John Geddes

John Geddes

John Geddes writes on politics and policy, with occasional reporting and comment on arts and culture.

What to call voters, besides Canadians?

by John Geddes on Monday, March 28, 2011 10:13am - 87 Comments

When I posted this yesterday on Stephen Harper’s appeal to immigrants and their children (and grandchildren, I suppose), I hesitated slightly before typing the word “ethnic.” I wondered if I should think of another adjective to describe these voters.

Aren’t all voters, if you get down to it, ethnic voters? But then I thought I might be falling prey to a sort of overly self-conscious attention to a harmless word. The term is generally understood to mean immigrants and maybe the next generation or two of their families. No harm in using this shorthand. Or so I thought.

Then this morning I heard this from Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff at his Toronto news conference, when he was asked about his own bid for the ethnic vote:

“Let me just say, if I may say with the greatest respect, the word ‘ethnic vote’, spare us this. With the greatest respect, I don’t think it treats people with respect. These are Canadians. I’m going to everybody out there, I’m saying a Canadian is a Canadian Canadian. Come on into the big red tent.  I’m going out to Mississauga not to talk to the ethnic vote. I’m going out there to talk to Canadians. “

The notion of a campaign that doesn’t differentiate among Canadians based on when their families came to this country, or where they came from, struck me as bold in an era when electoral strategy leans so heavily on slicing up the voting population into demographic groups—age, sex, religion, urban or rural, suburban or downtown, and, of course, cultural background.

Yet how to square what Ignatieff said with this news release, which the Liberal Party of Canada released this morning around the time he was speaking:

Liberals launch advertisements for multicultural audiences

OTTAWA – The Liberal Party of Canada got the election campaign rolling with a series of TV ads that speak directly to Canadians from vibrant communities that will define our country’s economic and cultural future.

The advertisements will feature ordinary Canadians speaking in a variety of languages – including Urdu, Hindi, Cantonese and Mandarin. Two ads were launched today, one in Punjabi and one in Portuguese.

Are “multicultural audiences” or “vibrant communities” okay but “ethnic voters” offends? I think it is always a delicate matter to identify people who must first be considered fellow citizens by some other aspect of their identify. But there’s no point pretending it isn’t done, and I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with the exercise.

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  • Just Joe

    You have my nod to "I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with the exercise." yet language is important. I have "ethnic" roots and had to endure the barbs aimed at me by some of my contemporaries — it was hurtful. Words that include rather than exclude people appeal to me. Ethnic tends to be exclusive.

  • Plain Old Anon

    Yup, I keep my French-Canadian heritage front-of-mind when I enter the ballot box.

    Oh wait, no I don't.

  • madeyoulook

    I am a huge fan of Ignatieff's most recent pronouncement. What matters is that we are Canadian, full stop. So when can we kill the whole government-promoted and financed multiculturalism thing? And is dual citizenship the next to go?

    The more we can keep government out of culture, the better.

    As for ethnic… remember that ethnics and money saved Canada at the last Quebec referendum, according to one highly placed observer.

    • noob_goldberg

      I think that one of the only reasons why dual citizenship matters to people is for reasons of labour mobility. I agree that dual-citizenship should be curtailed, but only with the understanding that labour mobility should be addressed simultaneously.

    • John D

      I really don't understand the problem with dual citizenship. If someone can have loyalty to their parents, spouse, and children all at the same time, why must they limit their loyalty to one country? Citizenship shouldn't be zero sum. I know a lot of immigrants 'escape' their native country to come to Canada, but many do not. I don't think someone should have to treat citizenship in that way. If someone moves from England to Canada for opportunity, and they show themselves enough of a Canadian to be a citizen they should be able to get citizenship. At the same time that doesn't make them a 'bad' British citizen and they shouldn't have to give that up.

      • madeyoulook

        So why stop at two? Every argument you give would also apply to the next country "of opportunity," and the next one, and so on, and so on…

        • SocialLiberal

          I don't know. Tell us why not.

          • madeyoulook

            A billion Canadian citizens, only some 35-ish million of whom actually live in Canada. That's why not.

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            Imagine what we could do with a billion Canadians.

          • s_c_f

            Absolutely nothing. Most of them would know nothing about Canada or where to find it on a map.

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            I was kinda hoping someone would roll with the humour of that comment, but as you've apparently taken it seriously, I'll reply in kind. Is it not generally considered true that Canadians who were not born here tend to know MORE about the country than those who were born here, not less?

            It's a generalization of course, but one with some truth to it I believe.

          • s_c_f

            I don't know if there is any truth to that statement. It's probably just a rumour, I think it would be hard to figure that out.

