Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Plus/minus

by Aaron Wherry on Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:39am - 121 Comments

Changes in popular vote totals for the parties from 2008 to 2011.

NDP +1,933,186
Conservatives +623,332
Greens -361,392
Bloc Quebecois -490,203
Liberals -850,010

Tags: Bloc Quebcois, conservatives, election, Election 2011, greens, liberals, NDP, vote, votes

More by Aaron Wherry

OriginalEmily1

'According to CBC it the Conservatives won 39.59% of the popular vote, the NDP won 30.66%, the Libs 18.88%, the Bloq 6.12%, the Greens 3.87%, and independents .43%. The majority of Canadians voted for a party with a progressive platform, but the idiosyncrasies of our electoral system means that popular vote does not always correspond with number of seats won.'

Also 77 ridings in Ont had a split NDP/Lib vote, so the Con won.

WDM

If only the Maclean's blogs existed in the 90s we could have listened to you denouncing the Chretien sweeps of Ontario.

McC_

seriously, the CPC increased their share of the vote in Ontario by some 5points, that's HUGE growth (over 12%), and that won them seats, (and won them their majority with only a need to hold their vote everywhere else, but QC).

FVerhoeven

Emily, our system is first past the post, a system where the total votes recieved does not matter. Each and every riding is a mini election on its own. THAT is how our system works. Just accept it.

OriginalEmily1

I know how our system works….I've been elected.

You are simply chattering on about the balloons.

Atchison

You should act on Paul Wells advice.

OriginalEmily1

You should act on mine….go away.
FVerhoeven

People posting here who understand how it really works should not go away. They in fact should stay!!

Time to open your eyes, Emily

SanDiegoDave

Well blow me over with a feather….you finally understand a Westminster parliamentary system.

OriginalEmily1

I'm not tut tutting….I'm pointing out there was a major move to the left.

When you put the balloons down, you'll see it.

Atchison

Tut tut tut. .The Tories picked up 24 seats, the nation has moved to the right. The leftist vote simply shifted from the Bloc to the NDP.

OriginalEmily1

No….the country moved way to the left from the center.

FVerhoeven

Not true. The Quebec voters simply shifted for opportunistic reasons. They thought they could be the dominant force within a NDP party if a coalition government would be formed. They knew Jack would be up for it, and since the BQ could not be part of a coalition goverment (but only be part of a formal coalition agreement) theydecided to hedge their bets on Jack.

That is the story. Not a major shift to the left. You are not reading these election results right. Your assessment is grossly outdated.

OriginalEmily1

LOL your assessment is just gross.

AJR79

Let's test this major move left with the numbers provided.

Vote change for CPC +623,332

Vote change for NDP/Bloc/Green/Lib +231,581

Do you see why this does not equal a major leftward shift? I'm sure with a little more effort towards intellectual honesty, you can figure it out.

OriginalEmily1

Go play with the balloons some more until you figure it out.

AJR79

Well I'd rather you explain it to me Emily. It is your theory after all.

The Conservatives gained 391,751 more new votes this election, then the combined "left" parties you listed.

How does this equal any leftward shift, nevermind a major one? It's a simple question.

Does it have something to do with balloons?… cause these numbers should really pop yours.

OriginalEmily1

I've already posted it 5 or 6 times, and you aren't interested anyway. Join your buddies in the looney bin.

Ciao.
jonatwitan

Emily, I think, is observing that the Libs used to get 30% and the NDP used to get 18%. Now those numbers have flipped. Given that the NDP is further left, she thinks the country has taken a step to the left. That is her reasoning. And yes, it is at best overstated, and at worst, as you said, intellectually dishonest.

FVerhoeven

Excellent post! Great insight.

AJR79

Just simple math actually… but thanks anyway.

OriginalEmily1

True, they are quite separate parties….not a reunification like the PCs and Reform were.
1CJ

I've never been more proud of Quebecers and more disappointed with the rest of Canada. Quebecers reached out to Canada by abandoning the Bloc and embracing a party with a progressive, inclusive platform. It was the rest of Canada that slapped this hand away by electing Canada's most divisive leader since Borden. This is going to have consequences. Quebec may well be on its way to independence and I don't blame it one bit.

