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 Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Another RCMP investigation

by Aaron Wherry on Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:59am - 65 Comments

As a result of APTN’s reporting, the Prime Minister’s Office has asked the RCMP to investigate the actions of Bruce Carson, a former senior advisor in the PMO.

In one email, obtained by APTN, Carson wrote two officials with the company, H2O Pros, claiming he had spoken with the prime minister on Aug. 5 about the pending appointment of Duncan to the Indian Affairs portfolio. “I spoke with the PM last nite and with (Assembly of First Nations national Chief Shawn) Atleo-the movement of John Duncan to INAC does not slow anything down (sic),” wrote Carson, in an email dated Aug. 6 and received at 7:01 a.m. “Both Shawn and I know John very well-and I will be calling the new Minister this morning-so it is still full steam ahead.”

Carson told APTN on camera that he lied in the email, but that he had spoken to “someone,” but did not elaborate.

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  • gottabesaid

    Kudos to the PMO for doing the right thing here and calling in the RCMP to have a look-see.

    • evenflow

      Please, what choice did they have? Wait for APTN to break the story first and then react?

      This is nothing more than damage control, kudos are not deserved.

    • Reverend_Blair

      Except they waited until a news story was about to break and calling in the RCMP was nothing more than damage control.

      • Thwim

        However, it is possible that they simply didn't know until APTN approached them.

        I always try to assume ignorance before malice. This strikes me as it could simply be that.

        • Reverend_Blair

          I simply don't buy that. He'd worked in the PMO, he'd worked for at least one minister. He'd been kicking around Conservative circles for at least a couple of decades. When he started lobbying somebody should have said, "Hey, hold on a second there Bubbalooee." They waited until they were caught, then shifted into damage control mode.

          • Thwim

            Would you see it as lobbying though? I mean, I doubt he'd be telling people, "Look, I'm gonna get a kickback from this company if we use them," he could have been going, "We need to do something to make sure the aboriginals have fresh water. I've heard about this company that can do something about that…"

          • brooster2

            How is that not lobbying?

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            It's lobbying if they paid him to say it, it's not if they didn't. Thwim's point was simply, I believe, that someone could hear that sentence spoken and not automatically come to the conclusion that the speaker was working for the company that he's mentioning he's "heard about".

          • brooster2

            So, if the salient point in the matter was whether or not he received a retainer from the company on whose behalf he was using his connections, then that's what an RCMP investigation needs to determine.

            So, at the very least, it has the appearance of being lobbying activity, which is why I challenged Thwim's comment

          • Thwim

            And I'm not saying at all that there shouldn't be an investigation. But I can see it as entirely reasonable that none of the people there at the time thought of it as lobbying until APTN came around and started asking questions. At which point two and two click together and they're like.. "Oh crap..'

          • brooster2

            And I suspect that will be their defense. And Carson, for one, ought to have known better.

          • Thwim

            Well assumption of ignorance only goes so far. In Carson's case, it'd have to be pretty damned ignorant.. so that suggests malice.. which suggests he did what he's being accused of.

          • pdpd

            I dunno – whenever people are chatting about a general issue and then a specific company comes up for fulfilling a contract, it's usually fair and expected to at least think ".does that guy there who brought them up have a reason for bringing them up?" It would be really weird for a bunch of high level staffers to start discussing individual smallish companies and individual contracts on a pure "lets solve this problem" sort of level.

            But this brings up a larger issue I'm fuzzy on – what's the problem here? What's the crime, or lapse? Is it that he's not registered? Or maybe that he's registered, but that he didn't declare his meeting with the big guy? Or that he lied to his clients?

    • pulsar

      Actually, the main reason for calling RCMP has nothing to do with ethics, transparency etc. This is the move to minimize the amount of damning information released by the media, the excuse being "it's now under RCMP investigation". This is all about timing – election campaign will start in the next 1-2 weeks, and typical RCMP investigations last months. Harper did this before.

  • OriginalEmily1

    I've never seen a govt so investigated by the RCMP. Wadda crowd!

    • Crit_Reasoning

      How many RCMP investigations have there been? Carson, Guergis… please remind me about the other investigations.

  • Mike T.

    if only he'd apply this standard to other cases of wrongdoing in the CPC.

  • http://twitter.com/TheHarperGov TheHarperGov

    On the record comments by the Prime Minister's Communications Director regarding APTN's story on Bruce Carson

    "The Prime Minister has never met with, been spoken to or been lobbied by Bruce Carson on any of these matters".
    ———–

    That said, The Harper Government double dog dares you to find out with whom Mr. Carson did speak. Ooops, sorry, it's in the hands of the RCMP. We really, really want to tell you but we just can't until after the unnecessary election.

