Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Stephen Harper and the Canada Health Act

by Aaron Wherry on Monday, April 18, 2011 1:32pm - 190 Comments

Greetings from the Northwest Territories, where the Conservative and Liberal campaigns have come to debate Stephen Harper’s feelings for the Canada Health Act.

Specifically, the Conservative side is demanding that the Liberal side pull an ad that suggests Mr. Harper once suggested aloud that the Canada Health Act be scrapped. The ad cites the Globe and Mail, but it now seems the comment in question should have been attributed to a different former president of the National Citizens Coalition. (The Globe has now added a correction to the article in question.)

The Conservatives further claim that Mr. Harper “has always supported the Canada Health Act.” There may be quibbles on that point to be found below in the backgrounder the Liberal campaign has distributed, which sets out their sourcing for the ad in question (including, er, Maclean’s) and other comments attributed to Mr. Harper.

Speaking with reporters here, Mr. Ignatieff said that if the Liberal ad is mistaken, necessary action will be taken. Indeed, the Liberals now say they will replace the “scrapped” quote from the current ad with one of the other comments cited here. Furthermore, they say they will post an online poll to ask Canadians which of Mr. Harper’s quotes should be used in the new cut.

Stephen Harper should come on the record and state what his views are about the Canada Health Act. Does he think it should be “scrapped”? “replaced”? “overhauled”?

In the English-language debate last week, he was openly musing about “alternative service delivery”.

The quote in question is widely reported by numerous national media outlets.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has cautiously avoided revealing details of federal plans for a renewed accord. In his previous role as vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, he was no fan of the blueprint for Canada’s public health care system, declaring in 1997: “It’s past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act.” (Maclean’s, January 31, 2011)

“Before he entered politics, when he was vice-president of the National Citizens’ Coalition, Mr. Harper said: “It’s past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act.” (Globe and Mail, August 26, 2010, Column written by André Picard public health reporter at The Globe and Mail)

In 1997, when Harper was vice-president of the National Citizens’ Coalition, a group obsessed with privatizing health care, he said: “Well I think it would be a good idea . . . Moving toward alternatives, including those provided by the private sector, is a natural development of our health care system.” In another interview that year, Harper said, ” It’s past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act.” (Calgary Herald, May 5, 2005)

Here are some other quotes to the same effect:

Harper wanted to “replace” the Canada Health and Social Transfer in his famous 2001 Firewall letter:

“Resume provincial responsibility for health care policy. If Ottawa objects to provincial policy, fight in the courts. If we lose, we can afford the financial penalties Ottawa might try to impose under the Canada Health Act. Albertans deserve better than the long waiting periods and technological backwardness that are rapidly coming to characterize Canadian medicine. Alberta should also argue that each province should raise its own revenue for health care — i.e., replace Canada Health and Social Transfer cash with tax points, as Quebec has argued for many years.”

(Stephen Harper, ‘Firewall’ letter, January 24, 2001)

In his 2002 Canadian Alliance Leadership campaign website, Harper wanted to “overhaul” the Act:

“Harper also believes that our health care will continue to deteriorate unless Ottawa overhauls the Canada Health Act to allow the provinces to experiment with market reforms and private health care delivery options. He is prepared to take tough positions including experimenting with private delivery in the public system.”

Others // autres:

“governments across this country have experimented with alternative service delivery….We’re not going to wave the finger at provinces because they experiment with different delivery.”

(English Language Leader’s Debate, April 12, 2011)

“We also support the exploration of alternative ways to deliver health care. Moving toward alternatives, including those provided by the private sector, is a natural development of our health care system.”

(Stephen Harper, Toronto Star, October 2002)

“Monopolies in the public sector are just as objectionable as monopolies in the private sector. It should not matter who delivers health care, whether it is private, for profit, not for profit or public institutions, as long as Canadians have access to it regardless of their financial means.”

(Stephen Harper, Hansard, Oct 1, 2002)

“each province should raise its own revenue for health care – i.e., replace Canada Health and Social Transfer cash with tax points.”

(Stephen Harper, ‘Firewall’ letter, January 24, 2001)

“What we clearly need is experimentation with market reforms and private delivery options [in health care].”

(Stephen Harper, then President of the NCC, 2001)

Bookmark and Share
  • Blues Clair

    A junior Liberal staffer must resign!

    • Andrew (not PorC)

      To be fair, this seems like a cock-up on the part of the journalist.

    • WaterlooAl

      Sorry the Liberal party doesn't throw people under the bus.

  • OriginalEmily1

    Ooh -10….you'll have to count on hot air to stay warm!

  • TwoYen

    Ther is nothing inconsistent with supporting both universal health coverage and alternative service delivery. Indeed many provinces including BC and Quebec support this under the Canada Health Act. The Liberals should be ashamed of themselves.

    • Anon

      Being paid by the post?