Paul Wells

Sixty-four per cent of the NDP voters in the country last night live outside Quebec.

Plain Old Anon

Ok, then I'm missing something.

The NDP vote was efficient *inside* QC, but inefficient *outside* QC? There goes a few assumptions made before the vote.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

So-called efficiencies, or lack thereof, become irrelevant once parties break certain thresholds. For the NDP, that threshold was getting over 40% of the vote in Quebec.

For the record, my guess is that Harper can totally live with an opposition caucus from Quebec filled with Vegas cocktail waitresses and McGill tutorial assistants versus well-organized separatist forces. But maybe that's just me. I think it was very good night for Harper.

http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

My guess is that when Layton shows up on a stage with any of those placeholder candidates, he'll at least know what their names are.
http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

I think he'll have more to worry about than remembering people's names.
madeyoulook

As long as they keep their shiny plastic vests with their name tags on straight, and keep holding the rope in proper order when they go out for a walk to the park. Layton will get good with their names by nap time next Thursday, for sure.
http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

So nobody remembers Stephen Harper in Quebec City, then. Fine, painful memory all around, it's your right.
madeyoulook

Aw, c'mon, HO, I am just offering the NDP the same seriousness they offered their own electoral chances when they filled out their slate.

And I do remember Harper in Quebec City — I presume you are referring to "Sir, can you name any two of these fine superb candidates to which you referred moments ago?" or some such.

But you weren't talking about Harper in Quebec City. You were talking about Layton knowing the names of his new MPs. I must apologize for staying on topic, I suppose.
http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

I admit to being totally touchy about the noobs criticisms, given the level of disposability of most of the CPC MPs. But I'm big enough to admit that NDP headquarters is probably spending the day hiring language tutors and buying copies of "So You're a Member of Parliament!" in bulk.
madeyoulook

An MP must "run" two offices, one a stand-alone service delivery and communications unit far from head office, and one a small unit steps away from head office. The MP must be master of these offices while being a butt-kissing toady to the real bosses down the hall. Kind of like a middle manager.

It will be, um, interesting, to see how these middle managers turn out. I suspect Carleton and OttawaU are about to get a few inter-university transfer requests for part-time studies.
BCer in Mtl

Well if Pierre Poilievre can become a parliamentary secretary. . .

modster99

Okay, so you are bitter that your party didn't win.

As far as slapping the hand away, yes we did. Thankfully, that hand won't be in our pockets, stealing our money to give it to others. Robin Hood is for the books, not reality. We slapped away a platform that would have bankrupted us.

Quebec is not on their way to separation, they are just taking a long time to decide to vote CPC. They will get there soon. They will soon realize that a CPC party is the best for them as well. Power to the provinces. :)

1CJ

Take a look at your rising payroll taxes. Harper lowers taxes for people he likes (e.g., wealthier people) and raises them for people he doesn't like. For example, the average post-doctoral fellow had his/her income taxes raised by about $5000 per year under Harper.

modster99

Silly silly silly

I expect everyone's taxes to go down.

Out of curiosity, how did Jack expect to pay for all of his spending? I can assure you that you would end up paying for it.

1CJ

You didn't refute my points because you can't.

Harper started to tax all of the scholarship income of Canadian students as well as all post-doc income. Payroll taxes have gone up. Harper's refusal to provide funding to public transit operations has produced huge fare increases for everyone. Canada has some of the worst gridlock in the world, which is hurting businesses and productivity. Our vital infrastructure is crumbling because Harper often funneled infrastructure money into useless projects like gazebos.

