Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

How to fund an arena for a hypothetical NHL team without really doing so

by Aaron Wherry on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 11:02am - 73 Comments

Greg Weston previews the government’s next move.

Sources tell CBC News that the Conservative government is considering allowing part of the federal gas tax revenues to be used for construction of “large entertainment centres” such as the proposed new Quebec City arena. Cities and towns across the country currently share an annual pot of just over $2 billion from the federal gas taxes collected at the pumps.

While municipalities are free to pick their own projects, the federal government stipulates the gas-tax money can only be used for infrastructure such as roads, sewers and water treatment systems. Sources say the Harper government is considering simply amending the federal regulations to allow municipalities to spend all or part of their annual gas-tax funds on entertainment facilities such as a new NHL arena.

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  • WDM

    Ridiculous. Money earmarked for essential infrastructure should go to just that. If the provincial and municipal government want to use more discretionary funds to build an arena, let them fill their boots and then explain it to the voters, but this is the Conservatives trying to grab votes by funding the arena, but making local politicians lie down in front of the bus if the voters get upset. Smart politically, I suppose, but an abhorrent waste of federal tax dollars.

    • Jenn_

      Agreed, but really, that's on the municipality. We need to ensure we elect only those who view "necessary" infrastructure as more than "really cool to have". And I'm hopeful the backlash on the municipality–especially if said municipality has had a bridge collapse in the past, say for example, would be swift and unmistakeable. Or, maybe those citizens really want an arena!

      Very, very clever.

      • Mike R

        Coloseums and theatres are necessary infrastructures. Without them there are no cities.

        • LdKitchenersOwn

          I think there are cultural and sporting priorities worthy of government funding, and I'm not going to claim to definitively know where the line should be drawn regarding what should get money and what should not, but I'm absolutely convinced that the line should be drawn at some point before taxpayer funding goes to build an NHL arena for a city that not only has no NHL team, but hasn't even been promised that they'll be considered for one at some point in the future.

          • Mike R

            But if it was money that would have gone to that city anyway, and they decide this is a priority – why not let them do what they want with it? It may be a mistake, and perhaps the motorists of Quebec City will suffer from having more potholes than they would otherwise have to put up with – but if that is their choice how does it affect me? Granted there should probably be some defined terms of how tax money should be spent – but public works projects are public works projects. And for the last few thousand years, public arenas have been a recognizable part of civic infrastructure. I don't see this proposal as being much of a stretch.

          • MostlyCivil

            "but if that is their choice how does it affect me?'

            How? Roads, sewers and water treatment systems will still need to be built, and there's only one taxpayer. They'll be back looking for funding for that, too, and if they don't get it from the feds, the municipality or province will have to pay.

            And since lots of money spent in Quebec comes from Ottawa…guess who pays?

  • Emily

    Municipalites have been doing this forever….get money for one purpose, and then spend it on a local hockey rink instead.

    Always a better vote-getter than bridges or sewage or water.

    • Mark

      I'm so glad you seem to know everything about everything. I also love the snide little remarks in nearly every post. You're the best.

  • hollinm

    I am opposed to any funding for the Quebec arena or any other arena in the country. This is not a priority for Canadian taxpayers. If what Weston is reporting is true Harper should reconsider his position and quickly.
    MPs I am sure have been told by the electorate in spades they are not interested in funding play toys for millionaire businessman and rich hockey players.

    • lgarvin

      Remember when John Manley tried to get some funding for the Ottawa Senators (the hockey team)? That was one of the fastest climbdowns I've ever seen, before or since. Despite the efforts of political types and marketing types, real hockey fans know better than anyone else that the NHL is a privately held and lucrative business, it's not a nationalist cause.

      • madeyoulook

        I thought Manley's short-lived harebrained scheme was to support ALL Canadian NHL teams, to prop them up while Chretien's team celebrated the wave of national faux-prosperity created by the almost worthless Canadian dollar.

        • lgarvin

          Right you are… I was remembering the Senators only because it was their financial struggles that sparked the initiative. Manley had some relationship with then-owner Rod Bryden as well. At least that's my recollection

          • madeyoulook

            To Manley's credit, it didn't take too much outraged howling for him to scamper down that flagpole but quick…

  • lgarvin

    It probably would have been easier for them just to redefine infrastructure to include things like cultural buildings & sports facilities.