    • Amateur Hour

      Yet in 5 years in power, Harper has held ZERO first ministers meetings and done nothing to address the substance or structure of the Canada Health Act. His avowed position is to terminate it, and let the Provinces and private sector go it alone. He needs a majority to ram through such a program and he hasn't got one — nor does he have the support of the Provinces.

      He deserves to be called out for being a Provincialist and for being too chicken to say as PM what he's said as an MP, head of the NCC and as leader of the Opposition.

      • Style

        But that's not his position. He thinks Provinces should raise their own revenue for health care, to be delivered under the principles of the Canada Health Act, particularly universal access. That should include alternative service delivery.

        • Mike T.

          which provinces will receive the smaller tax cuts to make sure they can all raise enough?

          What happens when six provinces can't build hospitals?

          • Style

            Is he scrapping equalization? All provinces see their provincial taxes go up under Harper's proposal, offset by a cut in federal taxes. That's what tax room means.

          • Mike T.

            Which provinces get the bigger cuts so they can take on the increased capital costs of hospitals?

        • Amateur Hour

          You're describing his position when he was advocating for Alberta. He has put forward a variety of positions before and since as an MP (Reform and Alliance), head of the NCC, a party leader and then as Leader of the Opposition.

          What he HASN'T clarified is what his position is as PM. Now that he's been running the government for 5 years, he really should be in a potion to propose something substantive on the file (he sure had lots of opinions before). Instead, he won't even mention it — and has refused to sit down with the Premiers and discuss what he'd like to see take shape post 2014. Possibly because the only other politician who shares his vision is the leader of the Separatists.

          Regardless of what position he takes on health care, cutting out the Federal role in funding healthcare would require scrapping the Canada Health Act and replacing it with something else. Harper's just too much of a weasel to admit it until he has the wall of a majority to hide behind. Same goes for the long-gun registry, Senate reform and every other issue that requires he build some kind of support for policy among the Provinces. He won't work with or negotiate with anyone — he wants to receive popular acclimation and make changes from his lonely, darkly-lit office — all by himself.

          • Style

            He's committed to 6% growth in the transfer. And not having the First Minister's meetings does not seem to have drastically undermined our health system. If anything, fed-prov relations and the health system both seem to have improved.

          • Amateur Hour

            "He's committed to 6% growth in the transfer. "

            Weeks into the election. Why nothing while IN GOVERNMENT for 5 years?

          • Jan

            This just in – he says he plans to meet with the provinces – see if they can get some of those costs down. Nobody knows how to reduce spending like our Steve.

          • Style

            Because the current arrangement lasts until 2014. What crisis called for it to be re-examined in the last five years?

          • Jan

            The accord that Martin brought in and which guaranteed the funding until 2014 called for the provinces and the feds to continue to work together to work on escalating pharmacare costs and increasing homecare availability. Apart from continuing the funding Harper has done nothing.
            We are facing a huge crisis in healthcare which requires leadership, not putting it on the backburner. He has shown no leadership on this.

          • Holly Stick

            Harper is incapable of working with other people.

          • Style

            Why is it the federal government's role to provide leadership on this? Are the provinces running into a problem that requires federal intervention? If so, what is it and why haven't they pressed for that intervention?

          • Mike

            We are only voting him as PM, not King or God or Dictator. Even with majority he can propose change to policy but his detractors will still have a voice and as PM the finger points directly at HIM.
            No matter what decission for change there will always be differences of opinion.
            Why change? What do you think we are voting for. What I want is a reversal of crime. I want the death penalty brought back and used until there are no more repeat criminals. If charged with a crime you don't vote. Without paying taxs or tax fraud you are a criminal. Caught with guns on the street pistol or other your a criminal. Illigal drugs (using or selling), criminal.
            There are other problems but you get where I'm coming from.
            Everybodys got an excuse for drinking and driving , texting while driving. Criminal.
            You say it's a police state. I have no problem with that, it isn't me they are bothering, just you.
            The chances of me getting my wish are nil as too many criminals are out looking for another victim to plunder and they have access to computers to whine about nanny state and their rights.

          • Amateur Hour

            "We are only voting him as PM, not King or God or Dictator. "

            Technically, he's running as an MP in Calgary SW.
            Just sayin'.

            "You say it's a police state. I have no problem with that, it isn't me they are bothering, just you."

            You didn't have your hard working, tax-paying neighbours roughed up by out of town cops in their own neighbourhood during the G20, did you? You didn't see your neighbours bashed with clubs and shields and detained without charge for having the audacity to go to lunch kilometres from "the fence" and the "designated protest area" — AFTER the G20 meeting had ended, did you? I also bet you didn't listen to cops from all over the country laughing in the days before the G20 about the free-for-all pass they were being given. Then they packed up, left for their home cities and provinces, and never had to show a lick of evidence to support their actions.