By the way, we can save $40 billion by cancelling the F-35s and mega prisons… We could have saved $1 billion on G20 security and $40 million on "Canada's Economic Action Plan" signs.
modster99

We could sit and argue little points for quite some time.
first, Harper had a minority gov't, and had to have at least one party support each bill that passed.
Second, there was a recession, which we are still working through.
Last I checked, income was taxable – all income. It seems to me that you are saying that Harper closed a loophole.
As far as funding, eventually, that should end up as the provinces responsibility. Funded entirely by them, but they would have more money to do so. That is the direction we are headed in.
If our 'vital infrastructure' is crumbling, that takes more than 5 years to happen. Last I checked, Chretian slashed transfers to the provinces by quite a bit.
I find it funny that people talk about the money spent on prisons, but not about the 40,000+ non Canadians that are running around Canada, with deportation orders, that we can't find. Would be nice to have somewhere to store those folks, until we can determine if they are fit to be in Canada . . . .hmmmm. Seems if we just tell them to come back to find out if they have been approved as refugees, or whatever, they 'disappear'.
We could also save a ton of money by not spending on the military at all. Some here have espoused that idea. I seem to remember a debate about helicopters a few years ago. How much did that cost us? How many of our old 'copters' went down? How many people's lives were put at risk?
How could we have saved $1 billion on G20 security?
I will give you the signs, but to be blunt, the gov't has been putting up similar signs for many, many years. Hey, the opposition wanted to stimulate the economy – the sign makers are stimulated. :)
1CJ

I agree that a buck is a buck and there shouldn't be loopholes. However, no one has created more tax loopholes than Harper. Moreover, Harper's social engineering using targeted tax breaks for each pet idea he fancies are all non-refundable – meaning that if you're poor or in the lower middle class, you get nothing.
AT1

1CJ, I have no idea what you're blathering about. Postdoctoral fellowships have be taxed for many years. I had two from FRSQ and the old MRC, in the mid-1990s, and they were certainly taxable.

Back then, as I recall, it was a Liberal government. It certainly wasn't started by Harper.
1CJ

They weren't taxable two years ago.

alfanerd

Quebecers are a bunch of whiny groupthinking lemmings. Let's all vote Bloc. Let's all vote NDP. The one region with independent thinkers is the Beauce.

Why the hell would RoC vote for a bunch of inexperienced socialist faux-candidates? The RoC actually needs to produce wealth, in order to support itself and, incidentally, to support Quebec's socialist society.

1CJ

Then what are Albertans? If they hadn’t blindly voted Conservative/Socred over many decades, the province might have a huge next egg of several hundred billion like Norway, which has one of the most competitive and prosperous economies on Earth. How much does the Alberta Heritage Fund have? I thought so…

craigola

Oh, you see, thanks to the "That's Different" principle, it's different when Albertans do it.

alfanerd

you still bitter about last night eh? on the bright side, well, hmmmm, ….. no sorry i guess there is no bright side for you.

alfanerd

Alberta votes conservatives because the Liberals have explicitly stated they are not interested in Alberta. "Screw the west, we'll take the rest", and because of the National Energy Program, and because Liberal governments have continually fleeced Alberta to fund their pet projects in Ontario and Quebec. So yeah, if the Liberals hadnt stolen from Alberta all these years, maybe Alberta would be rich like Norway.

Nevertheless, Alberta has no deficit, no debt, and no sales tax. So, they're doing alright.

1CJ

Stolen from Alberta? You have a very selective memory. In the 80s and 90s, the federal gov't invested billions to develop the technology to extract oil from the tar sands when the oil companies wouldn't be caught dead investing in it. Also, Peter Lougheed supported the National Energy Program when it was created because it was designed to funnel money to Alberta when oil prices were low, and from the oil patch when the price was high. Mulroney got rid of the program just when Alberta was about to receive its benefits during the 80s oil bust.
Iccyh

As an Albertan, this makes me want to go beat my head against the wall.

