Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

'The Ignatieffs were not typical immigrants'

by Aaron Wherry on Friday, March 18, 2011 9:15pm - 149 Comments

In a missive this evening, apparently in response to this video, the Conservative party takes issue with Mr. Ignatieff’s family heritage and apparently seeks to debate who can rightfully claim to be an immigrant.

While the Ignatieffs have made the most of their coming to Canada in their respective fields, they have never ceased to enjoy great privilege, as a function of the financial and educational resources and social status they brought with them, and which are theirs to this day.  The Ignatieff immigrant experience is one of significant wealth, first-rate educations and privilege. Very few Canadian families can claim this “immigrant experience.”

Mr. Ignatieff’s father, George, served for nearly 50 years in the Canadian civil service. The website for Citizenship and Immigration Canada describes his life story here. For whatever it is worth—assuming one wishes to engage in a debate over the exact socioeconomic status of a politician’s late father and the worthiness of such—that biography includes the observation that, upon arriving in Canada, his family had “barely enough money for basic necessities.”

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  • Just Joe

    Thank you for this. It saddens me to see people posing as the politically righteous are really only swindlers and it's especially depressing that so many believe the distortion and lies. When are Canadians going to wake up and realize that this country is being governed by charlatans and cheats who laugh at those who entrusted them with their votes.

    • johnny

      the issue is so irrelevent that i hate wasting electricity running my laptop to read this. Brian Mulrooney's dad was an electrician, so that made him a friend of the working man right? Wrong. He was a Bay Street lawyer. Ignatieff is a out of touch ivory tower occaisionally Canadian, usually American, sometimes British oportunist, regarded by his own party as qualified to sit in an empty chair, regardless of his family's background.

      • Selena

        But I bet he can spell

    • unrhetoricallyspeaking

      I cannot understand why people do not debate on the idealogies and mission statement of the parties instead of mud slinging…. Is it because we are so lazy , that we do not try to understand what each party can do for Canada . We are definitely better than our southern neighbour , which is well known for personal attacks between candidates during elections.. Let us , the Canadian residents and Citizens have intelligent discussion of what each party can do for Canada … it is not a Iggy vs harper .. they are candidates …YES….and are representatives of their parties THAT's ALL…

  • gottabesaid

    Just when you thought political discourse in this country couldn't get any more stupid… we have a debate on the 'immigrantness' of Michael Ignatieff.

    Sigh… dumber by the day.

    • Halo_Override

      To be fair to the Harper Government™, though, I never, ever think that.

  • Mike T.

    If we like poor immigrants the best, why is there an investor class? And why is it fast-tracked?

    • Halo_Override

      Troop-hater.

  • Mike T.

    On a day when ads ran admonishing us that we must never ever ever speak of anything but the economy, and on which we essentially declared war on another country:

    how many hours were devoted to creating and approving this ad?

    • FVerhoeven

      A lot of hours. But they never complained, they never sat back and waxed nostalgic about the vanished glories, they rolled their sleeves up………………..

      • Mike T.

        ha!

  • http://dougsamu.wordpress.com dougrogers

    Canadian born children of immigrants should be aware they aren't Canadian enough to run the country

    • Halo_Override

      Has anyone actually seen Michael Ignatieff's birth certificate?

      • http://dougsamu.wordpress.com dougrogers

        Lib? Ya!

    • RayK

      Actually by doubting Ignatieff's immigrant cred, I think the Cons are saying that no one but the children of immigrants can become Prime Minister.

      (But really they're just calling Ignatieff a liar. In their defence, Ignatieff is stretching the truth here to make himself look more like a self-made man.)

  • Halo_Override

    Get used to hearing the name Fred DeLorey, everyone.

    • http://twitter.com/TheHarperGov TheHarperGov

      Atta boy Freddie!

    • Jan

      Do they have Nigel Wright tied up or what? I thought he was supposed to bring a little class to the operation.

      • Dave

        And where would he find this class of which you speak?

    • BGLong

      Ahh… we sent them Delorey… they sent us Kevin Lacey. A lose-lose situation.

  • Andy

    You have a nerve Iggy, using the "Immigrant" story of your parents.
    They came to this Country and so did you, But, you chose to leave for most of your life and you only decided to come back to impress the Americans and to get Mr. Harpers job. You will "never" be PRIME MINISTER of this Country because we all see through you. You are only promoting the immigrant story to get the Immigrants coming into this Country to vote for you. Remember one thing Iggy…..we aren't "all" Immigrants and it will be those of us who keep you out of the Prime Ministers Job. Start packing your bags Iggy.

