Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

'Not so fast, Jack'

by Aaron Wherry on Saturday, April 23, 2011 11:02am - 67 Comments

The Liberals take a few shots at Mr. Layton’s side.

Tags: attack ad, election, Election 2011, Jack Layton, liberals, NDP

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http://www.TennisVagabond.com Big Dave S

Not sure this is a smart issue to lead with. Ignatieff has been telling us for two years how dictatorially controlling and undemocratic Harper is, and here they're saying that the NDP gives too much freedom to MPs to represent their constituency. I think most people like that, and the urban ridings that are pro-gun control will know which way their NDP MP voted (if they care about the issue at all). I think people feel more strongly these days for local representation vs party control.

Sally

If you are going to run as a candidate under a party banner you shouldn't get to pick and choose which part of their platform you will support. What would be the point of any party presenting a platform and saying here's what we stand for but if your member of parliament doesn't agree with some aspect of the platform it's ok cause we'll let them vote to defeat any proposed legislation ? If they don't agree with a portion of the platform and feel they cannot support it then maybe they should run as an independent. If you expect a party to provide financial support to get you elected then you should be prepared to dance with the one who brought you.

http://www.TennisVagabond.com Big Dave S

I'm not arguing your point- I could, but that's not my point.
What I'm saying is IGNATIEFF has been arguing that for two years, claiming Harper had marginalized MPs and shut out dissenting opinions. So for him to criticize the NDP for allowing freedom on certain issues is disingenuous. Further, I just don't think your view is that popular after the long, tightly controlled teams of Chretien and Harper.
If you think its brilliant advertising, I'm sure we'll see an effect in the polls, right?

Sally

If the NDP is not willing to whip the party vote on contenous issues to support the party's platform they leave themselves wide open to ( as in the case of the long gun registry ) the Conservatives using this as a wedge issue to have the legislation passed. Had this legislation passed it would have created a huge probelem for the NDP in this election. There may well be future private members bill that require the MPs to vote the party line even if goes against their personal beliefs and I think a voter is entitled to know whether the person I am voting for is prepared to support their party's position . You may well argue that MPs in the governing party are being marginalized by successively more powerful PMOs but that applies only to the governing party members. There are few whipped votes in the house but when necessary all party leaders should be able to count on the full support of their caucus to either defeat or pass legislation.

modster99

I agree with you, but I think this shows how desperate the liberals have become.

I love how it says 'BE PRINCIPLED and support the gun registry'. That is an opinion statement, and you are right, each MP should be voting for the PRINCIPLES of their constituents.

I think the liberals are starting to show their true colors, and we might be witnessing the end of the Natural Governing Party of Canada. In ten years, the NDP will eat them. . .

FVerhoeven

Oh, yeah. With this kind of commercial, the Liberals sound even more confusing.

Higher taxes? What about the Liberal plan……………

Experienced people? How much experience does Ignatieff have? A few years……………………….and much of that in a theoretical sense.

TwoYen

Yes, The Liberals have put their foot in their mouth several times during this campaign. Thank god they still have Wherry to cheerlead for them.
Atchison

"How much experience does Ignatieff have? A few years……………………….and much of that in a theoretical sense."

I got a laugh out of how the ad begins by criticizing the NDP for being inexperienced but ends stating that Jack should know better because of his 26 years of experience in politics.

Sally

Should have done this immediately after the debate. Too bad Jack decided the go after the Liberals instead of Harper. Now he's handing Harper a majority. I doubt Jack will stick around for 4 years sitting as a neutered opposition leader while Harper says thank you and crams taxes cuts, crime bills and prisons up Layton's self righteous ass.

http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

Chill out. In a few days you'll begin to see the NDP is siphoning support from the Conservatives too.

Sally

It won't be enough. He will split the vote in areas where the Liberals had the best shot at taking away seats from the Conservatives or holding on in close ridings. Media hype is driving down the Liberal support that Layton needs to stop a Conservative majority. Layton is going to wind up the official opposition to a majority conservative government with the assistance of the media putting stars in voter's eyes Layton has lost sight of the goal to get rid of Harper and give the 60% + of Canadians a voice. I don't care which combination of seats belong to Layton or Ignatieff May 3 as long as it's more then the Conservatives. If the voters in Ontario start splitting between the NDP and Liberals the Conservatives are going to make huge gains. Layton better start showing how he can work with other parties for the 60% of Canadians who don't want Harper .

modster99

That would be Ignatieff's fault more than Layton. Ignatieff has done a poor job this election, and most people don't want him hear the PM seat. . . those that oppose Harper support Layton more for the job.

