Categories: Polls

Do you support the federal government’s move to ban a possible strike at Air Canada?

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by macleans.ca on Thursday, October 13, 2011 3:21pm - 51 Comments

annoyed again

Why would you put an idiotic reason for a yes or no answer. What if I agree “no” but not with your idiotic reason? I hate this sort of thing!
summerleo

Really they should be so lucky they have jobs and most average folks don’t even have unions or options to strike so really just suck it up and if you don’t like it get a new job.

http://twitter.com/MatBabiak Матей Бабяк

Clearly you don’t understand the point of unions, or collective bargaining.
Anonymous

If most average folks don’t have unions, whose fault would that be, I wonder?
Progressive Worker

Unions provide a basic standard that would other wise not exist in our society. The bottom line is the Capatilistc system gives no regard for the employee. They are merely an instrument in achieving profit.

Veertje

When Air Canada workers accepted the job, they knew what the job was, what was expected of them, what conditions at times they would work in etc…. it should not be a surprise or come as a surprice that they are expected to accept these conditions or terms. If and when they are not happy with the circumstanses, they can always leave and find another job with perks. Who can fly for $20.00 to Nova Scotia? or $60.00 to Mexico? Last time I flew I paid $372,49 to fly from Calagry to Kamloops….

Anonymous

Get back to us when you understand what a contract negotiation is, then you might be able to come up with a point.
Progressive worker

Based on that belief we would still be using child labour in sweat shops.

O. Cosgrove

Air Canada is a privately-owned, not publicly-owned company, and the federal government has no business interfering in its business. That it tried – and may continue to try – to do so is more
proof that it aspires to bust, and preferably to destroy, unions. Union members represent the middle class, not “working” class, and the vast majority of us are middle class. If government destroys unions, whose next on the hit list?

healthcare insider

As long as you agree that the government won’t bail out Air Canada when they go broke and alll those workers lose their jobs.

http://twitter.com/MatBabiak Матей Бабяк

If they go broke, its because the CEOs keep sucking the company dry with bonuses at the expense of their entire company and operation.

healthcare insider

Well, I am not sure that you can draw that conclusion. I would guess that the CEO at Westjet is making the same coin as the CEO at Air Canada yet Westjet flourishes and Air Canada flounders…any guesses why? Could it be that the staff at Air Canada SUCK at customer service. Perhaps you should reflect back on the snow storms that ground air service to a halt across Canada a few Christmases ago. Westjet excelled with their excellent treatment of customers; Air Canada was horrible. They have steadily lost customers because they cannot manage to be polite or helpful when you are flying with them.

Anonymous

Which, again, goes back to the CEOs. They’re the ones who ultimately decide who gets hired and who doesn’t. If they can’t control their HR department enough to make sure staff are being friendly, or establish their policies so that people are getting treated well in adverse conditions then that is, at the end of the day, management’s fault.

The sad part is that executive management hardly ever suffers for it. What needs to happen is a huge weakening of the corporate veil, so that when a company goes under, front line staff are the first to receive their severance — even if it needs to come from the assets of the management and shareholders.
healthcare insider

I think you are forgetting something essential – the union.
In a unionized shop – it is not that easy to make sure staff are friendly, etc. because it is not easy to fire them or even discipline them. There has to be an extensive paper trail.
You cannot shift this all onto management because I will tell you that alot of companies have not great managers and still their frontline staff are personable.
Anonymous

Who hired them in the first place?
That’s where management failed.

healthcare insider

As long as you agree that the government won’t bail out Air Canada when they go broke and alll those workers lose their jobs.
Sluggobetts

Flight Attendents are an essential service, the government is still part owner. 80 % is not enough they say, get a life !!!

Democratnic

The government is NO LONGER part owner.
http://twitter.com/MatBabiak Матей Бабяк

Know your facts. Flight attendants are not an essential service. There are other companies to choose from.
http://twitter.com/MatBabiak Матей Бабяк

Know your facts. Flight attendants are not an essential service. There are other companies to choose from.

Kevinsullivan99

Air Canada attendents should realize that the country and the world is on the edge of a recession/depression…don’t be so greedy when millions don’t even have a job.
I, me, me, my…is their attitude…they should wake up and realize it’s not all about them!!!!!!!

Anonymous

I actually agree with you that now is not the time to be demanding raises. Unless, but wait, what is the CEO getting? Did his pay increase? If not, all to the good and I agree with your post. If so, uh, why the double standard?

But the other thing is, even if the union was totally offside in their demands, they had the right to strike when they made the decision, but now the decision’s made the right to strike has mysteriously gone away? What kind of game is it when the rules change part-way through?

healthcare insider

Really 2Jenn, it is about how the whole company is doing financially. Chances are if Air Canada is grounded due to a strike, it will go bankrupt. Other domestic carriers are not in the same financial trouble it is in which speaks to the way the company operates and not only the bad management but the bad customer service. People just don’t want to put up with it anymore. The Canadian government is trying to save the company. The public will go crazy if they bail it out again.

