Majority of Canadians see “irreconcilable” rift between Islam and the West

56 per cent feel differences impossible to overcome: poll

by macleans.ca on Monday, September 12, 2011 11:07am - 213 Comments

Results from a recent poll reveal that a majority of Canadians surveyed feel there is an ideological rift between the Muslim world and the West which is “irreconcilable.” Of the 1,500 consulted in the week before the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, 56 per cent felt the West and the Muslim world could not overcome their perceived differences. Thirty-three per cent felt they could be reconciled, while 11 per cent did not answer the question. The poll was conducted by Leger Marketing on behalf of the Montreal-based Association for Canadian Studies, whose director, Jack Jedwab, told Postmedia News that the survey’s results contradict “a fundamental idea in multicultural democracies like ours that conflicts between societies can be resolved through dialogue and negotiation.” However, Jedwab said the result provided a slight “ray of hope” in that 52 per cent of Canadians say it’s wrong to conduct extra airport security checks on people who “appear to be of Muslim background.”

Postmedia

 

 

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  • Anonymous

    I suspect the questions in this survey were not very fair, as it says “Islam versus the West”.

    I’d understand “Islam versus Christians”, or “East versus West”, but “Islam versus the West” doesn’t make sense to me.  Muslims have no problem with “The West” as many live there.  

    Framing surveys and news articles this way fuels ignorance, and confuses people about what is important when it comes to terrorism – motive.  The motive has more to do with Western bases on Eastern soil, and Western companies taking Eastern resources.

  • Anonymous

    To ignore or gloss over the differences between different peoples and different cultures is to reject and deny diversity rather than embrace it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3BDEBDHC6ODQ2C72NKNEL4HQ54 bilz

    @ Open2Debate ” Did you vote for Harper

    I do not know about .This time I did.’ I am no enemy to Sikhs  Hindus
    Muslims Bahais Christian and Jews and Israelis”.This pure analysis via
    by chance discoveries.Pope bedict XV1 said :”God existed at Universe
    creation”.Religion came later  Pharoa Mayan Hindus ppolo zeus
    zorastrian judaism Jesus Christ Christian then Islam.Lately past few
    years Sikhs of Vancouver,Bahais of mohammed bahaullah of Haifa
    (Israel).etc.Said Dalai Lama (two days ago):” even His  buddhist is
    divided into party of religion and party of evil.This equates to
    Islamic:”party of god party of satan ,party of Noah and party of son
    (drowned with party of unbelievers).Sweden ,Holland,Denmark.Norway
    promoted Holy Prophet cartoon with bomb in the Turban.Only siks
    originally do not allow cutting hair often 1ft ft ft  hair wrapped insit
    Turban (still used by many turban 11 ft long.Recent massacre by Norway
    Breviek showed Sikhani female as deputy leader of Youth wind Labour
    party in ayatollah style 3 ft turban with o ft hair.But as a leader
    sitting in world univ format Egypts 1300 yr Univ format of lecture was
    by chance discovery.Breviek blamed religion on zeus  in Turkey ,admiired
    Hindutvas Nazis symbol  girit wilder scandinavian cartoon salman rusdie
    Holy prophet’ cartoon and was in dealing with sikh and hindu rich.This
    is pure analysis too.rift between 1.6 billion Muslim living in 150
    countries (out of UN 193) is then between 4 million Tata bahais sikhs 
    20 million jews 10 million zorastrian (so called pre turkey Armenian
    Roman empire) -armenia 3 million and govt of Canada ON ,BC,Alberta with
    sikhs.this rift is one point six billion muslims(their resources mines
    oil gas fields) vs above until muslim must be wrapped up and
    vanquished)?This was by chance discovery  via Norway’s leader of
    sikh/Norway labour party in muslim head dress but sikh 5 k format
    ,Breviek hated blaming muslim with bomb in turban cartoon of shell BP
    Norwagian tankers business!

  • Anonymous

    The 9-11 attacks did exactly what they were designed to do. They made
    predominately Christian western countries put troops on Muslim soil,
    thus providing the driving force to incite the jihadis.

    The philosophical differences between the Judeo-Christain beliefs and
    Islam are irreconcilable.  We don’t emigrate to their countries and tell
    them they must change to accommodate our beliefs.  Our Judeo-Christain
    beliefs don’t preach death to non-believers. 

