Beyond The Commons

 Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

'The Ignatieffs were not typical immigrants'

by Aaron Wherry on Friday, March 18, 2011 9:15pm - 149 Comments

In a missive this evening, apparently in response to this video, the Conservative party takes issue with Mr. Ignatieff’s family heritage and apparently seeks to debate who can rightfully claim to be an immigrant.

While the Ignatieffs have made the most of their coming to Canada in their respective fields, they have never ceased to enjoy great privilege, as a function of the financial and educational resources and social status they brought with them, and which are theirs to this day.  The Ignatieff immigrant experience is one of significant wealth, first-rate educations and privilege. Very few Canadian families can claim this “immigrant experience.”

Mr. Ignatieff’s father, George, served for nearly 50 years in the Canadian civil service. The website for Citizenship and Immigration Canada describes his life story here. For whatever it is worth—assuming one wishes to engage in a debate over the exact socioeconomic status of a politician’s late father and the worthiness of such—that biography includes the observation that, upon arriving in Canada, his family had “barely enough money for basic necessities.”

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  • danby

    This just in from CPC headquarters:

    Ignatieff was born in Indonesia – Canadian birth certificate a forgery

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      I thought he was born in Kenya.

      • Fred Moro

        It depends who you talk to, born in Kenya and studied in Indonesia or born in Indonesia and studied in Kenya. Either way that birth certificate is fake.

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    So, wait, does the first "C" in CPC stand for Communist now?

    I love how they point out that his father went to private school in 1928, and then just don't mention at all that he was yanked back out again in 1929 after the crash.

    Clearly the Tories have spent a lot of time looking in to Ignatieff's family history. Given that, and the fact that they've been the government of Canada for 5 years, why haven't they taken the following off of the government of Canada website that Wherry links to, if it's so inaccurate?

    "Although there was barely enough money for basic necessities, George’s resourceful mother managed to squeeze enough out of the household budget to send her young son to Montreal’s exclusive Lower Canada College. The stock market crash of 1929, however, put an abrupt end to George’s private–school education. With the advent of the Great Depression, Ignatieff and the rest of his family united under one roof in Thornhill on the northern outskirts of Toronto"

    • Reverend_Blair

      "Clearly the Tories have spent a lot of time looking in to Ignatieff's family history."

      Well, not enough to get it right.

      • Jan

        Fred Delorey's research skills seem to be a bit lacking. That or he's engaging in Oda -style truthiness.

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    Upon further reflection, it occurs to me that this response from the Tories is actually exactly what one would expect from a party led by a career politician.

    • bergkamp

      " … one would expect from a party led by a career politician."

      I think you are on to something with that. I have been wondering why Iggy's background bothers Cons so much. Iggy is trying to sell himself as just regular guy/family – which is not at all authentic/accurate – but Cons can go too far in pointing out Iggy's privileged background.

      Iggy is doing badly in polls – both personally and party – so Cons should just leave him be. Iggy is busy digging himself a hole, don't stop him. No reason for Cons to be vexed by Iggy and his family connections because Canadians aren't buying Lib message either.

      • MostlyCivil

        They must think his latest ad is valuable, otherwise, they WOULD just back off.

  • John D

    "The Ignatieff immigrant experience is one of significant wealth, first-rate educations and privilege. Very few Canadian families can claim this “immigrant experience."”

    Is this true? Immigrants actually have a higher level of education that 'other' Canadians (not sure about wealth). I've never met many poor immigrants – refugees, yes, but Ignatieff has never claimed that his family were refugees.

    • NorthernPoV

      their entire knowledge of the immigrant community is based on old Hollywood movies and slide-shows that Kenny had some jihadi dream up based on marketing theory and polling data.

      (and this kinda reflects on the census silliness too)

    • john g

      Yes he has but he is not exaggerating on this point…they were legitimate refugees from Russia.

    • Reverend_Blair

      "Is this true?"

      No, it's a bizarre invention. The Ignatieffs sold a money-losing farm in England (that vaunted "country estate") and moved to Canada, where they could only afford to rent.

      • LdKitchenersOwn

        I think the question was actually whether or not it's true that "very few Canadian families can claim this 'immigrant experience'".