  • noob_goldberg

    Perhaps the CPC should just refresh their old Michael Ignatieff ad:

    Do I, Michael Ignatieff, believe we should pull our ad? YES YES YES!
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/otta…

    • FVerhoeven

      The Harper quote used in the Lib ad was not out of context: the Libs used a quote which could not be attributed to Harper.

      You not understanding the difference tells me more about yourself than it does about Harper or the Conservative mindset.

      Ah, and we all know Jane Taber's mindset – pretty shallow at best.

      • noob_goldberg

        I'm not defending the Liberal quote, and indeed I was one of the first in here to state that the offending quote should be removed. It was quite obvious that it was not appropriate.

        But if you can't see what a misattributed quote has in common with a completely fabricated quote, such as the one I linked to, then there's really no hope.

  • FVerhoeven

    Aren't we lucky, Wherry, that Ignatieff's been out of the country for soooo long. That way he can't be quoted on anything Canadian.

    Harper ba,ba,ba,ba,ba,ba,b,ab,b,a,ba,bad! Good article, Wherry!

  • W.B.

    Hey Libs. Demand they pull the IPod ad, and a few others. Then run a nice scroll of Harper quotes on a variety of issues, maybe 15 or one after another. Fight back Libs.

  • JamesHalifax

    So, Aaron, it is clear that the Liberals LIED in this add, and it's just as clear that they knew they were LYING when they created it. This isn't just a spin on words here, this is bald-faced fabrication.

    yep….gotta love those Liberal values.

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      Really?

      They took a quote from the Globe and Mail. The Globe and Mail now admits that THEY (the G&M) misattributed the quote. I don't disagree that the Liberals should have been more careful in their vetting of the ad, but if the nation's largest paper quotes Harper saying X I don't think it's outrageous of a political party to run an ad (in which they cite the G&M as the source) saying that "Harper said X".

      At the very least it's not "lying" unless they KNEW that the Globe story was wrong when they quoted it, and I certainly see no evidence that the Liberals knew ahead of time that the Globe story they were quoting was incorrect.

      • FVerhoeven

        But Ms.Oda was lying? CIDA didn't think Oda had been lying? Why the double standard, Lord?

        Why always the double standard??

    • http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

      As an NDP voter hoping hopelessly for a Liberal win, I am 100% willing to let "number and depth of lies told" be the deciding factor in this election.

  • Crit_Reasoning

    As Kady O'Malley points out:

    "Alright, so now it's time for #LPC to ACKNOWLEDGE that it relied on false information and remove the quote, or pull the ad.

    • noob_goldberg

      I think that's perfectly reasonable. It would at least provide some sort of standard when it comes to dealing with all attack ads in the future.

      • OriginalEmily1

        Just as soon as the Cons do the same.

        • noob_goldberg

          Why wait? They got double the media exposure they probably would have if this quote was not included, and now they can only lose if they keep running it in rotation.

          And then the high-road becomes theirs again.

          • OriginalEmily1

            I agree….huge publicity drawing public attention to Harp's musings on healthcare…all of them…and the whole episode demonstrates his hypocrisy on attack ads.

        • FVerhoeven

          Sorry, Emily, but Ignatieff really did live outside of Canada for 35 years!!! It's a fact.

        • lgarvin

          Wrong answer.

          • OriginalEmily1

            They can …and just did apparently…substitute Harper's other remarks. They're all pretty much the same.

          • lgarvin

            Yeah, I am pleased about that.I wasn't pleased when Ignatieff's initial response was "they have to be honest first." It was the wrong answer and I'm glad to see it was corrected so quickly. Ignatieff is improving in leaps & bounds as far as campaign politics is concerned. It's very encouraging that he has been able to learn from his mistakes. Maybe too little, too late, but still worthy of respect.

          • OriginalEmily1

            Yeah, he is. It's a special skill-set you can only learn by doing…we'll have to see if it works, I guess.

    • Jan

      Easy peasy, if that Globe and Mail quote is inaccurate, it can be easily substituted – there are plenty to choose from.
      Seems very hypocritical of Harper though, don't you think? And why would he want to draw even more attention to his attitude towards healthcare funding.

      • s_c_f

        "there are plenty to choose from. "

        No there aren't. None of the quotes they found comes even close.

        • madeyoulook

          Doesn't matter, in politics. "Harper wants to kill off doctors and nurses" will now stick, no matter what ad gets run in the next weeks.

  • gottabesaid

    As someone who hates attack ads, I love it when attack ads backfire and bite the attacker in the a**. Love it.

    • noob_goldberg

      If only it was true. The CPC was taken to task for a few incorrect attack ads, and it had no public opinion repercussions for them. It's usually just a way to get more free advertising from media.

      • gottabesaid

        Geez, can't a guy have his moment?

