Give mom a cigarette break

They may say they’re going out for milk, but secret smokers go to great lengths to feed their habit

by Rebecca Eckler on Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:40am - 306 Comments
Give mom a cigarette break

Photograph by Jenna Marie Wakani

The first rule of the Secret Smokers Mother’s Club is that you don’t talk about the Secret Smokers Mother’s Club. At least you don’t talk about it to anyone who is a non-smoker and especially to mothers who are non-smokers.

Like Alcoholics Anonymous, none of the mothers who secretly smoke are willing to share their names. It makes sense, since many of them have kept their secret for years. “I never smoke in front of my kids. Never. No one in my life knows I smoke, except for one person and that is my husband. But no one else,” says one member.

According to reports, one in two smokers hides their habit from friends, family and colleagues. And, boy, do these women go to great lengths to keep this secret from their children. “If Noah is watching television and my husband is with him, I’ll take out the garbage, then run around the house and hide in the bushes, because I don’t even want my neighbours to see that I’m a mother who smokes. I feel disgusting about it,” she admits.

But that hasn’t stopped her from smoking, even after two children, and she has no plans to quit. “Because you know people judge smokers anyways, but mothers who smoke? To non-smokers, they’d consider that worth stoning me.”

Club members end up doing a lot of unnecessary chores to get their fix. “I’ll run out to the all-night grocery store,” says one mother. “I’ll tell my husband we’re out of milk, but usually we are anyway. And this store is not close. I don’t go to the store near my house, because I worry I’ll run into people I know. I go to another grocery store that takes me about 30 minutes to get there, so I get a couple of cigarettes in before I go back home.”

But do they notice the smell? These mothers resort to more subterfuge to mask the lingering aroma of smoke. “As soon as I come back from smoking, I wash my hands, my chest, I brush my teeth, and I have clean shirts all over the house, so I can immediately change into one of them,” says one mother.

Another member’s purse could be mistaken for an Avon lady’s kit because she has so many supplies. “I keep a small tube of toothpaste and toothbrush. I have a big bottle of body lotion that smells like vanilla. I have face cream that I rub all over my face. And I have a body spray from Victoria’s Secret that I spray in my hair and all over my clothes.”

This mother also got a great tip from a makeup-artist friend who sometimes smokes. She now carries around Downy April Fresh or Bounce sheets meant for the dryer. “I rub it on my hair and it works amazingly well. Also, they are really small to carry around, which makes it easier.”

If it takes so much energy to keep smoking a secret, why not just quit? These women know the health risks and they have children they’d like to see grow up. “It’s the one last thing of my old life,” explains one. “It’s mine and it’s all mine.” Another adds, “Because I sometimes like to be bad, and as a mother you can’t be bad.”

Then there is the dark side of the addiction. “I really love smoking so much,” says one. “I sometimes find that I’m waiting for my kids to take a nap so I can go smoke. And as awful as this sounds, I’m excited my son will be going to daycare in the afternoons this fall.” Another admits that when she’s having a nicotine fit, she loses her temper with her children more often.

But even though they puff away in secret, they look down on mothers who smoke openly around their children. “When I see a mother smoking, all I can think is, ‘You disgusting wretch,’ ” says one. “When I see a mother smoking and pushing a baby in a stroller, I’m horrified. But who am I to judge? At night, I’m in the bushes putting out my cigarettes in a beer bottle.”

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  • http://www.nycclash.com Audrey Silk

    Oh good grief.  GnomeAlice you’ve been preemptively exposed.  A documentary has already been done… about YOU (your kind).  The film “Prohibition” was aired on Public Broadcasting two weeks ago.  So go peddle your complaints and accusations to filmmaker Ken Burns and author Daniel Okrent (“Last Call” on which this film was based).  Please let us know what they say when you call them “nic addicts [that] will go [to any length] to lie to themselves.” 

    • GnomeAlice

      Um and that documentary has what to do with the one I am making?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B5BNYEDMD56RXQIOINW4UB6T4 John


        Malice Honey, pay no attention. Audrey is referring to
        facts, something that you obviously don’t need.

        • GnomeAlice

          Oh ok John thanks. I am glad you clarified that for me. I am not sure what would ever make anyone think smokers are and angry mean bunch you people are all so lovely and pleasant.

  • GnomeAlice

    EVERYONE THANK YOU SO MUCH!

    Gnome Alice (which translates to No Malice)  to John,      “I thought you won? Isn’t the chess game over? ISn’t there a
    stalemate? Oh no you deemed that you won and I said that isn’t possible
    because I am many things but none of them are defeated. I am encouraged
    and I am inspired and I am vindicated by your devotion to the drug in
    fact I believe this conversation could be the best evidence that you are
    addicted to a serious drug that makes you unable to think clearly than I
    have ever seen.

    I am happy. I mentioned we are having a great time with your answers.
    Hilarious and all the research you folks have done for us we are ever in
    your debt. Fascist or not my friend you have provided so much help for
    us. All those links you have given us. It would have taken us a long
    time to do all that research. Great I can never thank you enough.
    Wonderful. In 48 hours you have saved us tons of money and so much time.
    Thank you Thank you Thank you.”

    Gnome Alice and all the folks at Global Sync

    We will continue to collect your ideas and thought as long as you continue to contribute. Cheers.

  • GnomeAlice

    Oh wait we have a really good question for you. Wait wait
    We want to know what your boundries would be. If you could chose where you could smoke where would you be allowed to smoke. I want to know this because I want something to tell kids that you might propose as a model for socially acceptable nicotine use. I hope we asked this right. Come on folks time to be proactive. What is the acceptable social model you see as working for everyone? Be honest ok? And please think about it it is important. We won’t hold you to it you can change your minds and stuff but what would a fair and just model loo like in your model? Ya I know not good at self editing but I am excited and enthusiastic right?

