Rank your income: Where do you stand compared to the rest of Canada?

by Erica Alini on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 12:59pm - 52 Comments

The Occupy Wall Street movement and its various Canadian spinoffs are reviving the public debate about income distribution north of the border. On Friday, NDP leadership hopeful Brian Topp cast his lot with the “eat the rich” zeitgeist by advocating income tax hikes on the wealthy. Others are skeptical that heating up the fiscal pressure on the top earners is the most effective way to tackle yawning inequality.

Regardless of what constitutes the best policy cure, Occupy movements across the globe–and they’ve spread throughout the developed world–have put their finger on a real and widespread malaise of advanced economies. Between the mid-1980s and the mid-2000s inequality rose in most of the rich countries that make up the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, and in Canada income disparities have surpassed the OECD average. Granted, our super-rich are not quite as “super” as America’s wealthiest. In 2007, the threshold to qualify as one of Canada’s top one per cent of earners was a relatively modest $169,000 a year, compared to the U.S.’s eye-popping $400,000. Still, between 1980 and 2005 the earnings of Canada’s bottom income group fell by 20.6 per cent, according to Statistics Canada, whereas top incomes rose by 16.4 per cent. Folks in between generally saw their salaries stagnate like their peers in the U.S., where increased worker productivity has not translated into comparable income gains for the middle class.

Whether it’s a matter of taxing the top, or propping up the bottom and the middle, income distribution is likely to become a hot-button issue. Check out our calculator above to find out where you rank!

*Calculations are based on data from the Canada Revenue Agency’s Interim Income Statistics report, 2011 Edition (2009 tax year), Table 2 (All returns by total income class). Note that percentiles refer to income brackets, so an income of $29,999 falls into the bottom 51.9 per cent of Canadian tax-filers, whereas an income of $30,000 belongs to the top 48.1 per cent. Also, incomes below $1 and above $249,999 are not pictured proportionally. We’d like to also thank the Conference Board of Canada and Armine Yalnizyan of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives for their assistance with research for the calculator.

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  • http://twitter.com/stephenfgordon Stephen Gordon

    Something wonky is going on at the bottom. At $0, you get

    “Ouch! You’re among the 1.1% of Canadians who reported no income or a net loss on their 2009 tax return.”

    But at $0.01, you get

    “Your income is in the bottom 18%.”

    Is 16.9% earning between 0 and one penny?

    • Anonymous

      Seems to be based on ranges – 0-9999 is bottom 18%, but at 10000 you jump to bottom 28%

      Similar wonkiness happens at the top – for instance if you pu in that you earn $250k you get top 0.71% – and if you put in $1.34 trillion, you still get top 0.71%

      • Guest

        a b c

      • Anonymous

        I’m no NDP supporter or anything, but it is godless lawyers making $1.34 trillion a year that is ruining our country.

      • Anonymous

        I’m no NDP supporter or anything, but it is godless lawyers making $1.34 trillion a year that is ruining our country.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t know, this seems obvious to me.  Both statements are true, but your conclusion is not.

      The bottom 18% does not go from 0 to 1 penny, it does from 0 to some larger number, with 1 penny falling within that range.

      You seem to wish to equate (for unknown reasons)
      a) fallling within a range with
      b) being at the edge of a range

      I suppose the tool would be more useful if the ranges were a little smaller. But it would be literally idiotic to create this tool with each additional penny falling within a new range.

      • Matthew Spencer

        Presumably, one could fit a continuous distribution to the data which would mean that one could estimate at every penny or even every 100th of a cent.  Of course, there wouldn’t be much difference between two consecutive cents due to the the round-off.

        • Anonymous

          Yes, one could fit a continuous distribution.  But why would one do that?

      • Matthew Spencer

        Presumably, one could fit a continuous distribution to the data which would mean that one could estimate at every penny or even every 100th of a cent.  Of course, there wouldn’t be much difference between two consecutive cents due to the the round-off.

    • RealityBetraysUs

      Don’t confuse us with the facts! You know governments prefer classic mushroom theory- they grow mushrooms by keeping them in the dark and feeding them bullshit!

    • RealityBetraysUs

      Don’t confuse us with the facts! You know governments prefer classic mushroom theory- they grow mushrooms by keeping them in the dark and feeding them bullshit!

