Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

What it sounds like

by Aaron Wherry on Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:57am - 75 Comments

Last night, preceded to the stage by Paul Martin, Michael Ignatieff addressed a crowd of something a thousand people at a community centre in Edmonton. This was his first speech since the Sudbury outing and among the signs held aloft in front of him was a single one that read, in big, block letters, “Rise Up.”

Tags: Edmonton, election, Election 2011, Michael Ignatieff, Paul Martin, Sudbury

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OriginalEmily1

Memes….they travel fast these days, and Ignatieff seems to have started a good one.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

You and he have been trying for years now. Canadians haven't bought it.

OriginalEmily1

???? I'm not even in politics, and I don't start memes.

Ease off on the koolaid.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

Come on Nola, you've been agitating for Liberals for years. You refused to accept Harper as PM on election night in 2006, and have been hyping up every non-story since then, while dismissing real scandals under the Liberals. You're not fooling anyone. Neither is Iggy.

OriginalEmily1

Your ability to delude yourself amazes me Dennis. You are always arguing about non-existent issues.

I really think you've gotten some bad koolaid. It's turned into kookaid.
http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

You are always arguing about non-existent issues.

You mean like you and the opposition have for the last few years and during this entire campaign, despite saying it's for the sake of Canadian democracy? lol. Funny!!
OriginalEmily1

I exercise my right as a Canadian citizen to oppose any govt I dislike. Period.

It wasn't long ago that you were accusing me of being anti-democracy. LOL

You really should write this stuff down, so you can keep track of your accusations….your memory is going.
http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

You're the one accusing me of contradicting myself. You prove it. Why should I have to prove your bogus nonsense? lol

In the meantime, no one is buying this other Liberal nonsense about "rising up." Not even their more honest supporters.
OriginalEmily1

I realize you're trying to play the 'distraction' game here Denny, by trying to involve me in some dumb argument with you, but I'm afraid I'm not interested.

You're on your own.
Curt

I'm with Dennis on this one Emily.
OriginalEmily1

Like I would care.

Proud Canadian

Intro music sounds like Cape Breton fiddle music to me! Michael welcomed members from all parties, thats good. He reminded people that Paul Martin saved CCP, saved HC, saved our financial system, and welcomed First Nations peoples into the fold, Harper turned a 13 billion surplus to a 50 Billion deficit, 1889 was the last time a conservative turned a deficit into surplus!!! That's 122 years ago!!!
Great record ya got there Harper.
RISE UP CANADA
chet

Most Canadians identify "uprisings" with an oppressed people taking to the streets against an authoritarian oppressive regime.

No doubt there are loony elements in the far left regions of the Liberal party who have expressed such a sentiment vis Harper,

but I suspect most average Canadians find this type of hyperbole to be distasteful, offputting, and insensitive to those in repressive countries that truly must "rise up" against their oppressors to ensure basic freedoms.

That such an insunation is coming from the party leader and now forms part the central campaign thrust, truly underscores what must be desperate times in the Liberal camp.

The disconnect between the dire urgency Iggy is expressing and the average Canadian, couldn't have been more apparent in the relatively disinterested reaction to those in the video who were actually representatives of this "uprising".

If party faithful on stage looked confused (or even bemused) with this hyperbole, just imagine what the average Canadian is thinking.

Matlock

That's more than a little rich coming from a party that suggests the Bloc will destroy the country and are something to be feared. The Bloc is powerless to do so. It's the PQ that can actually move on separation.

But you go right ahead and suggest that those who dislike such hyperbole are voting Tory.

My suspicion is you're describing the 40+ percent of the electorate who are going to stay home on election day.

chet

"Suggest the Bloc will destroy the Country"

That is their stated purpose.

It's not some misleading suggestion. It is a basic fact.

Matlock

Care to tell me how the Bloc can do that? They have no means by which to separate. It's the PQ that can call a referendum.

But as I say, you go right ahead with the misleading hyperbole.

FVerhoeven

Exactly! The separatist have tried a few times now to get a yes in a referendum, only to have been handed a "no' each and every time.