    The radical Muslim goal is to invade North America by creating one Muslim ghetto at a time, just like they’ve done in Eurabia.

    Muslims who wish to integrate into our society, adopt Canadian culture,
    values, and public attire, are welcome.  Those who expect our society to
    change to accommodate their beliefs are not.

  • Anonymous

    If you want to see the difference between the West and Islam, just draw two cartoons, one of Jesus, and one of Mohammed (the pics don’t  have to be mocking, just draw them picking flowers or something nice) and you’ll see the difference – especially if you sign it with your real name and address.

    Go ahead, try it and see what happens.

    • Nite_Owl

      They consider pictures of their prophet an insult. That’s just their way. Try insulting Jesus and see what kind of reaction you get.

      • Anonymous

        The Organization of Islamic Conferences – the largest UN voting block, consisting of 57 Muslim countries, has been pushing for member countries to make such drawings of Mohammed illegal, under “anti-blasphemy” laws of the sort that are common in Islamic countries, but which have been in the dustbin of history for a while now in the secular democratic West.

        Wouldn’t you say that introducing anti-blasphemy laws into countries that uphold the right to freedom of speech would be a step backward, and a violation of said freedom?

        Wouldn’t you agree that anti-blasphemy laws to protect ANY religion are diametrically opposed to Western values, the cornerstone of which is free speech?

        Or would you be quite happy to continue to chip away at the freedoms of the West just so non-Westerners who chose to come here don’t get their little feelings hurt?

        • Nite_Owl

          All I’m saying is it’s an insult to do so and we all know it so why do we choose to insult people on purpose? We don’t need laws against it. All that’s required is good manners. Is that too much to ask?

          • Anonymous

            Why not learn to grow a thick hide?  Why not learn the phrase “sticks and stones can break my bones but words (or drawings) cannot hurt me”?

            Instead of us taking sensitivity training, perhaps they should be taking desensitivity training?

            I mean, they’re the ones choosing to come to our culture, right? They should be the ones learning to adjust, shouldn’t they?

          • Nite_Owl

            We used to be known the world over for our good manners. Maybe it wasn’t that important in your family. I don’t know why but if you feel you need to insult people on purpose to preserve your freedoms I guess that’s your right and in that vein I guess it’s their right to be offended by your insults.

          • Anonymous

            That offense thing is a pretty slippery slope.   Should we ban EVERYTHING that causes offense?

            I’m offended by hunting, particularly the hunting of wild canids.   Should we ban it because I don’t like it?

            If Muslims insist hard enough that they are offended by women who do not cover all their hair, should it be a law for non-Muslim women to be forced to wear a hijab, niqab or burka – in Canada?  What if they declare they are offended by dog ownership (which has been banned in Iran)?  The pork industry?  The alcohol industry?

            If HIndus were to decide that the eating of beef is offensive, should we ban the Alberta beef industry?  What about k. d. lang’s feelings?

            Should “Free Tibet” signs and flags be banned so as not to offend the Chinese?  What if they say they are offended that we do not honour their culinary traditions by allowing dog or cat to be served?

            Be very careful here.

      • Anonymous

        Uh, Jesus gets made fun of numerous forms of media all of the time, including many movies (hell, look at South Park…).

      • dannycalli

        Muslims consider pictures of Muhammed an insult because the followers kind of get red faced when they see Muhammed(54) with one of his wives Aysha(6 years old) in his arms.

      • Anonymous

        None, generally.  Oh, sure: they write letters.  When they stab me with one, I’ll let you know.

        • Anonymous

          Ahhh…..Lke Theo van Gogh let everyone know?

  • Nite_Owl

    I have a question. Since it was Saudis who were responsible for 9/11 why are we still friends with them and why was Iraq and Afghanistan invaded? If any invasion were warranted due to 9/11 we should have invaded Saudi Arabia. 

    • Anonymous

      Frankly, we ought to be reassessing our relationship with both Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

      Being able to tell Saudi Arabia to “shove it” is one of the best reasons I’ve ever heard to find alternatives to petroleum.

  • Anonymous

    As long as ones religion means more to him than his country and one is willing to die for his religion but not for his country the problem will always exist and bringing more fundamental Muslims into this country will only exacerbate the problem.