Gayle

Actually Ignatieff has done a very good job. I think he is being pulled down by voter fatigue. Layton's "same old same old" is resonating.
modster99

You are welcome to think that, and I guess time will tell. The fact is that Layton polls much higher as a leader than Ignatieff. The NDP has been successful in pulling the left leaning part of the liberal base out. This can be directly attributed to the perception that Ignatieff has been seen as a poor leader.

Basically, Layton is showing that he is much better at playing politics than Ignatieff.
Gayle

I am sure he is, however by all reports on the hustings Ignatieff is doing well and drawing large crowds. He is doing fine. He is just haunted by the liberal past.

I say this as someone who does not even like Ignatieff.
modster99

I guess we will agree to disagree.
I would submit that the Liberals' past was already in the support numbers at the start of the election. Not much of the past sins of the LPC has been brought up. Rather, it is Ignatieff's image as a leader, his performance during the debates, the fact that he is very inexperienced, and many other factors (relating to Ignatieff) that have allowed Layton to take the support.

Again, Ignatieff didn't see this coming, and Layton did. Game, set and match.
Gayle

Except that ALL the reports disagree with you.

Otherwise, sure…
modster99

you have a few links for all these reports? And something current, please.

Curt

Sally,
Your logic doesn't make sense. The NDP are running against the Liberals too. Their # 1 goal is to get as many seats as possible.

Gayle

Sally's mistake is that she thinks Layton cares if Harper gets a majority.
modster99

The reason that this shows the desperation of the LPC is that they are going after the NDP. Read the whole post – it has nothing to do with 'attack ads' in general. It has to do with the NDP taking a chunk out of the liberals.
Gayle

Except the CPC are running an attack ad on the NDP too.

If you want your point to be convincing, it helps if you do not ignore inconvenient facts.
modster99

Gayle – I am not ignoring anything. Whether or not the CPC is running attack ads against the NDP is irrelevant to my point.

This Liberal ad is weak. The NDP are taking support away from the Liberals. The Liberals had campaigned originally by going after the centrist votes, while trying to keep the left leaning ones. They have not been able to do either, and they are sensing a very bad time at the polls. This ad show their desperation, that is all.

What the CPC is doing in relation to the NDP taking support from the Liberals has nothing to do with my comment.
Gayle

OK. And I am saying that IF this ad means the LPC are desperate, the CPC ad means the CPC are desperate.

And since Harper is now running off to BC to try to save his MP's there, it seems pretty obvious this is true.
Atchison

"IF this ad means the LPC are desperate, the CPC ad means the CPC are desperate."

Not at all. The CPC ad is just reminding all those frightened and confused Liberal voters who may not be comfortable with the NDP that they're safe with Stevie.
Gayle

Cute spin.

So what does the fact Harper is making an unexpected campaign stop in BC to help stop the bleeding to the NDP mean?
Atchison

It means that you provide support for your argument by citing yourself.

The Tories have been polled consistently above 45% in BC for the entirety of the campaign. They are currently at 47.8%. The Grits are bleeding from both ends (having recently fallen 11%) in that province not the Tories.

As I have already said, Stevie is just reminding all those frightened and confused Liberal voters that there's a supportive Tory shoulder to sob on.
http://www.nanosresearch.com/election2011/2011042…
Gayle

Heh. Look what you did! You ignored the glaring hole in your "logic" by lying about an inconsequential point! If you were Harper, and I was a mindless conservative drone, it might have even worked.

Sadly for you, the fact is the CPC have produced an ad attacking the NDP one that has absolutely NOTHING to do with any attempt to woo liberal voters to the NDP), and according to Robert Fife (I am not him, by the way), Harper is scared enough of the NDP to run off to BC.
modster99

I agree. Layton's only goal is to get as many seats as possible. If he can get more seats than the LPC, that would be the biggest win of his career.