    • Anonymous

       Spit $10 000 and you’ll get your answer.  After all this documentary is going to make you rich and famous, isn’t it?  You should have asked me while you were still discussing with some relative civility instead of spreading your venom around.  It’s not as if I didn’t give you plenty of chances to ask the right questions, but you accused me of wanting to smoke everywhere I wanted without even asking.  Too late sorry.   Stick to your own opinions, it’s the only ones you respect anyway.   

      • GnomeAlice

        Okay, suit yourself, if you don’t feel the need to express yourself CyZane then that is fine no one is going to make you. We tried to formulate the question so that it would be easy to answer but we are thinking that none of you will answer that question. I bet 5$ that you wouldn’t but no one would take that bet. too bad for me. I could use 30$

  • Anonymous

    So where are about half a dozen of your millions of non-smoking compatriots to help you out here Alice?  Do you realize that you’re fighting here all alone?  I thought that there were millions and millions of non-smokers unhappy about smoking in the outdoors?  Couldn’t you get at least 3 or 4 to speak out?  Funny that, you who is such a super duper activist and all  ;-)   

    • GnomeAlice

      Well A: I am not fighting at all for anything and B: I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t trolling for information. How many of the other people are making a documentary?

      • Anonymous

         Oh give it up Alice.  Why don’t you just admit that you have a pathological derangement against smoke to the point that just the site of smokers makes you crazy.  You’re entitled to your opinion and even to your ailment, what you’re not entitled to is to think that a) you’re  normal b) that millions of people are like you  c) that you can get government to change policy on a capricious preference you have and especially based on lies. d) that anyone who disagrees with you is either a delusional addict or someone in the pay of Big Tobacco. 

         

        • GnomeAlice

          And who is it that decides entitlement in your world Cy?

          • GnomeAlice

            I am not entitled to think? Interesting!

          • GnomeAlice

            I guess I should apologize to you because I have been messing with you. We are trying to provoke you. We wanted to see what you would do and say. I am usually fairly nice but I had to say and do stuff to piss you off so I could extract the voice of the tobacco hmmm well enjoyer….or I don’t know smoker?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B5BNYEDMD56RXQIOINW4UB6T4 John


    “Gnome Alice (which translates to No Malice)”

    Nice little play on the phonetics. Too bad it makes no
    sense, i.e., just another aspect of your delusional state. It’s like crypto-self-deception.
    Your bigoted rants are ONLY malicious and malevolent.

    Fascist Propagandist: “Oh no you deemed that you won and I said that isn’t possible
    because I am many things but none of them are defeated.”

    Translation: I AM god. I do not rely on facts. I am not shackled by facts. I make my own “facts”, I am always “right”, because I am “free”.

    Hey Malice, you’re not free; you’re delusional (i.e., god complex). You’re a coward, terrified to address actual facts or your dark side. Yes, you are “many things” and all of them don’t sound good.

    “We want to know what your boundries would be…”

    The only goal now is to expose dimwit fascists (i.e., you and “we”) that don’t understand too much about anything and that have been assaulting society and abusing children with their particular brand of “facts” (i.e., neurosis, bigotry, obsession with control) for quite some time. Thanks for a further insight into antismoking derangement.

    There’ll come a time, Mal, when people won’t give two hoots what you and your ilk think, what you claim, what you want, or what you demand. They will have figured out that you’re in a dangerous “la la” fantasy world. May that time come quickly.

    XOXOX

    • GnomeAlice

      Perfect. John you are truly a treasure.

  • GnomeAlice

    Morning folks! Got to go. This has been cool but everyone else went home so I have to go to bed. Very exciting though. Thanks again.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B5BNYEDMD56RXQIOINW4UB6T4 John

    “I guess I should apologize to you because I have been messing with you. We are trying to provoke you. We wanted to see what you would do and say. I am usually fairly nice but I had to say and do stuff to piss you off so I could extract the voice of the tobacco hmmm well enjoyer….or I don’t know smoker?”

    Fairly nice? No you’re not. More rationalizations. Your mentality is quite pitiful, maybe even more than I thought initially.

    • GnomeAlice

      Okey dokey!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B5BNYEDMD56RXQIOINW4UB6T4 John

    ..

  • Anonymous

    Alice it’s been an enjoyable experience exposing you, but sorry you now bore me and we are boring the readership.  I used this platform to expose how the minds of people of your ilk work and post a few eye-opening links, enough to get the readership curious to look into the fraud further and take back control of their lives.  Have fun doing your pseudocumentary.  It won’t be the first nor the last of its kind produced by fanatics and you’re living proof of what I and many others are exposing here and elsewhere.  As a matter of fact, save some exceptions produced/published by people with integrity, all of anti-tobacco’s documentation for at least the last 2 decades is nothing but propaganda mostly pimped by Big Pharma. 

    As a last link, I invite the readers to read this article written by a world reknown tobacco expert that spent most of his career helping people who wanted to stop smoking.  Enjoy. 
    BELIEFS, MANIPULATION AND LIES IN THE TOBACCO ISSUE – Robert Molimard
    http://cagecanada.blogspot.com/2010/12/beliefs-manipulation-and-lies-in.html  

    And don’t forget to go through the links of this page :  http://www.fightingback.homestead.com

    • Anonymous

       One last link for people who want to examine the tobacco issue under a different dimension.  It’s a long read but how enlightening.  Authored by Vincent-Riccardo Di Pierri, PhD.  The title of the book ”Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave
      Danger: Materialism Out of Control”  It can be downloaded from the internet at :  http://www.rampant-antismoking.com/ 

      • GnomeAlice

        Interesting. You are a contradictory little sprite you are CY. You own words expose the confusion you have in your own mind about the addiction. Have a wonderful day and life and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your honest, albeit confused, position. This has been a very enriching experience The film will be released in the spring. I will try to put your screen names on the credits.