Anonymous

Why the hell are you defending the CEOs right to rape the company? Why is anyone defending this? Chances are, if the CEO and top execs. rape the company enough, it will go bankrupt but that is never mentioned. Not to mention the ridiculousness of mega bonuses when the company–you say so yourself–is badly managed. And yeah, people just don’t want to put up with it anymore.

healthcare insider

I am not “defending” anybody’s right to “rape the company.” I am just stating the reality that every large company has a CEO that is making big dollars. Those CEO’s aren’t the ones that suffer when the company goes bust….we saw that when all those banks were bailed out in the US. All of the little people lost their jobs but the CEO’s walked away with their bonuses.
The CEO of Air Canada will be fine if the company goes broke because he is RICH. The flight attendants on the other hand will not have jobs. Now you can bemoan the fact that the CEO makes sooo much money or you can be realistic and try to save your own job….you do that by listening to your union executive.
Anonymous

Your point is good, and as I said in my first comment I already agree with that. The problem is that taking away the union’s right to strike does nothing to rein in the CEOs bloated remuneration. If you want to do both at the same time, I’m very good with that. This one without the other though, no.
Anonymous

That would be a matter for the shareholders to take up, wouldn’t it?

Anonymous

I actually agree with you that now is not the time to be demanding raises. Unless, but wait, what is the CEO getting? Did his pay increase? If not, all to the good and I agree with your post. If so, uh, why the double standard?

But the other thing is, even if the union was totally offside in their demands, they had the right to strike when they made the decision, but now the decision’s made the right to strike has mysteriously gone away? What kind of game is it when the rules change part-way through?
http://twitter.com/MatBabiak Матей Бабяк

Greedy? They gave back 20% of their paycheck 10 years ago. How’s that for greed?

Pilots and every other Air Canada workers group over the last 10 years have gotten raises to help compensate them. Flight attendants have received 0% back. ZERO.

Define greed for me, please.

healthcare insider

So tell me, what are the Flight Attendants on Air Canada making in comparison to those on the other airlines in Canada? Are they underpaid by industry standards? Are their benefits much different?

skeptic4

Air Canada is a private company and the gov’t has no business sticking their nose into it. If this were an essential service or government service then sure. But if the unions bankrupt it so be it.

healthcare insider

The Union executive is not in favor of the strike. The government can let the strike happen but it would likely bankrupt the company. Are you willing to let Air Canada go out of business permanently or will you insist that the Canadian taxpayers bail out this company as we have before?

name needed

While I agree people should be protected from some employers out there are any of these people reading the news? Times are not great. Air Canada is not a strong company. Many people are out of work and would willingly take any job at this point.

The people currently working for Air Canada knew what the salaries were before they started. They knew the benifits packages. They knew the perks and the difficulties. So unless they are being mistreated physically or mentally or are looking at wage cuts then shut up.

Unions once stood for protecting the little guy. For ensuring a safe work enviroment. For making sure people recieved a fair wage. For advocating against race and sex discrimination in the work place.

Now its seems to be all about the money. Bigger pay checks means bigger union dues afterall. It also means that the best person for the job doesn’t get it if there is someone who has been there longer. Or the person caught stealing or sexually harassing people can’t be fired without a union laywer and litigation involved.

Unions were great when they wre needed but now there are many goverment programs in place that do the same thing they are supposed to do.

Thier time is done. Give the dues back to the employees and get back to your roots Mr. Union.
Kneumann1948

Air Canada is one of the most miserable airlines I ever flew. Terrrible service and the arrogance oif being THE Canadian airline. I would rather be stuck in an airport than fly Air Canada. And West Jet is 10 times better. So let them strike and go out of business. One dynosaur less in this country.

healthcare insider

You are so right about their awful customer service and terrible attitudes but the problem is that we require Canadian competition so the govt. will get pressure to bail them out if they go broke. It is amazing to me that people don’t recognize that this airline has created its own bad situation by treating customers like dirt. It doesn’t have to be that way – Westjet has built a profitable business by treating customers like friends and family.

niltu

The right to strike is not an absolute one. So far the workers have hurt only their own union and they should use the time now to reflect on the impact of their actions and of the extent to which they have been shielded from foreign competition by the government that they are denouncing.
Estiva

I am unemployed and I wish to work for 20% less that they have right now. Unions cause unemployment making hiring expensive. Please let’s be less socialist.

Judyr8

I’m pretty sure the reason they won’t sign any agreement is because they refuse to take a cutback in benefits, which is what air canada is planning and offering, and I’m sorry, I don’t think you would either

healthcare insider

Now wait Judyr8, Estiva just said she is UNEMPLOYED. Hence, she has NO benefits. Would she take a cutback in benefits…undoubtedly yes!
The facts are that Air Canada is not in good financial shape. There is a very good chance that this company could go broke and everyone could lose their jobs. The union executive for the Flight Attendants knows this and recommended that the Flight Attendants take what Air Canada is offering. The Flight Attendants disregarded the union executive and said no. I am a nurse. The union I am in has taken a roll back in wages and benefits in the past and in our most recent contract, we took a pay freeze. Why? There is no money to pay us what we want so unless we are willing to see our colleagues get laid-off, we suck it up and deal with the fianancial reality of the bottom line. Now, exactly what benefits are they losing? Are they going from 100% dental to 80%? OR are they losing their 4 free trips anywhere Air Canada flys per year? How do this benefits weigh against being unemployed?

http://twitter.com/MatBabiak Матей Бабяк

What you’re saying would fly if the CEOs weren’t getting tens of millions in bonuses, and all other Air Canada workers are getting raises.