    • http://twitter.com/TheHarperGov TheHarperGov

      P.S. THe Harper Government is also *tear* deeply saddened that we cannot tell you if Mr. Carson lobbied the PMO on anything other than "…any of these matters"

      You'll just have to wait. Too bad, so sad.

    • criselis

      But if you ask the correct secret password protected question you will be told what the PM and Carson did speak about. But each answer will consist of only one sentence and multiple talking points. You will need a new correct secret password protected question to get another sentence and multiple talking points.

  • canon70

    A scandal a day keeps the voters away.

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      Sadly, it doesn't appear that that will necessarily end up being true.

  • McC_

    don't the cops have more serious offences they could be investigating?

  • John D

    Well, is my face red. It looks like the PMO was right when they said we'll need bigger prisons…

    • Skinny Dipper

      Ah, the Harper wing at the Harper Penal Colony. I wonder how many Conservative supporters will reside there.

      • Patchouli

        Harper Penal Colony — will they 'renew' or 'stimulate' PEI to be that colony? After all, one of his former ministers called it a hellhole, right?

        Or Baffin Island — perhaps convicts could be made to help keep sovereignty over the Arctic for us.

    • Thwim

      Oh come on.. there 308 of them at most. Surely our prisons can handle that.

      • Holly Stick

        What about all the assistants they keep around for throwing under buses?

        • McC_

          what would happen if Ottawa ever implements rail-based transit? there'd be so many fewer buses around under which to throw staffers… Why we might have to come up with a snappy new term for their honourable sacrifice, "Run into the Rideau" ? "Cast in the Canal" ?

  • Amateur Hour

    While channel surfing, I often find myself stopping at APTN, and frequently it's a news item that stops me. They actually have some decent programing (including international docs) and I've seen quite a few news stories where a living, breathing reporter sticks a microphone in the face of a politician or official … and actually asks follow-up questions!

    • pdpd

      Yeah, they really do. I remember a panel last year with an APTN host, an NDP MP, and a Conservative MP/spokesperson on the issue of drugs and law enforcement – the result was a bloodbath. All it required was interrogating the premises of talking points, and it was compelling stuff (and, yes, even the NDP MP got roughed up a bit).

  • Richard_S_Argent

    It must get tiring always having to defend these guys…

    • Mike T.

      ADSCAM!

      • Richard_S_Argent

        Soldiers in the Streets! We're Not Making This UP!!

        (ahhh…that's better…)

  • Kev

    He's lobbying to bring clean drinking water to aboriginal reserves. While he may have broken some lobbying laws, I don't believe situations like these is why we have these laws in place. At least it doesn't appear to be. Guess only time will tell.

    • criselis

      That Bruce Carson – What a guy. Why I wouldn't be surprised to find out he wanted to cover the cost for first nations safe drinking water out of his own pocket.

      Disclaimer: Screaming Sarcasm

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      He's lobbying to bring clean drinking water to aboriginal reserves.

      Does it sound as good though if it's written: "He's lobbying for a specific company to be given the lucrative contract to bring clean drinking water to aboriginal reserves"?

    • brooster2

      "While he may have broken some lobbying laws, I don't believe situations like these is why we have these laws in place."

      Au contraire, this is exactly one of a variety of situations lobbying laws are meant to prevent. Regardless of the virtues of the company whom he was representing, or the merits of their technology, or the purity of their intent, using an insider with connections to the sitting government to gain advantage over one's competitors is illegal. And if Carson accepted a retainer by that company (which, I assume, has yet to be established) in order to use his connections in that way, then it would appear he has broken the law.

      • McC_

        wasn't there a recent political advertisement in which a Canadian political leader was boasting that Canada was a great country because here 'who you know' doesn't limit 'where you'll go'? <snapping fingers> now where did I see that….

  • McC_

    one can't help but notice some difference in the speed and intensity of the response when the allegations are against someone who isn't on the government/party payroll anymore (Jaffer, Carsons) vs. someone who is still collecting the Queen's shilling for their work…

    • Crit_Reasoning

      vs. someone who is still collecting the Queen's shilling for their work…

      For example…?

      • Holly Stick

        He was Exec Director of CSEE – a Harper appointee pretending to care about climate change:
        http://sixthestate.net/?p=904
        http://sixthestate.net/?p=1025
        http://sixthestate.net/?p=1035

        • Crit_Reasoning

          I asked McC_ for an example of an investigation against "someone who is still collecting the Queen's shilling for their work", for purposes of comparison with the allegations against Carson.