The NEP ended in '86. The provincial Tories have had 25 years to save, if they'd wanted to. Just to remind you, it was the provincial PCs that ran up the deficit, prompting Klein's cuts. And, I think there's a solid case to be made that it was Klein's cuts that in turn prompted the overspending on infrastructure that occurred during the boom years (not to mention that in order to try and attract back nurses to the province, the government handed out one of the richest contracts in the country to the nurses union). If things had been managed differently, I've no doubt that Alberta could be in way better shape financially without the huge funding rollercoaster that the government has been on.

Alberta may have no deficit, no debt, and no sales tax, but we're also coming off a gigantic boom with next to no savings, rising health care costs (just like everyone else) and one of the highest spending provincial governments, per capita, in the country. We're damn lucky we have oil and gas, or we'd be in huge trouble.
rick

yep, and it's too bad the rest of Canada doesn't get much of Alberta's oil/gas, as far as savings ?
Yes, you are darn lucky the rest of Canada, and the States, are paying these ridiculous gas prices at the pumps, just for Alberta.
– and all this becuase of the-elite-rich-coporate OIL, and the coservatives.

BCer in Mtl

No wonder they have a nestegg . . . . Well I keep hearing about how great it is that Alberta has no sales tax and every so often the government has a $500 giveaway. That, and failure to collect royalties would have nothing to do with the sorry state of the Heritage Fund.

Thing is, the economic brilliance of the successive Alberta governments seems to be the underpinning of our current government.

rick

Quebecers just proved, and for quite a while to come, that jobs, food, gas, tuition, taxes, …, "survival", .., are on the proverbial plate, and NOT independence. Beside, even Quebecers know now that, independence would mean half of Quebec would all go back to the "real" 1st Nations (yep, just as it was in 1867), and it would be up to them to decide if they want their own country/nation, or join quebec.

modster99

???

AJR79

I think he's refering to Emily.

modster99

Well that explains it. Emily is in the mix – up is down, right is left, black is white.
Yanni

I still don't understand the reference.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

I think someone, maybe Emily, was using Bloc votes to justify the strength of the left/Liberals as a result of this election. I dunno. That's my guess.

FVerhoeven

By jumping on Jack's NDP wagon, the Quebec voters had thought that they could have a dominating say if a coalition goverment would be formed (in case a CPC minority would have been the outcome).

Quebeckers were thinking that if the BQ could not join a formal coalition because both the BQ and the ROC would never accept such formal coaltion, then it would be better to join the NDP en masse.

Quebeckers thought that if a coalition would be formed this time around, they could then hold an even bigger balance of power by means of the NDP party. That aspect has not been talked about at all. But think about it.

Jack's up surge is an interesting one indeed. He may have gotten much more than he had ever bargained for, but not in a positive sense when considered over the long run.

modster99

That is interesting to think about.

No how about his – a socialist party that is mostly indebted to Quebec for being there. How will they act in Parliament?
briguyhfx

So, the Quebecois are the origin of the Borg mind. Interesting.
rick

Dead on !.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Eyes-Open

Canada's democracy is strong.

The voters decided to choose a Conservative Majority.
with a NDP opposition as an advisor.
Congratulations to the Conservatives and NDP.

To the Liberals and Bloc, a fight well done.

We must remember the parties do not own the voters, it is the other way around.

There is no shame in fighting a good fight and losing. These people deserve respect, winning or losing.

But we have to respect the will of the majority of those who cared to vote.

Sore Losers are exactly that … Losers.
OriginalEmily1

What consolation prize?

People went from the center to the extreme left in order to haul the ship of state back into place. They feel we've gone too far right.

That's not good for Canada's future….now we'll no doubt get learned columns debating Smith v Marx….concepts from centuries ago.

In the meantime, like it or not, China is eating our lunch.
Jan

Where did Harper get the growth from then?

modster99

I would imagine that most came from the LPC. Some from first time voters? What remains, now, however, is the 'center' voters who stuck with the LPC, or even went with the bandwagon and voted NDP. Lost of room for the CPC to grow.

I can't see the NDP growing, and the LPC is in dire straights. What I envision is a long string f CPC majorities, followed by the growth of the Green party, to continually split the lefts vote.