And so, what the BQ has done, and what you don't seem to grasp, is that by participating within federal elections, the truly federal parties will now least likely be able to form majority governments. Which will put the BQ in a very good position, because when a coalition of the loosers will be formed, they will need the BQ in order to make the coalition government work. The BQ will be in position to be handed the balance of power over our Canadian federation.

In other words: what the separatists could not get through the front door (a yes on a referendum) they are now trying to get through the back door: special, separate powers in the House of Commons when coalitions are to be formed. Not a bad deal for the separatists. Not such a good deal for Canadians.
Anon

Wow, it has taken twenty years and ten plus years of succesive majority governments for their diabolical plan to come to fruition.
FVerhoeven

You don't understand, Anon. The BQ's power was curtailed by the Conservative party having been split in two for many years. Because of the Conservative split at the time, Mr.Chretien could win majority governments.

Now that the Conservatives are as one party running in elections again, the true federal parties are indeed undermined by the presence of the BQ running within federal elections.

But you don't have to believe me. Just listen to what Duceppe has to say for himself. And take that as direction for this country. Your choice. I will choose differently. Not only for myself, but for the future of my kids. Once the BQ has been given a clear balance of power over our federation, there will be no going back, and I, for one, will fight tooth and nail to not hand over such divided country over to my kids future. My kids are Canadians and being Canadian means being a federalist.
Anon

Should such a time arrive I would do so again just as I did in 1995.

No sulking and firewalls for me.

Et moi, je le fais en français!

Rise UP! indeed.

chet

Once again, take a look behind Iggy in this video. People looking at each other, some staring blankly, being cajoled to stand up, and in the end the reluctant rise from the two gentlemen on the right. These are Liberal party diehards, so at least no one was openly mocking the call for the urgent uprising:

[youtube _7dD-cnNkA4&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7dD-cnNkA4&feature=player_embedded youtube]

Matlock

At least Ignatieff keeps them awake:

[youtube j3UL6e1V1z4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3UL6e1V1z4 youtube]

Matlock

One time occurence? Nope.

[youtube RbfEcvd0kBk&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbfEcvd0kBk&feature=related youtube]

FindOutForYouself

I give up. How did you show this video instead of link only? Embed video button did nothing. I'm trying to display the real video instead of the cheat one chet showed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPOK9PIw-0

Matlock

When I click "embed video" a light blue pop up appears, into that you paste the URL and the video is embedded.
FindOutForYourself

Thanks – it must be the iPad problem then, no popup. I'll try later on a desktop.
http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

Sometimes it doesn't appear where you'd think it would — you might have scroll way up or down to find it.

FVerhoeven

At least it's spontaneous at the Conservative meetings. Nothing contrived going on there in both cases.

Ignatieff's call, however, is anything but spontaneous. The people behind him don't understand what Ignatieff is calling out for. There is no appetite present in the crowd behind him to rise up spontaneously. But then suddenly, the one couple gets the message:" Hey, I think Ignatieff wants us to do something here. Let's stand up in order not to let the leader hang out to dry….."

And so the couple in the back finally stands up and then the rest gets up. Pretty lame and contrived 'rising up."

FindOutForYourself

Oh, a chet-cheat clone. well nice try to you too, ignoring the video for chet's cheat snippet. Could there be a reason why you both of you are referring to a censored version, in which almost the entire video has been cut out and only 20 seconds? A thousand people stood up so that the camera operator had to raise the camera, which vibrated every time the audience stamped and applauded. for those interested in reality, instead of the censored, CONTROLLED world chet-cheat-FVerhoeven want you to believe, here's the REAL video of what happened. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPOK9PIw-0
http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

At least it's spontaneous at the Conservative meetings.

You cannot. Possibly. Be serious.

I'm not trying to claim that the Liberals don't also do stage management for their events, and I have no idea whether I agree with the positive appraisals of Ignatieff's speech or not, since I'm not interested in watching it, but that's some major denial you're indulging in there.

I mean, I respect the right to differing opinions and all, but that's self-delusion on a scale I normally associate only with chet. It's a long time since I've read such a willful inversion of reality from a commenter who usually tries to have legitimate discussions and arguments (regardless of whether I disagree with them).