        • Anonymous

           Alice dear, I can’t go without setting you straight.  You are the one who is totally confused.  You went on harping in this forum about you having to walk through thousands of times diluted smoke in the outdoors, that there is no benefits to smoking, that anyone who says anything good about smoking or questions the present anti-smoking crusade is a delusional addict, that moms should not be smoking in the presence of their children.  You asked all the wrong questions and predetermined the answers .  Not once did you  take the time to listen and try to remotely comprehend anything we’re saying. 

          Alice, as John pointed out to you, you are confusing active smoking  with second hand smoke and this is where you’re totally off the mark.  And as long as you keep confusing the two you will always sound like a misled fanatic.  You see, even you agree with what I said above.  Now if you can agree with my opinion including that 5 or 10 cigarettes can be beneficial to some people that are disciplined enough to maintain their consumption at that level, how can you go through life being afraid and scaring the daylights out of your grandchildren about whiffs of smoke in the outdoors?  Time to dissect your own brain and beliefs Alice. 

          • GnomeAlice

            Straight is that a homo phobic reference Cy??? Nah just messin cha! You can “set me straight” all you like, I know what I know and I have been around for a while so I am not really asking for parenting advice or morality classes or even trading mean or sarcastic comments I Am here for exactly what I said I am I have found a treasure trove of typical nicotine user ideas which I needed to round out our research on the BEHAVIOR and socially belligerent arrogance and escalated family violence of nic addicts when challenged or separated from their drug for more than a few moments or even suggesting to get in the way of their addiction.. We will use this information to extrapolate a subtext that is directly against the tobacco industry and the lobbyists for teaching people these lies or what you call your truth. No worries it will all be good in the end. As Cy so beautifully and contradictorily put it I just want children to know it is a dangerous drug and they should avoid it.

            I want to show the personal distress caused to children by these people if they are even thinking about not being able to “enjoy” their drug freely and I really wanted someone to answer the question of what it would look like what model would you folks accept or would we go back to smoking in Doctors offices?

          • GnomeAlice

            And oddly even though you may believe I am going to make a documentary against your drug of choice you keep giving me more ammunition! I think it is one of you who keeps asking me to give some scientific proof and yet I have told that person over and over that it isn’t going to happen but that person keeps asking for the same information. See can’t think straight!

          • GnomeAlice

            Miss the points all you like I am talking about second hand toxic fumes everywhere on the streets and I am talking about the rage you folks exhibit that I do not see in the non smoking public and the inverted un apologetically unhealthy way you treat your world and your community that no one who wasn’t totally addicted to a drug that changes your thinking would ever want to smoke!

            As an ex smoker who knows many ex smokers and those who are trying to become ex smokers I know what I know and you folks are wrong about my experience and I am not anyone but a person just like you and I am underwhelmed by the behavior of smokers that is my truth it doesn’t make me any of the things you all have called me other than a concerned Mom and Grandmother and no amount of insulting me or talking down to me or pro smoking misinformation is going to change that because I once was you and now I have experienced the truth for myself and I am free.

            And really …..I am sorry for all of you. It is very sad and it is too bad that people with so much intelligence and passion aren’t defending something valuable and important. My opinion means nothing to you and I am pretty sure mine means something to you or I would be all alone here talking to myself.

      • GnomeAlice

        “dimension” rather than “perspective” is a perfect word in that sentence. We do believe you are in a different dimension and I think we have said that! LMAO!
        |
        Cy! I wish you could hear the giggling!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B5BNYEDMD56RXQIOINW4UB6T4 John


    Malice, you’re a rabid antismoking fanatic, familiar with
    all the propaganda slogans. You might even be a Pharma pimp. When it became
    obvious you didn’t have a leg to stand on, your comments replete with lies and
    slander galore, you pulled the “I’m only doing research” stunt. Pathetic!

    It’s either that or it’s this:

    Malice…… MY DOCUMENTARY [A day in my life - a shallow,
    neurotic, bigoted fanatic avec cruel streak]

    Morning: I pulled the wings out of some butterflies just to
    see what would happen, and it was safe for me. That was a good warm up.

    Mid-morning: Let’s see what happens. Got on to a veterans’
    site and accused them of being war-mongers and that they deserved everything
    they got. That was hilarious.

    Mid-afternoon: Let’s see what happens. Got onto an elderly
    citizens website. Accused them of being a drain on taxpayer funds. What a hoot!

    Evening: Let’s see what happens. Got onto a comments board
    with some crack head nic addicts. Accused them of all sorts of things. Never had so much
    fun.

    Let’s do some more!
    ——-

    Well, Malice, which is it?

    • GnomeAlice

      Never change. John stay just the sweet tempered lovely folk you are will ya?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B5BNYEDMD56RXQIOINW4UB6T4 John

        You sweet, haughty, pompous, incompetent, neurotic bigot, you! :)

        XOXOX

  • F1reb1rd57

    So I don’t get to read 12 paragraphs of scolding about how I am akin to a crack addict? Maybe I shouldn’t have told you I am a non-smoker! I feel left out.

    Looks like you made about 50 posts without citing one of those “study” things I asked for, by the way.

    • GnomeAlice

      Looks like you don’t read everything. I answered this. As I have said there is no need for a study this documentary is about my personal experience in my community with the addiction and I don’t believe for a second that just because a person is “not smoking” because you “can’t afford it” at the moment qualifies them as a non addict.

      • F1reb1rd57

        Not a former smoker either. And still waiting anxiously for an actual scientific basis to ANYTHING you’ve said.

        • GnomeAlice

          Hmmm are you “still waiting for that” even though I have said very clearly that I am not concerned with the massive amounts of that that you can research yourself if you need to know it……. I am concerned with the real life suffering I see every day that is happening right here in my own community. If I was making a documentary about the kind of fashion the girls in my community were drawn to I am not sure I would go out and ask a bunch of slobs I don’t know about their opinion. I have also told you this several times.

          • GnomeAlice

            It is not a scientific documentary it is a personal documentary have you ever heard of that?