The future is bright for Harper.

chet

And with that,

I bid my fellow commenters farewell.

A rousing sprited debate is good for democracy, no?

And to you media types out there: try to learn from this election. Read a few of Norm Spector's tweets of late and try to listen. Really listen. It's for your own good.

Good by.

modster99

by Chet – gone for good?

chet

For good.
(this is a last response too)

John D

The Conservatives wouldn't pay enough to cover post-election analysis?

BGLong

A word on the people who hire the people we seem to hate …

http://dwmw.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/politics-the…

Andrew (not PorC)

See you in 2015!

modster99

lol
john g

Interesting…2 million new voters for the NDP, but by my count they only gained about 7 or 8 new seats outside of Quebec.

LdKitchenersOwn

How is that interesting?

I mean, is it not simply possible that the vast majority of those 2 million new votes were in Quebec? Or possibly that they racked up some huge margins in safe ridings?

madeyoulook

By the looks of it, it seems many of those safe ridings with huge margins were IN Québec.

I'm sure my comfortable sense of understanding the world around me will come back eventually…

LdKitchenersOwn

LOL, good point.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

By the way, yes, a Harper majority will allow him to do more of what he and his party want to do. On the flip side, however, it will also allow all the opposition parties to actually oppose things without having to worry if it will be put to the test of a confidence vote. It will also allow everyone to take a deep breath and not worry about an existential crisis around every corner (although for the Liberals and Bloc it may already be too late for that). So, in at least some ways, majority governance will make life easier for both sides – at least for a while. Even for the Liberals, who will have some time to maybe finally take a look in the mirror. You never know.

http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

Good comment.
Mark

Agree here too. The LPC need time with no threat of an election to figure out their party.

Let me lay out the LPC strategy for the next four years. Then everyone tell me where I've gone wrong:

1. Elect Quebec Francophone leader. I don't know who, he just has to speak French and come from Quebec.
2. Move away from the left, towards the centre. Offer an alternative to the crazy, complacent right wing CPC and the crazy, inexperienced left-wing NDP Don't keep framing the party as a left-wing party. LPC doesn't feel like an 'authentic' left-wing party. The NDP will eat your lunch every time if you keep acting like this.
3. ???
4. Win election.
http://onelinecritic.wordpress.com/ DirtyOldTown

Just one of the reasons I'm still not 100% sold on proportional representation, no matter how appealing it is in theory. FPP may not deliver the same kind of democratic representation we sometimes crave, especially when we don't like the outcome of an election, but it does deliver long periods of stability, and allows governments to make quick decisions that might otherwise hinge on endless debate and negotation. It will be interesting to see what happens in the UK referendum Thursday.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

We've had at least two provincial referendums that have rejected PR, so there doesn't appear to be this democratic uprising against FPTP. You're right. Canadians seem to prefer the option of stability that our current system offers, as do Americans, and maybe still Brits and co.

LdKitchenersOwn

it will also allow all the opposition parties to actually oppose things without having to worry if it will be put to the test of a confidence vote

Plus, for the first time in a long time NO ONE has to worry about who's getting support from the Bloc. I think that even a lot of Tory supporters giddy from the majority win might agree that the decimation of the Bloc is arguably the best thing that happened last night.

Mr. King

Man, every time I remember what happened to the Bloc last night I get this ENORMOUS $&*!-eating grin. That is just so awesome. Thanks again, Jack — I'll never vote for you, but you're still alright.

SanDiegoDave

Excellent point Dennis.

Now please tell me you're not a paid partisan like chet, Cats, and Ms Verhoeven.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

I don't get this tendency by some on here to label anyone who disagrees with them as a paid hack.

http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

"Never engage in actual discussion, just endlessly rehash talking points" + "ditch the boards right after the election" = reasonable suspicion.