It seems pretty possible at the moment.
Gayle

Except he is trying to sell himself as someone who can stop Harper. Which is something he knows is not true.

Hence Sally's frustration.
burlivespipe

That footage of celebrating and party-down happy people, while Harper prepares to ransack the Canadian social safety net, will come back to haunt Jack if it comes true…
Sally

Actually it's that Layton doesn;t care as long as he gets to move to Stornaway. Someone should tell Layton there isn't going to be any media coverage for the next four years. Harper secure with a majority will be free to pump billions of taxpayer money into Conservative ridings in preparation for the next election.
Sally

Layton's started out this campaign aiming at the Conservatives for their contempt of parliament and lack of transparency. It has morphed into a fight for the left leaning voters as opposed to unseating Harper. If this continues the biggest loser will be the 60% of Canadians who are in agreement with the parties that hold this view. Layton is splitting the vote in ridings where he is very unlikely to win and allowing the Conservatives to take those ridings. Sitting in opposition in a majority Conservative parliament is selfdefeating. He will be powerless to pass any legislation or stop the Conservatives from pushing through legislation 60 % of Canadians don't want. The seats need to be taken from the Conservatives not the Liberals in order for there to be any meaningful opposition.
modster99

so only with a minority gov't can there be an effective opposition. Wow – lots of MP's wasted a lot of time over the years. . .

TwoYen

It is in the NDP's interests to weaken the Liberals as much as possibe. If Jack becomes Leader of the Opposition, the NDP will increase in stature and within a few years, the (new) Democratic Party will drop the "new" and absorb the Liberals.

modster99

Yup – and Layton is doing a great job of it. Proving that Ignatieff has not political prowess whatsoever.

http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

It won't be enough.

Harper is making a huge blunder right now. He's changing his so far successful campaign in order to open up a second front against a guy who is more likeable than he is. By doing so, he's negating one of the biggest thorns in the NDP's side; the long held perception that the NDP can never form a government. Notice how nobody is saying that now. So relax. The polls will show this no later than Tuesday or Wednesday.
stewacide

The left needs a wake up call that a Harper majority and NDP official opposition should provide: unless and until they unite they're condemned to endless vote splitting and lost elections. If the goal is simply to contain the Conservatives to a minority that's all they'll ever do.

modster99

nope – they are too diametrically opposed. What we are seeing is the death of the LPC. We will be left with one party on the right, and one party on the left. The way that Layton has played his cards, it looks like he will be that party.

Either way, it all looks good for Harper right now.
Gayle

It is his goal to replace the LPC. He does not care about the conservatives this time around.

Style

It is Ignatieff's goal to block the NDP. He does not care about the conservatives this time around. If he did, he'd, at a minimum, pull Liberal candidates from ridings where the NDP finished second to a sitting Conservative and from ridings held by the NDP.

Ian

It’s unreasonable to blame the NDP for “handing Harper a majority”.

First of all, you could just as well blame the Liberals, and suggest that the Liberals should be supporting the NDP. Blaming the NDP is just Liberal bias.

But really the point should be that our first-past-the-post electoral system is a ridiculous way to run a country, and we should be working on adopting a form of mixed proportional representation as they have in Germany.

The NDP supports this kind of electoral reform. I’m not aware of much Liberal interest in the issue.

As long as the Liberals are not pushing hard for electoral reform, they should quit their carping. If Harper wins a majority despite the fact that more than 60% of Canadians are centre-left, then that’s a scandal of our SYSTEM not of any particular party.
Ian

Further to my point regarding electoral reform, imagine if Quebec’s place in Canada had been decided by a first-past-the-post riding-based election.

Quebec would now be a separate country, despite the fact that a (slim) majority of Quebecers voted NO. And most Canadians would find that scandalous.

We expect an important decision such as separation to be based on the real share of the vote, but we allow all sorts of other important decisions about our collective welfare (health, environment, economic development, etc) to be based on what *usually* amounts to minority rule (that is, a single party that governs with less than 50% popular support).

David_M.