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            Especially if there were a billion of us!

          • xiv

            Well among other things, people who are not born canadian do have to pass a test. It'd be an interesting curiosity to take a sampling of born canadians and have them write it to see what the pass/fail rate would be.

            Regarding multicitizenship, i also don't see a reason for an upper limit on how many citizenships a person may carry. For there to wind up with a billion canadian citizens they all would've had to be a permanent resident of canada for at least 3 years… Immigration quotas alone would prevent this 'fear'…

          • Curt

            Lebenon

        • Mike T.

          And the more worthwhile the citizenship, the more lengthy and invovled the test would be.

        • Olivier

          Canadian citizens are entitled to have dual citizenship because being born in Canada makes you a Canadian.

          Also, there isn't anything above dual citizenship.

    • s_c_f

      remember that ethnics and money saved Canada at the last Quebec referendum,

      Those were not the same ethnics, that time it included white people, the white people who weren't pur-laine.

      I think the term people are looking for is ethnic minorities (which in central GTA includes every ethinic group, they're all minorities now).

  • Kelvin

    The first rule of appealing to the ethnic vote is you don't talk about appealing to the ethnic vote.

    • http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

      The second rule of appealing to the ethnic vote is, you do not talk about appealing…, wait…

      ::checks paper::

      Sorry, the second rule of appealing to the ethnic vote is "No smoking".

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ottawa_Centrist Ottawa_Centrist

    Ethnic is a vague term, composed of vague characteristics such as race, language, culture, religion, aesthetics, politics, etc. I personally think it is used lazily to try and assign cohesion to groups that are more fluid than category builders would like.

    Colloquially, I think it means 'minority', which is also kind of vague. Add enough characteristics, and we are all ethnic/minorities in some way.

    • E_B_

      I like your definition.

      At the most basic level, when a person refers to ehtnic, don't they mean anyone who is different from themselves? IE, I am a white Anglo-Saxon; to me at some level, that means everyone else is ethnic. I would also understand from the point of view of Canada, as the country was founded by the French and English, that perhaps if one isn't French or English then they are perhaps ethnic. In other words, it is a matter of context and perspective.

      However, that being said, if we really understand and relish our multi-cultural society (the Canadian Mosaic), then ethnicity really shouldn't matter.

  • AT1

    Why all the sudden squeamishness with "ethnic voters"?

    Is Ignatieff seriously trying to have us believe that consideration of ethnic voting blocs (yes, based on origins, race, skin color, cultural affiliation, etc) has never entered the minds of the Liberal brain trust. I don't think he is quite that naive.

    Perhaps he should speak to his pollster-chief-of-staff Donolo about how much thought the various political parties pay attention to these things. The Liberals in particular are especially well-versed in this form of politicking.

    • SocialLiberal

      It's kind of a non issue. The libs are shooting themselves in the foot riding this blurb.

      It's great fodder to get us all to forget that the government has been held in contempt of parliament. Along with the coalition, taxes, etc etc. There's one real issue here and it's contempt of parliament, but we all argue about stuff that doesn't really matter right now instead. *SIGH*

  • Leo

    Justin must be writing Iggy's talking notes, lol!!! More PC fluff.

    eth·nic 
    –adjective
    1. pertaining to or characteristic of a people, especially a group (ethnic group) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like.
    2. referring to the origin, classification, characteristics, etc., of such groups.
    3. being a member of an ethnic group, especially of a group that is a minority within a larger society: ethnic Chinese in San Francisco.
    4. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of members of such a group.
    5. belonging to or deriving from the cultural, racial, religious, or linguistic traditions of a people or country: ethnic dances

    • OriginalEmily1

      Writing about the usage of the term "ethnic" in the ordinary language of Great Britain and the United States, in 1977 Wallman noted that

      The term 'ethnic' popularly connotes '[race]' in Britain, only less precisely, and with a lighter value load. In North America, by contrast, '[race]' most commonly means color, and 'ethnics' are the descendents of relatively recent immigrants from non-English-speaking countries. '[Ethnic]' is not a noun in Britain. In effect there are no 'ethnics'; there are only 'ethnic relations'.[18]
      Thus, in today's everyday language, the words "ethnic" and "ethnicity" still have a ring of exotic peoples, minority issues and race relations.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group#Termino…

      • Leo

        My South Asian friends do not refer to themselves as "us brown people".

        Sorry Emily, You are the only one beating this drum.

        • OriginalEmily1

          No of course THEY don't….but white people do.

          • Leo

            Projecting, fail

          • OriginalEmily1

            Nonsense. Major fail.