  • Anonymous

    Just reading the comments, one thing pops right out. One commenter, by the Nom-de-web of SteveDobbs obviously attends those white-sheet meetings. This isn’t Mississippi, Stevo. Go home. Your kind isn’t welcome here.
    The danger to Canada comes not from Muslims, but from “people” like him.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3BDEBDHC6ODQ2C72NKNEL4HQ54 bilz

    Said argument:”argument said Islam no good ,a raped girl was unable to fetch 4 witnesses.Family in iraq or pakistan had honour killing due to pregnancy or quran said:”kill the jews or for converting or saudi arabia beheaded or taliban stoned to death a women”.6 cases even if true for argument.But yesterday news were:”in usa 4 women were raped every second,one murder took place every minute
    24 hrs yr round 4 million abortion took place in Japan ,India has legal religion dassi prostitution and transgender hijra with killing abortions” said Islam :”the advantage of drinking beer or alcohol if compared with disadvantage.so it is forbidden’.Muslim do not have aid ,prostitution or need so many abortion .The rapist do exist.

    • Anonymous

      Will you please give up on the stream-of-consciousness verbal diarrhea style and try to formulate your arguments in coherent language? Your posts are unreadable.

  • Anonymous

    The martial side of Jihad (war), has a very clear process and limitations of waging wars.  This idea of an Islamic religious doctrine of global domination through holy war is as ridiculous a myth as the whole 72 virgins thing.

  • Anonymous

    Muslims ruled India for 1000 years and India today is 90% Hindu.  The last caliphate ruled Greece for 400 years and today, Greece is 99% christian.  Muslims ruled Egypt for 400 years before it became the dominant religion.  You need to get educated on the topic before you start making yourself look stupid.
    king

    • Anonymous

      India, Greece, and Spain were in fact once under Muslim rule, but it took a lot of warring to get them out.

      They didn’t leave peacefully.

      • Anonymous

        The point is that they didn’t have a policy of converting everybody.  If they wanted to do that, (like the Spanish in south America for example) then everybody there would be a Muslim. 

        • dannycalli

          The muslims wanted to collect the tax for not being a muslim as cash cow.

          • Anonymous

            Well, if you are going to look at how badly one group treated another…how about the way the English (church of England) treated the Irish Catholics….did not allow them to own land in their own country?   Are we suspicious of the English?

    • dannycalli

      Totally laughable. In India it was Sikhs that stopped the Muslim invasion, but muslims converted the Hindus/buddists by force of Afghanistan/Pakistan.  Muslims killed millions of Hindus. Spain was taken back by Crishtians and every Quran was burned………. 

  • dannycalli

    Reasons why Canada  does not like Islam?

    Muhammed married a 6 year old when he was 54
    He raped slave girls and had 11 wives
    He beheaded a tribe of Jews then raped the wife of the leader of the tribe the same day(he called it marriage lol)
    He lied
    Stole
    Bought, sold, and traded slaves 

    I could go on and on……..

    Read the Hadith and Quran 

    • Anonymous

      Have you read the Bible by chance?  It’s full of all sorts of atrocities and ridiculous things too.

      Actually, here you go, watch this clip and educate yourself a little:

      • dannycalli

        I am not a Christian, but Jesus was nothing like muhammed. The bible is man made and written years after his death. 

        • Anonymous

          Seriously?  So, you actually know how Jesus was like then?  Had many conversations with him, did you?  Get to know him well?  Obviously not, seeing as you read about his life through a man-made book. 

          Here’s another shocker:  the Quran is also man-made!  How on earth do you know what Mohammed was really like at all?

          There’s many parts of the Quran that are interesting and preach good values.  There’s parts that aren’t so good.  Another news flash:  the Bible is the same way!  Go read it and see that there’s good messages mixed in with some pretty terrible ones too.

          • Anonymous

            We get it, You’re a Muslim. And we will not be fooled by your BS!

          • Anonymous

            Actually, I’m Hindu.  So go and f*** yourself.

          • Anonymous

            Actually, I’m Hindu.  So go and f*** yourself.

      • Anonymous

        The only moron on this post is you!

        • Anonymous

          No, folks like you are the cancer of this world.  Go and irradiate yourself please and do the world a GIANT favor.

        • Anonymous

          No, folks like you are the cancer of this world.  Go and irradiate yourself please and do the world a GIANT favor.

      • Anonymous

        The difference is, Christians don’t do those things any more.  Muslims, especially in the old world, often still do.  Can we afford to wait a thousand years while they catch up to the rest of the world?

