Categories: Need to know

Russian jets could top F-35s: report

Canada’s new jets defeated in simulation

by macleans.ca on Wednesday, September 7, 2011 12:55pm - 20 Comments

Canada’s next generation of fighter jets won’t fare well in dogfights against newer Russian planes, says a report in an online forum. The story, based on an anonymous source who claims to have seen a presentation to an unnamed NATO country, says the F-35 “would be consistently defeated by the Russian-made SU-35 fighter aircraft.” Canada has already committed to buying $9 billion F-35s.

F-16.net

Tags: F-35, F-35s

Anonymous

In fairness, anybody who thought we were purchasing 35 of these because they would serve as some sort of deterrence against Russia invading is a complete and utter moron to begin with.

The only field in which the purchase of this amount of these planes are any good are when we decide to bomb the crap out of some underdeveloped brown people who happen to live on land with oil underneath.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Fred-A-Quesnel/100000572311867 Fred A. Quesnel

Yup … only for shooting suspected terrorists off their camels …!!!!

Like all military projects, it’s only justified as a massive make-work endeavor. The F-35 will give Canadians more jobs than any other aircraft … particularly in Quebec, Ontario and maybe Manitoba.

Americans probably have their 5th or 6th generation fighter jets on the drawing boards now …!!!

Anonymous

Seriously, has Macleans stooped to this? Printing an unattributed rumour from an “anonymous source” who claims to have seen something from a presentation to some unnamed people in some unnamed country? Why not just forget pretending to have any journalistic integrity and just print Boeing brochures ( from which company this rumour almost certainly came) ?

Anonymous

In fairness, anybody who thought we were purchasing 35 of these because
they would serve as some sort of deterrence against Russia invading is a
complete and utter moron to begin with.

You mean like this guy? He does seem to pop up every now and then to tell us about the immanent threat of Russian bombers invading Canada and how the only way to save us is with these really cool-looking overpriced jets. Or am I thinking of someone else… it’s hard to keep everyone straight with all the troubles lapping at our shores.

Anonymous

In fairness, anybody who thought we were purchasing 35 of these because they would serve as some sort of deterrence against Russia invading is a complete and utter moron to begin with.

The only field in which the purchase of this amount of these planes are any good are when we decide to bomb the crap out of some underdeveloped brown people who happen to live on land with oil underneath.
indie_light

The only significant fact about this article is that the S-35 has been flying around Russian air space since 1988 and is actually su-27 airframe(in operation since 1984) with supermaneuverability thrusters while the F35 is still not in active service. The thrusters is what means the SU-35 will dominate the dogfight but the F35 will still dominate the airspace because it built from the ground up as a fifth generation fighter, integrating the latest stealth and battle field coordination technologies.

That is, at least for two years until the PAK-FA enters service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA
Anonymous

Can anyone keep a straight face and say that Canada or, for that matter, North America is likely to come under attack by a massive wave of bombers – therefore we need F35s . I don’t think so. Sounds to much like 1960 Cold war thinking. The world has evolved way past that insanity! For the forseeable future the nations of the world that even have a remote capability to attack us militarily are Russia, China and the USA. [Lets rule out the USA]. These nations are going to need our resources. Insanely bombing us into oblivion would not be in their best interests. They don’t have the capability to occupy and remove resources from our land. It is much easier for them to simply buy our property and resources. And that is what is happening. Therein lies the major threat to the future of our country.
Scrap the F35 purchase now!

Anonymous

While everything you say is true, unfortunately our military pilots are flying over places like Libya in very old F-18′s so we do seem to be using the jets.

Anonymous

Please don’t tell me that we would, in support of NATO, be buying an aircraft capable of attacking third world nations. That makes no sense! NATO has evolved from its original role of protecting Europe from a perceived threat from Russia and other eastern bloc nations to a role of policing and beating up on third world nations who do not conform to our western “standards”. Do Canadians want to be a part of that organization. I think not!

Anonymous

I don’t know that I would characterize supporting freedom fighters in Libya as “beating up on [a] third world” country. Some of my family worked in Libya 27 years ago. Gadhafi was a monster then.

Anonymous

Do you think the replacements will be any better. Like you, I hope so but would not bet the farm on it!

Anonymous

Maybe you think not; however, Harper clearly does. “a handful of soldiers…”

Anonymous

We know what our PM thinks. What do you think?

In my view,we don’t need F35s at any price. There is no legitimate military requirement for them. We should not burden our children and grandchildren by making them pay for this colossal waste!
Anonymous

I think we need to replace our current jets. I’m not convinced (a) that the F-35 is the right choice; (b) that, if they are the best choice, that we aren’t getting ripped off on the price (as I’ve seen reports that others are getting the same jets for much less).

We need a proper procurement process – one that clearly sets out the intended mission for the jets and then solicits bids based on that. But yes, I think we need new jets.

(I also wouldn’t be so quick to rule out an invasion from the US – not in the immediate future, but the way their politics are going, it’s well within the worst-case range of possibilities for the next 20 years or so. Still improbable at present, but much less so than a decade ago.)

Siendra .

An anonymous source in an online forum? Also, the Canadian government doesn’t sign the F35 Purchase order until 2013 – we’ve “committed” to nothing.

This is impressively bad reporting.

Matt Ramsden

I think it’s perfectly fair to use the term “committed.” The government has been very clear, repeatedly, that it will purchase the jets. The common use of “has committed” (especially in the case of governments) is not the same as “is contractually obligated” and allows for the possibility of weaseling out later on.

Anonymous

delete comment
Anonymous

Uh-oh! Tell Harper to put his Siberian invasion plans on hold…
Anonymous

Keith: Surely you do not think that we could hold off a military assault from the USA. No matter – that won’t happen. They might be able to take us over, as might the Russians or Chinese, by first destroying us economically.

As I see it, the real threat to our sovereignty is an economic threat.
The threat is that unaffordable actions by our government will bankrupt our country. To defend our “sovereignty” we need to counter the economic threat to our Arctic, protect our coastal fisheries, deal with internal unrest, root out terrorist cells, and, most importantly, keep our country financially viable, etc. A tactical force with suitable air transport is what is needed.

Since we have a limited defense budget my fear is that by purchasing the very expensive F35 we will undermine our ability to deal with credible threats. We must spend wisely on efforts to assert our sovereignty even if such efforts cost as much or more than the F35 program. With the threat I envisage the F35 contributes very little towards enhancing the sovereignty of our nation.

I hasten to add that the F35 or something like it would look very cool at air shows! What a colossal waste!
Anonymous

Keith: Surely you do not think that we could hold off a military assault from the USA. No matter – that won’t happen. They might be able to take us over, as might the Russians or Chinese, by first destroying us economically.

As I see it, the real threat to our sovereignty is an economic threat.
The threat is that unaffordable actions by our government will bankrupt our country. To defend our “sovereignty” we need to counter the economic threat to our Arctic, protect our coastal fisheries, deal with internal unrest, root out terrorist cells, and, most importantly, keep our country financially viable, etc. A tactical force with suitable air transport is what is needed.
Since we have a limited defense budget my fear is that by purchasing the very expensive F35 we will undermine our ability to deal with credible threats. We must spend wisely on efforts to assert our sovereignty even if such efforts cost as much or more than the F35 program. With the threat I envisage the F35 contributes very little towards enhancing the sovereignty of our nation.

I hasten to add that the F35 or something like it would look very cool at air shows! What a colossal waste!