  • GnomeAlice

    From Cy to Gnome:

    “No that’s not what I am saying Alice.  Open your
    mind a little.  You are confusing so many issues.  I am saying that
    terrorizing the kids about smoking is not bringing about conclusive
    results.  Kids will smoke if they want to and especially when the propaganda
    becomes so exaggerated it is no longer believable.  Stick to the truth,
    tell them that smoking is not a healthy
    habit.  But especially that abusive
    smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their
    consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits,
    but it’s very difficult for many people
    to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is
    pleasurable so they are better off not
    starting.  Get off the ”no safe level” propaganda.  It doesn’t
    correspond to their eye-witness experiences.  It doesn’t match real
    life.  They’re not idiots.  Tell them that it’s better that they didn’t smoke but that if they had to you
    would prefer that they do it once
    they’re old enough to weigh in ALL the facts.  The present
    anti-smoking propaganda is making smoking more attractive to them when they get
    to a certain age because they crave for
    the forbidden fruit.  Get off the high morality horse and treat
    smoking for what it is, a habit that can
    be risky for anyone who goes overboard.  Smoking prevalence is stalling in Canada and I’m not a bit
    surprised.  The lies are too transparent, people have stopped believing
    even what is true.”

    Now, come on folks,  you have to love this. Here you are stating
    exactly our premise and yet is would seem you completely disagree with this
    analysis in you previous discourse. Mostly I would like to know what John or
    any of the other Pro Nicotine folks think of the above statement. It seems to
    contradict the research you provided us with.

    • Anonymous

       I will repeat here part of what I said in another post because it is more relevant to this post: 

      Alice, as John pointed out to you, you are confusing active smoking 
      with second hand smoke and this is where you’re totally off the mark. 
      And as long as you keep confusing the two you will always sound like a
      misled fanatic.  You see, even you agree with what I said above.  Now if
      you can agree with my opinion including that 5 or 10 cigarettes can be
      beneficial to some people that are disciplined enough to maintain their
      consumption at that level, how can you go through life being afraid and
      scaring the daylights out of your grandchildren about whiffs of smoke in
      the outdoors?  Time to dissect your own brain and beliefs Alice. 

      • GnomeAlice

        Never will answer even a simple direct question even about your own writing. Hilarious! I will stop calling you delusional because I can see that your delusion is so tied to your addiction that just like all other addicts and delusional people you can’t possibly see it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B5BNYEDMD56RXQIOINW4UB6T4 John

    ..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B5BNYEDMD56RXQIOINW4UB6T4 John

    Malice,
    Inane-question time is over.
    Your credibility “ledger” is way in the red.

    [Arm stretched forward and slightly to the side, hand pitched upward]
    Malice, speak to the HAND!!

    [P.S. You should be ashamed - seriously.
    "Role model", my "horselike animal with long ears"]

    • GnomeAlice

      See John run
      See John not answer any question he doesn’t like.
      See john expose himself as the infantile addict he is
      See John rage and defend a death machine

  • Junican

    Can someone else get a word in here? Let me say right away that I have no connection whatsoever with the tobacco industry or any similar organisation. Right?
    I have read as many of the posts here as I can see. I have seen Alice repeating again and again and again “ADDICTION!!!!”
    The Enjoyment of Tobacco is NOT an addiction. There is a definition of ’addiction’ which requires actual physical changes to occur in the addict’s body when he is deprived of whatever substance he is addicted to. Heroin, for example. When a heroin addict is deprived, he starts to sweat profusely, he shivers, his blood constituents change. He suffers ‘shock’ and can literally die. No such phenomena have been observed in tobacco deprivation. 

    When I retire to bed, I do not wake in the night desperate for a fag. When I get up, the first thing that I do is make a cup of tea. Only when I have made my tea and washed and dressed do I light a cigarette. When the wife and I go on holiday, we have a six hour period from entering the airport to arriving at our destination when we cannot smoke. The period without cigarettes does not bother me. The thought pops into my head from time to time but I pop it out again. The first thing we do when we arrive at our hotel is go to the bar, I order a pint and half of lager, and only when I am comfortably seated do I light a cigarette,  The tobacco is most enjoyable.

    No, the Enjoyment of Tobacco IS A HABIT. If I am addicted to tobacco, then I am even more addicted to tea.

    I am proud to be a smoker – that is because I am clearly intellectually superior to the zealots.  

    • GnomeAlice

      Yup and if you weren’t an addict you could see that you are deluded.

      • F1reb1rd57

        If gnome could see through his fetish-induced infatuation for medical authority figures, he would see that his stance is simply a self imposed wall to try to trick himself into believing that one of the healthiest human practices is bad for him. Of course he wants to make a documentary about it, to shift focus off of his own “ideas” and to solidify his own maniacal, incoherent and ’round the bend views on such a benign substance (almost all the looneys do this, in a lot of fields). I will feel warm inside when you have to walk through a cloud of *life giving* second hand smoke. And like it or not, you will be better off for it.

        Yours truly,
        A non-smoker

        • GnomeAlice

          Sorry I am a bit lost as to whom you are talking to CyZane is a woman and so am I. And I think CyZane is as sincere as you are I think people just don’t realize that we (many of the people I know and love and many other non smokers and recovering addicts) do not want it back to the 50s in the 50s one could smoke in the hospital! Deny it all anyone likes it is painful and an irritant to the eyes and nose of the non smokers. That is not a lie and you all know it. But that is your answer so I respect it I won’t argue because I just wanted you to answer it. Thank you. So I guess I would want to know why oyu think so many others should have to share your addiction when you would not expect us to tolerate drunks in our offices and they aren’t even effecting us physically?