        • noob_goldberg

          I gave you 5 minutes.

          That's an eternity in politics. :D

      • Mike T.

        silly noob, acountability is for Liberals!

    • madeyoulook

      The message that Harper has it in for the surgeon who should be taking out your rotten appendix will stick. It is smarmy and dishonest, but it is still a win for the Liberals.

      PS: I gave you 4 hours, just to show you how reasonable I can be…

      • gottabesaid

        My appendix is rotten? Sh*t!

  • noob_goldberg

    Not pull the ad, just the quote. They could probably replace it with something else Harper said.

    Really, it would only take a few seconds.

    • Crit_Reasoning

      I'd be happy if they pulled the quote. Even though whole ad is based on desperate fearmongering, the quote itself is the most egregious part of it because it's been proven to be false.

      • noob_goldberg

        I will admit to shaking my head when I saw the ad, as it reminded me of the desperation in the 2006 Martin campaign.

        That said, I'm really curious what impact it will have on the contest. We all hate attack ads, but they can be brutally effective, and Harper has definitely gotten off easy in that regard over the past few years.

        • jonatwitan

          contest?

          • noob_goldberg

            Election, contest, game, war, match, battle, challenge etc. It's all the same thing.

      • Jan

        CR comes out against desperate fearmongering! Only if the Libs do it though.

      • tedbetts

        The quote was taken from a reliable source and has been out there on the web, without commentary or criticism or correction from Harper or the Conservatives, for years and years and years, it was from his boss and he has said similar things (though not that particular quote). So to whine that this is egregious is totally ridiculous.

        Anyway, they are pulling that quote so you should be happy now.

        Hopefully replace it with any of the many many other quotations that are from Harper in which he says the Canada Health Act should be gutted.

        • KeithBram

          CR did have a point, and I'm glad to hear they are pulling the quote.

          They ought to make a big deal of it though – voiceover:

          "The Liberal Party of Canada would like to apologize for inadvertantly misattributing the quote “It’s past time the feds scrapped the Canada Health Act.” to Mr. Harper. While he has said similar things, this particular quote is from someone else.

          "We do not intentionally mislead with our quotes, and are honest enough to admit our errors."

          - as a series of genuine Harper quotes or a list of CPC lies scrolls across the screen…

          • tedbetts

            Good news. You're brilliant.

            Because that is pretty much exactly what the Liberals did.

            'You don't like that conservative quote on healthcare? OK. Which one of the many many anti-Canada Health Act, anti-Canadian healthcare system quotations from Harper should we use then? Here they are. Have your pick."

          • tedbetts

            "Which is your favourite Harper quote on health care? / Quelle est votre citation préférée de Stephen Harper sur la santé?

            For Immediate Release April 18, 2011

            OTTAWA – The Liberal Party of Canada is inviting all Canadians to take part in an online poll to select their favourite Harper quote on health care at lpc.ca/bestquote. The winning quote will be included in an updated version of the “Health Risk” ad.

            Stephen Harper has a lifetime of comments that show his opposition to universal public health care in Canada, including as recently as last week’s federal leaders’ debate. [cont.]"

          • tedbetts

            I've left 3 or 4 comments, Keith and they keep disappearing.

            Anyway, short end of it was that you are prescient since that is almost exactly what they did: "Which is your favourite Harper quote on health care?

            For Immediate Release
            April 18, 2011

            OTTAWA – The Liberal Party of Canada is inviting all Canadians to take part in an online poll to select their favourite Harper quote on health care at lpc.ca/bestquote. The winning quote will be included in an updated version of the “Health Risk” ad.

            Stephen Harper has a lifetime of comments that show his opposition to universal public health care in Canada, including as recently as last week’s federal leaders’ debate."

            They then list a bunch of anti-Canada Health Act, anti-Canadian healthcare quotations from Harper.

          • KeithBram

            Looks like there was just a delay; they are all here now.

            Maybe it's time to quit my day job! :-D

  • tedbetts

    Why? What's untrue about it? Look at what Harper has said over the years about health care and the Canada Health Act.

    The Conservatives have been desperately trying to bury Harper's past, and with the able assistance of the media, especially in the last three elections.

    But this is what is at stake in this election. Harper says we get paradise if he gets a majority. The reality of a Conservative majority is a perfectly fair topic for an ad.

    • Crit_Reasoning

      It's becoming a bit of a tradition at this point, isn't it? The Liberals are behind by twelve points with two weeks to go, and they're in danger of getting the lowest popular vote in their 144-year history. So they rely on desperate fear-mongering in a last-ditch effort to stave off a CPC majority.

      What's next, I wonder? An abortion ad? A capital punishment ad?

      • noob_goldberg

        I almost spit out my coffee when I saw Kinsella pushing that fear-mongering crap in a column over the weekend.