Like it better than the tone of the CPC ad. Shouldn't the Libs be running ads in QC en francais? I would think QC would be the place to start but I'm no strategist.

TwoYen

The Liberals no longer have enough money to run French languagge ads in Quebec. Their best hope is to save as many anglophone seats in Quebec as possible.

OriginalEmily1

I don't think I've ever seen a specifically NDP ad before….but it says everything people have complained about with the NDP for years.

Atchison

NDP TV Ad: "Together, we can do this" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl9NGWl9UeE

Jack Layton and Canada's NDP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv341bqNAOo

NDP TV Ad: "Not so great moments: Flip-Flop" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBCUTAvrbag

You have a choice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhyGqElgjk&fe…

OriginalEmily1

I've seen NDP ads for years….just not anti-NDP ads that I can recall.

But then the NDP have never been a threat before.

canadianveggie

What happened to 'rise up'? Now the Liberals are playing in the mud with the Conservatives.

modster99

Sorry to break it to you, but the liberals invented the mud playing.
Atchison

Maybe 'rise up' is just he way of communing with all those corpses that voted for Ignatieff and Joe Volpe in their 2006 bid for party leadership.
http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/2006…

http://twitter.com/pekoe_j @pekoe_j

Wow…that was obnoxiously elitist….

Seems like the libs aren't too happy with the polls.

modster99

Yup – and I predict a slide like this for the next few days. Things are getting interesting.
TwoYen

Speaking of obnoxiously elitist, Ignatieff was quoted today complaining that voters don't agree with him. Whaaat? Hasn't he learned yet to at least pretend he islistening to voters, instead of telling them what to think. The professor is showing his stripes and it is why the NDP is doing so well.
Gayle

Considering the CPC put out an attack ad on the NDP, I don't think the LPC are alone in that.

daphne

So I am unprincipled because I do not support the long gun registry? Thanks for letting me know that, Liberal Party.

Maybe that attitude is one of the reasons you can't swing any votes your way.

Gayle

Ummm, what?

Harper said the LPC were supporting terrorists just because they dared to question him. Where were you when they said that?

modster99

First of all, this clearly shows the desperation of the LPC. They see the direction things are going, and are rightly scared. Basically, this proves that they did not have their finger on the pulse of the nation when they brought down the gov't. We can now count Ignatieff's time left in Canada in days, not months.
As the center leaning Liberal supporters see that the NDP is going to be eating their lunch, they may very well swing to the CPC. The high tax, spend foolish platform of the NDP is not supported by the majority of liberal supporters. They would not support a 'coalition' with a strong NDP/Bloc contingent. Most of them would want the power to be held by the LPC. This is apparently not going to be the case. Things are looking worse and worse for the LPC, and it is mostly the fault of Ignatieff.

I do find it funny that the LPC is calling out the NDP for increased spending, with no way to fund it. That is laughingly like the pot calling the kettle black. And they are slamming the NDP for not allowing their members to vote for their constituents wishes. And to top it off, they show how many years Layton has for experience (which seriously contrasts against Ignatieff's time in public service), and then have the gall to say that the NDP has new people. Isn't the idea of 'fresh blood' and MP's who are not 'lifetime' consistently seen as a good thing?

If this ad gets anything short of ridicule (from all sides of the political fence) I would be very surprised.

TwoYen

Well, the good news is that much of the "tired blood" in the Liberal back bench will be retired by the voters this time around.
Gayle

"this clearly shows the desperation of the LPC"

And Harper's attack ad on the NDP? What did that show?

Blues Clair

Ain't that the truth Gayle.

Gayle

Robert Fife reports Harper is making a "mad dash" out to BC to try to prop up CPC seats in the face of an NDP surge.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

It's not surprising, since the NDP and Conservatives are direct competitors in a number of ridings out there. Otherwise, I suspect a rising NDP will sap support from Liberals in many ridings, especially in Ontario, and from the Bloc in Quebec. Both those latter scenarios will probably help the Conservatives considerably.

Gayle

Maybe. Maybe not.

danR

Don't respond Jack. Please! You're better than that. No attack-ads.

Let Tea Party Steve and the Harvard Democrat duke it out American style.

I'm voting for a Canadian, so please stay that way.