    Not that I'm in favour of the project, just interested in the tactics of the thing. I already predicted some time ago that federal funds will flow to this arena project within 2 years. Sometimes it's a drag to be right all the time ;-).

    • Mike R

      I don't see anything wrong with allowing muncipalities to make the decision to spend discretionary money on cultural and social infrastructure. Vancouver is considering a new art gallery and public money spent on that would be more useful in the long run than the amount spent so far on bicycle lanes that no one uses.

      • lgarvin

        Well, if I were trying to shovel public money into private pockets I would probably make a similar argument. There is a certain logic to it, after all. I mean, a library or a hockey arena is infrastructure too, right?

        The difference here is that the proposed arena in Quebec City is not going to be public infrastructure. It's going to be a private facility built (at least in part) with public money. I'm opposed.

  • LaxAtlDfwYow

    While I loathe the deceit that is at the heart of the scheme, one has to admit some painfully dissonant, grudging admiration for this quite clever application of political lubricant to the CPC's majority lust.

    If this proceeds, the talking points will be similar to the Bernier rebutal re Bill 101: "It is a strictly local matter and the CPC supports cities and local taxpayers across the country who make their own decisions. The funds involved belong to local authorities. The Harper government will not interfere in the choices made by their democratically elected municipal leaders."

    Well rubbed, gleaming deceit. Well played CPC.

    • LaxAtlDfwYow

      Also, none of us should be fooled into believing that this mechanism makes local governments accountable for their own spending decisions — ahem, Mr. Coyne. There are just too many ways for the Harper government to compensate QC and QCity for having to deploy gas tax funds to their NHL dream. How hard will it be to slip a little something extra into the tax harmonization bribe er.. compensation?

      Nah, this is the antithesis of local accountability for spending. This is outright deceit dressed up in a fiscally responsible little black dress.

    • danby

      I'm sure this could play out a number of different ways .

      • LaxAtlDfwYow

        Hummm… blow up in PMSH's face you say. Sadly, I think it will work exactly as they plan. No announcement of funding means it never "happened". QC represents electoral downside for the CPC. They need to not piss people off and just hold their existing block of seats. Those in QC paying attention to the arena issue will understand what they've been given. The vast majority elsewhere in the country will never hear of the issue again. LPC and NDP will just remain silent and gutless. Sadly for taxpayers, just another good days work for the CPC.

        I'm cynical that way.

    • Ray

      Once again, Canada's sqeakiest wheel (Quebec) is about to obtain Federal funding for a regional issue…similar to the Bloc having Federal standing while not holding any seats outside of Quebec…only in Canada, I mean Quebec, no I mean Canada, no I mean Q… who can tell…

      • Mike R

        But if the same rules apply across Canada, how is this a gift to Quebec? It may allow the people of Quebec City to acquire something they want (at the expense of other projects) but if that is what they want – and the people of Regina want to spend their tax money on, say, a monorail, then why should the federal government take a position on either matter?

        • Mark W

          You will see the Harper government try to 'soft-pedal' western aspirations to do the same. It may be through threats to cut back other funding sources, or to drop other projects (such as Edmonton's Expo '17 bid) or…

          The CPC counts on the support of its western sheeple, no matter what. For the last 30+ years, they have been proven right – why should THIS make any difference?

      • McC_

        "similar to the Bloc having Federal standing while not holding any seats outside of Quebec…only in Canada,"
        Sorry but Canada is not so special, look at the UK (SNP, Plaid Cymru, etc…), Spain (Basque Nationalist Party, the Catalan CiU, etc.), Belgium (Vlaams Block, etc.)… why the more you look, the more parliaments you find with parties representing just one region, sometimes even with seperatist ambitions, oh my!

  • burlivespipe

    Wonderful idea! Who would of thought that more Walkertons could recreate the jets and nordiques? "Honey, my gastroenteritis is acting up again — but how'd the Nordiques play last night?"

    And the CON trolls applaud from their toilet seats…

  • burlivespipe

    I think when you reference the Harper government and M. Peladeau you can remove the 'r' from 'friends'…

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ottawa_Centrist Ottawa_Centrist

    You cannot put a price tag on the cultural benefit of building such a facility in Québec City. To do so would be far too depressing.

    $500-million in public financing from at least two broke levels of government (and if QC isn't broke now, it will be shortly), maintenance costs likely to be picked up by at least one level of government and no intention from the NHL to move a team anywhere, let alone Canada.