        Most days, I'm of the opinion that Warren is actively trying to sabotage the LPC campaign, but that stupid column went way too far.

        • Crit_Reasoning

          I read Kinsella's column as a tacit admission that the Liberals have basically thrown in the towel, and they're pulling out all the stops to try to stop a CPC majority.

          I agree that it sometimes seems like Kinsella is trying to sabotage the LPC campaign, given his acrimonious dispute with the OLO, but not even Kinsella wants a CPC majority (with the inevitable elimination of the per-vote subsidy). So he's relying on the old fear-mongering schtick that worked so well for him in the Chretien war room.

          • noob_goldberg

            It was a blatant admission, not a tacit one, and with a couple of weeks left to go it was really uncalled for.

            Kinsella's a little too full of himself; he led the war room against a divided right. All he had to do was keep them both off balance and he'd easily get a majority. His tactics didn't work for Martin and won't work for Ignatieff because the opponent is different. It's probably best for everyone (except Harper) if he just shuts up for a while. He really seems overly panicky.

          • Crit_Reasoning

            I totally agree that Kinsella is smug and overrated, given that an inanimate carbon rod could have led the LPC war room against a divided right.

            I think Kinsella is setting himself up to say "I told you so" when the internecine squabbling begins after another humiliating Liberal defeat. He repeatedly warned the Liberals not to trigger an election, given the poll numbers.

          • noob_goldberg

            Your points are well taken. I'm sure many here would think that I'm a Liberal from my posts, but I truly haven't yet figured out who I'm going to vote for. My local MP is almost assured a win, so my vote counts only as a $2 subsidy to a particular party. I definitely have a history of voting for the underdog. I remember literally running to the voting booth in 2006 to case my ballot for Brett Barr.

            However, what I do want is an election night that's really interesting, as opposed to one that's completely predictable. I really do hate it when any of the parties pull up lame, as it destroys the fun of election night. I remember being one of the most visceral critics of Ignatieff the day the confidence vote was held when he couldn't deal with the coalition question, because I didn't want another Dion campaign.

          • Jan

            Kinsella din't work on Martin's campaign. He's not too fond of that crew.

      • Jan

        I get it CR – Harper sets the terms of the election. We mustn't talk about anything but the disaster that would occur if he doesn't get a majority.

      • tedbetts

        It's becoming a bit of a tradition at this point, isn't it? The Conservatives can't get widespread support from Canadians, and they're in danger of missing a majority yet again. So they rely on desperate fear-mongering in a last-ditch effort to get a CPC majority.

        What's next, I wonder? An ad about a phantom coalition? A ipod tax ad? A claim that only a CPC majority can hold back separatism in Quebec?

        • KeithBram

          "A claim that only a CPC majority can hold back separatism in Quebec?"

          Harper trotted that one out on the weekend. Not an ad yet (as far as I know), but he has said it.

          • tedbetts

            He's said all three and two them have been in ads already.

            I've been laughing a lot today with all the conservative whining about "fearmongering" and "it's not fair" and "out of context".

      • FVerhoeven

        "An abortion ad? A capital punishment ad? "

        Yup, it's coming.

        Have you not read Warren Kinsella's latest? The light weight is at it again, having found energy renewed. Kinsella is seeing a glimmer of hope. The Liberals may gain a seat or two!! :))
        http://www.edmontonsun.com/comment/columnists/war…

    • FVerhoeven

      Harper has never said we get paradise if he gets a majority.

      Harper has said, however, that a majority government will provide stability. ]

      And it will.

      It won't be Canadian stability when Iggy starts handing over the balance of power to the BQ.

      • tedbetts

        You are naive and drinking too much kool-aid.

        Look, I voted for and campaigned for Mike Harris in 1995 and 1999. I did so because I thought he was best for the time and circumstances we were in and because of the other leaders.

        But his majority did not bring stability. And Harper's majority will not bring stability. That's just more of the same make it up as they go stuff from the Captain of Deceipt.

        The one and only reason I think a majority wouldn't be that bad is because it would once and for all prove what an incompetent, big spending, hypocrite and anti-democratic promise breaking liar and divider Harper really and fundamentally is to his core. And people like you wouldn't have the excuses of a minority government to pretend is the reason he has acted as he has the last 5 years.

  • OriginalEmily1

    Excellent solution….they have plenty of Harp health quotes to choose from

  • tony

    all these so called managers of campaigns should be fired
    on the spot for coming up with this crap
    i still dont know what these jokers stand for
    and leave our health system alone
    i dont needyour friends rich on the backs of canadians

  • FVerhoeven

    Anyone who would listen to your suggestions would be a fool. I am not a fool

    • Patchouli

      Oh, you're a fool.

      • FVerhoeven

        Hi, Patchouli, little warrior. Sitting behind the bush with cook Emily in tow? Have the arrows sharpened, the warpaint applied? Have mirrors there, behind the bushes.