  • http://twitter.com/stephenfgordon Stephen Gordon

    Ah. You also get 18% at $9,999; they only have data for certain intervals, so the cumulative distribution is a step function.

    • Anonymous

      It would be ridiculous to create a tool that had a new range and different percentage for every single additional penny, or even had a range for each income percentage. 

  • Anonymous

    It’s a quantum calculator!  If you change from $9999 to $10000, your ranked percentage changes from “bottom 18%” to “bottom 28%”.  (I guess you really jump brackets in some histogram hidden behind the curtain, but I so want it to be a quantum calculator.)

    Congratulations!  You have reached energy state 4!  Your next energy state will be acheived at precisely $25,400.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t know why people are having such a hard time with this.  There is nothing untoward about your observation.  You have to define ranges for people to fall inside, and it would be absolutely ridiculous to define a new range and percentage for every single additional penny of income, or even every single percentage.  Think about it.

      • Anonymous

        I make descending cumulative graphs all the time.  It isn’t onerous to make such graphs with 10,000 (or more) points with modern computers.  Besides, I’m just being silly and havning a bit of fun.

        • Anonymous

          How about 30,000,000 data points?  If you could manage entering as may as 10 data points per minute, one every 6 seconds, it would only take you 6 years to enter the data (if you never slept).  If you choose to work 8 hours per day and it would take you only 18 years.

      • Anonymous

        I make descending cumulative graphs all the time.  It isn’t onerous to make such graphs with 10,000 (or more) points with modern computers.  Besides, I’m just being silly and havning a bit of fun.

  • read the whole thing

    Since it says “Note that percentiles refer to income brackets” , this isn’t too surprising. 

  • TonyAdams

    Wall St Journal ~ Protestors Present Dilemma For Dems:

    When Democrats talk about harnessing the anger and energy of the protesters, they hope the face of the movement will be people like Jason Dean: a clean-cut, bespectacled, 32-year-old freelance Web designer from Brooklyn, N.Y., who said he goes to Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park in his free time to join the demonstrators. “We need to get our country back on track ourselves because our politicians have totally failed us,” he said Monday.

    But across the country near Los Angeles City Hall was Melissa Balin. Dressed on Sunday in a camouflage bikini and tutu, Ms. Balin, a veteran of the marijuana-legalization movement, lay on the lawn while a graffiti artist painted a mural on her body that included the message “Prosecute Wall Street” and a green cannabis leaf ….

    The picture that emerged is a motley conglomeration of people with widely varying goals—and some with no clear-cut goals at all other than to denounce greed. The movement is centered on unemployed or underemployed college students and college dropouts whose refrain is that their American inheritance has been squandered and their prospects are bleak. But there also is a tolerance—and, sometimes, sympathy—for causes well outside of the mainstream.

    PJ O’Rourke ~ Eat The Rich:

    Economics is not zero sum. There is no fixed amount of wealth. That is, if you have too many slices of pizza, I don’t have to eat the box. Your money does not cause my poverty. Refusal to believe this is at the bottom of most bad economic thinking.

    True, at any given moment, there is only so much wealth to go around. But wealth is based on productivity. Without productivity, there wouldn’t be any economics, or any economic thinking, good or bad, or any pizza, or anything else. We would sit around and stare at rocks, and maybe later have some for dinner.

    • kcm2

      O’Rourke’s opinion has got zero to do with how progressive our tax system should be, which most definitely does effect how much pizza i can have.

      Much preferred Galbraith to O’Rourke myself.

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
      John Kenneth Galbraith

      • TonyAdams

        Quotes about Conservatives don’t bother me, I agree with most of them, because I am liberal without a home. 

        Virginia Postrel ~ Presidential Medal Of Ignorance:

        The U.S. government’s highest civilian award is the Presidential Medal of Freedom. It goes to people the President believes have made “especially meritorious contributions.” 

        Why, then, did President Clinton recently give this prestigious award to John Kenneth Galbraith? The official citation says it’s because Galbraith “has made complex economic theories and processes comprehensible to a wide audience and highlighted the social and ethical impacts of economic policies.”

        In fact, Galbraith has spent his career peddling nonsense. His work, long scoffed at by serious economists of all political stripes, has been utterly discredited by the experience of the past several decades.