Hell, I liked Danby, and he did engage well, but when he left on election night that made my Spidey sense tingle too.
SanDiegoDave

Hey I purposely and conscientiously didn't use the word 'hack'. Don't put words in my mouth if you please. My goal on these boards is to speak to you as if you were standing right in front of me.

http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

So you want me to take being called a paid hack to my face? Or whatever you want to call it?

http://idrinkinthemorning.com Rick Omen

You've spent this entire election accusing everybody who said anything even remotely supportive of the CPC, of being a paid hack. I don't think you have any evidence to back this up. Maybe, just maybe, you should wrap your head around the fact that some other people just don't agree with you.

Do you really think that commentors on a blog are going to swing any votes? Do you actually envision some confused Canadian coming across this blog, reading one of your posts and saying "Jeez, Dave from San Diego's right! I'm voting Liberal!"? The Facebook, Twitter, whatever election was a smokescreen put up by the Liberals and the media.

In fact, your last 5 comments here are accusing others of being paid hacks, which makes me think that YOUR the Liberal hack. Which would be doubly interesting since the LPC would be hiring hacks from San Diego now. So tell us Dave from San Diego, are you a Liberal hack? Have you ever received money from the LPC?

SanDiegoDave

Damn, they're on to me.

um….

Have you no sense of decency sir, at long last. Have you no sense of decency?

Peter

To think that a single vote can be moved on an obscure blog like this read only by tribal partisans is delusional. To think that the CPC would waste money paying people to post here is beyond delusional.

LdKitchenersOwn

I'm quite certain that chet doesn't get paid.

You don't have to pay robots.

rick

"…So, in at least some ways, majority governance will make life easier for both sides…" That, we're gonna see within the next 4 years obvisouly if Candians will regret their new majority gov't or not.
I really don't care if it "will make life easier for both sides" ?
It's only the Canadian side I care about, and this is why we literally "pay" for these parties, majority or not, to make life easier for Canadians. That why we vote them in.

http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

A little gross, but even less net!

(I'll get my coat.)
Thwim

There is a chinese curse that essentially says, "May you live in interesting times", because when you think about it, any "times" that are "interesting" in history are typically times of immense suffering for the people who lived in them.

That said, I do wonder about all these folks who have to say the Liberals have to do some serious self reflection — and do what? Become conservatives? Become NDP? Is there no place in Canada left for people who would prefer policies developed on pragmatic considerations rather than ideologic? I fear that may be the case. We've become so self-entitled, we no longer have the ability to accept a party which does not gives us everything we want.. whether that be the full security as people characterize the NDP supporters desiring, or total freedom from government as people characterize the CPC supporters desiring. And the sad fact is, we don't have enough resources for the former to work, and are too big a society for the latter to work.
jonatwitan

Ach! Now it's 1,600,000 Liberals who have decided not to vote! Someone needs to give those Liberals a good talking to about their civic duty! Perhaps Professor Ignatieff could put together a lecture series ;)
FVerhoeven

Those numbers will finally put the vote-splitting theories to rest.

The CPC and the NDP won last night on their own merrits mostly.

Great outcome for Canadian politics.

Both whining parties are the big loosers, as it should be.

Only the CPC and the NDP had a clear vision to bring before the voters and the voters understood that much. It's the reporting media which has not understood that fact throughout this campaign.

When will Macleans do a piece on evaluating the media's role? Investigate how much of the media's anti-Harper attitude in fact HELPED Harper………….That's part of the story here. Why not cover that one??
John D

It's good to see that winning a majority has not done anything to dampen the Conservative Victim Complex.
http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

Or they decided to vote Conservative. Talk about Get Out the Vote!
http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

Ah, but would a Conservative majority be possible if there was only one major party on the left? That debate will start shortly, if it hasn't already.
Thwim

Wow.. boy was I wrong.

More proof, I guess, that the plural of anecdote does not equal data. Hearing a few people say they wouldn't be able to vote CPC again, while not having heard any say the same thing about the Liberals, and knowing the performance of Dion previously led me to thinking that we'd seen the Liberal vote bottom out last time, just as the CPC vote under Harper had hit its ceiling.