          • Curt

            Emily ,
            You are stepping into an area you really should not go, i gre up in rural Canada where their were all kinds of "ethnic" Ccommunties. French, Scottish, Irish and German Ukraines etc. When farmers brought their milk to the dairy on Saturday morning it was like the United Nations. they were/are all Candians but………
            Let it go! Live to fight another day.

          • OriginalEmily1

            I also grew up in a rural community…and your examples are all white European. Hardly a United Nations, much less 'ethnic', but no doubt it seemed so to you then.

  • jonatwitan

    Thank you for making a counter "argument", as opposed to simply accusing me of ignorance.

    Can somebody else please chime in on this?

    • M_A_D_world

      An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture (often including a shared religion) and an ideology that stresses common ancestry or endogamy.[1][2] [3], "…in general it is a highly biologically self-perpetuating group sharing an interest in a homeland connected with a specific geographical area, a common language and traditions, including food preferences, and a common religious faith".[4]

    • M_A_D_world

      Sorry to jut a pasted definition in but it's props.
      You and Emily both have a leg to stand on but you're taking a literal meaning as opposed to her gut meaning.
      The word more less means what the author portrays it as in full context.

      • jonatwitan

        Thanks for that.

        What I have been at pains to point out that Emily's view is HER gut meaning, and that my view is MY gut meaning, and that so long as we're talking about gut meanings, neither of us is able to claim that EVERYONE feels the same way that we do.

  • Andy

    That is strange…..about a month ago I can clearly recall Iggy referring to "Immigrants" as being just that when he was telling them just how much he was going to do for them. Interesting.

    • OriginalEmily1

      Immigrants and ethnics…two different things. That would be the point of this thread.

  • psiclone

    I am Irish – Canadian and damn proud of my ethnicity !!! case closed

  • Guy Smiley

    I'm fond of the term"hyphenated Canadians". Inclusive, stupidly PC, vague, yet somehow specific enough that everyone can secretly think what it really means when they employ it.

  • catherine

    If they're "very" ethnic, then you must be a Conservative politician and you refer to them as "you people". According to our Prime Minister, that is.

  • Claudia Lemire

    I don't get it , a Canadian is a Canadian…

    Unless you are a Quebecer, didn't he mentioned something like that the other day?

    I am confused!! : P

  • OriginalEmily1

    'Ethnic' is code for non-white.

    'Multicultural' means all of us together.

  • John_Edgar

    Well, to keep things equitable I hope they also do a series of ads targeted to Canadians from dull or insipid communities.

  • Mike T.

    I don't think I would even think of "vibrant communities" as a term meaning ethnic. I have heard the term "diverse" beginning to be used a lot.

  • Curt

    What about Irish Canadians, Iranian Canadians, Ukrainian Canadians, English Canadians, French Canadians,
    Italian Canadians Greek Canadians?'
    "Ethnic' is code for non-white." Baloney.

  • Thwim

    So when someone speaks of ethnic Canadians, you think of the Irish?

  • OriginalEmily1

    When a politician goes to speak to an ethnic community, everyone is aware it's not an 'Irish, Ukranian etc' audience….they are considered Canadian.

    An 'ethnic' community is non-white.

  • OldJasper

    Scots. I can almost understand the Irish

  • noob_goldberg

    It does seem sometimes that people are working extra hard to talk about a specific group of people without actually making a direct reference to them. I blame the communications directors of all political parties.

    Wherry referenced this phenomenon in a QP summary a while back:

    "We should understand here that we reside in a world mostly dominated by communication specialists—people who earn their keep sorting out how to say what needs to be said without saying too much about what is going on. No leader of men can do without at least a dozen of these people. And it is because of these people that we have lost the ability to speak with each other in public in any sort of normal way. Because of these people—and also, ultimately, Richard Nixon—our politicians are no longer allowed to talk like normal human beings. Because of these people, thousands of verbs have been corrupted. And because of these people, our governments now spend less time explaining what they are doing than they do thinking about what to explain about what it is they are doing."
    http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/02/08/the-commons-th…

  • jonatwitan

    "everyone is aware it's not [a white] audience"

    I respectfully disagree. I am aware that Canada is made up of groups of many different ethnicities, including but not limited to white, black, brown, yellow, red, and whatever other colours there are. You may be speaking about your own experience, what you thing about when you hear that word, and perhaps those you hang out with, but you certainly do not speak for "everyone".

  • jonatwitan

    Everyone knows that those are the communities made up of the stupid people, and that stupid people vote conservative and will never change, because they are stupid. Hence, no point in reaching out to them.