        And, actually, I don't think THAT's true either. We have always had, and continue to have, MANY immigrants to Canada who are better off on arrival than Ignatieff's family were when they got here. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the majority of immigrants to Canada in 2010 were relatively better off when they arrived in Canada than the Ignatieffs were when they arrived. And plenty of immigrants put everything they can save into their kids education rather than other luxuries. And just like George had to be pulled out of LCC a year after he entered when the Wall Street crisis hit in 1929, I'm sure there were immigrant families who were forced to pull their kids out of private schools in 2008 when the recession hit, because it was taking every extra dime they had to pay the tuition in the first place.

        The Tories want to convince you that Ignatieff's father was some Prince who came to Canada on a private yacht, but from everything I've read George Ignatieff's immigrant experience was quite typical.

        • Reverend_Blair

          Yeah, there is a huge time distortion there…the situation of immigrants shifts constantly. It's funny, my Ukrainian forefathers were middle class back in the Ukraine. They basically managed land (and peasants) for the minor aristocracy who owned the land.

          By the time they got here, my relatives were no longer middle class. They'd spent most of their money to get here. They did the usual thing of building a soddie etc. That was the standard story of the wave they came over in. The same can said for the other components of my family…their stories match the circumstances of the waves of immigrants they came with.

          I'd bet that the Ignatieff family's story is much the same as that of other immigrants of the time. Never mind the Count thing…the Russian aristocracy was done, and there have been plenty of bankrupt aristocracy throughout history at any rate.

          A couple of decades ago we had a wave of dairy farmers from Holland immigrate to the part of Manitoba that supports the Conservatives so fervently. Why not? They could sell their land in Holland by the square foot and buy acres here. They fit into the area well. They seem to work about the same as everybody else. They understand Holstein cattle and dairy farming. They had money, lots of money. The current Conservative claims would seem to challenge whether these people and the children who have been born since are valid Canadian immigrants because they arrived with cash in hand.

    • Gayle

      Canadian immigration operates on a points system that is skewed to the educated. According to wikipedia:

      "Immigrants to Canada are more skilled than immigrants to the United States. George J. Borjas compared immigrants to Canada and the United States finding those to Canada being better educated and receiving higher wages once settled. He accredits this to Canada's points based immigration system, and argues for the United States to more closely emulate the Canadian method.[21]

      Within the Canadian economy, immigrants are most found at the highest education levels. In Canada, 38% of male workers with a post-graduate degree are immigrants to the country.[22] 23% of Canadians are foreign born, but 49% of doctorate holders and 40% of those with a masters degree were born outside Canada."

  • Fred Moro

    That is classified information.

  • guest

    Ignatieff is an emigrant to me, to the US, to the UK. Hmmm where else did he go again???

  • http://canadiansense.blogspot.com/ CanadianSense

    It appears the Liberals don't like having the facts presented about their leader.

    Did the personal attacks on Helena and Rahim have any merit? How many months were spent attacking them by Liberal MPs on television and Question Period?

    How many times have we seen the Liberals allege wrongdoing without waiting for the rule of law or due process in our courts?

    How many times have allegations of fraud and illegal activity have been raised behind parliamentary privilege?

  • Holly Stick

    The Harper Gutterment: liars, cheaters, smearers. Stealing taxpayers' moeny to buy election ads instead of trying to provide good government.

  • Margaret

    Ignatieff clearly has a lot more class than Harper does. Do we want a dumbo like Harper in the PMO any longer? He's an impostor, a poseur, a charlatan – who has no idea how important it is to LEAD a country.

    Ignatieff's father came from Russia – which tells me the family is well acquainted with the reasons for preserving democracy – wouldn't you say?

  • Out There

    They didn't dig deeply enough. It's a matter of documented record that Michael Ignatieff's great-great-great-great-great grandfather said something rude to his next door neighbour in 1773 after having had too much potato vodka.

  • Reverend_Blair

    Isn't all vodka potato vodka? Hey! What did those Russians drink before the discovery of the New World?