It will be interesting to see how well Mr. Harper can manage the economy on his own. The past 5 years he's had to make sure he had some balance for the progressive parties. No longer. And he'll have a lot of pressure on him to take all the brakes off. No longer can he blame the minority situation as holding him back.

I just hope I'm not using interesting in the chinese curse sense of the word.
FVerhoeven

Yes, over the next four years it will become apparent how much Canada is changing. There are two opposing visions happening in Canada: one the one hand there are Canadians who would like to find back the independent spirit which has served this country so well for so long – less government and more individual independence for making Canada great.

On the other hand, there are Canadians who have grown too soft over the years, starting with the Trudeau era, and the by far those people can be found in Quebec.

Don't underestimate what Jack's victory actually amounts to: his win is merely a vote by the Quebeckers to jump on a bandwagon for getting more than they are entitled to, promised by Jack. Most Canadians will not stand for such attitude over the long run.

Now that Harper has his four years without the opposition parties doing most of the dirty politicking, Harper will be able to show his vision for Canada, and if there are no serious scandals forthcoming during the next four years (knock on wood!!) then Harper's vision will be favoured over Layton's vision. Just wait and see.
Canada is ready to go in new bold directions and such direction will never be set by Layton's left wing and the opportunistic Quebeckers.
McC_

the economy doesn't need government, except when it's the Harper Government, then, like Atlas, the whole world's fate rests on his great shoulders.
jonatwitan

I think I provided a nice analogy to illustrate this fallacy earlier, something about my whole family hating sushi, and so me not understanding why all these sushi restaurants are open, and being quite certain that they will all go out of business soon, because after all, every Sunday at dinner everyone I talk to says they hate the stuff.
http://secondthots.blogspot.com Dennis_F

I'm not sure we're there yet. In fact, I think things are better for Harper than that. Why? He's got an opposition consisting of a party with MPs who go to Vegas during elections, or have to meet dorm curfew on week nights, and of a party that is dying a slow but almost certain death.

In fact, it's not a situation dissimilar to the one faced on the right a decade ago. Until that is solved, and I don't think it will be any time soon, it's not even a competition between two visions. It will be Harper running the country with the only respectable and professional political operation in the country on the one hand, and an opposition that is split and not to be taken seriously on the other. In other words, for Harper, it's gold.

Maybe in an election or two we'll see the complete reconfiguration you're speaking of. Maybe a left-wing merger will happen even sooner. But I doubt it. The Liberals have way too much pride, and the NDP too much raw ambition. Pass the popcorn.
chet

A prize to Paul Wells,

who, although may lean liberal as I suspect virtually all Journalists do, worked hard these last weeks to ensure that whatever his personal preferences, he still called it fairly straight.

One down, a few hundred to go.
modster99

I agree. Paul has risen in esteem in my books. (and I have a subscription to Macleans – hadn't been to fond of him up until this election).

He kept his bias in check, and did some great reporting.
FVerhoeven

I'm not sure if most journalists lean Liberal or if most of them just do not understand that Canada is changing.

It seems to me that the media for the most part has not yet caught up to the fact that the old Canada is gone. Population shifts and shifts in economic growth have occurred over the years and will shift even more as time goes on. Western Canada is now a major player in Canadian politics. That's a major shift. The central media is very reluctant to accept that shift. Listen to the CBC (last night and this morning) and listen to Iggy this morning when he resigned. He still blames it all on CPC attack ads for the last two years. Such rubbish. There were no attack ads by saying that Iggy had lived abroad for most of his adult life; it was all true. Iggy didn't get it. He didn't understand that a Liberal party could not be saved by simp;y pulling someone in there, just because he had "credentials"
Atchison

Agreed. Cudos to Mr. Wells for his excellent election coverage. I look forward to next week's issue.
TimesArrow

