Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Ask the expert

by Aaron Wherry on Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:44am - 19 Comments

Surely the Canadian Federation of Independent Business’ moment of universal respect and deference must not pass without noting its opinion on the elimination of the long-form census.

CFIB is highly experienced in the design and conduct of surveys, relying on them to form accurate pictures of the small- and mid-sized business community. We therefore understand the strengths and weaknesses of voluntary questionnaires, managing response burden and dealing with sensitive subject matter. Because of our experience with authoring surveys and with purchasing Census long-form data, CFIB has grave concerns about how your proposed changes could diminish data quality and harm comparability with previous Census years.

Tags: Canadian Federation of Independent Business, census, CFIB, long-form census, Tony Clement

More by Aaron Wherry

gottabesaid

I think this was one of those instances where this 'stakeholder' drifted into 'special interest group' territory.
canon70

This opinion isn't supportive of the government's position so it's neither expert nor worthy of being shared by Mr. Poilievre.
MostlyCivil

I'm guessing nobody asked about the census when they had the CFIB on the phone.

Now, if only they could exercise that kind of speed and focus on the task to actually bring forward some of those law and order bills. Again.

TimesArrow

" Thankyou Catherine, so to confirm you are for CIT cuts? – Poilievre

"Yes Pierre, most emphatically.Since i have you on the line I would however like to raise the small matter of the LF census. We're concerned…" -CFIB Prez.

" Gotta go Catherine…busy busy"…click! – Poilevre

sourstud

So, the CFIB is for corporate tax cuts, and they're ridiculed. But when they're against the census changes, they're revered. This was far too predictable.

briguyhfx

I believe you just said the same thing as Wherry. The CFIB's opinions are THE WORD! Please ignore that CFIB rabble; they are a dreaded special interest group!
tedbetts

Um, could you please show me where the CFIB has been ridiculed?

And while you are looking for that, would you mind getting a broom. There seems to be a whole heck of a lot of straw around here for some reason.
LdKitchenersOwn

So, the CFIB is for corporate tax cuts, and they're ridiculed. But when they're against the census changes, they're revered.

You've got it reversed. The government is revering them for the corporate tax cut stand and ridiculing their stand against the census changes.

lgarvin

I don't think ignoring an opinion is the same thing as ridiculing that opinion.

Have the Cons been ridiculing the CFIB position on the census?

LdKitchenersOwn

OF COURSE they have. Perhaps they haven't been ridiculing the CFIB specifically for holding said position, but the position has been thoroughly mocked by this government repeatedly.

Besides, frankly, the notion that the Harper government wouldn't mock the CFIB for holding the same position as they're mocking other groups for holding wouldn't actually make me think better of the government. Using the CFIB to bolster their argument on point X while ignoring the CFIB's contrary position on point Y (presumably so as not to damage their credibility on point X by ridiculing them on point Y) is actually WORSE imho, than lauding them for the position the government agrees with while slamming them for the position they disagree with.

brooster2

Mr. Wherry, I believe this is an example of your setting the allegorical cat amongst the pigeons.
Anon

Always interesting on which posts the Tory trolls tend to keep quiet…
Matlock

Um… isn't that exactly what Harper just did?

How….. "Conservative".

Harper says CFIB is credible on corporate tax cuts, but the CFIB is out to lunch on the long-form census?

Well, which is it? Is the CFIB credible in the eyes of the Tories?

lgarvin

So if you agree with someone on one topic, then your agreement on all topics should be absolute, right? It's either lockstep agreement, all down the line, or you're found guilty of the heinous crime of thinking independantly,.

Matlock

Among reasonable people, who attack ideas and not people, I agree entirely with your point.

But the M.O. of Conservatives and most of their supporters on these boards (especially chiff) has always been to launch ad hominem attacks… well, ad nauseam. They debate people, not ideas. Confined within that framework, I'd think my above point to be entirely valid.
LdKitchenersOwn

I don't think anyone's saying that if the government agrees with CFIB on X they have to also agree with CFIB on Y, that's not the point. The point is that most OTHER groups that disagreed with the Tories on the census decision were mocked constantly (and, frankly, given Minister Clement's birthday party are STILL being mocked). How am I supposed to agree with the CFIB on corporate tax cuts when, according to the government's own logic, the CFIB's position on the census means they're just an elitist special interest group trying to fool Canadian taxpayers into paying for their research for them???

I think the point is that to be consistent the Tories should treat the CFIB the same way they treated other groups who disagreed with their census decision, but they can't, 'cause that would undermine their credibility on the corporate tax cuts. The inconsistency of agreeing with the CFIB on X, but not agreeing with them on Y is fine. The inconsistency of roundly ridiculing groups for disagreeing with the census decision while (apparently) staying relatively mum about the CFIB's agreement with those mocked groups probably isn't.

lgarvin

But the CFIB is a special interest group, by definition. They represent the interests of business owners, not the public interest. They are in favour of lower corporate taxes – for their own benefit… and they are in favour of the government providing them marketing data – for their own benefit.

The difference between the two positions is nothing remarkable. The government agrees with them in the first instance and disagrees with them in the second instance.

I don't really see this horrible mockery that you keep asserting but perhaps I'm just not paying that much attention.

LdKitchenersOwn

Sure, the CFIB is a "special interest group" I just don't like how that label is used to dismiss the opinions of groups when the government disagrees with them, while the very same type of group doesn't seem to be a problem when the government agrees with them. I'd say it's pretty clear that "special interest group" is code for "elitist snobs who are only in it for themselves". Which is fine, except that the Tories lump people in to that category when it's convenient, and leave them out when it's not.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Tories aren't labeling all of the groups that agree with them on corporate tax cuts as "special interest groups". I'd say they're more likely to describe THOSE groups as "knowledgeable experts in the field" (except for the fact that we know how the Tories feel about knowledgeable experts, so that doesn't work either!).

LdKitchenersOwn

I do love how often these days it seems that conservative commenters are mocking "progressives" for doing the same thing as the Tory government JUST DID! It's even happening when the "progressives" in question are emulating the Tories rhetorically for deliberate ironic effect.

Have the Tories spent so much time doing things they used to swear they'd never do that even their supporters can't tell if they're coming or going anymore?