    • Anonymous

      You nailed it. They will never assimilate, only conquer. 

  • Anonymous

    Some years ago my daughter had a friend in school from a Muslim family. She was invited for a sleep over – the response from her Dad was: “no, it’s not our tradition”. We invited them to BBQ’s, holidays, birthday parties…we tried to make friends, but were alway greeted with the same response: “No, it’s not our tradition”. Unfortunately, I have become jaded on multiculturalism. I see a country divided into little fiefdoms. There are pockets of culture in my town you are not welcome to visit. My forefathers didn’t sacrifice themselves for this. You are in this country because we welcomed you…maybe try welcoming us.    

    • Anonymous

      News flash moron, this isn’t YOUR country either.  This country is the First Nations territory, taken over forcibly by the Europeans. 

      You have one thing right though:  there is a vicious cycle of non-inclusion, which is causing these pocket communities.  But want to know what started the whole vicious cycle (and continues to perpetuate it the MOST)?  The “original” (I use heavy emphasis here on purpose) Canadians that continue to segregate and exploit the “multiculturalism” of Canada as it suits them.

      • Anonymous

        Name calling.  Nice.  Stay classy.

        • Anonymous

          Useless comment that adds nothing of value.  Nice.  Stay idiotic.

    • Anonymous

      I know some white Canadian families that don’t let their kids participate in sleepovers either and what about that “tiger mother” who was featured that didn’t believe in her kids having visits and sleepovers at friends’ houses.  You cannot generalize about an entire religion of 1.5 billion people – some of which are white Canadians – based on your one experience.  

  • Anonymous

    The Canadian form of multiculturalism is clearly a beacon to the World. We here in Canada have peoples from all parts of the former British Empire of all faiths & cultures. We have immigrants from beyond this older polity as well. Canada is seen as a place of the rule of law, and of tolerance. What has changed though is a general decline for the respect & fear, yes FEAR, of authority. Where the mechanisms of Law Enforcement & Justice are to be seen & considered part of the community, not the arm of the  government. People of the Islamic faith, one of the 3 great pillars of the Abrahamic God Mythos, are no different to you or I. They have needs, wants, and aspirations for their lives & the lives of their children. What has to be done is that Religious Order must be subordinated to Secular Order. Leave the matter of God to the time beyond death’s portal. While here on Earth, it is the Law of Man that must be supreme, and that law must be as balanced and as impartial as we can make it. So that all persons, regardless of faith or creed are seen as equals before the Law & that the respect of others is the cornerstone of our great Commonwealth.

  • Anonymous

    Go f*** yourself, you piece of s***.

    • Anonymous

      Stay even more classy.

      • Anonymous

        One doesn’t need to be classy to make good points.  Which you are absolutely incapable of making, you stupid f***.

      • Anonymous

        One doesn’t need to be classy to make good points.  Which you are absolutely incapable of making, you stupid f***.

  • Anonymous

    The poll, regrettably, and like almost all polls, is poorly framed. 

    It is impossible to know from such a poll where a majority of Canadians sees this conflict between Islamic civilization and Western civilization – and let us not quibble over those terms. Presumably, the implicit inference is to the legal, and popular – let us not deny that either – violations of what we consider conventional human rights in the former.  It would be difficult to argue that these do not occur. Nor can their fact be wished away by absurd anti-relativist statements; it is not that our culture is so great, but that there are objections to the values of other cultures that are probably well-founded. I am sure that they, similarly, object to elements of ours; sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong and sometimes they are irrelevant.  But it is their right to criticise, as it is ours. In which world is healthy criticism not of value?

    Thus the question really should be “are elements of Islamic religio-social-political culture irreconcilable with Western social democracy?”  And the answer, of course, is ‘yes’.  Of course there are such elements.  Similarly, there are elements of Catholic bureaucracy and social convention that are not reconcilable with Western social democracy: similarly Protestantism, Communism and Fascism. The problem, as many people do not see, is that such reactionary social conservatism has a much wider and broader and legal support in Islamic countries than here; this difference might be chalked up to social inertia, or religious retardation of humanitarian development. (Those ignorant of the depth of this sentiment should examine other polls out of Jordan, Pakistan and the now Brotherhood-bound Egypt.) But either base cause will serve; conservative Islamic politico-religious ideology is not wanted here, and neither should a socially responsible person want it permitted anywhere at all.  We have enough of our own, and having just finally lassoed them and wrestled to the ground we want no part of another, even more extreme perspective on social justice and individual rights, thankyou, and particularly as Islamism rejects our central premise of the separation of church and state, BNA notwithstanding. In this sense it is all very well to point fingers at similarly intemperate language in Judaism and Christianity and presumably in sects or aspects of Hindu or Jain or Buddhist belief – if only they were inferring with conventional human rights on the basis of religion and backed by the support of the state. Someday again they well might; but not anytime soon, and not if we are careful.