        His influential 1967 book, The New Industrial State, declared that Western corporate managers and Soviet planners were doing basically the same thing: maintaining the economic certainty that large-scale investment requires. Market competition is dead, he said, killed by technology and large-scale development …

        • kcm2

          This is what i mean about providing links. [No dates. No context. Is it written entirely fron hindsights perspective - sounds like it to me.] Who for instance wrote that VP opinion of JKG? – Milton Friedman or Donald duck? It is impossible to have much of an opinion from an anonymous source. Suffice it to say the vast majority of  economists of his time would find that view ludicrous. Even if it had some validity you might easily say the same of Friedman’s work – pretty much discredited by recent experience. But that wouldn’t automatically discredit all of Friedman’s work anymore then it would Galbraiths.

  • Anonymous

    Too many people just want a fast track to riches without any effort or hard work.  They watch all these reality TV shows or YouTube videos and see afterwards how much money those people made and they want to emulate that.  Selling themselves, to them, seems to be the only way to get rich quick without any effort.  Personally for me being a nobody and yet still wealthy through hard work, smart spending, and savings suits me more than hoping 5 minutes of fame pays off a lifetimes worth of money.  How many of the protestors if offered a top 10% annual wage to dig ditches (or any tough job) would actually make it through the first full week?  I wonder?  No.  I know the answer and so do most of you.

    • kcm2

      Generalizations are often such a waste of time. You have no idea whether some of those students have been tree planters for instance – a very tough grind – have you?  Lots of young people that i know try and juggle two or three PT jobs – something my generation didn’t have to deal with – how bout you.

      • Anonymous

        In my 20′s only a few years ago absolutely did.  Stomped Jugs, landscaped, and handfuls of other jobs to pay the bills.  Worked hard and saved.  Paid off.  No complaints or excuses.

        • CR

          Yeah, I got mine too.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AV5QT4VHFCPW4SLQETTI4XZWUM Brad

          And so because you made it, everyone can? If it were that straightforward, everyone would be a millionaire.

    • hosertohoosier

      I think most of the people involved in these movements are angry about underemployment more than unemployment. Crappy joe jobs do not lead to good jobs. It is well-established that employers prefer recent graduates to people that graduated a while ago (assuming they have not been working in a relevant job). As a result people that graduate in the midst of a downturn face permanently lower wages and job prospects. 

      These folks aren’t asking to start at the top, all they want are entry level positions in a field where they can use the skills they developed in college (skills taxpayers paid thousands of dollars for – although people’s expectations of the value of a degree are over-inflated). 

      Admittedly, the folks protesting in the streets are probably not the people that have it worst (and thankfully Canada’s downturn was milder than elsewhere). The people hurt most badly by the recession are non-graduates who get displaced from jobs they would traditionally have as college students lower their expectations. But the reality is that everybody can’t just “get a job” – somebody is going to be left out in the cold. Nor is turning to graduate education en masse much of a solution – you will just get the same kind of credential inflation that we see now for a college degree.

      It is understandable that this may not be apparent to older, more established people. In the recession there were some layoffs, but the real hit came in the form of deferred hiring. What is more, older workers that were laid off still have years of experience, that can make them competitive as the economy recovers. Younger folks never got that chance.

      • kcm2

        Seems like we need a cultural change – stop denigrating or looking down on trades that involve getting your hands dirty. Parents are partially to blame for this, understandably so – who doesn’t want their kids to do better then they did? There are plenty of skilled jobs going unfilled in the trades, particularly in AB. 

        • hosertohoosier

          I’m sure there are jobs in Alberta, but I’m skeptical with regards to that argument generally. If you look at unemployment by education level (http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/employment/ei/reports/eimar_2010/annex/annex1_6.shtml), university graduates have a lower average unemployment rate than people in the trades (ie. college graduates). 

          There are also risks to working in the skilled trades (particularly those that pay well). You face a greater risk of having your job outsourced to the developing world, and/or your skills may become obsolete because the skillset you get as an apprentice or college student tends to be more specific. And if you are working in a field that is growing as a result of the resource boom, there is the added risk that commodity prices might collapse in the near future. 

          • Anonymous

            I don’t think the skilled trades are more at risk of outsourcing.  It’s easier to outsource things like software engineering, accounting, architecture, and anything else where the work can be easily transported – the so-called “knowledge” jobs.  Plumbing, construction, electricians, chefs, and so on, those jobs cannot be outsourced.
            Most outsourcing is white-collar knowledge jobs or unskilled trades like manufacturing.