    This has billion dollar boondoggle written all over it. No wonder Péladeau doesn't want to spend his own money on such an endeavour…

  • ZestyMordant

    What a great idea. The feds will let the city pay for the arena from the gas tax instead of infrastructure. Then two years down the road, once everyone forgets about this deal, the feds will help pay for the mounting infrastructure deficit.

    Harper is a master of using the shell game to buy votes with taxpayer money.

  • Stewart_Smith

    Harper is a brilliant politician and a lousy PM.

  • danby

    It's a wonder the airlines can get a plane off the ground, what with all the trial balloons filling the skies

  • brooster2

    In order for such a strategy to work politically (i.e., translate into seats around Quebec City, without the RoC raising hell), the Cons would have to resort to two message tracks.

    (In Quebec) "look at how we ponied up so you can get your NHL rink".

    (In RoC) "hey, that has nothing to do with us…it's the municipality's choice how it wants to spent its gas tax revenues, as long as they stay within [coincidentally recently revised] infrastructure policy".

    In the event, it doesn't matter how the Cons launder the funds or try to shift the apparent onus onto the municipality for making the commitment…it's still public money going into the construction of branded corporate playpens.

    And it still stinks.

    • Mark W

      And it is a brilliant way of having their electoral cake and eating it too…

      The message lines you mention are already worked out and ready to go.
      Of course, for the RoC, it will also be all "Ignatieff's fault"… (Michael Ignatieff doesn't want any more Canadian NHL teams, and wants Canadian arenas to close. Otherwise, he would support opening new NHL arenas! – something to this effect…)

      But hey, This also will help out Pelardeau, since the corporate tax cut thing wouldn't give him enough extra cash! It's a GOOD thing, right?

  • gottabesaid

    The money is from an infrastructure fund. There is essential infrastructure (roads, sewers and water treatment systems) and there is non-essential infrastructure (NHL hockey arenas for yet-to-be-secured NHL hockey teams). I know where I'd like my money to go.

    I mean, what good is an NHL arena (with no team) if you don't have the roads, sewers and water treatment systems to service it?

    This makes absolutely no sense. OH WAIT it's about votes. I forgot. That's how it makes sense. Votes.

    • Mike R

      But if the people of Quebec City decide this is "essential", despite your opinion to the contrary, what business is it of yours? Perhaps they consider the bicycle lanes currently infesting Vancouver to be "non-essential", but if so, what business is it of theirs?

      • gottabesaid

        Besides the fact I'm a Canadian taxpayer? None of my business at all. Obviously, the federal government made it their business by attaching strings on how that money should be used, and that it should be used for essential infrastructure, as defined by the federal government as roads, sewers and water treatment systems.

        • Mike R

          But the money was to pay for infrastructure locally – and it will be spent – in the same amount as would have happened anyway (this is, or course, all sheer speculation since the news report is based on the usual "unnamed sources). But if the program is changed to allow a broader definition of infrastructure it would be consistent with the general Conservative policy of removing federal interference with purely local decisions. Granted there is the risk, as noted below, that this may result in a shortfall of needed roads or sewers, followed by pleas for additional funding – but that is not a necessary consequence of this proposal.
          I expect much of the opposition to this notion comes from areas of the country that would be jealous of Quebec City getting an NHL team. Particularly cities like Toronto.

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            I expect much of the opposition to this notion comes from areas of the country that would be jealous of Quebec City getting an NHL team. Particularly cities like Toronto.

            The dig against the Leafs is good, but wouldn't the jealousy come less from the addition of a new NHL team and more from the fact that Toronto's NHL arena was built with private money?

          • gottabesaid

            I thought it was general Conservative policy not to flush money down the toilet, either. The record of taxpayer-funded arenas in North America has been abysmal. There's no reason to think it would be any different in Quebec City. Mind you, I'm as guilty as anybody for hollering at the Conservatives for even contemplating this waste… it's important to remember the Quebec government is even more vote hungry, er, eager to support this exciting NHL initiative to restore the Nordiques! Ditto the municipal government. But, none of that is my money, they can piss it away as they will. I'd rather the feds not try to blow my money as well, however.

      • brooster2

        The fact that the funds come from federal taxes to which I contribute makes it very much my business, and yours too. If the good burghers of Quebec City want to subsidize Peladeau's dream, more power to them, but they should do it on their own dime.

        And I say that somewhat regretfully because I'd love to see the Nords back.