    • Mike T.

      At this point, it would probably be better for your party if you were to stop talking?

      • lgarvin

        Let him talk… at the rate we're going he'll be head of the Conservative "communications" team by the end of April.

        • McC_

          ouch

      • Jan

        Let him talk – it's a good antidote to the Kenney platitudes about how much they love immigrants.

    • http://dougsamu.wordpress.com dougrogers

      we aren't "all" Immigrants

      Courting the Anishnabe vote are we?

    • Anon Liberal

      Ah, "us" vs. "them". The healthiest of all debates.

    • John D

      CANADA: You're welcome to come, but don't you dare leave.

      • frobisher

        Are we living in the Hotel California?

    • wellwell

      Another triple, Andy?

    • Bugzy

      Hey lame brain Andy, It is Harpers goverment who brought upMr. Ignatieffs immigration and his family. It would be really nice if you read the articles to the end instead of making up your own story before coming to your make believe conclusions. Man your an ugly spieces of a human being.

    • Lola

      If's a free country, Andy. Educated, worldly Canadians bother you THAT much, huh?

      Put your family's story on the table, Andy, for dissection by others, because apparently, you are one of those who knows what the true definition of Canadian is.

  • Anon 001

    I want to know about Fred DeLorey's father, specifically the values he taught young Fred.

  • FVerhoeven

    Богатые люди не говорят о деньгах. Это много надо сказать!

    • OriginalEmily1

      So you're a Bolshevik still envying the rich?

      • Steve

        Its the conundrum of every right populist movement

        • OriginalEmily1

          Yeah…on the political spectrum it seems to be a circle in the end…..the far right agrees with the far left

          • Steve

            At least they had some interesting ideas about money back then.

    • Gary

      Арфист Стефан более плохая вещь которая всегда случалась к Канада

    • Lola

      You said it!

  • FVerhoeven

    Никогда не бывает слишком много справочной информации. Это делает план выделяются …………

    • Jan

      Same to you, buddy!

    • danby

      Translation:

      I've never seen such low politics been practiced in my life.

    • Just Joe

      Все ваши базы принадлежат нам
      - Либеральная партия Канады

  • austinso

    What a bunch of dumbasses in the CPC…

  • Mark Francis

    Iggy was born here, and they treat him this bad. makes you wonder what they think of real immigrants.

  • OriginalEmily1

    I just got in….and am astounded to learn that the Cons actually attacked an immigrant family ….for being immigrants???

    Would he be more acceptable if he'd been Irish fleeing the potato famine on a coffin ship?

    Wait…he's a Liberal…so probably not.

    • Reverend_Blair

      Yeah, I really don't get that.

      How many generations back do you count? My Ukrainian forebearers came over before WWI, are they more worthy than Ignatieff's due to their earlier arrival.

      How rich is rich? Where I'm from, renting a farm is a sign that you weren't rich enough to buy one, and even owning a farm wasn't/isn't a sign of great wealth and privilege.

      And why does having royal heritage have anything to do with it? Is Russia going to re-institute the Czarist system and call Ignatieff back to work for them? Are the Conservatives siding with the Bolsheviks and communists here?

      • frobisher

        Count. You said Count.

    • OriginalEmily1

      Your post isn't showing up on here….so I'll have to reply to myself to ping yours.

      My paternal family arrived in 1848 from Ireland….married into a family from Man that probably arrived around the same time. On the other side….all English…my grandfather arrived here as a young man. I married a 1st generation Polish/Italian….and I have a recent SIL from the UK…shocker, an Oxford grad!

      How rich is rich? My Irish forbearers bought a farm, my grandad was a cabinet maker, 2 in my family worked at GM on the line…..

      Everyone in this country is an immigrant….or the child of immigrants….or the grandchild etc

      How the Cons think attacking immigrants will help them….I have no idea.

      And this certainly sounds like the Cons are siding with the Bolsheviks!

      • exccanuck

        OE1, thanks for the bio, but one is neither impressed nor interested. You are tying yourself in knots to invent some new excuse to hate Harper.