  • John_Edgar

    They don't have to be stupid communities, just reserved, quiet and listless rather than exciting, pulsating, energetic, effervescent, lively, bubbly, bright, vivid, brilliant, dazzling, flamboyant, colorful, luminous, radiant, garish or lurid.

  • craigola

    "Everyone?" he asks, with a mind toward the exchange he just read between you and OriginalEmily1.

  • austinso

    It is one thing to produce commercials that are in the language of Canada's immigrants about their contributions to Canadian society, but it another to explicitly segregate them as a voting block and appeal to their past fears rather than their future here that Harper's ilk appear to be doing.

  • OriginalEmily1

    We weren't even 'Canadian' till about 1950…we were British subjects, and as such expected to be British.

    Older immigrants from other countries can tell you how badly they were treated…Ukranians, Czechs etc

    I remember 2 announcers on TV openly laughing about 'what kind of Canadian name is Mahovlich anyhow?'

    Then at some point it was decided that we should let in non-white immigrants in order to be fair and open….and two things happened. The 'Mahovlichs' of this country….all those white people with 'funny names', formerly laughed at and called 'dirty foreigners'…..became acceptable.

    And the word 'ethnic' was born for everybody else.

  • bergkamp

    "These are Canadians. I’m going to everybody out there, I’m saying a Canadian is a Canadian Canadian."

    "…… advertisements for multicultural audiences."

    1) Same old sophistry we are use to. Libs against ethnic vote but for multicultural vote.

    2) Iggy was railing against big government the other week and now speaking out against targeting ethnic vote. Is Iggy aware his party has history before he arrived on the scene? How can msm and pols keep from laughing when Liberal leader talks bollocks like that? Is Iggy even a Liberal?

    3) I wish Liberals were saying Canadian is a Canadian more than twenty years ago before Liberal parties across the land implemented a whole host of policies that treat people differently based on skin colour or religion or sexual preferences. Canadian is a Canadian is a nice thought but not remotely accurate in today's Canada.

  • Mike T.

    Even appealing to past fears would be trying to find a real issue that might be of interest and trying to craft policy that would be helpful to one group and not upsetting to the country as a whole.

    Asdie from going to fundraisers I haven't heard much. Except, in years past, stuff along the lines of "hey! these ethnics hate gays too! let's mobilize this minority against another!"

  • jonatwitan

    Ah yes, thank you for proving my point that it is you who hear's that word as referring only to non-white, and not everyone.

    You see Emily, everyone has not had the same experience that you have had. Everyone cannot tell you how badly Ukranians and Czechs were treated a long time ago. Everyone does not remember announcers making fun of peculiar European names. Everyone does not remember when Canada began to let in non-white immigrants.

    I was born in 1983, and went to school with people who belonged to distinct ethnicities of all kinds of colours. That is what I remember.

    As an aside, this gets at what is literally the most fundamental principle of good conversation. Namely, being aware that everyone has NOT (Bev Oda has not had her hands on this post, this "NOT" is original) had the same experience that you have had, and being willing to see things and understand things from your conversation partner's point of view.

  • Loraine Lamontagne

    We've been Canadiens for hundreds of years.

  • OriginalEmily1

    I know you don't want to accept this, but Canada hasn't always been open to other nationalities or 'races'. It took a concerted effort to make it so. An effort that began in the 60s.

    Yes, everybody older with a 'funny name' from other countries remembers this.

    So 1983 is long after we changed over….of course we had people from all over then, and political correctness was in place.

    Why is your ignorance of history an excuse for anything?

  • OriginalEmily1

    The Canadian Citizenship Act 1946 took effect on 1 January 1947. Prior to that date, Canadians were British subjects and Canada's nationality law closely mirrored that of the United Kingdom.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality…

  • McC_

    zing!

  • SocialLiberal

    Ahh hockey joke!!

    I almost pounced myself.

  • jonatwitan

    Do you misunderstand the point of my reply deliberately, or accidentally? Without knowing the answer to this, I refuse further comment. I'll let others jump in and decide.

  • bergkamp

    Scots.

    Me too. Paternal grandparents from working class glasgow, they were incomprehensible and my introduction to people are different.

    But I also know when we are having a debate about ethnic Canadians, we are not talking about white people from UK or France.

  • OriginalEmily1

    Your point seems to be that history began the day you were born. You are seemingly unaware of anything that occurred before that.

  • noob_goldberg

    "2) Iggy was railing against big government the other week and now speaking out against targeting ethnic vote."

    I must be dense. Are these separate issues or are you inferring that they are related somehow? I just can't see the link.

