading countries in all these reports do) would also make our public system more efficient and competitive.

  • Thwim

    Access to != Ability to access

    You're the one who conflated the two subjects when you brought in the example of dentists with the explicit comparator of "Funny it doesn't work that way with.."

    I mean, if you're gonna play grammar cop you could at least be consistent.

  • Thwim

    So go south and take advantage of private care.

    Can't afford it? What on earth makes you think it'd be cheaper here?

  • madeyoulook

    You're right, I blew this one. Sorry.

  • Core Canadian

    She genuinely seemed unsure of the side effects and read very high-level, general ones. As most women know, side effects can be specific per the brand and formulation. She should have known that and discussed the various hormonal blends and types and their ensuing potential side effects. I have no faith in this nurse practitioner and I resent paying top dollar for a nurse to do an annual. She is unqualified in my opinion to perform this. Consequently, I paid to have a proper physical in a private clinic in Montreal. It was wonderful and thorough.

  • guest

    Sorry, I may have misunderstood your comment and focused on your concern about the practitioner having to look something up. I live in a different province and have not had any similar experience. A complete physical once a year by a GP is fully covered in my province. I hope that never changes.

  • Mike Smyth

    My 20 yr old son David died Sept 3rd in my wife and my arms in hospital. Canada's stem cell registry didnt have a blood type match for him. Testing now is so simple too – a cue tip type swab in your mouth enables a person to get their blood type into the registry, plus if a match, a straight forward blood procedure is used to save the patient's life. When our health care care system determines a way to save a life how do we not implement effectively so we actually save many lives. I understand the Canadian Blood Services (ex Red Cross Canada) is strapped for cash and focused to get enough blood from us to send to our hospitals each day, but they have to educate us about the new advances in stem cell testing and surgery procedures so we can all decide if wish to get tested. I saw 4 people die in the 3 month period this summer when my son was in the McMaster University Hospital. Our federal govt has recently told me they have allocated resources to give the provinces, hospitals and CBS (great news..) Please see Facebook "SavingDavidSmyth" if you wish to learn more. from a father, Mike Smyth

  • s_c_f

    Well, I've clarified exactly what I meant by bringing up dentists, and in fact I was keeping with the duscussion at hand, which was about shortages, outdated equipment, and least skilled doctors (as expressed by WB), that would apparently plague the public system if we had a private system too.

    Dentistry the perfect example, because it's a private health care market in Canada, it was not nationalized like most of the rest of health care. The discussion was about shortages, so I pointed out that shortages don't exist in private markets, and dentistry is the perfect example. Denitists are available everywhere, all the time, for everybody, and they are not saddled by outdated equipment and poor skills at all.

    Another example is pharamacists. Ever had to wait months for an appointment with a pharmacist? Ever had to wait a half hour? Have you noticed that the typical pharmacist is available to discuss your medications at length, personally, for as long as you like, for no extra charge? Ever felt that pharmacists for the rich have better equipment and more skills? No.

  • Guest

    Bull. The engineers and scientists have deep specific knowlege of one area, but no ability to see the bigger picture.
    But they're they're too dumb to even realize what it is they don't know.

  • Guest

    and Cuba. That's the company Canada keeps on this issue. North Korea and Cuba.

  • Guest

    In a private system, nurses and other health care personnel go where they are needed i.e. the system has flexibility. In the public system unionized nurses have negotiated all kinds of things they prefer so it is quite common to see three nurses sitting around picking their noses in one department while another department is overloaded with patients and could use one or two of those idle nurses. Another major saving is in ancillary personnel like cleaning staff. Unionized cleaning staff in hospitals are paid over twice what the same job is paid in the private sector. Hospitals have started contracting out laundry for this reason. But the major useless cost in public hospitals is administration. Cut that fat and no one will notice. But those same administrators never cut themselves, but some service that's in the public's face.

  • StillsickinONT

    Don't move to Ont. then.

  • Healthcare Insider

    I know you may not realize this but even nurses specialize. A nurse who works in the emergency department has taken extra courses and done specific clinical training to work there. Different sorts of medical interventions require expertise. That is why nurses generally do not float from one area to another. Now, as for nurses sitting around – Do you know that unfortunately nurses must spend a vast amount of their time in recording everything that happens to each and every patient they care for. These are legal documents and are part of the requirements of the job. Hospitals in Calgary did turn to a private laundry service – no money was saved…they do not pay big money for cleaning in Alberta. It is another place that has been cut back – some of the areas are filthy.

  • jason

    Well certainly if the American health care system is so great then there should be large numbers of Canadians taking advantage, that is the bottom line.Truth is it is not,not just a few hundred but hundreds of thousands and there is not on a monthly basis. Truth is we cannot afford the monthly insurance fee or the deductibles for health care. However any Canadian who can afford american medical service is free to do so it is not illegal to do so. The system works for the middle class and the poor not for the rich, That is what is happening, now a more efficient service is needed, to cut costs and overexpenditures due to care that may not actually be needed.Also pay structure for staff to keep them in Canada would be of great benefit, in this situation you cannot afford to be cheap.

From Macleans