Have you really missed it that the CPC campaign stops are the most heavily choreographed and micromanaged events since the era of Busby Berkeley musicals? Have you ignored every first hand report of these events that wasn't handed out directly from the CPC war room?

The mind reels from seeing such blatantly partisan magical thinking.
Mike T.

Her vote cancels out y'alls.

chet

Except there's no disconnect between kids showing disinterest when economic policy etc is being discussed,

and an "uprising" happening before our eyes, when the opposite is happening.

The point isn't boredom behind the leader,

the point is the disconnect.

Jan

I thought this was at a seniors residence. chet, you're confusing this with Harper's meetings which are stacked with pre-screened true blue, hand picked for age, gender and race.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

Yes, the Tories are the only party in political history to invite who they want to their own campaign events. The horror!

FindOutForYourself

Nice try chet (or was that more appropriately cheat?). Pretty tiny clip. could there be a reason why you cut out almost the entire video and selected those 20 seconds? A thousand people stood up so that the camera operator had to raise the camera, which vibrated every time the audience stamped and applauded. for those interested in reality, instead of the censored, CONTROLLED world cheat wants you to believe, here's the REAL video of what happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPOK9PIw-0

Holly Stick

Hey, maybe chet's the one who doctored the Grewal tape!
http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20…

FindOutForYourself

Sorry trying to figure out how others showed video. Trying a repost

Nice try chet (or was that more appropriately cheat?). Pretty tiny clip. could there be a reason why you cut out almost the entire video and selected those 20 seconds? A thousand people stood up so that the camera operator had to raise the camera, which vibrated every time the audience stamped and applauded. for those interested in reality, instead of the censored, CONTROLLED world cheat wants you to believe, here's the REAL video of what happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPOK9PIw-0
FindOutForYourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPOK9PIw-0

Stewart_Smith

Let me help

[youtube bBPOK9PIw-0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPOK9PIw-0 youtube]

Anon

If Canadians read in their paper that the Communist Party of China and the Chief Executive of Hong Kong are telling the citizens not to worry about democratic rights or elections becasue all that counts is the economy and stability I think they would be pretty disgusted but that is essentially what Harper is asking of Canadians.

Maybe Harper has decided to have closer links to China after all.
bergkamp

A thousand people at rally and only one sign about Rise Up? Feel the enthusiasm for Iggy!

Libs seem rahter indiffernt to their own leader and his campaign, no surprise no one else cares either.

And Libs are really stuck on stupid bringing out Chretien/Martin while Iggy is trying to get us to rise up against questionable government behaviour. Chreitien and Martin were masters at dodgy parliamentary behaviour, those two have forgotten more than Harper knows.

FindOutForYourself

A thousand people at a rally….a thousand people at the next….and thousand people at the one before that. Conservatives won't dare release their attendance numbers for real. wonder why. anyone checked out facebook? Mkre indicative of a current that's happening than polls which use preselected panels of the same people over and over, and ignore the majority of us who actually have heard of call display and all those of the under 40s with cellphones and skype. Good luck polling them.

but if you check, Iggy's the most popular on facebook, over 7000 ahead of Harper, and pulling ahead at a faster rate daily. jack is way behind by facebook standards but still packing on friends faster than Steve, so he's actually catching up these days.

and before you tell me facebook doesn't count, don't kid those of us who actually know how to use it and how powerful it is (and that means, most Canadians, more than any other country in the world), and all of us who have watched the political events around the world that have been fuelled by it.

No wonder Steve is afraid of facebook friendships. Go see for yourself.
Patchouli

Harper would trot out Mulroney but Mulroney, he won't go. He just plain doesn't like steve harper.
Proud Canadian

The facebook creeper ad has over 168 166 views so far. The most views of any election video I can find. I have been showing it to as many people as I can. Please do the same people. Social media is working and the CTV (conservative television network) cant do a thing about it. Must be pi**ing them off big time! My guess is that if harper gets a majority the voting age will be put up to 21 and he will allow bandwidth pricing to sky rocket. Just watch him!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6hDv6gCe1I&fe…
Jenn_

Here's an interesting list. Interesting, because I had forgotten most of them. There are just so many examples to keep track of, you know?