        • D.D.S

          I don't hate anyone…I don't even know the man…I think he is a terrible PM and is way too controlling and I can't wait to rectify a mistake I made by voting for him the last time…. but no hate….
          ………..why do you hate exccanuck?

        • OriginalEmily1

          Not your concern.

      • Just Joe

        Their base are xenophobes?

        • OriginalEmily1

          Oh Cons are xenophobes alright!

  • brooster2

    Compared to the faux "hardships" experienced by these allegedly-impoverished immigrants from Russia, here's a true story of struggle and sheer deprivation experienced by the family of a real Canadian:

    When lil' Stevie was only four, his family went on a weekend visit to Niagara Falls and, while there, crossed the menacing frontier into Buffalo, to experience some international culture. On the way back, it was raining, the car had a flat tire, there was a ridiculously long line-up at customs (who forced them to open their trunk), and everyone in Stevie's family was tired and traumatized, all because they'd tried to see a bit of the world.

    So, lil' Stevie never ventured abroad again…ever…until long after he grew up and got a big job that involved travel.

    • Jan

      I had no idea about this, I have been way too hard on him.

      • brooster2

        I sense that he's not ready to talk about it…but he carries the emotional scars with dignity.

    • http://tiny.cc/CRUSH Nadine Lumley

      11. Steve hates to travel and didn’t get a passport until he could travel at the public’s expense

      • brooster2

        But now you can see why, eh? To this day, I understand he doesn't ever mention buffalo wings.

  • http://tiny.cc/CRUSH Nadine Lumley

    Michael Ignatieff politely responds to Harper’s nonsense personal attack ads re “just visiting”.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGifqWMeZIA&fe…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-GekKKNUTU&fe…
    http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/The_Rick_Mercer_R…

    a good repost from: Erik Snyder – Hey let's throw out Wayne Gretzky too, he's been away from Canada for too long to be Canadian anymore.

    • Jan

      Just the right tone, Iggy – don't let the b*stards get you down. The Green party ad even more relevant now. And Rick nails it as usual.

  • katie smith

    The "missive" on the Tory "let's hate Iggy" website is misleading … and it would seem, deliberately so … Near as I can tell, this is the story …

    Count Paul Iggy (grandfather), White Russian, not so popular in post-Revolution 1919, flees Russia after facing execution … Takes family to England … Gets 25,000 pounds sterling out of Russia … buys farm in Sussex … (ie: spends money on farm) … Count Paul gets depressed, has affair with the lady next door, abandons family in England, runs off to Paris to be depressed with other ex pats … farm fails ….

    Uncle Dima, Iggy's father's older brother, comes back from Canada, sells farm, telegram to Count Paul in Paris – "I'm taking Mom and the two youngest boys (including George, Iggy's father) to Canada" … Count Paul joins them four years later … So it seems quite probable that when George and his mother came to Canada with his brothers, they had next to nothing …

    Looks like what the CPC attack site did, was take the part about Count Paul getting 25,000 pounds out of Russia and skipped the part about Count Paul wasting it all and running off … and did so to say – see, George wasn't poor … Iggy lied … The rest of it? Just sneering at Iggy's uncles because they did well, as far as I can tell, and claiming their privilege background gave them an edge (ya, right, like being Russian nobility made any play in those days or any other) …

    My great-grandfather was a Barr Colonist who moved with his family from England to Saskatchewan in 1903 … they had nothing when they got here – or trust me, they would have turned around and gone right back … he became an MP … his sons and grandsons – PHDs. Guess we aren't real immigrants either …

    And oh ya, the jewels the CPC snipers refer to? Family heirlooms … incidentally, we too have such things – a 16th c. silver chalice, a 200 year old grandfather clock, but trust me, rich is not what you would call my family … middling middle class …

    Disgusting attempt by CPC to slam Iggy through deliberate misrepresentation … and hoping that people won't take the time to see through it … Barfarama … Is this really what Canadian politics has come to?

    • NorthernPoV

      another great post by Katie

      Coyne: hire this writer

    • David

      Thank you katie….but can you explain why Iggy brought his family history into play? Why does he constantly feel a need to explain who he is? Did Trudeau? Chretien? Does Harper? The problem is he's thought of as an "out of touch elitist" so by drawing attention to his Russian aristocratic roots he reinforces that view? Trudeau and Chretien were politically smart. Iggy isn't.