If nobody else was getting raises, then fine. But the company is making money, others are getting (big) raises. Why should they roll over?

The fact is, Air Canada ownership sees this a chance to squeeze out these women, thinking they will just take what they offer and shut up.

healthcare insider

Where did you get the idea that Air Canada is doing well financially. It is not.

http://twitter.com/MatBabiak Матей Бабяк

What you’re saying would fly if the CEOs weren’t getting tens of millions in bonuses, and all other Air Canada workers are getting raises.

If nobody else was getting raises, then fine. But the company is making money, others are getting (big) raises. Why should they roll over?

The fact is, Air Canada ownership sees this a chance to squeeze out these women, thinking they will just take what they offer and shut up.

Docvog

With all these protests going on against Wall Street, many informed persons are beginning to recognize the disparity between unionized workers – with unsustainable demands- and those making it on their own. Unionized employees threatening to strike and looking for sympathy are not going to get it from the other millions of hard working Canadians without unions who are out there making it for themselves, saving their own retirement savings, working hard, and being innovative. And why should they get the attention?
Amron

Air Canada got a break from the workers when they were in financial difficulty.
The workers accepted a cut in pay to keep the airline in the air.
Air Canada is doing well now. A business cannot do well without dedicated and happy workers.

The conservatives have always supported big business rights to profits over the rights of workers to have a good standard of living.

There is a compromise solution that must be agreed upon between the company and the workers. Interference from the government does not assist the process. The opposite occurs.

There is a ‘sense of personal entitlement for instant gratification’ amongst the Canadian population that should be addressed.
When they could not access their blackberry’s, they were up in arms…Hello?
There are alternative forms of communication.
Think about the possibilities.

Re Air Canada: If there was a short strike, there are other ways to travel. Where there is life, there is a way to solve your travel problem if you choose to think about it for a moment.

http://twitter.com/MatBabiak Матей Бабяк

Agreed, well said.

Amron

Air Canada got a break from the workers when they were in financial difficulty.
The workers accepted a cut in pay to keep the airline in the air.
Air Canada is doing well now. A business cannot do well without dedicated and happy workers.

The conservatives have always supported big business rights to profits over the rights of workers to have a good standard of living.

There is a compromise solution that must be agreed upon between the company and the workers. Interference from the government does not assist the process. The opposite occurs.

There is a ‘sense of personal entitlement for instant gratification’ amongst the Canadian population that should be addressed.
When they could not access their blackberry’s, they were up in arms…Hello?
There are alternative forms of communication.
Think about the possibilities.

Re Air Canada: If there was a short strike, there are other ways to travel. Where there is life, there is a way to solve your travel problem if you choose to think about it for a moment.
jj

Air Canada is a shambles — they have, with government support, suppressed any and all competition (other than West Jet). I do anything I can to avoid flying with them. That said, their workers have the right to strike – and this is the third time this year the government has intervened in union job action. I don’t know if the flight attendants deserve a raise, however I do know that the execs at this airline make a lot of money and I am concerned by the growing trend to deny benefits, pensions, etc. The right to strike was hard fought for — this government seems to think it can do what ever it wants when ever it wants, (and if they don’t like it they prorogue). Whether or not we support the unions, or the flight attendants, the issue here is the government does not have the right to intervene.
Kjmartyn

Unions= Lazy workers.
independent

I regret that AirCanada workers are so poorly paid. At the same time, the Canadian public should not be victims. There must be some other way.
LOUISE &DICK ROTTEVEEL

magazines are for reading and one does not have to always agree with what is written but it keeps you informed and keeps your brains working so you can discuss issues together as a couple wether you agree or dis agree and we enjoy our lives as retirees to the fullest by being informed of all thats going on in this GREAT COUNTRY AND THE WORLD
http://Overgrow.ning.com ElectroPig Von FökkenGrüven

This is merely yet another distraction used to steer the minds of the citizens away from REAL ISSUES which are continuing to occur behind the scenes.

Do the airline employees have a right to strike? YES. Would it have an impact on the economy? Probably…but since we still have boats, cars, trucks, busses, trains, charter flights and private airlines as alternatives, would it destroy the entire economy to suffer through a few less fights on a single airline? No. Would it send a message to corporations that people are fed up with the ever-decreasing quaity of life, in return for nothing more than rising corporate profits? Maybe…and it’s worth a try…but not at the expense of losing coverage in the media of things that WILL affect EVERY Canadian for decades.

This is a little and temporary blip in the grand scheme of things…we need to pay attention to more important issues if we’re going to save Canada from Emperor Harperius’ plans.