Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Stephen Harper and the Canada Health Act

by Aaron Wherry on Monday, April 18, 2011 1:32pm - 190 Comments

Greetings from the Northwest Territories, where the Conservative and Liberal campaigns have come to debate Stephen Harper’s feelings for the Canada Health Act.

Specifically, the Conservative side is demanding that the Liberal side pull an ad that suggests Mr. Harper once suggested aloud that the Canada Health Act be scrapped. The ad cites the Globe and Mail, but it now seems the comment in question should have been attributed to a different former president of the National Citizens Coalition. (The Globe has now added a correction to the article in question.)

The Conservatives further claim that Mr. Harper “has always supported the Canada Health Act.” There may be quibbles on that point to be found below in the backgrounder the Liberal campaign has distributed, which sets out their sourcing for the ad in question (including, er, Maclean’s) and other comments attributed to Mr. Harper.

Speaking with reporters here, Mr. Ignatieff said that if the Liberal ad is mistaken, necessary action will be taken. Indeed, the Liberals now say they will replace the “scrapped” quote from the current ad with one of the other comments cited here. Furthermore, they say they will post an online poll to ask Canadians which of Mr. Harper’s quotes should be used in the new cut.

Stephen Harper should come on the record and state what his views are about the Canada Health Act. Does he think it should be “scrapped”? “replaced”? “overhauled”?

In the English-language debate last week, he was openly musing about “alternative service delivery”.

The quote in question is widely reported by numerous national media outlets.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has cautiously avoided revealing details of federal plans for a renewed accord. In his previous role as vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, he was no fan of the blueprint for Canada’s public health care system, declaring in 1997: “It’s past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act.” (Maclean’s, January 31, 2011)

“Before he entered politics, when he was vice-president of the National Citizens’ Coalition, Mr. Harper said: “It’s past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act.” (Globe and Mail, August 26, 2010, Column written by André Picard public health reporter at The Globe and Mail)

In 1997, when Harper was vice-president of the National Citizens’ Coalition, a group obsessed with privatizing health care, he said: “Well I think it would be a good idea . . . Moving toward alternatives, including those provided by the private sector, is a natural development of our health care system.” In another interview that year, Harper said, ” It’s past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act.” (Calgary Herald, May 5, 2005)

Here are some other quotes to the same effect:

Harper wanted to “replace” the Canada Health and Social Transfer in his famous 2001 Firewall letter:

“Resume provincial responsibility for health care policy. If Ottawa objects to provincial policy, fight in the courts. If we lose, we can afford the financial penalties Ottawa might try to impose under the Canada Health Act. Albertans deserve better than the long waiting periods and technological backwardness that are rapidly coming to characterize Canadian medicine. Alberta should also argue that each province should raise its own revenue for health care — i.e., replace Canada Health and Social Transfer cash with tax points, as Quebec has argued for many years.”

(Stephen Harper, ‘Firewall’ letter, January 24, 2001)

In his 2002 Canadian Alliance Leadership campaign website, Harper wanted to “overhaul” the Act:

“Harper also believes that our health care will continue to deteriorate unless Ottawa overhauls the Canada Health Act to allow the provinces to experiment with market reforms and private health care delivery options. He is prepared to take tough positions including experimenting with private delivery in the public system.”

Others // autres:

“governments across this country have experimented with alternative service delivery….We’re not going to wave the finger at provinces because they experiment with different delivery.”

(English Language Leader’s Debate, April 12, 2011)

“We also support the exploration of alternative ways to deliver health care. Moving toward alternatives, including those provided by the private sector, is a natural development of our health care system.”

(Stephen Harper, Toronto Star, October 2002)

“Monopolies in the public sector are just as objectionable as monopolies in the private sector. It should not matter who delivers health care, whether it is private, for profit, not for profit or public institutions, as long as Canadians have access to it regardless of their financial means.”

(Stephen Harper, Hansard, Oct 1, 2002)

“each province should raise its own revenue for health care – i.e., replace Canada Health and Social Transfer cash with tax points.”

(Stephen Harper, ‘Firewall’ letter, January 24, 2001)

“What we clearly need is experimentation with market reforms and private delivery options [in health care].”

(Stephen Harper, then President of the NCC, 2001)

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  • JLPG

    BEST AD FOR LIBS/DEMS;

    PAGES UPON PAGES OF….HARPER'S UnCANADIAN QUOTEs!!!!

    ***** “Canada appears content to become a second-tier socialistic country, boasting ever more loudly about its economy and social services to mask its second-rate status.”

