Get me a job—or give me my money back

Should schools be in the business of turning out employable grads?

by Kate Lunau on Monday, February 28, 2011 9:54am - 51 Comments
Get me a job - or give me my money back

Photograph by Andrew Tolson

Carlie Deneiko is from the tiny town of Watrous, Sask. (population 1,800), more than an hour’s drive southeast of Saskatoon. As a teen, she dreamed of travelling the world, but her priorities are shifting. “I’ve got a boyfriend, and I’m really settled,” says Deneiko, 20, a student in the faculty of education at the University of Regina. “It’s becoming more important to me to get a job.”

Deneiko’s not too worried: her education comes with a job guarantee. She’s one of 355 students enrolled in a new program at the University of Regina that promises students they’ll land a job—in their chosen field—within six months of graduation. If they don’t, the university gives them another year of tuition for free. The UR Guarantee has other bells and whistles (like internships and work programs), but for Deneiko, it’s that extra year of free tuition that pulled her in. “If I don’t get a job, I’m coming back to get my special education certificate,” she says.

Since it launched in September, the UR Guarantee has been incredibly popular. Enrolment in the program, which is open to all first-year students, has already jumped by 24 per cent, says president Vianne Timmons. “We looked at students’ motivation for attending university,” she says, “and realized they’re looking at a degree primarily as a launching pad for a career.”

Universities have long been seen as ivory towers, leaving job training to colleges and vocational programs, but that’s changing fast. “It’s not the old, green college on the hill anymore,” says Lloyd Axworthy, president of the University of Winnipeg. “The marketplace has changed,” adds Ronald Bordessa, president of the University of Ontario Institute of Technology (UOIT). “Some universities have moved quickly. Others haven’t, and are having greater difficulty attracting students.”

Regina isn’t the only university in the job guarantee business—tiny Sainte-Anne in Church Point, N.S., offers its education and business graduates free tuition if they haven’t found work after four months. It’s a radical approach—but some schools don’t even track how many graduates go on to get jobs in their field. Monitoring this is “absolutely critical,” says University of Alberta president Indira Samarasekera. “If your students are not finding employment, it means that employers are not finding them competitive.” Even so, it’s hard to know which schools are turning out the most employable grads, which leaves some industry leaders shaking their heads. “Amazingly enough, [employability] is not the metric for success that universities follow,” says businessman Reza Satchu, who teaches the highly successful economics of entrepreneurship course at the University of Toronto.

Last year, 12,500 students were asked: “What was the single most important reason in your decision to attend university?” by the Canadian University Survey Consortium (CUSC). Nine per cent wanted “a good general education.” Nearly 70 per cent had enrolled to “get a good job” or “train for a specific career.” Will university students start demanding their education give them a clear path to a job? And, just as importantly, should they?

Jack Lightstone, the president of Brock University in St. Catharines, Ont., says parents of students often ask him, “What job will my son or daughter get if they take this degree?” It’s a reasonable question. “There was a time when relatively few people went to university, and believe me, it wasn’t all that long ago,” he says. Back then, he adds, there were many jobs to be had without a university education. “It’s a good thing that more people go to university,” he says. “But there’s a whole different attitude as a result.”

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  • TSmith

    This is a story about etymology more than anything. Some universities have become vocational colleges, but have not changed the names of their institutions. It's not a massive cultural shift or s restructuring of priorities or a change in the market. It's universities experimenting with an age-old, tried and tested business model. They're becoming colleges.

    And good on them. The world needs a lot more craftspeople and a lot less artists.

    • http://dougsamu.wordpress.com dougrogers

      Quite a reasonable position until the abuse and insult in the last sentence.

    • James

      Actually, it's 'fewer artists'. Clearly language, for one, is a craft and an art. There's no need to make false opposition between the two. The world needs more well rounded individuals.

    • Thwim

      So says the puritan. Those of the enlightenment would tend to differ.

    • eric

      VERY TRUE to dam many Thinker's whatever that is? not enough doers like me, who is a carpenter.

  • http://exploring-life.ca Brian Alger

    If a particular school or a department within a school develops a mandate wishes to offer a money-back guarantee on employment then they are free to do so. Should schools (I understand this to mean "all" schools) be exclusively in the business of turning out (nothing but) employable grads – I hope not. In many cases, preparation for “the workforce” doesn’t require four years of university.

    More importantly, I think it is essential for universities to reach beyond mandates that are tied too closely to promises of employment, and maintain a focus on intellectual and scholarly development. Schools more oriented toward vocational expertise are valuable too – we need both. It is very important for prospective students to have a clear understanding of what the education they are considering is designed to do before making a final choice.

  • OriginalEmily1

    There are two major mistakes being made here.

    Education is a process, not a commodity you can purchase…like socks.

    A bachelor's degree is now minimum entry level, like high school used to be. High school didn't train you for a job then either.

    If you want a good job, you have to go further than a bachelor's degree.

    Or just give it up and go to trade school.

    But we shouldn't be comparing one to the other.