    • GnomeAlice

      SO odd that because you are one of the rare people who you claim isn’t erratic and angry then no one is? I actually know a couple of nic addicts who can do that but not any of the ones who have extraordinary pressure on them every day The women who can’t get up and make a leisure tea and relax and go on vacation The ones who are dealing with babies and crisis everyday. And I don’t get it with you folks just having a differing idea makes me a fascist and a brute? How is that How is it that you feel so threatened? How is it that you behave in such a reactive way? Why can’t any of you carry on a dialogue that includes both opinions? How is it that you think you win because you name call and put down and demand you fine so everyone is and my own personal experience is what nul and void because you say so? Funny ideas in a democracy. How is an advocate for non smoking such an enemy and a conspirator against you all and a Nazi and in cahoots with goodness knows what big corporation or just an ignorant know nothing You are silly. You can not answer a direct question that would make you agree yet CyZane did Cy zane readily admits it is addictive and it is not good for kinds and we should try to get kids not to smoke CyZane just wants us not to tell them their parents are going ot die which in my personal experience I have no idea why anyone would tell their kids that unless their parents are going to die. You there is it that you are saying it is not addictive? Or it does not cause anyone to have stress under any circumstances? Or that it should be allowed everywhere? What is your point other than that you believe you are not offensive when you smoke?Are you saying it is completely fine and we should go back to smoking in hospitals because you believe it isn’t bothering anyone else that you smoke on your vacation? Should we be allowed to smoke in an enclosed space with children? Is it an innocent fragrance which everyone would accept if the big non smoking lobbies weren’t out there pushing everyone around? What it is you think the rest of us should tolerate? Come one I keep asking but none of you will answer that and I have money riding on your answer. Come on pal take a real stand. Or you can just call me names no matter.

      • GnomeAlice

        Here is CyZanes opinion Do you agree or disagree?

        “No that’s not what I am saying Alice.  Open your
        mind a little.  You are confusing so many issues.  I am saying that
        terrorizing the kids about smoking is not bringing about conclusive
        results.  Kids will smoke if they want to and especially when the propaganda
        becomes so exaggerated it is no longer believable.  Stick to the truth,
        tell them that smoking is not a healthy
        habit.  But especially that abusive
        smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their
        consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits,
        but it’s very difficult for many people
        to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is
        pleasurable so they are better off not
        starting.  Get off the ”no safe level” propaganda.  It doesn’t
        correspond to their eye-witness experiences.  It doesn’t match real
        life.  They’re not idiots.  Tell them that it’s better that they didn’t smoke but that if they had to you
        would prefer that they do it once
        they’re old enough to weigh in ALL the facts.  The present
        anti-smoking propaganda is making smoking more attractive to them when they get
        to a certain age because they crave for
        the forbidden fruit.  Get off the high morality horse and treat
        smoking for what it is, a habit that can
        be risky for anyone who goes overboard.  Smoking prevalence is stalling in Canada and I’m not a bit
        surprised.  The lies are too transparent, people have stopped believing
        even what is true.”

        • GnomeAlice

          I have to say Cy you have drawn a very fine line here. According to this everything I have said is true I just should not take it too seriously. And for your info I never said no safe level you must be thinking about someone else.
          This is the exact thing CYZane the tobacco advocate said in her lesson on how to teach my grandchildren about nicotine addiction.

          “Stick to the truth, tell them that smoking is not a healthy
          habit.  But especially that abusive
          smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their
          consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits,
          but it’s very difficult for many people
          to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is
          pleasurable so they are better off not
          starting.”

          So do you all agree with this assessment or not?

      • F1reb1rd57

        Smoking regulations should be rolled back to 1950 era. With the exception of businesses that don’t want to. nothing mandatory. Lung cancer occurrence now is 4X higher per capita than in 1950, despite everybody smoking everywhere, all the time. I think a mixture is in order, and that would be what would happen no doubt. some places would allow it, other would not. caters to everybody.

        • GnomeAlice

          Thank you for answering that. We really appreciate your clear and honest answer.

  • GnomeAlice

    Repeated here because I want to start a new feed.

    I have to say Cy you have drawn a very fine line here. According to this
    everything I have said is true I just should not take it too seriously.
    And for your info I never said no safe level you must be thinking about
    someone else.
    This is the exact thing CYZane the tobacco advocate
    said in her lesson on how to teach my grandchildren about nicotine
    addiction.

    “Stick to the truth, tell them that smoking is not a healthy
    habit.  But especially that abusive
    smoking is the worst.  Tell them if a smoker can maintain their
    consumption to about 5 – 10  cigarettes per day it can even have benefits,
    but it’s very difficult for many people
    to maintain it at that level because whether you like it or not it is
    pleasurable so they are better off not
    starting.”

    So do you all agree with this assessment or not?

    • Anonymous

       Alice, may I remind you that I have revealed my true identity.  Anything you say about me you have to prove it or it can and will be held against you.  Noone is anonymous on the internet and don’t even think for a moment that I can’t find out who you are.  Others have tried it and ended up in court for libel.   Now retract the ”tobacco advocate” part immediately.  As for the rest, I am done with you, speak to John’s hand. 

      And even if you weazle out of your inuendo, defending yourself that you don’t nessarily mean a ”tobacco industry advocate”, it is still false.  I am not advocating for or against tobacco.  I am advocating for revealing the lies and shenanigans surrounding the tobacco issue and especially the second hand smoke fraud.  Full period. 

      • GnomeAlice

        You have revealed your true identity? Where was I? Nope and I would happily tell you who I am and you could try to sue me. LOL Really because as I go back over the links and such you seem to be an advocate and yet you seem to have a soft spot in your tiny smoke filled heart for children.

        In fact somewhere here there is a link to one of my youtube pages I am not hiding from anything and certainly not from you.

        • Anonymous

           I am an advocate and I revealed exactly who I was and a link to the organization I represent.  Now get your cognitive functions in tune, go back a few threads and you might find it.  You might even find a few questions you conveniently avoided answering.  After you have perused the websites of my organization and you have navigated the internet to learn more about me and what I do, prove that I am either a tobacco industry advocate or even a tobacco advocate or retract your inuendo.  Like I said others have unsuccessfuly tried it, one organization had the quasi-decency to retract but not to apologize. http://cagecanada.blogspot.com/2009/02/right-thing-to-do-nsra-style.html  One ended up in court and finally decided to settle out of court admitting his wrongful ways. 