        • McC_

          The gas tax doesn't really "redistribute" taxes the way you're suggesting, since it's distributed to municipalities on a per capita basis. It would be nice if (outside of equalization) government's levvied the taxes for their own requirements, but that's not the situation we've had in Canada for decades. Instead the higher levels of government tax more and distribute "surplus" funding down to the lower levels (Gas tax transfer, Canada health and social transfer, etc.), but because these taxes are collected from individuals and corps in various ways (income, sales, etc.) and then transferred back on a per capita basis it takes some pretty complicated math to show how they might redistribute *your* taxes to "the good burghers of Quebec City." Basically, it's just a case of giving Quebec city a slice of the federal taxes paid by Quebec Citizens (is that what they're called?).

          • brooster2

            Then, ditto for the good burghers of Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa and perhaps Halifax, (the last two being erstwhile CFL supplicants). IMO, the federal government should not be using its vast tax collecting and distribution powers to finance what are essentially private corporate playpens. Especially when the feds set the rules for such disbursements and use this power to engage in porkbarreling. In essence, the federal government is trying to buy the locals with their own money.

            If the funds are truly generated locally, then the feds should have NO say in how the local government chooses to dispose of them.

            Local arenas and stadia are essentially local civic cum corporate initiatives (not what I would regard as essential infrastructure installations) and, as such, should be financed by municipal debentures.

          • McC_

            no argument here from me.

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      Wouldn't they arguably get more votes by changing things so as to ensure that no NHL arena ever gets any tax dollars from any level of government ever?

      Do people in QUEBEC even want taxpayer money wasted like this?

      I agree that the only way this move makes any logical sense is if it's viewed as an attempt to buy votes, I'm just not sure anyone would sell their vote for this!

      • Mike R

        Why not let the people of Quebec City make that decision?

        • LdKitchenersOwn

          My only real problem with that is that I'm certain that if the taxpayers of Quebec choose to waste their portion of the federal gas tax money on this idiocy all that means is that a few years from now the federal government will establish some NEW program to funnel even more federal money to the provinces and municipalities to fix all of their broken down roads and failing water treatment plants.

          If I believed that lower levels of government would be forced to reap what they sow I might be more willing to let them choose what to plant. As it is, I'm certain that letting them choose to plant petunias instead of wheat is only going to lead to a new federal program created to airlift loaves of bread into Quebec.

          • Mike R

            There is always that risk – but that applied to the current arrangement, where any city may decide its special circumstances justify special spending – such as Vancouver's successful lobbying for the Canada Line (a raging success as it happens).

          • MostlyCivil

            "Why not let the people of Quebec City make that decision? "

            Indeed. Let them decide on a municipal tax hike. Masters in their own house, and all that.

        • dave

          Sure thing. ~1.5 million people in the area, $500M for an arena, $333 a person to get it built.

          Put out a municipal plebiscite within the local communities that make up that region and, if it wins, tack that bill onto their property taxes. Problem's solved.

          • Mike R

            Or let them allocate other tax revenue – such as the gasoline tax – to such a project. If it only re-allocates money which they were already going to receive, and they'd like to spend it on a stadium rather than a new bridge – why not let them?

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            My only objection, again, would be that somebody's still going to have to fix their roads and water systems, and I have a strange feeling it's going to be "us" not "them" paying that bill. It feels like a bait and switch. Use this money today for bread and circuses, because when bridges are falling down and people are dying from E. Coli we know the feds will find more money for us somewhere, 'cause that will be a REAL crisis.

            It's the same kind of thing that drives me crazy about Quebec's receipt of equalization payments. Because Quebeckers decide how to spend their funds as they see fit they get things like half priced McGill tuition and $7 a day daycare, but we still send them payments supposedly meant to keep their already superior social services "equal" to those in the rest of Canada. It may not be an accurate impression, but I think a lot of people in the ROC believe we're ALREADY paying Quebeckers to ensure that they can enjoy a higher standard of living than the rest of us, so when we hear that they might want to spend money on X instead of Y, we don't assume that Y's not going to happen, we just presume that the ROC is going to pay for it.

          • dave

            Because, as LK points out, someone is still going to have to pay for the "new bridge" so it's just a shell game.