    Stephen Harper quotes (Canadian Politician, b.1959)

    *****“What we clearly need is experimentation with market reforms and private delivery options [in health care]."

    Stephen Harper, then President of the NCC, 2001

    WHY DOES HERR HARPER HATE CANADA SO MUCH?

    no wonder we lost the UN Security Council seat. He's an embarrassment!

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    I care.

    I'd like him on record now saying that he's not going to scrap or significantly alter the Canada Health Act so that at least if he ever tries to scrap or significantly alter the Canada Health Act we can all point to a quote of him saying, back in 2011, that he wasn't going to do that.

    As of this moment, based on all of the searching I've done, the Tories could introduce legislation to scrap the Canada Health Act the day after a Throne Speech and the Prime Minister could truthfully say "I said during the campaign that the Liberals were lying when they claimed that I had said that the Canada Health Act should be scrapped, and they were. I never said that. However, I also never said that we wouldn't scrap the Canada Health Act. I've ALWAYS thought that we should scrap the Canada Health Act, I've just never said that out loud before".

    I'm not saying that I'd BELIEVE the PM if he said that he has no intention of scrapping the Canada Health Act, I just want him to say so out loud so that we can throw that quote back in his face if he ever tries it.

    • Mike T.

      fair enough, but it is sad how far our leaders have fallen, is it not?

    • P_Maitland

      I agree, more clarity is needed here.

      Part of the clarity I would like to see is to have any one of the parties admit that the current growth in Healthcare spending is unsustainable. I want to hear something about what the solution is to reform the system to find efficiencies, or new models to achieve similar outcomes, or even to say 'We'll spend a lot of money taking care of the boomers, but spending is projected to decrease again after year 20XX, and we'll budget accordingly'.

      Simply saying that the existing Canada Health Act is sacrosanct and we are going to increase funding 6%/yr for the foreseeable future is no more clear or honest than "I haven't touched the Act, yet".

    • madeyoulook

      You want him to hold up a napkin with "NO 2-TIER HEALTH CARE" scribbled on it? That worked so well some other time, IIRC…

      • Mike T.

        I thought you said it was the jetski….

      • LdKitchenersOwn

        All I really want is a better answer than I've received.

        To me, every response I've seen from the Tories on this has the feeling that the Tories are trying to deny the issue at hand (that they may decided to mess with the CHA if reelected) without actually ever promising not to mess with the CHA if re-elected. Every quote I see has the feeling of a politician trying to convince the voters that they won't do X, while steadfastly avoiding saying "I won't do X".

        It has a similar feeling to me of every time Ignatieff denied the Coalition rumours, from January of 2009 (the first time he said he wasn't going to enter a Coalition) until he finally covered all of the bases on that Saturday after the election was called. Just like now, every line from the leader and his party until that Saturday had the feeling of a concerted effort to convince the electorate that the issue at hand was a third rail that they'd never dare touch, but very carefully without ever actually saying "I won't ever touch that".

  • gar

    Don't worry about your health a new Messiah has arrived from his 35 years in the wilderness RISE UP.RISE UP, RISE UP. RISE UP.Just arrived from the Jimmy Swaggart school of acting.If this wasn't the straw that broke the camels back with this over the top acting nothing will.He must have spent too much time at Harvard watching Howard Dean. We all know what that over the top act did for him.the only thing he did not do is appeal for funds to help him carry on his mission of saving us from Tory hell.

    • Patchouli

      Tory hell. You said it.

      • nabob1

        iggy and mr dithers in the backround jumped the shark this weekend.Looks goog on them…

  • OriginalEmily1

    LOL…it irritates Cons, that's why.

    • s_c_f

      There it is again.

      I once ran an experiment to see how many times you would reply just to get in the last word. It was unbelievable, you replied about 20 times.

      • OriginalEmily1

        LOL get a life.

  • Crit_Reasoning

    Oh, for heaven's sake. Ted, check this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_t…

    Recent polls that show the Liberals at or below 26%:

    Leger Marketing – April 17, 2011 – 26%
    Angus Reid Public Opinion – April 16, 2011 – 25%
    Forum Research – April 14, 2011 – 25%
    COMPAS – April 11, 2011 – 24%
    Ipsos Reid – April 7, 2011 – 26%
    Forum Research – April 6, 2011 – 25%
    Environics – April 5, 2011 – 25%
    Leger Marketing – April 2, 2011 – 25%
    EKOS Research Associates – March 31, 2011 – 26%
    Harris-Decima – March 27, 2011 – 24%
    Forum Research – March 27, 2011 – 24%

    Yes, Nanos consistently shows the Liberals at closer to 30%, but clearly this demolishes your earlier assertion that "The worst poll I've seen has them at 28% which is 2% above where they ended up under Dion."