          • GnomeAlice

            Um I am pretty sure I could call you a delusional nicotine addict and suffer zero consequences for my opinion but if you need to sue me I would love that. My lawyers are free and we would love to film that negotiation too. What do you think. You in an office with annoying me and a bunch of annoying lawyers and no nicotine and knowing that I have free representation and that even if you won you can’t get anything from me. That would be a laugh riot! Let’s go!

          • GnomeAlice

            Not unlike the families who have lost their loved one to a drunk driver they don’t care is drunk think they can drive perfectly well when they have been drinking. They can’t and you can not tell me what my own experience is and call me all the names you want I am a Grandmother and I have rights too. I am doing my job trying to protect my grandchildren and your opinion about that means zero to me It is just mean spirited and dysfunctional. I am going to make a documentary and the stuff you have said here will play a big part because I am shocked and the stuff you will say and do to protect yourself from the truth. The truth is I do not care if you are addicted I want you to stop being in my air space and I don’t care if you think you don’t stink or it doesn’t effect anyone negatively or that you think we are all brainwashed because you can’t possibly see how much bull all of that is. Why do you treat our world like your own personal ashtray? I am sure one of you doesn’t so that guy will now jump up and say he doesn’t so that makes it not true? In the end you are all so wrong it is sad but anyway I am taking some comfort in the fact that you can’t smoke outdoors in New York City I am sure that will help the rest of our cities ban your addiction and banish it to where it should be in the alleys hiding amongst the other crack heads.

            You folks have radicalized me I was just going to make a simple little video about kids but now I see it needs to be about you and you arrogance. Once again I have to give you my deepest thanks.

  • GnomeAlice

    Heres what I think CyZane I would be thrilled if you sued me Come at it. And I will not do anything like retract anything That is silly. You folks have made so many outrageous insults and misstatements about me that I thought reasonably it was a free for all and that is certainly the way any judge would see it if you ever got anywhere with that. Hilarious! You never cease to cheer me up my dear. I thought you were splitting? Well I will miss you but I see no point in oyu sticking around You have said all you want to and you are bored and hilarious…did I mention hilarious!? Belly laughing all of us. You have neglected to answer the questions I asked but it has made no difference because we really got what we wanted from you anyway. I have thanked you and I will be sure to credit you in the film now that you have given me your identity. Lovely!

  • GnomeAlice

    We have been looking for what you called introducing yourself and any place that you did not advocate for tobacco and we can’t find anything.

  • GnomeAlice

    We are thinking that this convo is just about done so we once again would like to thank everyone and we wish you all the best. I will try to figure out how to let you know when it is released so you can all rip it to pieces. They only bad press is no press as they say. Cheers.

  • Junican

    Alice,
    You really must see a ‘MENTAL HEALTH SPECIALIST’. You are suffering – I do not know what exactly you are suffering from, but you are suffering. Only a person who is suffering could possibly believe that the atmosphere is normally ‘clean’. It is not. It is filthy! There are MOLD SPORES (fungi) inundating the atmosphere – billions of them. There is POLLEN in unimaginable quantities. There is DUST. There are FUMES – all in vast quantities. By comparison, tobacco smoke is minuscule. But you believe every word that Tobacco Control Zealots tell you.

    And what is it that worries you? Merely the fact that you can actually RECOGNISE what you believe to be tobacco smoke, whether it is or not. To you, every pong that you experience is tobacco smoke.

    Because you do not like the pong which you think is tobacco smoke, you want the atmosphere, everywhere in the world, to be only contaminated by MOLD SPORES, and POLLEN, and DUST and FUMES, but not what YOU think is tobacco smoke. You want this JUST IN CASE you, personally, happen to turn up one day in Timbuktu.

    How did you come to be so unhinged?   

    • GnomeAlice

      Thank you so much for your contribution Alice is away from her desk at the moment but she will be back in the morning.

  • Kevin Mulvina

    Anti smoker reverend and sooth Sayer, Simon Chapman in a published study at the British Medical Journal, [http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/17/2/73.full] reveals [bragging rights] the multitude of ways that smokers are being slandered in the promotion of smoking cessation products, that at the end of the day reduce significantly someone’s chances of quitting, if that is what they truly wish, or to force others by coercive means, to use them, regardless of their wishes. Both will fail to quit, in more than 96% of the cases that these so called medical treatments are prescribed. Only the reach of corruption, that invented the indefensibly exaggerated and irresponsible fears of second hand tobacco smoke, from within the medical communities, could we promote a snake oil product, to being named a ” medical treatment” with such an abysmal production of failure, compared to using nothing at all.

    RIP cigarettes by mandatory laws which were imposed upon smokers without harm assessments, discussions or debate emphasize the new reality of “no safe level of tobacco smoke” edicts, that only products which will increase health risks to millions of consumers, will be allowed to pass into law without opposition. Whereas all products which seek to decrease health risks, by physical, common sense and scientific means, such as flu cured tobacco, electronic cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products will face significant opposition from the medical community, [except those special products, deemed "medical treatments" by financial conflicts of interest] with the mandate of proof at the top of the list of detractors. Is Public health dedicated to maintaining the mortality and morbidity numbers as their ultimate influence over elected officials, in a similar multitude of ways that smokers have been promoted by bigoted stereotype, for their use of a legal product? By back to front advertising schema and half truths by nondisclosure, we are eliminating the law which is clear, that decisions affecting personal health, are the sole domain of the individual and not within the realm of a busy body paternalist political regime.

    No one, because they don’t smoke is forced to be included in a bigoted group, which demands bullying and hateful anti-smoker attitudes. In spite of what the Public health lobby has pronounced to be normal in their “health reform” perspectives.