            We need to stop sitting here demanding someone else pay for things we want, not need, and start having the wherewithal to sit down and pay for it ourselves if it's something we truly believe we want in our community. All this: "we need money from X/Y/Z" posturing does is see to it that nothing gets done but bluster by all parties involved and feed the "we need to get some 'event' so they'll pay for it!!!" machine that drives urban redevelopment planning in municipal politics here. US Cities levy "temporary" taxes to pay for this stuff all the time but, as it stands, Canadian ones would rather cry poor and beg upwards than risk driving their own agenda independent of a safety net or being run out on a rail for merely suggesting to the public that they pay for it themselves and it get done.

          • McC_

            Our cities don't really have the power to levy temporary taxes except on the property tax base (Vancouver's Translink is an exception, it can levy it's own gas taxes to pay for regional transportation infrastrcuture/services) otherwise they can either use fees or must ask the higher levels of government for shares of things like the gas taxes or transfers from general revenues. Our fiscal federalism is broken, but the debate over "fiscal imballance" between the provinces and the feds was wrong, the problem is municipalities' ability to raise funds.

            One of Paul Martin's too many priorities was a "new deal for cities and communities" that promised to address this somewhat, and it is one of the few aspects of his platform that I really regret seeing wiped from the agenda in 2006.

          • dave

            I believe Ontario has resolved this somewhat for, at least, Toronto allowing them freedom to toll roads, add taxes to existing taxes (hence, the "hated" car tax tacked onto license plate renewal fees that was just eliminated), and similar. I don't see why other provinces can't do the same without federal interference.

  • Sebastien

    The Colisée Pepsi was built in 1949, it's falling apart and it's now more costly to maintain it instead of financing a new arena. This have been clearly stated by the Quebec City mayor. The old Colisée is always sold out when the Quebec Remparts plays and it's also used for hosting shows and different international events. Quebec city NEED to replace his current arena, otherwise where are they gonna held all these events? Some people might think this is only for a NHL team, but they don't understand that the capital city of the province of Quebec need that infrastructure since the old colisée have to be replaced. Don't think of it as just "spending" money. The government is INVESTING in the project, this mean they will get their money back from the private companies who will use the infrastructure to host events. Quebec government knows that this is good to get quebecers votes and that the project is of high monetary value in the long run. Anyone doubt that the arena will consistently sold out if a NHL team to Quebec City?

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      I can't find a good answer to this Sebastien, but maybe you know. Do you know if the Colisée received any taxpayer funding for its original construction?

      • MostlyCivil

        Or, they can just hollow out the convention centre downtown and build a rink there. There's no actual stores or businesses there, the theatres have closed and it's a 2 minute walk from the National Assembly.They could probably put a nice 10,000 seat rink there for a quarter of the cost, ad there's already a hotel attached.

        Since the original was built in 1950, I'm going to have to assume there was government money put into it.

        • Mike R

          You'll need more than 10,000 seats to get an NHL team – 20-25,000 is more like it – with the appropriate "skyboxes". But a downtown location for a stadium is a good idea – far better than lcations such as Ottawa's arena.

    • madeyoulook

      Sebastien a dit: The government is INVESTING in the project, this mean they will get their money back from the private companies who will use the infrastructure to host events.
      Jean Charest a dit: Quebec Premier Jean Charest said a feasibility study for an NHL-sized 18,000-seat arena showed it would be profitable, but only if the construction costs are entirely paid by public funds.
      http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/08/for-those-cons…

      Hey Seb, if the builder was actually gonna profit from building the thing, companies would be lining up to build it themselves. No takers without taxpayer risk exposure, eh? Gee, I wonder why that is…

      • LdKitchenersOwn

        it would be profitable, but only if the construction costs are entirely paid by public funds

        You'd be shocked at how many things can be found to be potentially "profitable" using this caveat.

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    In this case the new Colosee would not exist solely for the benefit of a new NHL team – any more than BC Place or Rogers Arena exist solely for the BC Lions or the Canucks. But those anchor tenants provide a viable financial basis for the common gathering places for the citizens of the city.

    I'm not sure that BC Place and Rogers Arena are the best examples to use here. Rogers Arena is owned by the Canucks, who also paid to build it privately. BC Place has public money in it of course, as it was built for the World's Fair (Expo '86) and to help attract an MLB team. Expo had already been awarded, so there was an existing need for a stadium of that size, but the whole "if you build it your sports franchise will come" angle went pretty badly. As far as I know Vancouver still doesn't have a Major League Baseball team over 25 years later.

    So, your two examples are a stadium that was built without public money, and a stadium that failed in it's efforts to attract a new professional sports franchise to the city. Hardly inspiring examples for Quebec's bid for federal funding.