    Because this debate is made by humans, and because we are really very simple primates, much of what goes on is brow-beating and cheap, unrealistic parallels.  This should stop. The issue is a little more serious than knee-jerk reactions and provocation.  Perspective is called for; and rationality.

  • Anonymous

    If Islam were just another religion, I don’t think people would care all that much.  However, Islam is also a political ideology, with it’s own set of laws (Sharia) which dictate every aspect of Muslim life (most notably that God (Allah)’s word is the highest law, even above the secular laws of the home nation).  Now I don’t believe that all (or even most) Muslims are Islamic supremacists, but I would suspect that many of those who ARE are motivated, politically astute, and often hold prominent positions within the Muslim community. And as criticism of Islam is frowned upon (legislation criminalizing this under the guise of freedom of religion is underway in the US), regular peaceful Muslims will almost never speak out and denounce the violent or supremacist actions of the radical minority.  Those who do are often threatened with violence themselves.  This minority, like it or not, is leading Islam around by the nose because of this, tarnishing the image of Muslims around the world.  Time and time again it has been stated that it is the Muslim community itself that must rise up and put a stop to the radicals who are causing the problem. As time goes on and “the West” has seen fit to defend itself from violence while waiting in vain for Muslims to correct the problem themselves, that very defense has been used by the radicals to stigmatize the Muslim community even further, inventing words like “Islamophobia” and the belief that Muslims are somehow being unfairly persecuted (when in fact people, businesses and governments have often gone out of their way to make Muslims feel included and tried to accommodate their needs).  The fact that so many left-wing groups have taken up this false assumption is rather ironic, since they would be the first to suffer punishment if the radical Islamic faction finally got their way and Sharia was implemented in western nations.  War is Deceit, after all.

    • Anonymous

      Great post. Hit the nail on the head.

  • Anonymous

    I think Christianity is irreconcilable with the west too,Churches should be banned in Norway,Germany,and Ireland.

    Lets see how Fox News reacts when Christians try to build a Victory Church on Utoya Island.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XVF2H6OHF3ZDD5KSCDI76AHOHI Jim Smith

    the 33% were Muslims.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XVF2H6OHF3ZDD5KSCDI76AHOHI Jim Smith

    Contemporary global politics is the age of Muslim wars. Muslims fight each  other and they fight non-Muslims far more often than do peoples of other  civilizations. Muslim wars have replaced the cold war as the principal form of  international conflict. These wars include wars of terrorism, guerrilla wars, civil wars and interstate conflicts. These instances of Muslim violence could congeal into one major clash of civilizations between Islam and the West or between  Islam and the Rest. That, however, is not inevitable, and it is more likely  that violence involving Muslims will remain dispersed, varied and frequent.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5ZLY3NXT6UWT5PICX7S35WEKJM C V Taaffe

    I would conclude all the discussion by saying that all religions are bad for your health and some of them are worse. The best would be if they did not exist. But we live in real word and I think, that every litle that each of us can do to this goal is a big contribution to the humanity.

  • Anonymous

    Why is it that wherever muslims are in majority they have wars and fights between themselves e.g. Bahrain?
    Why is it where-ever muslims are in a minority they either plan to fight/bomb the country they live in or collect welfare from (Canada) or actually do so  e.g. USA, India. Incidentally all these countries are progressive democracies and secular. Isn’t this stabbing in the back and the lowest of mentalities and of course cowardice else they wouldn’t be murdering unarmed innocents.

    Is it becomes muslims have not yet evolved as a human race? Is it because they are genetically aggressive? Or is their ideological book written by a pedophile, robber gang head to blame? You have even their kids spouting theories like “Jihad is good. If someone does not agree with you, then you can fight them. The whole world should become Islamic etc.”

    Giving examples of random acts of violence by other religions like Christianity does not justify everyday mass murderers. 

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