          I'm not sure why you responded with links to Carson. That's obviously not the example I was asking for.

          • Holly Stick

            CSEE gets big funding from the Harper Regime; so it's arguable that Carson still collects the Queen's shilling.

      • McC_

        it's probably more of an impression than a rule… off the top of my head there are the couple of senators involved in a five-year old administrative dispute, perhaps; Sebastien Togneri sort of works on both sides, as 6 months passed between his damning testimony against himself and his firing/resignation, and after that, the investigation got serious; Kelly Block's staffer who was quickly fired over a budget leak would be a good counter example.

        • Crit_Reasoning

          Thanks for your thoughtful response. Togneri was a decent example, but as you say the Togneri example works both ways. I think you're probably right that "it's more of an impression" than an observation supported by evidence.

  • Holly Stick

    So this is a guy who was disbarred and jailed for fraud, thenhe was an advisor to Mulroney and Clark and to Harper for wuiate a few years, I read somewhere . Did they know about his criminal past?

    No wonder the Conservatives are such scofflaws.

  • lgarvin

    I take McC's comment in a different spirit than the thumbsuckers.

    He seems to be making a comment on the use of RCMP resources to provide political cover. It was a cynical misuse of power when Chretien did it ( and did it, and did it…) and it's a cynical misuse of power when Harper does it.

    We have a Commissioner of Lobbying, why is this matter not being investigated by that office?

    • frobisher

      Because red serge is prettier than grey flannel?

      Absolutely, this is political cover and is abhorrent on both sides of the aisle.

  • Crit_Reasoning

    That wasn't an RCMP investigation. That was an Elections Canada investigation. Do you have any other examples?

    • OriginalEmily1

      LOL yeah it was an RCMP investigation. They were called in by Elections Canada.

      • Crit_Reasoning

        William Corbett, the commissioner of Elections Canada, sought the RCMP's assistance to execute a search warrant. It was definitely not an RCMP investigation.

        So you can't come up with more examples of RCMP investigations?

        • OriginalEmily1

          Yup, a search warrant on a federal criminal matter.

          The problem with your 'critical reasoning' is that if Harper ate live puppies on TV, you'd be on here telling us they were rabid, so he was actually 'saving us'. LOL

          • Crit_Reasoning

            I think it's hilarious that you can't come up with legitimate examples to support your claim that "I've never seen a govt so investigated by the RCMP". Pretty weak, Emily.

          • OriginalEmily1

            I think it's hilarious that you can't pry those blinders off.

            Go play with your rabid puppies.

            Oh…and change your name.

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            Not that I don't fall into this trap frequently myself, but I think it's hilarious when somebody tries to have a rational conversation with Emily on here.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            It's also hilarious how skewed the thumb ratings are. Emily is constantly rewarded for her nonsense by a herd of thumb-clickers who automatically thumb up any comment that is anti-Government, no matter how stupid or inane. I think that's why she keeps coming back–she feels validated by the thumb ratings.

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            Well, in this case you have a point. I don't see how anyone can call something an "RCMP investigation" if the RCMP weren't the one's doing the investigating.

  • Amateur Hour

    Ah yes, this Bruce carson fellow has a colorful past that involves rule-breaking and cash:
    http://www.thestar.com/article/479507

    • frobisher

      From 'disbarred and jailed' to 'senior adviser'? Colourful indeed. What's that about "The company one keeps'?

  • McC_

    am I reading "Carson told APTN on camera that he lied in the email, but that he had spoken to “someone,” but did not elaborate" right that it sounds like he's saying "While that email looks bad, I didn't actually do anything wrong, because I was lying at the time"?

  • gottabesaid

    Raises an interesting conundrum: "I was lying… you gotta believe me! I'm telling the truth!"

  • Jenn_

    I agree. They don't deserve kudos in the sense that they are voluntarily cleaning up their own act, but the kudos for not causing another contempt-type issue.

    And when we are praising them for acting like average responsible adults, it really does hit home how low we have sunk, doesn't it?

  • Thwim

    There's two ways this can be looked at.

    One, Carson is telling the truth about his lying.
    Two, Carson is lying about lying, goodness knows there's be enough motive for the PMO to want to work some kind of deal with him to hide any direct involvement by Harper if there was such.

    The problem is that neither Carson nor the PMO are reliable enough to assume that either is telling the truth.

  • McC_

    then it starts to turn into an episode from Lewis Carroll.

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