  • SocialLiberal

    "Libs against ethnic vote but for multicultural vote."
    Already confused. What?

    Of course the Liberals push multiculuralisim instead of trying to seperate everyone out. Why did we have the makings of a sponsorship scandal in the first place? Chretien created an office without the checks and balances required for things like that not to happen, because they wanted to flood money into advertising Canada in Quebec.

    I guess you're on the boat where we should be seperating everyone and letting Quebec seperate because you're sick of their whining?

  • jonatwitan

    Wrong. Here we go:

    You said that EVERYONE understands "ethnic" to be non-white"

    I retorted that not everyone has had the same experiences as you in life, and as such, you may understand the word as "non-white", but not everyone understands it that way.

    You replied by telling me about your own life experiences that have led you to interpret that word as referring to non-white.

    I thanked you for proving my point, and clarified that not everyone has had those experiences that you have had. In particular, I pointed out that my own experiences were different.

    You accused me of being ignorant of history.

    I denied an opportunity to respond in kind.

    You further accused me, that along with being ignorant of history, I apparently believe history began the day I was born (these two points seem to in some way be related to one another).

    Actually, I believe that people's experiences have a stronger impact on their perception of the word "ethnic" than does their knowledge of the history of Canada and Canada's general attitude to immigrants down through the ages. This is the point I was trying to make, and in fact what I thought we were talking about. I do know the history well, and yet I still think of ethnicities of all colours when the term is used. That is simply the truth, Emily, and no matter how much you refuse to admit it, there are many people – though assuredly not EVERYONE – who think the same way that I do.

  • OriginalEmily1

    Then I'll modify it to 'everyone that ever studied Canadian history' is aware of it.

    I didn't know you hadn't.

  • SocialLiberal

    I was born in 1983 and recognize "ethnic" to mean "non-white"

    Turn on the TV and watch something racy like drawn together or wondershowzen. They refer to "ethnics" and they're always african american or asian.

    While the definition of the word isn't people who are visibly not from here, we use it as such. So shh.

  • McC_

    Check Loraine's spelling, and you should see her point.

  • McC_

    to me "vibrant communities" means those fortunate few towns and urban neighbourhoods that still revolve around thriving mainstreets with popular local businesses and eateries, and the odd festival or gathering.

  • McC_

    Everyone run for cover, there's a Thesaurus loose on the Comment Boards!

    ;D

  • McC_

    this seems like a classic campaign continuity error between the Leader's chosen themes and the Party HQ's standard news release template. I doubt this will be the most significant such slip up we see from the Liberals over the next few weeks (ditto the other parties…. not to mention whether adequate belly-bribes are provided to the press riding on the campaign buses, as Delacourt acerbically noted)

  • OriginalEmily1

    Yes, I'm aware of how she spelled it, but we weren't legally Canadians or Canadiens until 1947, no matter what people called themselves.

  • tobyornotoby

    What? There weren't enough inconsistencies to cover on the Harper bus so you had to go looking eleswhere? Has he said coalition yet today?

  • McC_

    Les canadiens sont des canadiens depuis la dix-septième siècle.

  • McC_

    And we're legally so described in the Quebec Act, 1774 "And be it further enacted by the Authority aforesaid, that all his Majesty's Canadian Subjects within the Province of Quebec. the religious orders and Communities only excepted may also hold and enjoy their Property and Possessions, together with all Customs and Usages relative thereto, and all other their Civil Rights in as large, ample, and beneficial Manner…"

  • OriginalEmily1

    Go on a reserve and say that. LOL

    Sorry….British subjects till 1947. 'His majesty's subjects in the colony of Canada' is what it says.

  • McC_

    drat, "And were legally so described in the Quebec Act…"

  • McC_

    Yeesh, for someone who was just hectoring another poster about "when history began" earlier in this thread, I shouldn't have to remind you that Canadian history didn't begin with the Seven Years War, and that before 1759 the Canadiens were most definitely NOT British Subjects.

    PS: "all his Majesty's Canadian Subjects within the Province of Quebec" =! 'His majesty's subjects in the colony of Canada' c.f. the Royal Proclamation of 1763.

  • jonatwitan

    Put as simply as possible, I was arguing that experience, not knowledge or lack of knowledge of history is the determining factor in someone's understanding of that word.

  • jonatwitan

    Yeah, this is a classic instance of my forgetting to use the sarcasm font. That, and it was a bad joke to begin with.

  • OriginalEmily1

    You were always a colony, first French and then British…subjects either way.

  • craigola

    Correct on both counts.

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