        Little kids playing little kid's games. I love wasting my time on this. It's like reading fiction. Great lines. Great plot. A little simplistic, but an easy read.

      • Jan

        It was a quote from the Globe and Mail. Don't worry, there are others.

        • FVerhoeven

          Oh, I'm not worried; I know there are many more misquotes used to discredit Harper.

          As long as reporters are willing to dig, and dig freely enough, the CBC and the G&M will be caught red-handed several times over. Iggy's a fake and some in the media are afraid to admit to it, knowing that they have supported the guy from day one. It is not so easy to bet one's reputation on a fake and to then have to admit the fakeness. Reputations are at stake. Oh, reputations are at stake!

          • Jan

            Interesting Harper never complained about being mis-quoted in the G&M…

          • LdKitchenersOwn

            The Calgary Herald misattributed the quote to Harper too, and before either the CBC or G&M had, I believe.

          • lgarvin

            This is hilarious. What is your understanding of what Harper thinks of our health care system. Where are the "accurate" quotes that support your version of Harper's policy. This is a sincere challange. If you think Harper's position has been misrepresented then please present it accurately.

            I won't hold my breath but I do wonder if you can support your outrage with a factual rebuttal.

      • Mike T.

        Seems like an enormous amount of trouble to go to ensure the same amount still gets to everyone who needs it.

        C'mon which provinces are the losers?

        • Style

          I don't think you understand how either equalization or the health transfer works.

    • OriginalEmily1

      Actually, you're a Somalian who doesn't want to live with the results of your philosophy.

      • FVerhoeven

        Very deep, cook Emily. Capable of thinking that deep when stirring the pot. Some soup you're cooking, I bet.

        • OriginalEmily1

          Tsk tsk…Africa puts you in mind of cooking pots eh?

          Hey, you advertised the dare….I dared you…you welshed.

  • FVerhoeven

    It has been said that the "Rise up, rise up" style of doing politics is quite American. But then, living in the US for that long does rub off on style, over time……….not?

    • Andrew (not PorC)

      Since when did Conservatives become the anti-Americans in Canada?

      • KeithBram

        Plenty of Cons admire and are envious of Americans… and so they are jealous of those who get to try the lifestyle on for a while.
        But perhaps his biggest offense is that he gave up their dream life to come back – which implies there – gasp! – must be something wrong with the land of their dreams. How dare Iggy cast such aspersions! He must be punished!

  • noob_goldberg

    Is anyone going to leak the Christiane Ouimet report from Deloitte?

    I'd love to see what's in there.

  • s_c_f

    Absolutely none of those quotes are equivalent to the original quote. Not even close. Scrapping the health act is not even nearly the same as trying alternative methods of delivery.

    The Liberals are in the gutter here, and as usual, rather than own up to their mistake, rather than display even a modicum of integrity, they've dug themselves a deeper gutter. What else might we expect from the party of Adscam. Mr. Wherry, the partisan that he is, who pretends to call for civility in the House and improvements to our democracy, once again reveals that he's just another Liberal party cheerleader, and in reality has no qualms with gutter politics and lying attack ads. He's in the gutter with them.

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      You do realize that both the Globe and Mail and the Calgary Herald attributed that quote to Harper before the Liberals did, right?

      • s_c_f

        Yes, they did. That doesn't excuse the Liberals however, because the Liberals also published the quote, therefore they are also responsible for ensuring the authenticity, which apparently nobody bothered to even try.

        • LdKitchenersOwn

          I guess I'm just not as picky as you. I certainly expect the Liberals to vet their ads, but finding a quote in two separate papers before using it seems fair enough to me. Certainly enough to not warrant calling the Liberals "liars" over it.

          I'm also still waiting for the PM/CPC to go beyond "Harper never said that" to "Harper doesn't think that", but I rather suspect I'll never get the latter, because my belief is that the latter isn't true.

          • s_c_f

            Well, by your standards, the Liberals might as well be repeating stuff from the National Enquirer in their ads, if the only standard for truth that you expect is that somebody else said it.

            I would expect a little more from a group of party who wish to run the country.

          • lgarvin

            I would expect a little more from a group of party who wish to run the country.

            But you accept so much less from the party that does run the country. Why is that exactly?

          • s_c_f

            No I don't. Are you gonna run with the usual assortment of false scandals now? Puhleaze. The false equivalence game is old. So is the "but he/she did it too" defense.

            Yeah, Harper pocketed a wafer. OMG. Oh wait, that was another media lie. But he wouldn't let Suuad Mohamud in the country. Wait, oh yeah, the media lied about that story too. OK, but they put the word "not" on that document. OMG. The word "not" was just so much worse than a national campaign ad with a out-and-out false quote! You are so correct. Not.

            The Liberals don't have the slightest bit of integrity compared to the other parties.