  • MP3

    Don't forget Harper's great great grandfather running around using the courts to throw people of their lands in Middle Sackville at the time of the american revolution. http://heritage.tantramar.com/WFNewsletter_45.htm…

  • Reverend_Blair

    So basically the Conservatives are complaining that that the Ignatieffs were educated? Being smart and going to school precludes people from running for office now?

  • RayK

    No, it can be made using lots of different things.

  • Darden Cavalcade

    How do Conservatives still win elections?

  • Andy

    Sorry Margaret. It is Mr. Harper who is the one with "Class" and it is Mr. Harper who saved us from the thieving Liberals and gave us what we have today. There is nothing dumb about Mr. Harper Margaret. Iggy, belongs out in the field with the toads…..he even looks like one. As the Americans used to say about him, he likes to hob-nob with those in "power", he is not for the middle or the poor man. Looking at that picture of his parents, they don't look to me like aristocrats Iggy has been telling us they were. Do you agree?

  • auntie-em-m

    because too many Canadians are stunned ? (into apathy ;0)

  • Reverend_Blair

    Well, they buy them of course. With taxpayer money.

  • D.D.S

    Iggy, belongs out in the field with the toads…..he even looks like one.

    You are a Liberal plant….right?….I mean this is some sort of (bad) parody….right?….nobody uses the word hob nob anymore …Do they?

  • wellwell

    It's time, gentlemen! Could somebody roll Andy home?

  • D.D.S

    elitist….they call them elitist….

  • Gary

    Conservatives have been historically anti intellectual. Education , science , and thinking for oneself are not conservative traits.

  • John D

    I can't wait to hear Jason Kenney's announcement that they are going to change immigration rules to let in more poor, uneducated immigrants.

  • frobisher

    Only 'elitists'. Gad, you're right!

  • Reverend_Blair

    Er…I've seen the common man. Hell, I am the common man. When I look for elitists, I can't see much difference between Ignatieff and Harper. I mean, these aren't guys who show up to help me shovel dirt and drink beer, although it would do them some good.

    At the same time, I don't really want the guys who do show up to help me shovel dirt and drink beer to run the country. Not much nuance when the solution to every problem is to get a bigger hammer.

  • Reverend_Blair

    Yeah, that scares me more than most things about them.

  • john g

    I must have missed the memo. Are the media against using politicians' families against them today?

  • NorthernPoV

    john g: you usually are better than this. Trying to equate:

    Cynically using your own kids as props
    vs
    Referencing family background to combat scurrilous attacks on one's background.

    Shame!

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    That's a story from CP. I'm sure there must be a link you can provide to the LIBERALS using the whole handshake thing against Harper in a press release, and THAT is the analogy you need to use here (understand, I'm not saying it's not out there, I'm just saying that your argument would be many times stronger if you found it and used THAT as your point of comparison).

    I think you need to compare a Liberal attack to this Tory attack, and what you did there was compare the Tory attack to a story from the Canadian Press.

  • Jan

    Fair to comment on a Harper organized photo-op.

  • john g

    Bull. The Conservatives did not invent the reference. The Liberals exaggerated on Ignatieff's family history in an ad. How is using your late parents as props any less cynical than using your kids?

    If families are off limits, then make them off limits. The tone of the article I linked to was a disgraceful, uncalled for attack against Harper; much worse than this missive penned by the Conservatives, which was nothing more than a fact check. There was not one single disparaging remark against Ignatieff's father in the entire thing. Not one.

  • NorthernPoV

    "The Conservatives did not invent the reference"
    Huh?
    I guess you missed the "just visiting" series

    Harper is obviously jealous of a decent pedigree.

  • john g

    Then why is it not fair to comment on a Liberal produced advertisement?

  • john g

    Why would the Liberals even bother getting their hands dirty when the job is done for them by CP?

  • Holly Stick

    Wow, good catch. The ancestor came over and bought a gentleman's manor for 550 pounds, like any elitist.

    I had assumed Harper's forebears came out of the gutter, based on his behaviour and that of his minions.

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    Yes, yes, there's no one in the entire country outside of the government's own MP's that isn't in on the vast conspiracy against the Conservatives.

    We get it already.

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