      • Anonymous

        True that. But Canadians aren’t feeling the effects as severly for a variety reasons, especially our social safety net. But CRAP is working on that………..

      • Anonymous

        True that. But Canadians aren’t feeling the effects as severly for a variety reasons, especially our social safety net. But CRAP is working on that………..

      • Yanni

        It seems to me that the under-employed should be angry with their post-secondary institution than with wall street.

        It was the post secondary institution that refuses to reform itself so they learn marketable skills.  There is no reason English can’t be combined with marketing, public relations, data entry, or technical writing.

         It is the post-secondary institution that refuses to do a good job of placing their alumni so that underemployment isn’t a problem.

        It is the post-secondary institution that doesn’t require job hunting and job interview skills as part of their curriculum.

    • Anonymous

      Your mother must be very proud of you.

  • jayray

    Thank you for stating the situation in clear and simple language.  Harper stated that our situation was not the same as the USA but that is actually not true.  Our situation may not be quite as extreme as the American economy but is worsening at a faster rate.  Thank you MacLeans.

    • Snowfie

      I would even venture to say it’s worse. At least in the US, you know you are screwed. Here, we pretend there are social supports.

  • http://twitter.com/FancyLads FancyLad

    It’s odd, I’m living pretty much hand to mouth at only $48,600 per year; but this says I’m in the top 31.6%.

    Is this calculation based on people both in and out of the workforce?

    Something’s sketchy here.

    • hosertohoosier

      It isn’t sketchy? Median household income is about $68,000 – you almost make that on your own. Canada’s GDP per capita, is about $43,000 but that is skewed upwards by the super-rich (median wages are usually lower than average wages). By any metric, you earn more than most Canadians.

      Then again, if you live in a place with a high cost of living, like Vancouver, you may be worse off than somebody making $24,000 in a cheaper city.

      • http://twitter.com/FancyLads FancyLad

        Well I live in small-town Alberta, I rent an one bedroom apartment, the rent is $1150/mo which is average here, utilities (phone/electric/etc.) are about $350, car payment (used corolla) is $450/mo, life/car/apt insurance totals $260, leaving (after taxes) only $740 for food, clothing, charity, etc.
        I don’t drink, smoke, gamble, or chase tail but I’m barely making ends meet, and I’m in the top 31%? Half of Canadians must be eating dirt sandwiches in ghettos if $48,000 pops me above average.

      • http://twitter.com/FancyLads FancyLad

        Well I live in small-town Alberta, I rent an one bedroom apartment, the rent is $1150/mo which is average here, utilities (phone/electric/etc.) are about $350, car payment (used corolla) is $450/mo, life/car/apt insurance totals $260, leaving (after taxes) only $740 for food, clothing, charity, etc.
        I don’t drink, smoke, gamble, or chase tail but I’m barely making ends meet, and I’m in the top 31%? Half of Canadians must be eating dirt sandwiches in ghettos if $48,000 pops me above average.

        • C.Ryan

          …and now you know why there are so many frustrated individuals out there.

          Sure, some of the expenses that you’ve listed are discretionary (under certain circumstances), but we’re all definitely quite emotionally trussed up in expectations that we’ve both bought into ourselves and have been aggressively sold that it’s nearly impossible to see things any different way.

    • Anonymous

      It might have a lot to do with what you’re paying for housing.  $48K can go a long way in some places, not so much in others.

  • Guest

    This thing is complete bullshit.  It suggests that 40% or more earn less than 16k pre-tax.

    • Anonymous

      Does that reflect accurate data, though?  If so, it indicates a certain bullshit, certainly.

    • Anonymous

      Does that reflect accurate data, though?  If so, it indicates a certain bullshit, certainly.

  • red

    This would be more interesting if it was based on house hold income.

  • red

    This would be more interesting if it was based on house hold income.

  • RealityBetraysUs

    Anyway we could see a graphic chart that would show all possible incomes so users could visualize relationships like rich to poor, classes etc?

  • RealityBetraysUs

    Anyway we could see a graphic chart that would show all possible incomes so users could visualize relationships like rich to poor, classes etc?

  • Anonymous

    SO much anger and complaining about living in Canada. We are the most generous country in the world and Toronto best city to live. I guess saying something good doesn’t work.

    David Pylyp
    Living in Toronto and loving it!

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