    • Mike R

      Rogers Arena may have been built with private money, but BC Place was built with public money and is being re-built at a cost of some $500 million, again with public money. It wasn't built exclusively for either Expo, or a purported baseball team – nor is the re-build being done for that ( the Whitecaps and Lions are the primary sports users of the facility). I doubt there are many people in Vancouver (there will always be a few) who think the city would have been better off over the last 25 years without a stadium. Major cities have public spaces as part of their essential infrastructure – the theatres, public squares, convention centres and stadia are what define cities. Some are built with private money, but others are often built with public funds. The plans for a new Colosee in Quebec City may or may not be a good idea – but the choice of a public space as a public infrastructure project is not an irrational one.

      • LdKitchenersOwn

        I doubt there are many people in Vancouver (there will always be a few) who think the city would have been better off over the last 25 years without a stadium

        I doubt there are very many people who feel that Toronto would have been better off without the Rogers Centre all this time either. Pretty much EVERYONE agrees that we shouldn't have wasted all of that public money on it though.

        • Mike R

          It is like taxes though – ask anyone about whether they like any individual tax, income, HST, excise, etc. and they will almost always say no. Ask them if they would like to go without the things taxes buy – hospitals, schools, roads, etc and they will also say no. People aren't very consistent about such things.
          That doesn't mean that it is wrong for governments to choose to build things like stadia, theatres, parks etc. It doesn't mean they should fall for every developers pitch for new infrastructure ("Monorail!") but it doesn't mean such buildings are a bad idea. I think Vancouver is better off in the long run because we have spaces such as BC Place and the convention centre – which wouldn't have been built but for public money. Quebec City may be better off with a new arena and a hockey team (certainly it would improve the NHL to get the team out of Phoenix). It is not an irrational thing for a government to spend money on.

  • Mike R

    Fair enough, but there are always new versions of "building Canada" – there are always new projects funded by the federal government, doing things that on general principles are provincial or municipal in nature – because of the federal ability to raise revenue. Whether or not that is a good thing in principle, it certainly isn't a new idea in practice – and letting municipalities spend their share of the gasoline tax on whatever they want is not a big break from previous practice.

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    I'd be curious to see a list of stadiums that were built with public money, and a list of stadiums that were entirely privately funded, to see if any pattern emerges.

    When I think about the stadiums I know best in Montreal and Toronto it's the Skydome, the Big O, the Bell Centre, and the ACC. I'm under the impression that the Bell Centre and the ACC (privately built) are raking in money hand over fist. The Skydome and Stade Olympique, meanwhile, were two of the biggest white elephants in the history of those cities. I'd love to see a comprehensive list to see if the pattern continues or if those examples are just anomalies.

  • http://www.propertytaxfunding.com/ Texas Tax Loans

    The "Deathstar" as we call in Texas, otherwise know as "Jerryworld" was funded by a combination of city and Jerry's money. Dallas could have stepped up and funded part of the stadium and would have seen long lasting economic benefit, but the city leaders at the time were opposed to publice money funding. We make property tax loans, so we know all about sky high property taxes in Texas.

  • http://twitter.com/RamaraMan @RamaraMan

    Your local council can't be trusted to invest their Federal Gas Tax windfall prudently, that's why these current restrictions were implemented. If the Harper government were to loosen these restrictions every municipality in the dominion will have a spanking new multi-sports-plex, but the streets would be overflowing with septage from the crumbling sewer lines!

    • McC_

      so much for local democracy and responsibility.

  • EeeOar

    The current rules around what the gas tax can be spent on, and what qualifies as infrastructure and so on seem perfectly fine the way they are – just leave them alone.

    If implemented, the idea of allowing more flexibility regarding what qualifies as infrastructure will only have the net effect of muddifying the financial balance sheet associated with building arenas, when we should always be trying to clarify such things.

  • brooster2

    Since this story comes to us via the omnipresent, ever-reliable, rarely identified "sources", one wonders if it isn't merely a trial balloon which the government is releasing just to see how the winds blow it.

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    Sure, but how many balloons need to get blown out of the sky before the government stops sending them up?

  • brooster2

    Anybody's guess. Maybe they'll keep launching them until one actually lives long enough to disappear over the horizon. Meantime, good targets for us to shoot at. Keep your slingshot handy.

  • Holly Stick

    Maybe we should be aiming for the people on the ground who are launching the things.

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