      • Holly Stick

        Why should he sit back and let the lying Conservatives define him with their smears? He's smarter and a greater success in life than Harper ever will be. (And I don't like his politics all that much, but I loathe Harper's anti-democratic, anti-Canadian behaviour.)

  • John_Edgar

    This is clearly appalling, but I would like to see a link to the source, which doesn't appear to be attributed in the Star's article other than the rather vague "Conservative talking points". I couldn't find it (though admit to only looking for a couple of minutes).

    • Blues Clair

      Fred DeLorey

      • John_Edgar

        Thanks.

  • Jan

    The author is Fred Delorey – head attack dog. Getting a little flack back tonight. Ironically, today they also released two ads directed at Chinese immigrants. One of them is presented by MP Alice Wong,who was born in Hong Kong. http://politwitter.ca/user/FredDelorey

  • chet

    "Civil Servant"

    Quite the neutral term used by our auther. A cop working the beat? A secretary working the phones? A janitor in one of the government buildings perhaps?

    No.

    A "diplomat." A senior one at that.

    The most prized, posh, pampered extravagent lifestyle imaginable.

    That Wherry couldn't actually bring himself to say what Iggy's father actually did, other than in the most generic misleading way speaks volumes, and underscores the truth to the CPC's response.

    • Jan

      chet is a reverse snob.

    • MP3

      Diplomats serve their country. They are public servants. To turn that into some attack on "elitism" is a really pretty sad commentary on this generation of conservatives. This is really low and you guys need to admit it.

      • Bugzy

        What can one expect from the immature brain drained troll supporters off the Harper regiem. Worst then the dictator in Lybia,to lazy to check and read the explanations of what a diplomat is in the dictionary for dummies.

    • John_Edgar

      Wow, "The most prized, posh, pampered extravagent lifestyle imaginable. ". You have a very poor imagination.

      My brother is a (British) diplomat and he is well paid (he also works very hard) but if you think he has a posh, pampered and extravagant lifestyle then you have very little contact with reality.

    • http://dougsamu.wordpress.com dougrogers

      So he worked his way up to Diplomat. I imagine being educated, travelled, fluent in languages and familiar with Europe and cultured situations were positive factors in that resume.

  • chet

    And of course, every struggling immigrant family can……

    put their 11 year old, in one of the most exclusive private schools in Canada.

    Yes yes, tell us about your "huddled masses" experience.

    • Blues Clair

      I'm on my second cocktail as well chet.

      • chet

        Yes, and everything the CPC "missive" explained is true. And the "poor refugee" ad by Iggy couldn't be more misleading.

        • OriginalEmily1

          No actually it isn't….nor did Iggy say poor.

          What country are you posting from? Cuz we said nothing about 'huddled masses'.

        • Jan

          These ads must be even better than I thought. The greater the threat, the more nasty the operatives are.

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      Immigrants to Canada will be pleased to know that if they scrape all of their funds together to give their child a good education that the Tories somehow think this is a BAD thing.

      I also note that the Tories seem to have conveniently left out the fact that George was enrolled in LCC in 1928, and then pulled right back out again when the crash happened in 1929.

  • RayK

    While the Cons, as they have so many times in the past, seem to have stumbled across an important truth about Michael Ignatieff and proceed to completely misinterpret it, I think it's a stretch to say their questioning who can claim to be an immigrant.

    Ignatieff isn't just claiming to be the son of an immigrant. He's clearly trying to claim he comes from humble family beginnings in order create the impression that he got to where he is based on personal merit thereby making the case he's capable of leading the country, That's why "self-made man" narratives can be powerful in politics–because they imply merit.

    • RayK

      Granted, the Conservatives make it sound as though the issue is that he was born into wealth and privilege. But the real issue is that it's positively gauling that–having been born into wealth and privilege–Ignatieff now tries to paint himself coming from a hard scrabble immigrant background.

      The Cons should simply say that while they're sure Michae Ignatieff's parents and grandparents were great people, it's totally dishonest for Ignatieff to present his family as refugees who came here penniless. His grandparents left Russia because they were a Count and Princess in the Tsarist dictatorship that was overthrown in 1917 and they left with the equivalent of millions of dollars to set themselves up in Britain and Canada. It's more than a little rich for Ignatieff to present that as a hard scrabble immigrant background when he has benefited enormously from the very wealth and privilege his family brought with them to Canada.