    I hope this was educational for you, Ted.

    • tedbetts

      Poor, CR.

      Makes a statement that the Liberals are headed for their worst results in history. Polls show otherwise. Clearly so.

      So what's left to do? Nitpick about how some polls – some from quite a while ago too – almost show that what he said could be true.

      Oh, and Abacus came out today with 30%. And the regionals, even in the Leger and Angus Reid ones you post, show the Liberals increasing their seats.

      But what are facts and analysis of those facts when you have selective online polls!!

      • Crit_Reasoning

        Here's another one, just released:

        Ekos April 13-17: CPC 37.4, LPC 24.9, NDP 20.0, GPC 8.4, BQ 7.8

        Throughout this campaign, EKOS had a tendency to show higher LPC numbers than most other pollsters. No longer!

  • LdKitchenersOwn

    Can I ask again, because I still haven't found it and am less and less motivated to keep looking (though confident that a CPC supporter can find it if it's out there) are there any quotes, anywhere, of Stephen Harper (or a suitably high level Tory, perhaps the Minister of Health) stating that the PM and/or the Conservative Party do not believe that it's past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act? I can find indications that Stephen Harper never SAID that (or at least didn't say it in the time and place previously attributed to him saying it) but I have yet to find anything that indicates that the PM doesn't BELIEVE that.

    I can accept that Stephen Harper never said "It’s past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act". What I'd like to see is any indication that Stephen Harper doesn't believe this to be true, or even better, a clear statement that he and his government do not intend to scrap the Canada Health Act. From what I've found so far, the Tories could introduce legislation later this year to repeal the Canada Health Act and still honestly say that doing so doesn't technically go against anything they said during the election campaign.

    This is like the Coalition thing all over again. How long did Ignatieff spend trying to convince everyone that he had ruled out a coalition, all the while without ever technically ruling out a coalition (until, finally, he had no choice but to be completely clear and emphatic). I wonder, similarly, how long the Tories will work on convincing Canadians that they're not going to mess with the CHA, without ever actually stating that they're not going to mess with the CHA?

    • Holly Stick

      Well frankly, even if Harper did say he supported public health care, I would just assume he was lying. As far as I am concerned, he cannot be trusted on anything.

  • FVerhoeven

    Can you go any lower? Actually, I think you could, without doubt.

    • KeithBram

      I agree; nothing to do with the election – even if it turns out to be true (and so far it all seems to be malicious gossip).

  • PeteTong

    My understanding is that the Canada Health Act deters (rather than prohibits) provinces from allowing payment from sources other than goverment for medically necessary services. If a province does not comply with the CHA, the federal government can reduce the amount of money it transfers to the province for healthcare.
    Ontario and most (if not all) provinces have their own legislation designating medically necessary services as publically insured and making it illegal for people to pay for insured services. If the CHA were scrapped, each province would have to decide if they would want to change their legislation to allow for a patient payer system.

    It is also important to note that there is nothing in the CHA or provincial legislation that broadly prohibits private, for profit healthcare. Indeed physicians' practices (e.g. your family doctor's office) are private, for-profit corporations. In Ontario, the Independent Health Facilities Act and the Private Hospitals Act allow for a limited range of private facilities to offer publicy funded hospital-type services.

  • s_c_f

    You must be joking. So now if the lie is repeated often enough, it's OK. The BS defense has reappeared.

    I've already responded to that particular angle, which in my opinion is the worst possible defense you can imagine. http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/18/party-and-powe…

  • s_c_f

    You really are grasping at straws if you use that defense. Most objective people would claim that it's actually worse when a lie is repeated numerous times and none of the perpetrators do the necessary fact-checking. But to you, repeating a lie more often actually makes it more true. How quaint. You are so full of BS.

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      I just think "lie" is a bit too harsh a term for misattributing a quote is all.

      • s_c_f

        Of course it's a lie. If you say Harper said X, and Harper did not say X, then you're lying. It's especially bad when the CPC points it out and you still say it's true because he must have said it on some other occasion (which is also a lie).

        It's especially wrong if you put quotes around it. In that case, it's even worse. You're not only claiming he said it, you are claiming to reproduce the actual words, to give it even more credibility. If you are quoting someone, and the quote is false, then you are lying. Simple as that.