    • eric

      And why not? I did a four year course and a 6 month RED SEAL course to get my DEGREE[ticket] explain what the difference really is, except the fact that I can actually do something useful and people with degrees want to make 5 times my income??.

      • OriginalEmily1

        The two aren't comparable that's why.

        You learned a specific skill for an immediate job, you need to know only that one skill to graduate, whereas professions need further education requiring degree levels up to and beyond a PhD.

        We find doctors, lawyers, physicists, architects, chemists, professors etc quite useful too. They need a wider range of knowledge than a trade, and are paid accordingly.

        • cobra

          immediate job my ass, as a tradesperson I also have to keep upgrading my education to stay current. Your problem Emily 1 is that you have no common sense and no idea what is required to become a tradesperson.

          • OriginalEmily1

            Nothing wrong with having a trade….but it isn't comparable to a university degree.

          • cobra

            enlighten us

          • OriginalEmily1

            I have no idea what you're even arguing about much less what 'enlightening' you want.

            It takes far more time and study and money to become a surgeon than it does to become a bricklayer.

            Same for a physicist rather than a plumber or a professor rather than an electrician. All this is obvious.

            So are you arguing for guaranteed jobs for physicists, or that a plumber should be paid as much as a surgeon?

          • Ellie

            i think they are defining "good job" differently than you my dear. but good job being an elitist.

          • OriginalEmily1

            If it's a good job for them, then it's a good job by definition.

            However this thread is about colleges and universities, and they're not comparable, so save the patronizing for someone else.

  • EvInOz

    I agree, it shouldn't be up to an educational institution to guarantee jobs, they should be there to give you an education. If you can't find a job using your own merit, why should the university be liable? If someone took this teaching course and just barely passes, should they get the same guarantee as someone who excels and gets straight A marks? It is a terrible idea, and other universities should be careful about giving the same guarantees.

    • eric

      Merit? so you regurgitated the facts more eloquently, so you get to pass GO!!! and collect $200 dollars because the teacher liked you???

  • JamesHalifax

    OriginalEmily1 noted:
    “If you want a good job, you have to go further than a bachelor’s degree.

    Or just give it up and go to trade school.

    But we shouldn’t be comparing one to the other.”

    That’s right Emily…….because everyone knows that people who work in the trades are less worthy than those with a University degree. By the way…….have you ever thought of the men who built your house or apartment? Who put in your toilet…who ran your wires…who finished your walls?

    You’re right, we shouldn’t compare one to the other.

    You, and every other Canadian out there can live without a Comparative Literature, or Arts degree. No one can live long without a house.

    Your arrogance is a testiment to your Liberal credentials. Well done.

    • Healthcare Insider

      JamesHalifax, I think you are being overly sensitive. Emily didn't say anything negative about trade school or people who go into trades.

      • Guest2

        I think it was the wording "just give it up and go to trade school" that could be read as trade school being a second choice or a last resort. Maybe it's not what Emily intended but that's how it came across to me at first glance.

        • Keith in Brampton

          It could be read as "good job = post-grad studies OR trade school".

          Probably not what she meant, but I'll give her the bemefit of doubt.

          • Keith in Brampton

            Make that "benefit"

  • JamesHalifax

    By the way, Emily…….the average plumber makes over $100,000 per year.

    Just so you know.

    • Healthcare Insider

      Where does the average plumber make over $100,000 per year and how many hours a week is this average plumber working?

    • OriginalEmily1

      I've heard about this mythical plumber since I was a kid…never found one.

      However, professors can make over 300K, and CEOs make millions.

      • Healthcare Insider

        Yes, the CEO's from the auto industries that come in private jets to beg for government bail-outs.

        • Healthcare Insider

          Then there are the professors….didn't Macleans online do an article not to long ago about lack of tenure, people hardly being able to make a living at it, no job security…..

          • Healthcare Insider

            Then there are the people who are making big money who have never even made it through high school. The richest CEO Bill Gates was a university dropout.

          • OriginalEmily1

            Yes, the CEOs from the Big 3 arrived in private jets….the current ones are trying to stop a trade deal we're working on.

            Some professors can't get tenure…which is an effort to get rid of tenure…but most profs are well paid. Have to be these days or other unis will scarf them.

            Bill Gates graduated from a private prep school…it was Harvard he left in order to start Microsoft.

            But what all this has to do with our colleges and universities I don't know.

          • Thwim

            And there's a reason we often hear about these wunderkinds who manage to make millions without post-secondary… they're exceedingly rare.

            It's like how we hear about airplane crashes but not car crashes. Doesn't mean that car crashes are less frequent, just less newsworthy.

  • Healthcare Insider

    There are many different programs offered at universities. Some are more vocational in nature. You can expect to get a job when you graduate with your occupational therapy degree, teaching degree, nursing degree and physio therapy degree. Receiving a bachelors degree in some of the other programs, such as psychology, arts, sociology, anthropology and women's studies is not going to get you a job in those fields. You need to continue on in school and get a second and possibly a third degree.

    • McC_

      or take the transferrable skills learned/honed in obtaining that BA (reading, writing, research, analysis, management of large/complex projects over a specific timeline, management of multiple priorities, timeliness, creativity, curiosity, etc. etc.) and use them to find a job — or better yet, create a new job* — in any number of fields.