          • lgarvin

            You know, those communion wafers are pretty thin… I think you've ground that one right into fine powder by now. As it happens, I did agree that that particular scandelette was ridiculous and (if you check) I believe I said so at the time. But I've let it go… it no longer keeps me awake long into the night cursing and muttering and grinding my teeth. I hope, someday, that you too will find peace.

            That's point one. (If I had the time, I feel that I could write one hell of rant right now, but domestic responsibilities are looming, so I'll have to keep this brief.)

            Point the second. You seem very exorcised at "the media" for overblowing some of the minor Tory missteps that you list (none of the biggies serving your point, I guess) but you flat out refuse to assign any blame to the same media for their part in this gross distortion of the sacred truth. It doesn't matter, to you, that the Liberals quoted Harper in good faith relying on two separate sources. Your lofty standards … for the Liberals, requires even more diligence then that. They must, presumably, have to have it on video tape, plus written out in Harper's own handwriting, witnessed by two or more Supreme Court Justices and sealed in an envelope with Harper's own spit (to be confirmed with DNA testing). Now that's the Conservative standard of INTEGRITY as defined by s_c_f.

            One final point, then I really have to go. You choose Oda's little misadventure as your final example of a faux scandal. And, to a certain extent, that marks a Conservative success story; Oda >just<; managed to avoid a formal finding of contempt of parliament (due to the fact that the gov't fell on another, separate, contempt of parliament). So congrats on that. But the real scandal of the KAIROS affair was the fact that the Harper government smeared an entirely innocent NGO of being ANTI-SEMITES without one scrap of evidence, one questionable comment, one suspect decision or influence. Nothing. Nada. Zero.

            And that is just peachy keen with you, isn't it?

          • s_c_f

            but you flat out refuse to assign any blame to the same media for their part in this gross distortion of the sacred truth

            Now there's another flat-out lie.
            http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/18/party-and-powe…
            http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/18/party-and-powe…
            http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/18/party-and-powe…

            According to you, I "flat out refuse" to do something that I've already done three times in three different places. You have the same standards for the truth as the Liberal party and the Globe. Good for you.

            The rest of your comment is equally false, so there's no point in responding to it.

          • lgarvin

            The rest of your comment is equally false, so there's no point in responding to it.

            Well played, s_c_f! I think I recognize the Gallant gambit there; beating a hasty retreat in a cloud of righteous moral indignation.

            I do apologize that I haven't read your every word today but, in the context of this thread, I was reacting to your contention that "That [media's initial misquote] doesn't excuse the Liberals however" And you're right, it doesn't excuse the mistake, but it does mitigate the mistake (as is always the case when errors are made "in good faith."

            As I said, I did not read what you had written elsewhere, so I went ahead and checked your 1st link wherein you claim that "the Liberal media" was just acting in consort with the LPC. So yes, you are blaming "the media" for being part of the vast Liberal conspiracy against that poor Mr. Harper who never met a puppie he didn't scratch behind the ear. Thanks for the clarification.

          • Mike T.

            Stopping talking now would look as good on you as you are ever going to get.

  • s_c_f

    He's never said he won't blow up the moon. Nor has he said he won't start a nuclear war. So, according to your logic, we just might have both.

    But I'm pretty sure he's said, many times, that he has no intention of altering the Canada Health Act.

    Ooh, look here: http://www.profitisnotthecure.ca/learn/canada_hea…
    "During the federal election, Stephen Harper promised to enforce the Canada Health Act and protect public health care."

    You do know what google is, don't you? Are you in the gutter with Wherry and the rest of the Liberal party too?

    • FVerhoeven

      I'm sure you've read Mike T.'s reply to your post.

      The G&M and CBC webpages are filled with comments similar to Mike T's.

      Such characters are social bots. They have their computers programmed to spout out the anti-Harper one-liners on the hour. Sometimes when the Liberals are in trouble, they set their one-liners to appear on the minute.

      Empty heads, spouting empty slogans.

      • s_c_f

        Actually, no, I've not read a reply from Mike T, he does not appear to have replied to me anywhere. No matter, he's one of those people whom you know what they'll say before they say it.

    • LdKitchenersOwn

      Has anyone accused the Tories of wanting to blow up the moon or start a nuclear war? I'm not asking the Tories to deny wanting to do anything anyone could possibly accuse them of wanting to do, I just want them to deny wanting to do things they're ACTUALLY ACCUSED OF WANTING TO DO. Or don't deny it, if you maybe want to do it. Just don't try to make it LOOK LIKE you're denying it without actually technically denying it.

      Your provided "quote" is exactly the sort of weak sauce I'm talking about. Promising to enforce the Canada Health Act is hardly some great promise vis a vis the Canada Health Act. Promising to enforce the Canada Health Act is simply promising to enforce the law of the land. OF COURSE the Prime Minister is going to enforce the laws of Canada. I mean, I should hope so! That tells me NOTHING however about whether the Prime Minister simply intends to enforce the Canada Health Act right up until the day his government votes to scrap it.