    • GnomeAlice

      I guess this continue to need to be clarified I am not part of any group and in fact I have never even research either side of the issue. You folks are the first people I have ever tried to talk to about it so your are blowing smoke there. I have always been a community activist and have been a non smoker for some time now. I am talking directly about what I personally experience in my own life. All the rest of the stuff you folks have brought has nothing to do with me I am not part of a movement. I am trying to protect the rights of myself and my own family because of our own personal experience with the drug nicotine and smoking And you can bluster on all day it isn’t going to change that. I was given more information here about not smoking in fact than I have ever seen and about smoking but it does not change the fact that I am making a documentary about myself and my grandchildren and our experience.

      • GnomeAlice

        oops this is posted twice because i meant to post it here.

        Not unlike the families who have lost their loved one to a drunk driver
        they don’t care is drunk think they can drive perfectly well when they
        have been drinking. They can’t and you can not tell me what my own
        experience is and call me all the names you want I am a Grandmother and I
        have rights too. I am doing my job trying to protect my grandchildren
        and your opinion about that means zero to me It is just mean spirited
        and dysfunctional. I am going to make a documentary and the stuff you
        have said here will play a big part because I am shocked and the stuff
        you will say and do to protect yourself from the truth. The truth is I
        do not care if you are addicted I want you to stop being in my air space
        and I don’t care if you think you don’t stink or it doesn’t effect
        anyone negatively or that you think we are all brainwashed because you
        can’t possibly see how much bull all of that is. Why do you treat our
        world like your own personal ashtray? I am sure one of you doesn’t so
        that guy will now jump up and say he doesn’t so that makes it not true?
        In the end you are all so wrong it is sad but anyway I am taking some
        comfort in the fact that you can’t smoke outdoors in New York City I am
        sure that will help the rest of our cities ban your addiction and banish
        it to where it should be in the alleys hiding amongst the other crack
        heads.

        You folks have radicalized me I was just going to make a
        simple little video about kids but now I see it needs to be about you
        and you arrogance. Once again I have to give you my deepest thanks.

        • Junican

          Yeah, Alice. We already seen that.

      • Junican

        Alice, dear!
        There you go again! You say nicotine is a drug. Please tell me what is not. We used to have a reasonable idea of what we mean by the word ‘drug’, depending upon the circumstances of the use of the word. For example, ‘drugs companies’ manufactured ‘good’ drugs, while ‘druggies’ took ‘bad’ drugs. ‘Good’ drugs were asprin etc, ‘bad’ drugs were heroin etc. But you are now trying to convert ordinary substances into ‘drugs’ – like sugar, tea, coffee, water, nicotine, air, beer, fat, cola and so forth.

        You have NOT been giving a history of your life at all. You have been spewing out propaganda and lies, just like the quack professors, quack doctors and quack politicians. QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!

         

  • GnomeAlice

    We thought of one more question. And this one is from one of the kids. How does any of you explain or justify or rationalize, sorry we are trying to figure out what the kid said….how do any of you think of the cigarette smokers who “use the street for an ashtray.”? This is important to all of us because we have listened to all of the arguments which we are assessing yet we can’t believe that it is ok with any of you that so many of you toss their butts everywhere. It is also a very reasonable question.

    • Junican

      It is ALMOST a reasonable question! It is not QUITE reasonable because GRAVITY pulls stuff to the ground. That includes everything heavier than air. It includes RADIOACTIVE PARTICLES, FUNGI SPORES, POLLEN, DUST, FILTHY RAIN, LEAVES, CRISP PACKETS, BURNED OUT CARS, AIRCRAFT WRECKAGE, CHIPS, POLITICIANS’ WORDS, YOU, AND SO ON.

      Why do cigarette ends appear MORE OFTEN on the ground? Because people have been FORCED to smoke on the streets BY THE GOVERNMENT. 

      There is also another matter. Filter tips used to be made of paper. The Government FORCED tobacco manufacturers to use cellulose because it absorbs more tar. Cellulose does not rot as quickly as paper, therefore THE GOVERNMENT have caused the problem.

      But IS there a problem? What is the problem? Filter tips are not poisonous or anything. What is the problem? Just sweep them up like tree leaves! They are harmless. 

      • GnomeAlice

        UNBELIEVABLE! I am so happy you are saying these things. Such blatantly blind circular logic. Again I have to thank you all for you candid responses. Awesome Every time we ask you a question your answers are so un thought out and unreal and narrow. Hilarious! and very sad. You really believe what you just said and I know you do to and if I disagreed with you will become more and more CERTAIN that you are right. Awesome! Such amazing responses I never really expected that we would get so much great writing from smokers and such amazing research! Couldn’t pay to get this stuff! Thank you so much.

  • Junican

    Alice,
    What questions did you ask the ‘kids’ in order to bring their attention to something that no ‘kid’ would ever notice? – Filter tips in the street.
    No ‘kid’ that I have ever known ever notices such things – it is not in their nature, They notice only those things which are interesting to them – such as bikes, ice-cream vans, mice, dogs, cats, friends, mothers, dads, policemen, balls, bats, trees to climb, and so on. When did your ‘kids’ become weird?

    • GnomeAlice

      You may tell yourself anything you like but you can’t make what you demand to be true true by demanding it. What about adults who notice it are they allowed to say they don’t like it?

    • GnomeAlice

      Well you won’t believe it so not much point in telling but I asked her what the most difficult problems she has going to and from school and other places? She could have said the smoke or cars or an number of things but she heard David Suzuki say that the birds feather their nest with the filters and the chemicals soften the egg shells and the birds can’t survive. And her friend said that they had a report on the oceans and lakes that they were studying in geography and they had to make a pollution drama and she had made on showing that the oceans are over burdened but filters and the toxins that come with them, You asked. Don’t brother blustering about it because everyone here already know what you are going to say so yawn keep it please. No one here expects you to care one way or the other and insulting us is irrelevant. It just shows that nicotine addicts can’t handle and descent.