      • McC_

        what do you have against the Gauls?

        • RayK

          D'oh–"galling".

      • Selena

        The CRAP people got their money the old fashioned way. They stole it.

    • Loraine Lamontagne

      The Harper Government's website claims the following:

      "Although there was barely enough money for basic necessities, George’s resourceful mother managed to squeeze enough out of the household budget to send her young son to Montreal’s exclusive Lower Canada College. The stock market crash of 1929, however, put an abrupt end to George’s private–school education. With the advent of the Great Depression, Ignatieff and the rest of his family united under one roof in Thornhill on the northern outskirts of Toronto."

      Is the Harper Government lying on one side of their mouth and telling the truth on the other?

      If the Harper Government is not happy with the information on its website, they should change it and rewrite history to fit their Con hallucinations and imagery.

      • RayK

        "Barely enough money for basic necessities" and "enough to pay for LCC" are contradictory.

        Granted it seems some members of the Ignatieff family managed to squander much of their riches, but portrayal of a hard scrabble immigrant background remains absurd,

  • WDM

    That might be among the most appalling things the Conservatives have done.

    • NorthernPoV

      ya think?
      Will it offend the national sense of fair play?
      These thugs have a real mean streak … reminds me of the 1993 Chretian photo ad.

      • Jan

        It shows how insecure the Cons are that they have to resort to this kind of thing.

    • lgarvin

      They can go lower… and they likely will.

  • danby

    The Conservative response to the contempt issue spurred me to donate $100 to the Liberal Party.
    This?
    Now I'm thinking I'll put up election signs, hand out pamphlets – volunteer my time, to the LPC during an election.

    I would prefer to engage in politics because I believed in a leader.

    Now I find myself willing to engage because the other party's actions are so contemptible that I'll sleep better at night knowing that I showed some backbone and at least tried to do the right thing.

    The rot has truly set in the CPC

    • NorthernPoV

      check out Catch 22 http://catch22campaign.ca/

      • http://twitter.com/catch22campaign @catch22campaign

        Thanks for the plug Northern. It is resulting in some traffic. Please consider doing more of the same.

    • Reverend_Blair

      Well, I'm not going to volunteer for the Liberals…I'll save that for the guys I actually vote for…but I'm likely going to write them another cheque. This attack is so low that it makes me embarrassed to be a Canadian at this point.

      Some of my forefathers (the Irish) came here with nothing. Some (the Ukrainians and the Poles) came here with little. Some (the Germans who came up from the US) came here with a fair bit. None were rich, but some had more than others. They all contributed to this country, including a couple who sat as MLAs and MPs, and a couple more who ran but didn't win.

      To misrepresent what Ignatieff's family went through to get here and their work to improve their lot in life…to imply that it somehow makes him unfit for public office…is an attack on immigrants and an attack on those who want their kids to do better than they did.

      • Holly Stick

        If the Irish ones came over during the potato famine, you definitely want to watch the CBC doc that was on Thursday, it's excellent and heartbreaking: "Famine and Shipwreck, An Irish Odyssey"
        http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/1221254309/ID=184…

        And throw it in the faces of the rightwing arseheils who want to get rid of the CBC.

  • Loraine Lamontagne

    Is the Con man saying that the info on the Harper Government is a lie?

    That Ignatieff's family came here by boat and arrived here without anything but their suitcase seems quite likely to me. That they had known privilege before the Russian revolution and war is likely true. This would be the case of a great number of immigrants to Canada who left their country because of war or revolution. Their wealth was their knowledge and education, something conservatives then and now deeply fear.

    If the Con man quoted thinks the information on Mr. Ignatieff's family on the Government of Canada (or is that the Harper Government's) website is incorrect, why doesn't he change it to his version of events?

  • MP3

    So now the only real immigrant to this country is a poor immigrant…except we don't really want poor immigrants which is why we make it difficult for poor people to immigrate here, and make it easy for those with wealth to immigrate here (investor class)….

    And we definitely don't want educated immigrant elites either, which is why we give more points in the immigration point system to applicants with university educations….

    • Jan

      Conservatives are definitely sending a mixed message on immigrants. They don't want them to be a burden on us but they don't want to them to get ahead of 'Real Canadians'. Seems to be born out of a sense of envy. Great way to run a Federal government.

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