      Promising to abide by a law that is already on the books is not the same as promising not to attempt to repeal said law if given an opportunity. Surely, if in a room of reporters someone asked the Prime Minister "Do you intend to attempt to repeal the Canada Health Act" and the Prime Minister answered, "As Prime Minister, I intend to enforce the Canada Health Act" at least one reporter in the room would realize that the Prime Minister DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

      (Also, I love that your quickly Googled source for Harper claiming that he intends to enforce the Canada Health Act is 1) not actually a quote of the PM saying he intends to enforce the Canada Health Act, let alone that he won't attempt to repeal it and 2) is from a site which is accusing Harper of breaking his promise to enforce the Canada Health Act, LOL)

      • s_c_f

        You can accuse them of anything you like, but if they've never claimed it's something they wish to do, then it's equivalent to any other accusation you can think of, such as blowing up the moon, that's the whole point.

        This last comment of yours makes no sense. Now you're saying that the Liberals are wrong, he's never claimed that he wants to scrap the Health act. Well, that's exactly what I've been saying. And frankly, he's been asked many times if he intends to repeal the act, but you're too damn obtuse to admit it.

        • LdKitchenersOwn

          he's been asked many times if he intends to repeal the act, but you're too damn obtuse to admit it

          I freely admit that he's been asked the question many times, my interest is in his ANSWERS. I could well be missing the pertinent quote on the interwebs. Surely if he's been asked it several times he's answered it definitely at least once! Simply point me to one quote, anywhere, where Harper has said that a Tory government won't repeal the Canada Health Act, and you win!

          Also, again, I don't expect the Tories to deny any accusation flung their way. I only expect them to deny the ones they think Canadians might believe, and that they'd rather Canadians not believe. I for one believe that the Prime Minister WOULD like to scrap the Canada Health Act, and I don't think it's crazy of me to ask for evidence that he won't. Like, for instance, a quote of him saying that he won't.

    • ZestyMordant

      "He's never said he won't blow up the moon."

      Down with Harper's anti-moonism! We're earthlings, let's blow up earth things!

      Seriously though, does this 'blowing up the moon' business of Harper's have anything to do with the launch of SunTV?

  • OriginalEmily1

    Actually, they're in Russia…now don't interrupt when you don't know the story.

    • s_c_f

      Interrupt a spam artist like you? Impossible.

      • OriginalEmily1

        I'm sorry, but I'm impervious to Con intimidation and insult tactics.

  • FVerhoeven

    I agree. Let's keep talking healthcare for the next two weeks. Most Canadians think the only solution is more money.

    Soon the Canadians will ask themselves where all this money is coming from.

    And it ain't coming from Quebec!!

  • Thomas Folkestone

    Hahaha-Harper! Don't like it when someone misquotes you? Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black!!

    Favorite quote from the under-reported French Leaders Debate, by Gilles Duceppe, when asked what he thought of the debate: "I can't say Stephen Harper lied to my face, because he never looked at me."

    Too bad he's a separatist, we could use an honest man with integrity as PM. Looks like Jack's our best choice!

    • Aview

      So these little quips makes "one" more honest…that appears to be a low standard….

    • James

      better open your wallet if you want Layton Or are you someone who has nothing and wants to share it with me

  • Loraine Lamontagne

    I would have never thought that Stephen Harper presided over the NCC just for the money. But apparently, it is so.

  • Jan

    Interesting that today the Fraser Institute has come out with the suggestion to suspend the enforcement of the Canada Health Act for 5 years. I wonder if Mr. Harper would care to comment on that idea.

  • JLPG

    "What we clearly need is experimentation with market reforms and private delivery options [in health care]."

    Stephen Harper, then President of the NCC, 2001.

    “Canada appears content to become a second-tier socialistic country, boasting ever more loudly about its economy and social services to mask its second-rate status.”

    Stephen Harper quotes (Canadian Politician, b.1959)

    “Canada appears content to become a second-tier socialistic country, boasting ever more loudly about its economy and social services to mask its second-rate status.”
    Stephen Harper quotes (Canadian Politician, b.1959)

    May the One Above save Canada from a Tea Party Neanderthal Majority that'll bring us one step closer to a U.S. of A bankruptcy. DEREGULATION of Markets, firing of Health Inspectors, cutting down social services—but spending $35 Billion on American Contractors being investigated by Washington, and building Mega-PRISONS for tweens.

  • NorthernPoV

    so many damning quotes,
    so hard to choose….

    Rather than backfiring on Liberals the collateral damage is all on Harper, exposing his many dark thoughts about what most voters hold dear.

From Macleans