Harper's real record on the economy. Not the fantasy one he makes up and tells all his supporters about. http://www.pogge.ca/archives/003240.shtml?utm_sou…

Proud Canadian

And that's just the tip of the iceburg!!!!!

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

There appears to be a Liberal party operative, this time using the name "FindOutForYourself," who is trying to get you all to look at the Liberal produced version of the "rise up" clip. I've posted it below (newsflash to Liberal party: get agitators who know how to navigate the Internet. lol).

As you can see, Chet has posted the relevant clip from that scene. The Liberal version is longer, has music added to it, but doesn't change anything. After Iggy spends about a minute listing bogus accusations against the Tories, he shouts "rise up" for a prolonged period until they finally do, then they pause again, then they cheer again.

Heck, I guess when there's nothing else inspiring about this campaign, the Liberals have to cling to something, don't they. lol.

I also have to laugh at how Iggy keeps saying that this isn't about the Liberal party when that's precisely what it's about. They're doing badly in the polls. They have nothing else. They don't even have any positive proposal of their own. Just this rather pathetic nonsense, sorry to say. Enjoy.

[youtube bBPOK9PIw-0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPOK9PIw-0 youtube]

frobisher

Dennis, one would think a crack liberal operative would be able to embed a video, at least. Why not take this person at 'face value'? They might be correct, genuine or at least worth listening to without the usual dismissive 'next'. Anything that runs counter to the preferred "Harper! F*c& yeah!" narrative does really seem to irk you so.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

I'm now supposed to vouch for the quality of Liberal operatives on here, am I? lol

I've seen this tactic before. Post under an obviously misleading name. Link to a Liberal propaganda video versus raw footage. Vicious attacks against opponents who dare to fight back.

I feel a need to counter this. And this angers many of you. You want to throw eggs unchallenged. Too bad. You say you want democracy. Well, this is democracy. Free speech. Right?

frobisher

Aaaah, Dennis. You are the only one getting apoplectic over a lame video, fella. And, by the looks of it, the only one seeing "eggs thrown". Perhaps you know 'tactics" better than most. But, one suspects, those in the 'ignorance silos' only see a commenter trying to advance a point of view that appeals to them in a technically in-adept fashion. Stewart Smith helped this poster out, and that is commendable. You just heap slag. And, please, try to stop over-using 'vicious' to the point where its meaning gets lost.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

Who in the world are you trying to kid? You use the typical troll tactic of posting an obviously bogus name and using a false premise to hurl all kinds of vicious accusations against your opponents while praising those on your side. This isn't what Canadians are about. Sorry. In fact, it's why they're not paying attention. They're tired of these tactics of yours. They're not buying it.

By the way, there's no way there are a thousand people in that video. A guy can't handle a camera in a small room, and you make into an uprising. You're not doing much for your credibility. In fact, you're just showing the continued desperation of the Liberals and the opposition. You will do anything to get back power, and I think that's sad. Sorry .

Oh, and if you want to start gaining some credibility, you might want to sign your posts with your own name, like I do mine. Thanks.

FindOutForYourself

Wow, hit a nerve I guess. well, it doesn't matter who believes me, because I know who I am and apparently unlike you, I trust others reading any of this to be experienced enough to use their own judgement, whatever that ends up being.

But your swiftness in attacking me, accusing me of false pretenses, that memory will linger in my mind a long time. Your voice is angry, your accusations panicked, and I have lived long enough to understand what such bluster means in one who is confronted with uncomfortable truths.

If your behaviour and inability to engage me as a voting Canadian in a passioned but respectful manner represents
what the conservative party has to offer, then a double duty no thanks from me.

but there are plenty more undecided individuals for you to attack and attempt to intimidate. Perhaps you will have
more luck with them, or perhaps my faith in Canadians to think for themselves, to look past the media and spin of all the parties, to think seriously about the impact of policy and leadership on their future lives and health and the welfare and education and prospects of their children, perhaps my faith is not misplaced, and your invective is ineffective, at last.