      * elsewhere in this same space: http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/03/02/do-it-yourself…

  • University Grad

    The challenge is to look at what we define as education. Are Universities considered academic insitutions focussing on the pursuit of knowledge (old model) or a place to train students for employment. I hope that we are able to continue to offer academic freedom to Universities and students!

  • JamesHalifax

    HealthcareInsider
    Actually, Emily's comment is clearly that of a snob. "If you want a good job, you have to go further than a bachelor's degree. Or just give it up and go to trade school. " She says that a job in the trades is not a good job, followed by the comment that people who do choose a trade, are in that profession because they have given up.

    • Thwim

      That's your reading. An alternative reading could be that she's slagging the bachelor's degree, saying that if you want a good job, you need to go beyond a bachelor's degree, or simply give up on any sort of degree and go to trade school.

      Personally, I disagree with both interpretations, but it is what it is.

  • JamesHalifax

    she never considers that some people who have the capacity to earn a degree…..choose to become a plumber instead.
    As for $100K a year….almost all qualified plumbers make that much in a year outside of a recession. Remember, their rates vary between $65 to $135 per hour. The more demand…the higher the rate. Try getting a plumber in vancouver, Toronto, or and expensive city like Victoria BC. They ain't cheap.

    • Guest

      That's not what she said. Quit being bitter and put your biases aside. Trade school is to prepare you for a certain job. University is to provide you with an education. An education is a certain understanding of the world and your place in it. It's something that does not guarantee a certain job. It is not comparable to trade school where you simply learn how to work a trade.

      • eric

        "A certain understanding of the world and your place in it" what does that mean?? Maybe that you are at the top and the rest of us are you servants?

        • Halo_Override

          I have met carpenters who understand what that sentence means.

          • Healthcare Insider

            Yes you are right Halo_Override, a person's formal level of education and a person's level of intelligence should never be confused.

          • E Nough

            Wrong….I will listen to a plumber when they tell me how to fix a leak….
            I put very litle credence into what they may say about education policy, political discouse, the state of the economy, social problem facing society, etc …unless of course they are EDUCATED PLUMBERS!

          • Keith in Brampton

            I know high school dropouts in several fields who are far more intelligent and informed than some people I know with university degrees. Insider is right; don't confuse the two.

            Emily / Guest are also correct; there is a fundamental difference between the two types of schools. That's not to say one is better or worse than another. I looked at both types and ended up in university in part BECAUSE I didn't know what I wanted to do; it gave me a broader base of knowledge that I would not have gotten from a college. I have two degrees – a general BA, and a job-oriented B.Ed. As I gave up teaching after a very short career, the BA has proven the more valuable to me – but it was definitely NOT "job training", nor should it be.

          • JamesHalifax

            Halo_Overide noted:
            " have met carpenters who understand what that sentence means. "

            Good…..please introduce him to Emily.

      • JamesHalifax

        Guest:

        There is nothing bitter about my comment. I was pointing out Emily's bias…..not mine. As for University providing an education…hmm……..I know plenty of folks who are very well educated who don't have a University degree…and some of them are plumbers, electrictians, or drywallers.

  • E Nough

    To: JamesHalifax…
    The reality is no one in their right mind who has the capacity and brains and financial resources to become a professional via a university degree would decide that they would rather stick thier hands in toilets all day…give your head a shake.
    I work in engineering as a technologist not as engineer, BUT I realize that I don't have a degree but a diploma, I understand at 51 years of age and working for 30 years that education is most important and that trades are not degrees. Plumbers are skilled at making pipe joints they do not have the knowledge and skills that University graduates do. That why they hire trades people..it is not what they do.

    • taxslave

      Thats because most university grads are totally incompetent to do anything for themselves.

      • Thwim

        Which is why they end up being the management for folks like you more often than not.

        • JamesHalifax

          Thwin preached"
          "Which is why they end up being the management for folks like you more often than not. "

          Thereby proving his Liberal credentials.
          That's right Thwim, those filthy, uneducated peasents need someone of your calibre to oversee their menial labours.

          • Thwim

            Wow. I was just pointing out the fact that people with higher education tend to become management over those without.

            Pretty sad you think people without an education are filthy, uneducated peasents. I mean, just because you happen to be that way doesn't mean you should lump everybody else in there. There's some decent people who haven't gone further with their education. Personally, I'm rather disgusted that you think you can insult them all freely.

    • JamesHalifax

      Actually, there are people exactly like that working as tradesmen today. Having the capacity to do something does not mean you will choose to do it.
      Lastly, you do realize that you are one of those folks who Emily says have "given up"……..as you do not have a Degree to hang on the wall. I'm sure in Emily's mind….you're diploma is just as menial as an electicians ticket.

  • taxslave

    Of course universities should turn out graduates that are employable. Thats what they get so much of the poor taxpayers money for. While engineers and doctors are fine after grad, most liberal arts majors as well as a lot of the more obscure programs would still need three days of training to pump gas at a self serve.

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