  • GnomeAlice

    You folks are so addicted it is taking away your ability to think, I have all we need and of course we don’t agree but that’s ok You are only four or five addicts The many that I know are suffering their lung hurt and they don’t feel good and they complain about how they feel all the time and they aren’t lying or making it up. They want to stop being a slave to any chemical. You are happy with your choices great for you however ridiclous you are to me you are incapable of seeing or hearing the reality which is very obvious You move from one subject to another and you are saying insanely wrong things.

    You sound EXACTLY like all other addicts. I do not take advice from addicts nor am i concerned about what they think of me. I a grand mom and caring community member have been treated badly and told lies to justify your addiction and your abuse and your environmental irresponsibility and I have said before and I will say it again You have made our job much easier and we appreciate it but I have been both a smoker and a non smoker and I know that until I was free I would fight tooth and nail and lie to myself that it was ok and no I don’t Get treatment!

    Try it on the other side for a while and see how it goes. Maybe your brains will function better. It is fear and chemicals that are making you a very bad citizen. That last thing about the butts is just about the most ignorant thing I have ever heard and I don’t see this conversation going anywhere but into the toilet with your judgement and mental ability. I hope you fools do not live near me.

    • PT Barnum

      Dear Laughing Gnome

      More smokers than those commenting have watched this extraordinary ‘conversation’ unfold (and admiring our colleagues’ tremendous doggedness and wit). All the energy and effort you have expended on trying to save us from ourselves might have been more usefully deployed on the streets of your ‘community’ where you could be actively trying to bring enlightenment to all the smokers blighting your immediate environment. After all, they’ll be stuffed full of nicotine as long as they’re smoking, so they’ll not be inclined towards rage or violence. You could take your grandkids along to show the evil addicts what innocent young bodies they are intent on corrupting. You wouldn’t just want to be considered an armchair activist, would you? And keeping your special insights to yourself is just selfish.

      See you on a street corner soon, I hope.

      • GnomeAlice

        I have spent zero time trying to save you at all I was trying and accomplished research into the responses I would get from a conversation about the issues for a documentary I am making about the people around me who are struggling with the issues especially children.

        I appreciate each and every comment you have made and as I have mentioned we will continue to collect these poignant and thoughtful remarks you have been contributing.

        As to my selfishness I am not sure we have met. I do know what the people around me thing of me and I will probably stay with that because they actually know me.

        As I have said every day, thank you all so much for your contribution to our research. We are assessing all of the links and information you have so freely and generously provided for us and the considered and reasonable arguments you have taken the time and trouble to contribute.

        There is a story about PT Barnum I would love to share with you if you have the time.

        When PT first brought his “emerging circus” to the US he was I believe in New York with many wondrous things to see. He had set up in a really large space but the show was so popular it became very crowded and the people did not move through the Emporium very quickly so they became too close together and some couldn’t get in. PT Decided to put up a sign at the back doors that said “This Way to the Egress” As very few people knew that the word means exit they all ran to the doors and went out.

        I told this story because you mentioned selfishness. And I have mentioned ignorance.

        • GnomeAlice

          Meaning that just because one person knows something the rest of the people don’t does not make them selfish or wrong.

          • GnomeAlice

            I do think it is interesting that you have advised me to do what it is I am already doing. I hope CyZane and John don’t catch you at the because I don’t think that is what they would say was what I should do!

  • Junican

    It is such a pity to hear of children being propagandised – such a pity. Of course, once they get into their teens and realise that they have been lied to all these years, they will kick over the traces and rebel. They will become smokers and drinkers. Isn’t human nature awful?
    But are you sure that they are being told that the oceans are awash with filter tips? I mean…really? The thing is that the oceans are so vast that, in volume terms, all the filter tips ever made would not be noticeable in the oceans. In any case, microbes in the oceans feed off such stuff as cellulose and the tar within filter tips. (The tar is just another form of oil – you know, the stuff that the Florida oil spill pumped into the sea and which was cleared away in no time by microbes) If I was you, I would ensure that you rid their minds of this nonsense.
    As regards your ‘research’, I have  never heard of ‘research by diatribe’ before. How does it work? Do you just yell out insults, nonsense and falsities and see what reaction you get? Well…I suppose that’s one way to do research.
    And there you go again – bawling out ADDICTION! ADDICTION! ADDICTION! DRUGS! DRUGS!DRUGS!  I didn’t think that I was actually addicted to tea, but I suppose that I must be. Do you know that properly ‘cured’ tobacco smells just like tea bags? Actually, tobacco leaves and tea leaves are almost exactly the same thing! So I would not let your grandchildren drink tea - think of all the harmful chemicals, thousands of them. Oh, the same goes for coffee. Addicted to tea and coffee and destined for a premature horribly painful death.
    Alice, you keep saying that you are going away, but you don’t. Why is that?   

    • Junican

      Could it be that you are addicted to the sound of your own voice?

      • GnomeAlice

        Could it be that I am not you? We have different ideas and goals and concerns in the world?

    • GnomeAlice

      How is it that you all seem to think that just because there are other issues in the world that I should not have this one as my concern. So strange that no matter what I say or how I say it you all seem so threatened by even the tiniest light of any kind being shed upon your habit of smoking tobacco? Did you notice that you can’t hear anything without either misdirecting the thoughts away from nicotine or attacking the messenger? Were you under the impression that I was asking your opinion about what work I may do or what ideas I might hold or what I may say?

      None of you has single thing to say that has dissuaded me in even the slightest and I would think that would be obvious. I think that if we were talking about land use or what to have for supper you would be able to have an adult reasonable conversation but because we are talking about something you are addicted to and that most of you know you are wrong about that you are aggressive and unreasonable but then that is just my opinion which in Canada so far I am entitled to.

      Me thinks thou doth protest too much! May hap you need to be more honest than aggresive.

From Macleans