Anyway, I've read enough to believe you are a "troll" as others say and so "squirrel" someone else if you can, 8've had my say on this lovely strange weather day.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

I sign my posts with my own name. You? And why not? Next.
FindOutForYourself

Ohh! I forgot! Post my name? are you kidding? What decent person dares to do that anymore, and get on steves list somewhere, for god knows what purpose.

No thanks, "Dennis"

Have a nice day everyone, whoever reads this. vote, please. and try to convince just one young person, or anyone who has never voted, to investigate the issues and vote this time.

inge

So Martin and Chretien are supporting and campaigning for Ignatieff. Just a matter of time I guess, till we'll see Mulroney, Clark, and Campbell doing the same for Harper!!

Jan

Steve's on his own – he has no friends in the conservative movement. Manning hasn't even endorsed him.

Proud Canadian

Never thought of that Jan. Good point. Manning (Harpers church leader BTW) was stabbed in the back by Harper as well. So let's count right wing leaders Harper has back stabbed so far, let's see…there's Peter McKay, Preston Manning, Brian Mulrony…..hmmmmmmm looks like a pattern has developed. If he does it to them just think of what he feels about us 'ordinary' Canadians.
nabob1

What do Mulroney, Clark, Campbell and Manning have to do with this election any way? The Conservative Party of Canada is a new party with Mr. Harper as it's first leader. You people are reaching at straws at this point. The CPC's don't need any help from the past. Too bad you people thought you did.

Brighton Bugler

Paul Martin and Ignatieff waste a Saturday in Edmonton trying to move up to 10% of the vote in 'selected ridings' Bring back Landslide Annie.
A_logician

As an Edmontonian with a landline, I received a telephone call from a Liberal campaign operation that started out something like "Hello, I'm Michael Ignatieff, and I'm persoanlly inviting you to hear me and former prime minister <skrrrrk> <skrrrrk> (etc.)".

I think the Liberals hired a Conservative to send out their voice mail.

Anon

Chances are high if they hired locally.

Anonaswell

I think the original tape references Pierre, but someone realized that may not attract as many Edmontonians, so they had to alter it.

frobisher

No, Dennis, shout the truth as you imagine it. In all caps bold, if you wish. Democracy, the marketplace of ideas and all that.

You say, "Then you have the gall to suggest that this election has something to do with democracy. No, it has everything to do with your side not having power. Plain and simple."

What are you talking about, anyway? No sides taken, aside from that of what appears to be an innocent wandering here who wants to post something they like. With which you seem to have a problem. Nothing whatsoever to do with 'my' side – whatever that may be – not having power. Things do seem to be a little pentagramicular (pentagramnic? Pentagramnular? Spell check likes none of these, oh well) these days, after all.

As for vicious, Lou said it best:

"Vicious. You hit me with a flower.
You do it every hour.
Oh, baby you're so vicious".
- Lou Reed
Realistic

Maybe Canadians should be singing the refrain, "Wise Up, Wise Up", when they see the libs bringing out the political dead to bolster their lagging campaign
Jan

Harper's subliminal sign – Dummy up, dummy up!
Proud Canadian

Hey Realistic, Suppose harper wiould call out Mulrony but……… I recall Mulrony saying the other day that you cant trust Harper! Pretty bad when Mulrony dosen't even trust you!!
canon70

Do the Cons have anyone they could bring out in public?
Jan

Charles McVety?
nabob1

How can Mr. Harper bring anyone out when the Conservative Party is a brand new party with Mr. Harper as it's first leader? What does Mr. Mulroney have to do with any of this?
Mike T.

Takes one to know one, as they say.
Thwim

In public, he said.
Anon

A thousand people in Edmonton!!!

Maybe something is happening on the ground that the polls are not catching.
Jan

I'm stumped then.
Anonaswell

Or maybe it's just the snacks at the italian cultural centre chosen as the venue. All the really important Libs in Edmonton are toiling away for Linda Duncan in yet another display of their political integrity.
Proud Canadian

weak response!