  • Holly Stick

    Meanwhile, Prime Minister Harper is lying about democracy:
    http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2011/04/15/how-is-the-me…

  • Aview

    Health Care is a bag of worms for all leaders and all canadians, and it appears its the provinces who control(?). Canada currently has a 2 tier health care program…no one can counter that fact unless you also believe our health care is free.
    There is a litany of debates on how to fix the cost and there appears to be no solutions except throw more dollars at it as new technologies and the undying Boomers increase the cost. We have to evaluate and look at new ideas – Harper did mention alternatives – maybe its a regional/district health policy where the "locals" pay for operational cost of their health facilities using say an additive to their Property Taxes…this way no leader or government has to wear the health cost anvil…

  • madeyoulook

    What's all this nonsense about health care? Why, just within the last decade, it was FIXED FOR A GENERATION! You could ask some fellow who occasionally shows up mugging for the cameras beside one Michael Ignatieff; he was the generation-fixer.

    Don't people remember their history?

    And once that gets settled, you could ask Mr. Ignatieff about the corporate tax rate question, then ask the generation-fixer about the country in which his big boats are registered.

  • http://www.idrinkinthemorning.com Rick Omen

    This whole episode is pretty despicable of the Liberals. It says way more about how desperate they are, than it says about Stephen Harper.

    The last time the Liberals needed to balance a budget, they axed healthcare funding. Are they going to do that again? Stephen Harper has, and has promised to continue to fund healthcare for Canadians. Michael Ignatieff can't say the same.

  • Ironic

    Talk about sour grapes. Stephen Harper just found out that Iggy did not come back for him. Lol

  • malta

    The Liberals have knowing misled the Canadian public. Where is the outrage. Where is the apology. How much of what the Liberals are saying can be beleived. Will the cancel the free trade agreement, the GST, do national day care. No they lied about those too. Paul Martin slashed healthcare spending. Will the Liberals do it again?

  • s_c_f

    Absolutely not. A lie is a lie is a lie, regardless of when it's challenged. What an absurd remark. You have absolutely no integrity.

  • Mike T.

    It is quite rich indeed for Harper to pretend to be upset over shadings and downright mistruths!

  • TwoYen

    The LIberals are in the gutter. They should be ashamed. Health care is an important issue and this ad demonstrates that the Liberals have no interest in a real debate over health care policy. I despair for my country.

  • Loraine Lamontagne

    "each province should raise its own revenue for health care – i.e., replace Canada Health and Social Transfer cash with tax points"

    Couldn't be clearer than the firewall letter – unless he now denies authoring this as well.

  • jonatwitan

    No, just that he is in a different position now, and so naturally has a different perspective.

    Kind of like Ignatieff considering himself an American when he's in American and a Canadian when he's in Canada. Unless he denies telling American's that America is their country, just as much as it is his.

    Yep, I suppose we can continue being children and keep pointing out ridiculous things about each other, or we can try to grow up and have an adult conversation. Seems to me that Harper is the most willing one to engage in that conversation, but instead of finding conversation partners, he mostly finds the attack dogs.

  • noob_goldberg

    Voters say they're turned off by these tactics. And yet…these tactics work.

    Which is why people keep using them.

  • Leo

    “What we clearly need is experimentation with market reforms and private delivery options [in health care].”

    Truth hurts but the sacred cow must be sheltered. MP Keith Martin has been pounding the table on this for years.

    As far as the ads go, everyone is busy taking things out of context.

  • FVerhoeven

    Darn right, Quebecers should have their own special rules. If Albertans would be allowed for implementing the same rules, Quebecers wouldn't feel special anymore.

    How dare Harper have asked for Alberta to be treated the same way as Quebec. Such non sense. Only Quebec is special. Great digging, Wherry! Great insights!

  • OriginalEmily1

    We can't have an 'adult conversation' as long as you make statements like that about Harper.

  • noob_goldberg

    There's no room in a campaign for an adult discussion. The real test will be whether or not we can have an adult discussion when the house resumes sitting.

    At this point, I'm not particularly optimistic.

  • KeithBram

    Uh, have you seen the CPC ads of the past decade?

    Iggy is supposed to have said that the Libs will correct the ad as soon as the CPC takes a similar approach to their misquotes and dishonesty. Let's see if the CPC step up to the challenge.

  • Loraine Lamontagne

    Harper is the first to blame. Harper has been unwilling to engage in any conversation. During this campaign he has restricted reporters from doing their work by limiting their questions to five. It's been like this since he became PM !

  • jonatwitan

    Exactly.