It needn't go that way for the NDP?LIBs. Granted the libs have a huge task ahead of them. It's hard to see them playing any meaningful part in whatever occurs between Harper and Jack. But don't underestimate what the dippers have pulled off here…i heard Cannon[ a cabinet minister] was defeated by a karate guy fur crisake…it is unreal. They have room to grow or implode i suppose. But Harper is gonna have to take note of them if only because of Quebec.__As fr the libs. I see three choices. The hardest – return to their roots – one Canada yadda yadda. You may not like it. But with a new grassroots game and a saleable leader[ Leblanc??] they do have a constituency.Particularly if the CPC screw up.
Then there's merger – that's a final hail mary – half the party might go to Harper, depending.__An interesting third way might be to stay separate but in aworking open coalition. Work or try to work on their area of strength. Libs -ON.Perhaps the maritimes. NDP -QC and elsewhere. I think the third one may be the best if not the most realistic. Can't say i've thought it right through just now. Thoughts?
jonatwitan

Liberal supporters, in particular, need to stop adding their vote to the Bloc Québécois vote in search of some sort of consolation prize. That's a little gross.
————————-

Sorry Paul, but the alternative is accepting reality, and Liberals just aren't ready to do that yet. Better to continue pretending that they deserve to be in government and it's only an unfortunate accident that they are not.
Andrew (not PorC)

"He's just in it for himself"

Yeah. Just a pure statement of facts. You're delusional.
FVerhoeven

Well, how whould you explain Iggy's departure this morning? Was he in it for the long haul? DID he come back to stick with the party to rebuild it? HUH, NO!!!

I'm delusional?? Was nice knowing you, Andrew. I'm outta here.

Canada will be fine now Harper is charge

But I'm not so sure about the students getting further instructions from Iggy. I fear for their future.mindset….haha. But then again, it will keep these boards going, and going….
SanDiegoDave

You were a paid Conservative poster too eh? Cats came out, then Chet, and now you.

Didn't Potter have a term for you types?
http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

On the plus side, I had the opportunity to give chet a thumbs-up on one of his posts today.
Holly Stick

Well, the term Carson uses is "fiance".
SanDiegoDave

It's kind of disappointing. I thought I was having a conversation with these folks when in actual fact, they were being paid to spout talking points. No listening or consideration of other viewpoints ever occurred at their end.

Bloody shame.
http://halooverride.blogspot.com/ Halo_Override

I have a confession to make. I'm Joe Clark.
alfanerd

and, as an Albertan, you enjoy being stolen from by Quebec? good for you buddy. my original point was that Quebecers are a bunch of whiny groupthinking lemmings, and this point stands. I dont think this label applies to Albertans even though they vote largely the same because unlike Quebec, they have good historical reasons to vote the way they do. if you disagree, let's hear why, otherwise, you can keep your snark to yourself.
craigola

There are oil companies that are currently stealing a great deal more from me and Albertans like me than any Quebecer has ever managed. Albertans have good historical reasons to vote the way they do, but Quebecers don't? That's mighty subjective of you, but thanks for the epiphany. If I devote any more thought or energy to you, you'll also have stolen more from me than any Quebecer has ever managed.
And, in case you haven't read any Dennis_F lately, it's not snark. It's freedom of speech, and you infringe upon it if you so much as give it a dirty look.
alfanerd

I relieve you from devoting any more though or energy to you. Any more thought or energy you devote to me is from your own free will :)

Oil companies have invested billions and employ thousands of people, including many aboriginals in Alberta who would otherwise be unemployed. And you know what: they produce oil. That oil is needed to bring food to people all over the world and to allow that student to take his little trip after graduation so that he can "find himself" or whatnot. As much as it's cliche and easy to make oil companies the big bad behemoth, they are actually very important and helpful. More so than any NGO or union or other BS "progressive" group.

As for Quebecers, they're the spoiled brats of Confederation. They've been blackmailing us with the threat of separation for decades and we've been paying ransom every year in the form of equalization payments (about 8 billion a year), for economic wounds that are entirely self-inflicted. There is no good reason why Quebec isnt stinking rich, other than the fact that it's been infected by socialist hordes.

As for your freedom of speech, Dennis_f notwithstanding, Im pretty sure it's safe from the likes of me.