  • Loraine Lamontagne

    We can't have ab adult conversation, period – adult or otherwise – when candidates seeking election refuse to participate in public debates!

  • KeithBram

    Yes, because we all know the gutter rightfully belongs to the CPC. How dare they!
    ;-)

  • Blue

    We are doomed if the desperate Liberals get anywhere near power.

  • OriginalEmily1

    Then I guess you're SOL.

  • Amateur Hour

    Except that Harper won't be up front about it and hasn't been since becoming PM. He's waiting for a majority before he'll reveal what his plans are — hence the total lack of action on the file for 5 years.

  • Leo

    Can't really do much without a majority. NDP would fight tooth and nail against any changes. This could have been a Tory/Lib cooperative issue, but instead it is just another political sound byte.

  • Just a thought…

    The result of Harper giving the tax cuts to the corporations will be him telling the provinces in 2014 `Sorry we are out of money because we spent it on Jets and cannot give you any for health care so make some serious cuts and introduce private alternatives if you want your people to have access to health care. Just to remind you this is a provincial matter so we are not responsible for it`

    Trickle Down Economics Do Not Work.

    Corporations are meant to maximize profits for the shareholders not create jobs. In the corporate world by law all decisions must be made in the best interest of the shareholders not the Canadian Public. Tax cuts are just used to pad the profit margins until cheaper labor can be attained outside of Canada.

    Corporate Tax Cuts = Corporate Bailouts

    Small Corporate Businesses
    $500,000 (Average Income) x 1.5% (Corporate Tax Cut) = $7500/year Savings

    Large Corporations
    $100,000,000 (Average Income) x 1.5% (Corporate Tax Cut) = $1,500,000/year Savings

    Can a small business create jobs with that?

  • Amateur Hour

    So your retort is that 5 years of inaction by the Harper government is really the liberal's fault?

    That's a new one.

  • OriginalEmily1

    Very true…and one of the biggest complaints in this campaign is that Harper won't talk to anyone ….not the public, and not the media….so there won't be any conversation.

  • gottabesaid

    These days, I'm not sure if we can have an adult discussion about adult discussions, let alone adult discussions about health care.

  • jonatwitan

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US0AsCuvfF8

    pertinent bit is at 28 seconds.

  • noob_goldberg

    Did you catch the Ottawa Citizen/Postmedia article on the MP's exit interviews?

    That was definitely some food for thought. The useful things MP's accomplish on the hill are not public, and the public things they do are not useful. You'd think all MP's would want to have an adult discussion about how to address that.

  • lgarvin

    Didn't you announce earlier today that this place is not worthy of your time?

    Did something happen to lower the value of your time?

  • Memi2

    The Republican Party of Canada (CRAP) will never get a Majority!

    A B C

  • Crit_Reasoning

    I haven't seen a single poll that puts the Liberals at lower than the 2008 election. In fact, all of them show the Liberals up.

    Go to http://threehundredeight.blogspot.com and scroll down to the table on the bottom.

  • tedbetts

    There's a lot there, and many tables on the bottom so I'm not sure which one you want me to look at specifically.

    Regardless, they all show the same thing: the Liberals at a minimum are heading for slightly better. The worst poll I've seen has them at 28% which is 2% above where they ended up under Dion.

  • Crit_Reasoning

    I was referring to the table that lists all the recent polls that go into their projections, along with the weightings.

    For example, the QMI poll that was released this morning shows the Liberals at 26%, below their popular vote in 2008.

    Other polls in that table show the Liberals even lower than 26%. More than half of the polls in that table show the LPC at 28% or below.

  • FVerhoeven

    So you couldn't spot the difference? That's good. Social bot-working does work wonders then.

    You see, I, too, have turned on the social-bot machine. No more thinking necessary. Just you guys thinking that a real person does the replying.

    Ain't it fun, communicating to social-bots?

  • lgarvin

    No more thinking necessary. Just you guys thinking that a real person does the replying.

    I'm glad you've found your niche. Congratulations on your … success(?)

  • SanDiegoDave

    You have absolutely no faith that Canada, its institutions, its people, its way of life will not survive 4 to 5 years with the Liberals holding a majority? You have that little faith in Canada?

    Shocking.

  • Blue

    Hey, I have spent most of my life living with a Liberal gov`t in power and I am aware that for the most part they were a competent gov`t, however they have done some things over the past 10 years that tell me they would be a poor substitute for power right now.

    Because of their scattered allegiances, lack of direction, and poor leadership, I fear our way of life would suffer under a weakened Liberal gov`t.

    Check back with me in 4 years.

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